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DSI Prophet 12
Old 3rd February 2013
  #781
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the donal's Avatar
 
🎧 10 years
All this Denmark this and Denmark that...

If I ever get a P12, I'm going to call it Viggo.
Old 3rd February 2013
  #782
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Reveirg's Avatar
 
1 Review written
🎧 10 years
Could any knowlegeable people elaborate on what exactly are the upsides of having those digital oscillators?

I've heard FM and AM thrown around, how does having digital oscillators change anything for those?

(and for that matter, what differentiates having specific FM and AM features, VS. assigning an LFO to Amplitude or Frequency?)
Old 3rd February 2013
  #783
Gear Guru
 
Yoozer's Avatar
 
1 Review written
🎧 10 years
For proper FM you need rock solid tuning stability and accurate pitch tracking so that makes digital generation eminently suitable.

LFOs usually do not go into audio rate - hence "low frequency oscillator".
Old 4th February 2013 | Show parent
  #784
Pym
Lives for gear
 
🎧 10 years
This is true, however ours do go well into audio rates (over 4kHz) so you could definitely use them to do FM/AM effects as well.

Plus, we now allow oscillators as modulation sources, so you can direct them to modulate other parameters. All the digital stuff can be modulated at full audio rates (>40kHz).

Add the fact that we're sampling the CVs for the analog portions of the instrument at over 11kHz and you can do some really, really crazy stuff. FM the cutoff of the HP and LP using an oscillator, the distortion (which changes the character of the distortion in very odd subtle ways), the panning or the VCA response. We've barely touched the surface of what we can do with the presets we demonstrated at NAMM.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Yoozer ➡️
LFOs usually do not go into audio rate - hence "low frequency oscillator".
Old 4th February 2013 | Show parent
  #785
Moderator
 
golden beers's Avatar
 
2 Reviews written
🎧 10 years
oh man if it hasn't got oscillator FM.. that's a deal breaker for me. i thought it did?

was getting ready to buy my first synth in 10 years. say it aint so!!!!!
Old 4th February 2013 | Show parent
  #786
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golden beers's Avatar
 
2 Reviews written
🎧 10 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by Pym ➡️
This is true, however ours do go well into audio rates (over 4kHz) so you could definitely use them to do FM/AM effects as well.

Plus, we now allow oscillators as modulation sources, so you can direct them to modulate other parameters. All the digital stuff can be modulated at full audio rates (>40kHz).

Add the fact that we're sampling the CVs for the analog portions of the instrument at over 11kHz and you can do some really, really crazy stuff. FM the cutoff of the HP and LP using an oscillator, the distortion (which changes the character of the distortion in very odd subtle ways), the panning or the VCA response. We've barely touched the surface of what we can do with the presets we demonstrated at NAMM.
can you use an oscillator to modulate an oscillator?

not talking filter.. not talking LFO in audio rate... osc to osc. can you do that Y/N?
Old 4th February 2013 | Show parent
  #787
Pym
Lives for gear
 
🎧 10 years
Yes, of course. The FM/AM knobs change FM/AM in the order indicated on the front panel: sort of a circular thing where Osc 2 modulates Osc 1, Osc 3 modulates Osc 2... so you have 4 dedicated paths. Plus you have the 16 mod slots where you can route the oscillators to mod whatever you'd like

Quote:
Originally Posted by golden beers ➡️
can you use an oscillator to modulate an oscillator?

not talking filter.. not talking LFO in audio rate... osc to osc. can you do that Y/N?
Old 4th February 2013 | Show parent
  #788
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golden beers's Avatar
 
2 Reviews written
🎧 10 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by Pym ➡️
Yes, of course. The FM/AM knobs change FM/AM in the order indicated on the front panel: sort of a circular thing where Osc 2 modulates Osc 1, Osc 3 modulates Osc 2... so you have 4 dedicated paths. Plus you have the 16 mod slots where you can route the oscillators to mod whatever you'd like
sweet. clusterchord's post threw me a little! i was all like

but now i'm all again
Old 4th February 2013
  #789
Here for the gear
 
🎧 5 years
Pym, any chance of being able to control, in every patch, how midi will be sent out? e.g. Sending Midi from split A but no midi from split B. I'd love to be able to stack the high/low end with an external source.

