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DSI Prophet 12
Old 26th January 2013
  #511
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djshire's Avatar
 
🎧 10 years
The thread merge seriously messed up the joke....and now makes some of us look very strange and evil.
Old 26th January 2013
  #512
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🎧 10 years
Supersaw. Hopefully there's a button that disables it and then sends you back in time to kill whoever invented the supersaw.
Old 26th January 2013 | Show parent
  #513
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djshire's Avatar
 
🎧 10 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by networkacid ➑️
Supersaw. Hopefully there's a button that disables it and then sends you back in time to kill whoever invented the supersaw.
but then how will we make the trance?
Old 26th January 2013 | Show parent
  #514
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ttown23's Avatar
 
2 Reviews written
🎧 10 years
Yep, just saw it yesterday at NAMM and my friend Matia did programmed the patches for it

It's sweet!!!
Old 27th January 2013 | Show parent
  #515
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clusterchord's Avatar
 
🎧 15 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by Pym ➑️
I agree. The beauty of this is, it's easy to put aliasing back in by removing some of the cleaning up we've done... but it's really difficult to clean them up if it's aliasing. Thus, we focused on the hard part first to make sure we could do it well and will be adding some additional character to the oscillators as we continue tweaking towards the final product

You have 4 wavetable sources (I'm fairly sure we'll stick with 4, but we may change that) with 3 wavetables per source... so a total of 12 possible waveforms that can sweep through smoothly in sets of 3

hi Pym, first of all thanks for the info "straight from the lion's mouth" i am really glad you made a hybrid, with classic hybrid signal flow: digital oscillators and mod sources -> filters -> VCAs, never to return to another ADDA phase. in tradition of VS, EII, ESQ, PPG, and others.



if i may, i have question about wavetables and posibilities for scanning thru them via various modulation sources (i.e. lfos, envs etc)...

when you say it has "4 wavetable sources" do you mean each oscillator can morph btwn three single-cycle digital waves... (and you define a "wavetable" like a bank/storage out of which these three are chosen from), in Prophet VS tradition..

or,

do you mean that you can select a "wavetable" per oscillator, in traditional German hybrids sense (ppg/waldorf) where each one is a set of 64 single cycle waves... and you can scan thru all 64 within the table with a modulation source of choice..?


also, what analog circuit is used for the analog highpass (OTA etc) and what is its slope (dB/Oct.) ?


thanks

regards
Tom
Old 27th January 2013
  #516
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BTByrd's Avatar
 
🎧 10 years
Good questions Tom. I'm keeping my fingers crossed for German style wavetables.
Old 27th January 2013
  #517
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🎧 10 years
This does look like the most appealing DSI product for a while, but I wonder how it stacks up to the Mutable Instruments Ambika? The P12 has a better interface but Olivier has a great choice of filters for his synths. My Shruthi has a far more pleasant 'tone' to my ears than the Evolver I sold.
Old 27th January 2013 | Show parent
  #518
Moderator
 
Don Solaris's Avatar
 
4 Reviews written
🎧 10 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by Pym ➑️
I agree. The beauty of this is, it's easy to put aliasing back in by removing some of the cleaning up we've done...
Speaking of waveforms processing, would it be possible to add an option in the menu that would enable/disable interpolation?

I understand that good interpolation is popular these days, but to be honest, every synth released today gives us that already. In hybrid design, the real magic happens once the non interpolated harsh waveform enters the analogue VCF and VCA stage. And i'm sure every synth maniac will confirm my statement.

This is for example what gives the signature sound of the Prophet VS. Even its sine wave can sweep the filter, which speaks for itself about its raw and harsh nature. Not many polyphonic products on the market give us low interpolation waveforms, and we can name exiting ones on the fingers of one hand. So, an option in the menu to enable/disable would be awesome!

One more question: Are there any plans to include the original Prophet VS digital waveforms? That would take just 16,5k bytes of ROM memory.

