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DSI Prophet 12
Old 26th January 2013
  #451
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🎧 10 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by ionian ➑️
You'd think Dave Smith would get a discount after inventing MIDI. That's gratitude for ya....



Sent from my PRO-ONE using knobs.
LMAO!!!!!!!!
Old 26th January 2013 | Show parent
  #452
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🎧 10 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by cuckoo.old ➑️
I like the fact that DSI aren't scared to innovate.

4 digital oscillators with analog filters combined with the thought processes that gave us the P08, the MEK, and the Tempest is a synthesis itself that seems to have paid off nicely. Not a bland VA, nor a straight down the line 2 osc analogue; unlike some other manufacturers, DSI will certainly listen to their user base, but at the same time, they're not compelled to obey (and reproduce the same instrument again and again like an AC/DC album).


IMO Dave Smith Instruments straddle the border between the big 3, and the smaller more boutique companies. DSI appear to be a larger company than many of its competitors, but from what I've seen they have a reputation as an organisation that listens to its customers and seem to have some sort of ethics. Whereas communication with the big 3 is formal by nature, DSI retain a small town feel in a growing city.

Oh, they also produce kick-ass instruments!
I like the fact that Dave is always "in his lab", making something new.
But this time i'm sort of 50\50 about this one.
For one - it sounds distinctivly dsi-ish (naturally... )
I.e. very dry\harsh, and not on the creamy\juicy or that sort of direction, which is fine.

But differently from the PolyEvolver - this is even more radically hybrid. And here comes the thing that bothers me a bit. It's a matter of perception.
You could see it as "the best of both worlds".
Or
You could see it as nither. Meaning, if you make an imaginary scale where you put something like the Tom Oberheim Son Of Four Voice on the far analog side, and something like the Bowen Solaris on the far opposite digital side - i guess the Prophet 12 is somewhere in the middle. But in the middle in the sense it doesn't have powerful analog filters like Oberheim, moog, macbeth, vermona etc. On the other hand - its digital oscilators don't really give you "infinite possibilities". Apart from the classic waveshapes, there are only 4 wavetables, and each wavetable has only 3 wave to scan thru.

So as opposed to "the best of both worlds", it kinda looks to me like a sort of compromise of both worlds. And i understand it completely. You can't have it all for 3k.
It's also a bit of a shame he gave up on the prophet vs waveshapes and the sequencer. That means you can't do wave sequencing like on the Polyevolver, or assign the sequencer to other parameters, or advance thru the steps by each new key you press.
Old 26th January 2013
  #453
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synthguy's Avatar
 
🎧 10 years
A couple of things on zahush's post above.

I have no doubt that the Prophet 12 has some tricks up its hybrid sleeves yet to be unveiled.

I also have no doubt that I can program tons of tasty patches with it which would be plenty powerful and/or creamy.

Besides, it's about time something a little different came along. This is a synth that isn't trying to be anything but itself, and doesn't really sound as much like a bigger P08 than I thought it would. It's nicely ubiquitous, while still having a Dave Smith signature. I think it has the potential to be what you make of it, and that's pretty special these days. You know, if you have a Triton or Motif, it might sound like my Triton or Motif. But two people who own a P12 and compare, I would expect to be pretty different.
Old 26th January 2013
  #454
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🎧 5 years
Wow, it sounds great. Out of my price range, but this is definitely looking like the year analog synths really make a comeback with truly great sounding synths. Not just hyped because they are analog, but truly sound great.
Old 26th January 2013
  #455
Gear Addict
 
🎧 10 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by zahush76 ➑️
On the other hand - its digital oscilators don't really give you "infinite possibilities". Apart from the classic waveshapes, there are only 4 wavetables, and each wavetable has only 3 wave to scan thru.
Where did you get that information?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Boddhisattva007 ➑️
Where did you get that information?
Never mind I just read Pyms original post.
Old 26th January 2013 | Show parent
  #456
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Looping Loddar's Avatar
 
🎧 5 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by nightfur ➑️
[*]4 Oscillators per voice capable of classic and complex waveforms[list][*]Low alias digital oscillators of several flavors: tri, saw, pulse, sine, noise and 4 wavetable based sources
Are all of the oscillators digital? Or does this mean DCO analog oscillators
They are digital Oscillators, but they behave like DCO analog (or even better). The signal path is analog. The Oscillators (4 + 4 sub) are a strong part of the Prophet 12, indeed. Another strong part is the much improved VCF.
Old 26th January 2013 | Show parent
  #457
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Carey M's Avatar
 
🎧 10 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by Looping Loddar ➑️
Another strong part is the much improved VCF.
You mean improved besides adding a HPF? Can you elaborate on that?
Old 26th January 2013
  #458
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synthguy's Avatar
 
🎧 10 years
Just for a quickie reply before Pym or someone makes a definitive statement, Dave has kind of waffled on the filters a few times. Once he said they were pretty much the P08 filters, another time he said they were similar but tweaked a bit, something to that effect. Something does sound a little different about the P12 which seems to be more than just from the highpass filter.
Old 26th January 2013
  #459
Lives for gear
 
🎧 10 years
Actually, what Pym said is that they tweaked the curtis lowpass and extended the range in 1 octave, so it can open more fully and sound brighter than the curtis on the prophet\evolver line.