***edited***

Also! When split it would be amazing to be able to control the octaves of each split individually. I'd love to be able to play weird arps in the same octave... or play hugely different octaves... or to at dueling bass parts or dueling leads. That would be seriously great.

Last edited by thefilthyrich; 4th February 2013 at 06:29 AM.. Reason: New Idea!
Old 4th February 2013 | Show parent
  #790
Gear Maniac
 
🎧 5 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by charles chocula ➡️
well my goodness... after reading this entire thread, i'm really not sure why Dave Smith didn't stop the presses and consult with all the geniuses who were never even going to buy anything he made anyway and just throw this piece of junk away and build the GRP Andromeheim Ultra-Envelopia... and since we're crowd sourcing from EVERYONE and (quite like most of you, i'm sure...) i personally consider myself a genius manufacturer/engineer businessman scientist with deep skills in all things Madison Avenue, i propose he call it the charles chocula Rasputin?!?!

clearly the man has no future / no past.!
yes szir you is on the moneys
Old 4th February 2013 | Show parent
  #791
Deleted 46dc28f
Guest
All digital OSCs

DSI finally add an HPF to their flagship poly, then leave out the analog OSCs. How dissapointing.

...Thanks for saving me $3000., Dave!
Old 4th February 2013
  #792
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BTByrd's Avatar
 
🎧 10 years
Digital oscillators are sexy.
Old 4th February 2013 | Show parent
  #793
Deleted 46dc28f
Guest
Quote:
Originally Posted by BTByrd ➡️
Digital oscillators are sexy.
In the right context. I have all the digital OSCs I could ever wish for in the FS1R, K5000R and Microwave XT.
Old 4th February 2013 | Show parent
  #794
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exwel's Avatar
 
🎧 10 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by Deleted 46dc28f ➡️
In the right context. I have all the digital OSCs I could ever wish for in the FS1R, K5000R and Microwave XT.




It has analoge Filter and Vca.
That sounds massive diffirent then a synth what is 100% digital.
I have a Waldorf Q+ with analogue filters and the diffrent between analogue and digital filters is day and night.
Old 4th February 2013 | Show parent
  #795
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Don Solaris's Avatar
 
4 Reviews written
🎧 10 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by golden beers ➡️
but now i'm all again
It's on my to-buy list.

I hope i earn enough cash.
Old 4th February 2013 | Show parent
  #796
Deleted 46dc28f
Guest
Quote:
Originally Posted by exwel ➡️



It has analoge Filter and Vca.
That sounds massive diffirent then a synth what is 100% digital.
I have a Waldorf Q+ with analogue filters and the diffrent between analogue and digital filters is day and night.
I couldn't care less about the lack of analog filter or vca on the pure digital synths I've mentioned.

DSI have been hinting at an updated Prophet 08 with HPF for years. They've managed to come up with one, only now it lacks analog OSCs, and they want 3K for it. I guess they needed to keep it mediocre so it could live up to the DSI Prophet name.

If I'm going to spend 3K on a new digital, I'll spend a little more and get a Solaris.
Old 4th February 2013 | Show parent
  #797
Lives for gear
 
🎧 10 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by exwel ➡️



It has analoge Filter and Vca.
That sounds massive diffirent then a synth what is 100% digital.
I have a Waldorf Q+ with analogue filters and the diffrent between analogue and digital filters is day and night.
Again, highly depends on which analog filter you're talking about, and which digital filter you're talking about.
Having had a P08 and PEK in the past, i can tell you that to me (only my subjective opinion of course) the curtis lowpass is a weak filter when i compare it to other analog filters (wether lowpass or svf or whatever) such as moog, the ob filter on the sem pro, vermona, grp, even the minibrute's filter etc. Of course they are all different also because these are different flavours of analog filters - but flavour or not, the curtis sounds weak to me, and its response is sort of meh.
So the fact that a filter is analog doesn't automatically makes it a good one.
And on the other side - i take the Solaris' filters which are purely digital, and to my ears they are stronger than the curtis lowpass (if you insist - than when compared head to head just with the different 24db type lowpass filters on the solaris).
All this is based, of course, on my subjective experience with past dsi synths i owned, the current analog i have (vermona & grp) and the digital solaris.
Old 4th February 2013 | Show parent
  #798
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verve92's Avatar
 
🎧 10 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by e6400ultra ➡️
I couldn't care less about the lack of analog filter or vca on the pure digital synths I've mentioned.