And (just) one more: are the LFO's free running?
Old 27th January 2013 | Show parent
  #519
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Mefistophelees's Avatar
 
🎧 5 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by Don Solaris ➑️
Speaking of waveforms processing, would it be possible to add an option in the menu that would enable/disable interpolation?

I understand that good interpolation is popular these days, but to be honest, every synth released today gives us that already. In hybrid design, the real magic happens once the non interpolated harsh waveform enters the analogue VCF and VCA stage.
Have you tried the Tempest as a synth? I think you'll like it.

People normally complain about the VS waves in the Tempest being harsh, personally I like the 80s crunchiness. Played at a low rate the VS waves can sound quite PPG-esq at times.
Old 27th January 2013 | Show parent
  #520
Deleted 0fc8128
Guest
Quote:
Originally Posted by Don Solaris ➑️
Speaking of waveforms processing, would it be possible to add an option in the menu that would enable/disable interpolation?
...
This is for example what gives the signature sound of the Prophet VS. Even its sine wave can sweep the filter, which speaks for itself about its raw and harsh nature. Not many polyphonic products on the market give us low interpolation waveforms, and we can name exiting ones on the fingers of one hand. So, an option in the menu to enable/disable would be awesome!
+1. Give us 8 bit waveforms back with all the dirt and a good analog filter and amplifier section. Voila!!! I would buy that in a heartbeat.
Old 27th January 2013 | Show parent
  #521
Pym
Lives for gear
 
🎧 10 years
I think we can disable interpolation, but we need to see how it sounds first. We're trying to move away from the waveform synths of the past and do something different, so at the moment we have no plans to add the VS waves.

However we are talking about some additional options to add digital processing (possibly of multiple types) on each oscillator to add the gritty character that, I agree, is missing from the clean sound the synth has right now. This would give you the old character but with even more control and variation since we have the clean waves as the source. Maybe bit and sample reduction like we're doing in the character section, or a couple other ideas I have up my sleeve... got a few months to figure out the details still.

The LFOs are indeed free running, as are the oscillators. There is a flag to reset the LFOs and oscillators on each new note that you can enable/disable on each if you want more consistent attacks.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Don Solaris ➑️
Speaking of waveforms processing, would it be possible to add an option in the menu that would enable/disable interpolation?

I understand that good interpolation is popular these days, but to be honest, every synth released today gives us that already. In hybrid design, the real magic happens once the non interpolated harsh waveform enters the analogue VCF and VCA stage. And i'm sure every synth maniac will confirm my statement.

This is for example what gives the signature sound of the Prophet VS. Even its sine wave can sweep the filter, which speaks for itself about its raw and harsh nature. Not many polyphonic products on the market give us low interpolation waveforms, and we can name exiting ones on the fingers of one hand. So, an option in the menu to enable/disable would be awesome!

One more question: Are there any plans to include the original Prophet VS digital waveforms? That would take just 16,5k bytes of ROM memory.

And (just) one more: are the LFO's free running?
Old 27th January 2013 | Show parent
  #522
Lives for gear
 
🎧 10 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by Deleted 0fc8128 ➑️
+1. Give us 8 bit waveforms back with all the dirt and a good analog filter and amplifier section. Voila!!! I would buy that in a heartbeat.
Old 27th January 2013 | Show parent
  #523
Pym
Lives for gear
 
🎧 10 years
As I mentioned above, we're trying to move away from the old style of wavetable synthesis and are doing something different than the classics. We're doing the first style you mention; Each wavetable can blend into two other waveforms depending on the direction you turn the shapemod knob. This gives extremely clean modulation between different waveforms. The final behavior hasn't been set yet, so I don't know whether we'll allow the user to pick which waveforms or not. It's more of a UI issue than anything else.

There are so many modulation options for the waveforms you'll have a lot of options you didn't have before to change the waveform on the fly... FM, AM, sync, slop, shape mod... and you can modulate your modulator to make it even more nuts. And of course it's always possible we'll add some more later with software updates.