Quote:
Originally Posted by synthguy ➑️
I have no doubt that the Prophet 12 has some tricks up its hybrid sleeves yet to be unveiled.
That's always true for dsi synths. Specially the PolyEvolver, and now this. Even if they don't have the strongest basic sound (oscilators and filters) - i love their complexity. Working with 4 lfo's than can be synced was always a joy, the triple delay on the PEK was awsome, and on the whole it was an interesting instrument. The Prophet 12 looks like it's in the same direction.


Quote:
I also have no doubt that I can program tons of tasty patches with it which would be plenty powerful and/or creamy.
Powerful - probably.
Creamy - not likely.
It's just the character of the curtis lowpass, and there's nothing you can do about that.
Dsi synths always sounded to me like the stuff front 242 albums are made of. That's a good thing if you want it for that - but you can't make the filter respond differently than it does. You can, however, try to route the Prophet 12 with the filter fully open - thru another filter. Like, take the output of the P12 and plug it into a Vermona filter lancet. That would give you "creamy".
Old 26th January 2013
  #460
Gear Addict
 
🎧 10 years
Another demo.

I can't get over the sound of this synth.

Dave Smith's PROPHET 12 [NAMM 2013] - YouTube

Re an earlier post, Dave Smith mentions shipping of April/May here.
Old 26th January 2013
  #461
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crufty's Avatar
 
6 Reviews written
🎧 10 years
high pass resonant filter--that is pretty unique right?

to me it sounds future which is more important to me then retro

not sure if this makes sense? anyway, nice one! looking fwd to it.
Old 26th January 2013
  #462
Gear Nut
 
🎧 5 years
Anyone need a kidney? Selling for $3,000. Shipping April.
Old 26th January 2013 | Show parent
  #463
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Synth Buddha's Avatar
 
🎧 10 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by restlessboy ➑️
Anyone need a kidney? Selling for $3,000. Shipping April.
Sell both your kidneys and you can get a Solaris too. Seems like a nice combo to me. Just put a dialysis machine in the studio - it'll probably look super cool next to these synths.
Old 26th January 2013 | Show parent
  #464
Lives for gear
 
🎧 10 years
I like it. It's too big for my studio, really, but I do like it. A lot. I think the wood panels are a little ugly, though. Pretty tired of seeing wooden synths tbh. Oh well. Now some zealous tool can tell me it's all about the sound (clearly it is, I know this, most anyone with half a brain knows this, but like it or not appearance can mean a lot), and I think the front panel is nice, I'm just turned off by wood side panels. Maybe if I stain them black

Quote:
Originally Posted by sizzlemeister ➑️
I don't know if this has been mentioned yet, but this is from another forum and answers some questions:

"The oscillators are virtual, produced by a total of six SHARC chips. Output is then converted to analog to go to filters and VCAs. The chips also handle effects."
Good, because Motorola 56xxx DSPs sound cold and brittle
Old 26th January 2013 | Show parent
  #465
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Yoozer's Avatar
 
1 Review written
🎧 10 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by Synth Buddha ➑️
Just put a dialysis machine in the studio - it'll probably look super cool next to these synths.
Everyone will want to know what that amazing huge vintage Akai is and why they can't find a model number.



So fanatic about Eurocrack that you plug the patchcables directly in your wrist!
Old 26th January 2013 | Show parent
  #466
Gear Maniac
 
🎧 10 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by Looping Loddar ➑️
They are digital Oscillators, but they behave like DCO analog (or even better). The signal path is analog. The Oscillators (4 + 4 sub) are a strong part of the Prophet 12, indeed. Another strong part is the much improved VCF.
Thanks for this obviously well informed opinion.

4 sub osc per voice! Watch yer bowels.

I can understand when people have misread specs or something but this phenomenon where you get these odd distorted marketing narratives from people who clearly have nothing to do with the company and have never seen the product is just, weird.
Old 26th January 2013
  #467
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Septik's Avatar
 
🎧 5 years
I wish I liked the tone of this synth.... The features are amazing, but I just can't get myself to like the actual sonic content that comes out of it :(
Old 26th January 2013
  #468
Gear Addict
 
🎧 10 years
Well clearly you shouldn't force yourself to like it. Some will respond to particular sounds and others to others.
Old 26th January 2013 | Show parent
  #469
Lives for gear
 
🎧 10 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by masstronaut ➑️
Thanks for this obviously well informed opinion.