DSI have been hinting at an updated Prophet 08 with HPF for years. They've managed to come up with one, only now it lacks analog OSCs, and they want 3K for it. I guess they needed to keep it mediocre so it could live up to the DSI Prophet name.
I was surprised at the digi osc also, but as he always does Dave explains it well here.


To dismiss a synth for one aspect to me is dangerous in that you could miss out. To label it mediocre without hearing it is foolish.
This is a MONSTER that it is out of my price range, but would get one if I could.
It's not like its an all digital ROMpler. The analog filters and VCA should add character to what I am sure are the best digital osc out there.
Plus if it has Don Solaris' blessing (unless he is being sarcastic, which he can be), it must be good!
Then again, I am a DSI guy so maybe I'm biased. But the early demos of this thing are in another universe!
Old 4th February 2013 | Show parent
  #799
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maisonvague's Avatar
 
🎧 10 years
Just found a photo on the web with a closeup of the panel. It looks like it does use that classic font for the name "Prophet" after all!

OK. Decision made. I'm getting this.
Old 4th February 2013
  #800
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SonicBern's Avatar
 
🎧 10 years
http://createdigitalmusic.com/files/2013/01/P12-top.jpg

Posting enlarged pic again ;-)
Old 4th February 2013 | Show parent
  #801
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synthguy's Avatar
 
🎧 10 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by maisonvague ➡️
Just found a photo on the web with a closeup of the panel. It looks like it does use that classic font for the name "Prophet" after all!

OK. Decision made. I'm getting this.
You're such an easily led market lemming.

But seriously, I'm curious as to what persuaded you to change your mind on this beast. A YouTube sound example? Dave Smith explaining the modular-ability of the thing? In my case, it's the dual filters and the modular-ability deal. Very few synths have those fully settable dual filters outside of VAs, or the ability to do so much modulation wise. Plus the fact that it sounds distinctly different from everything else. I'm thinking that most patches will use three OSCs max, but the occasional full blown pipe organesque patch with everything is inevitable. heh
Old 4th February 2013 | Show parent
  #802
Lives for gear
 
maisonvague's Avatar
 
🎧 10 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by synthguy ➡️
You're such an easily led market lemming.

But seriously, I'm curious as to what persuaded you to change your mind on this beast. A YouTube sound example? Dave Smith explaining the modular-ability of the thing?


Why, the font, of course! (It was a joke, man). I couldn't afford a P-12 right now, anyway. I've already blown more than half the money I had budgeted for gear this year and it's only February.

I will say this, though: there's currently an opening on the top level of my P-10's keyboard stand. Together they would make...

... a Prophet-22!

Old 4th February 2013
  #803
Lives for gear
 
2 Reviews written
🎧 10 years
Can we expect any more demos from DSI anytime soon? I realize that it's months from release and not complete but...I have a lot of **** to sell and want to stay motivated :-D
Old 4th February 2013
  #804
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hogberto's Avatar
 
🎧 10 years
the UK price of this baby is creeping up already.

started at about £1,899.

now at £2,025.

Dave Smith Instruments Prophet 12 Analogue Synthesizer | DV247

any takers for £2,250 by the time it hits the shops?
Old 4th February 2013
  #805
Lives for gear
 
🎧 5 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by hogberto ➡️
the UK price of this baby is creeping up already.

started at about £1,899.

now at £2,025.

Dave Smith Instruments Prophet 12 Analogue Synthesizer | DV247

any takers for £2,250 by the time it hits the shops?
The distance people will go to get ripped off. DSI hasn't released an instrument in the past decade that couldn't be had for less than msrp on eBay. This will be the same even though people think this is the greatest synth ever. Give it till December and p12s on eBay for 2-2.5k. In two years even less.

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SGH-I777
Old 4th February 2013
  #806
Deleted 0fc8128
Guest
Quote:
Originally Posted by slick easy ➡️
The distance people will go to get ripped off. DSI hasn't released an instrument in the past decade that couldn't be had for less than msrp on eBay. This will be the same even though people think this is the greatest synth ever. Give it till December and p12s on eBay for 2-2.5k. In two years even less.
Same things were said about the MiniBrute too. And until now, they are hard to come by.