The highpass filter is similar to the Tempest, but with resonance: 12dB/Oct 2 pole filter

Quote:
Originally Posted by clusterchord ➑️
hi Pym, first of all thanks for the info "straight from the lion's mouth" i am really glad you made a hybrid, with classic hybrid signal flow: digital oscillators and mod sources -> filters -> VCAs, never to return to another ADDA phase. in tradition of VS, EII, ESQ, PPG, and others.



if i may, i have question about wavetables and posibilities for scanning thru them via various modulation sources (i.e. lfos, envs etc)...

when you say it has "4 wavetable sources" do you mean each oscillator can morph btwn three single-cycle digital waves... (and you define a "wavetable" like a bank/storage out of which these three are chosen from), in Prophet VS tradition..

or,

do you mean that you can select a "wavetable" per oscillator, in traditional German hybrids sense (ppg/waldorf) where each one is a set of 64 single cycle waves... and you can scan thru all 64 within the table with a modulation source of choice..?


also, what analog circuit is used for the analog highpass (OTA etc) and what is its slope (dB/Oct.) ?


thanks

regards
Tom
Old 27th January 2013 | Show parent
  #524
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BTByrd's Avatar
 
🎧 10 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by Don Solaris ➑️
Speaking of waveforms processing, would it be possible to add an option in the menu that would enable/disable interpolation? I understand that good interpolation is popular these days, but to be honest, every synth released today gives us that already. In hybrid design, the real magic happens once the non interpolated harsh waveform enters the analogue VCF and VCA stage. And i'm sure every synth maniac will confirm my statement. ....

One more question: Are there any plans to include the original Prophet VS digital waveforms? That would take just 16,5k bytes of ROM memory.

And (just) one more: are the LFO's free running?
As a synth maniac, I'd like to confirm Don's statement about interpolation. One of the best aspects about the Piston Honda is that you can adjust (or turn off) interpolation between waves. (You can also do this with the E350, but you have to either adjust jumpers or make a breakout panel.) It'd be nice to have this option on the P12. You can also get Prophet VS waves for the Piston Honda.

It'd also be nice to have an option for the LFOs to be free running or be key synced. I'm also a fan of being able to delay the onset of the LFO (I never thought this might be useful until I got the Sunsyn).

Edit: Thanks for the update Pym!
Old 27th January 2013 | Show parent
  #525
Gear Head
 
Rocksitter's Avatar
 
🎧 5 years
it's always possible we'll add some more later with software updates.
Old 27th January 2013 | Show parent
  #526
Gear Addict
 
🎧 10 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by Pym ➑️
the gritty character that, I agree, is missing from the clean sound the synth has right now. This would give you the old character but with even more control and variation
I have to say I've loved some of the mixture of smoothness, bottom-end punch and width I've heard in some of the patches. Hopefully that will be equally easy to call up with the new stages added.
Old 27th January 2013
  #527
Lives for gear
 
🎧 10 years
I would assume the decimate function would work as a bit crusher to simulate the 8-bit waves of old, no? Or is it literal and removes 90% of the waveform? :P
Old 27th January 2013 | Show parent
  #528
Lives for gear
 
🎧 10 years
"Decimation" is sample rate reduction, "hack" bit reduction. But there's no hope to get the real deal by doing it trivially in the digital domain, the charm happens at the d->a stage and after its analog reconstruction filter...

So far we know that the design is totally different from the ppg or prophet-vs, both used variable sample rate designs in which aliased partials keep an harmonic relationship with the fundamental, which is responsible for their charm, both in the high and the low registers.
The anti-aliasing scheme used by dsi relies on memory ressources (like on the korg dw-8000), that is : depending on the oscillator's frequency the phase accumulator will read a different, more or less bandlimited version of the selected waveform.
The current wavetable functionality (a 3 stages crossfade between 3 waveforms) is basically what the keytek cts-2000 offered, in 1987...
Old 27th January 2013
  #529
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teceem's Avatar
 
🎧 5 years
I love my Evolver! I'd love to buy this one.

Something I made yesterday; 50% Evolver:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3ne9P8Ih2BY



https://soundcloud.com/tt_cc
Old 27th January 2013
  #530
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cramseur's Avatar
 
🎧 15 years
Cool, so DSI made theis own version of the Radikal Accelerator?

added some voices, removed the sequencer, changed the filters to analog, and removed the stupid "shaking" lfo.



http://www.radikaltechnologies.com/d...press_2011.pdf
Old 27th January 2013
  #531
Lives for gear
 
🎧 10 years
To me, the oscillator description sounds very similar to a Cyclebox...
Old 27th January 2013 | Show parent
  #532
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Dirty Halo's Avatar
 
🎧 15 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by cramseur ➑️
Cool, so DSI made theis own version of the Radikal Accelerator?

added some voices, removed the sequencer, changed the filters to analog, and removed the stupid "shaking" lfo.



http://www.radikaltechnologies.com/d...press_2011.pdf

Yeah, and every other synth company on the planet has made their version of a Moog, changed some filters, tweaked some features and voila!
Old 27th January 2013
  #533
Old 27th January 2013 | Show parent
  #534
ozy
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ozy's Avatar
 
🎧 5 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by cramseur ➑️
added some voices, changed the filters to analog,
minor changes indeed.

With a bit of such "tweaking" I could turn my Toyota into a Boeing787 (upon further consideration: which is the most dangerous? )
Old 27th January 2013 | Show parent
  #535
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cramseur's Avatar
 
🎧 15 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dirty Halo ➑️
Yeah, and every other synth company on the planet has made their version of a Moog, changed some filters, tweaked some features and voila!
Quote:
Originally Posted by ozy ➑️
minor changes indeed.

With a bit of such "tweaking" I could turn my Toyota into a Boeing787 (upon further consideration: which is the most dangerous? )
I don't understand.

This new Prophet compared to the Radikal is not really a Toyota vs a Boeing 787, is it?. The Radikal sounds just as large in it's demos as the Prophet (granted it's a limited small sample size).
And obviously, it costs less. It is less synth in a similar vein.

Why so dismissive?

Did the sounds of the Radikal filters really sound that bad to you guys, compared to the Prophet?

It didn't to me, but that's just through youtube videos.

I will say this though, I'm not a fan of Radikal's customer service.
So don't count me in among the Radikal fanbois. They flat out stink.
But their filters sound really good to me.
Old 27th January 2013 | Show parent
  #536
Moderator
 
Don Solaris's Avatar
 
4 Reviews written
🎧 10 years
Just realized bit reducer is prior to the filter. Damn! I'm getting this thing 100%! 8 bit wave thru analog resonant low pass = killer sound! Just ask any Emulator II owner.

(I must have confused it with King Korg where they placed it on the end of the signal chain. So i wasn't sure about bit reducer...)
Old 27th January 2013 | Show parent
  #537
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SonicBern's Avatar
 
🎧 10 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by Don Solaris ➑️
Just realized bit reducer is prior to the filter. Damn! I'm getting this thing 100%! 8 bit wave thru analog resonant low pass = killer sound! Just ask any Emulator II owner.

(I must have confused it with King Korg where they placed it on the end of the signal chain. So i wasn't sure about bit reducer...)

Here is a nice big pic:

http://createdigitalmusic.com/files/2013/01/P12-top.jpg

Add some soft clipping drive and that should add some texture too
Old 27th January 2013
  #538
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LiveFromKyoto's Avatar
 
🎧 10 years
Forgive me if this has been posted already, didn't see it. This is Sonic State interviewing Dave Smith. Most of the same info, though he does talk about sweepable wavetables a bit:

Old 27th January 2013
  #539
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synthguy's Avatar
 
🎧 10 years
I really REALLY wish Dave didn't feel like almost EVERY freaking patch needed two cranks of distortion. What is he, a closet metal head?
Old 28th January 2013
  #540
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hogberto's Avatar
 
🎧 10 years
i think he thinks that that's what the customer wants these days.
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