I wait until the final feature set is there and will give it a try. Digital oscillators are not the deal breaker, it depends if they really improved the filter for me.
Old 4th February 2013 | Show parent
  #807
Lives for gear
 
🎧 10 years
Thing is in the U.K. we pay 19% VAT... in the U.S. it's a lot lower, Add to that shipping from U.S. so i expect the 12 to be in the same region as a new polyevolver .... about £2000 -£2300 when they become available. I noticed DV247 had them on at £1900 (which for the U.K. was a very good price). Maybe DV tie they're prices in with the £/$ exchange rate ?
Old 4th February 2013 | Show parent
  #808
Lives for gear
 
charles chocula's Avatar
 
2 Reviews written
🎧 10 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by slick easy ➡️
ripped off.

Sent from a charlatan using Tapatroll
shocked, simply shocked that that dave smith isn't in prison right this very minute... and you're absolutely correct, it's a major mystery why Pym isn't in ye olde standard issue striped jumpsuit...

so glad you've brought attention to such a perversion of all that is right and wrong in this world- i have zero doubt you have an MBA, but if by some minor miracle you don't, get thee to Harvard Business School ASAP and accept your position as faculty toute de suite!
Old 4th February 2013
  #809
Lives for gear
 
🎧 5 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by raffor ➡️
Same things were said about the MiniBrute too. And until now, they are hard to come by.

I wait until the final feature set is there and will give it a try. Digital oscillators are not the deal breaker, it depends if they really improved the filter for me.
I am not doubting that the p12 will sell well and possibly be out of stock soon after release like the minibrute or analog four but like these two synths mentioned, the p12 will match demand and prices will fall on the used market. Its not going to be vintage or boutique gear that is hard to get a hold of. DSI has all infrastructure to make these at a fast clip just like all his other synths, eBay is littered with them.

I'm also not so sure this synth is really worth paying more than its quoted price. Its not bringing in any new synth architecture just bundling a lot of great things together. This isn't a put down, its just important point out that you wont be able to make any novel timbre that you couldn't make with other tools. Hypothetically, if it could then paying a premium to be an early adopter would be worth it. Alas, the tempest has taught us that those who get sucked into the hype and buy early end up getting burned. But people can do as they please and if a person is a type who spends 3x on an ipad because he can't wait for it to be in stock then more power to him and his fat wallet.

And, because you asked, Mr. Smith said they have the same Curtis lp filters as the prophet 08.


Sent from my SAMSUNG-SGH-I777
Old 4th February 2013 | Show parent
  #810
Lives for gear
 
🎧 10 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by maisonvague ➡️
I'm not familiar with their synths, but I definitely like the designs of some of their granular effects processors -- especially this one:



Glad you brought this up. You said you're not familiar with their synths.
Well, for your general knowledge - this became a synth a couple of days ago, when the guy who makes them released yet another update - and now it has oscilators. Interesting ones, i should add.
He also updated the LFO's, and now there are 10(!!) lfo's on this babe. As he specified:
Quote:
The LFO's morphs from triangle to saw to square to pulse, and then goes over in some unlinear waveforms, that is great for high speed modulation, and at last they go to random. Max rate are around 1 KHz.
Just goes to show that:
1) It's amazing that some folks like him keep new updates coming, every few weeks, and for free.

2) In the digital world - there are far more innovative and unique features. (Considering that the P12's lfo's are software or digital, and that the oscilators are digital).

I keep bumping into examples of digital oscilators that have great features and interesting waveshapes. Forget about an expensive synth like the solaris. Take a 300 euro Shruthi-1 by Mutable instruments. The digital oscilators offer the usuall shapes, along with some strange ones, along with wavetables, vocal vowels, and lots more (and let's not forget that at the end - the shruthi-1 has an analog filter of your choice, and also a step sequencer). Or think about what the waldorf blofeld gives you for digital oscilators.
Or even the friggin' novation ultranova (699$) . Its digital oscilators offer:
•Square, sine, tri, sawtooth, pulse, 9x saw:pulse combinations.
•20x digital waveforms
•36x wavetables
Not to mention 20 modulation slots per patch, 6 envelopes etc.

One would think that with 6 dsp chips, all concentrated on the oscilators and modulations, there'll be some more interesting stuff - and not just several different features for trashing down the sound with different names.
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