4 sub osc per voice! Watch yer bowels.
You got the numbers wrong. 4 oscilators and one sub osc per voice.
Not 4 sub osc per voice.
Old 26th January 2013 | Show parent
  #470
Gear Maniac
 
Lotus Voltage's Avatar
 
🎧 5 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by crufty ➑️
high pass resonant filter--that is pretty unique right?
Not really, many synths have them:

Doepfer Dark Energy 2, Studio Electronics Code and Omega, Vermona Filter Lancet, Alesis Andromeda A6, Roland Jupiter 6, MFB Dominion and Microzwerg, Analog Solutions Vostok and Tereshkova, Yamaha CS series, Elka Synthex, Korg MS20, Oberheim SEM, Oberheim Xpander and Matrix 12, Sherman Filterbank, Future Retro XS, Cwejman S1 MKII, Moog Voyager, Oxford Oscar, Arturia Minibrute...

Plus many modular synth companies have resonant high pass filter modules.

Also many digital and virtual analog synths have them such as the Waldorf Blofeld, Studiologic Sledge, Roland JP8000, Alesis Micron, Bowen Solaris etc.
Old 26th January 2013 | Show parent
  #471
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Synth Buddha's Avatar
 
🎧 10 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by Yoozer ➑️
Everyone will want to know what that amazing huge vintage Akai is and why they can't find a model number.



So fanatic about Eurocrack that you plug the patchcables directly in your wrist!
And then our very own AutoInsult will not waste any time in letting peope know that if you're just going to use presets and not your own blood to make new sounds, then you're just not serious about this stuff and in a perfect world you would be paying for your sins by facing a firing squad at 5 A.M. on a cold winter's morning in a deserted old town somewhere in Eastern Europe where they don't even speak a language you can understand.
Old 26th January 2013 | Show parent
  #472
Gear Head
 
🎧 5 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by zahush76 ➑️
It's also a bit of a shame he gave up on the prophet vs waveshapes and the sequencer. That means you can't do wave sequencing like on the Polyevolver, or assign the sequencer to other parameters, or advance thru the steps by each new key you press.
I'm actually REALLY happy it doesn't have the VS waves or a sequencer mod source. That way I won't feel so bad about keeping my PEK!!
Old 26th January 2013
  #473
Gear Maniac
 
jnurp's Avatar
 
1 Review written
🎧 10 years
wow Im a day late I guess but i am so blown away by DSI and their vision. What a great company. This looks like an absolute beast of a synth, I am definitly going to pick this up and that means selling a few synths I really love but hey, sometimes you have to get rid of the old to welcome the new.
Old 26th January 2013 | Show parent
  #474
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GYang's Avatar
 
3 Reviews written
🎧 15 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by zahush76 ➑️
Virtual oscilators? Produced by six sharc dsp chips?
Sounds like a description of the Solaris.
It has exactly 6 SHARC chips like Solaris, but Solaris does all that in 96kHz compared to 44 kHz of DSI. Actually I see a bit of dilemma why to make supposedly two ADDA conversions in between DOsc - Anal Filters - DEFX, when keeping all in digital would be great, if not much better solution. Solaris is the best example of synth that sounds gorgeous without anything analogue in the path. Furthermore its digital out (for DAW recording) makes lot of sense.
Old 26th January 2013 | Show parent
  #475
Gear Maniac
 
🎧 10 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by zahush76 ➑️
You got the numbers wrong. 4 oscilators and one sub osc per voice.
Not 4 sub osc per voice.
I wonder if they'll include a sarcasm detector?
Old 26th January 2013
  #476
Gear Addict
 
J# Minor's Avatar
 
🎧 10 years
The Prophet 12 looks amazing. If DSI plays their cards well, the P12 will be an instant classic.

Aways wanted to love DSI products, but could never get on with their timbral character. The P12 could be the one to break that pattern. Possibly-better-sounding oscs, tweaked filters, the character section, all those LFOs/EGs... This is a much deeper synth than the P08, covering a much more diverse range of timbres. I'll be watching with hopeful optimism to see/hear how this synth develops in the upcoming months.

Re: Analog vs. digital vs. hybrid vs. whatever... it doesn't matter. What do your ears tell you? Personally, some of my favorite sounds come from hybrid synths. In the modular community, where you can build the ultimate analog dream synth, people currently spend good money to buy as many digital oscs as they do VCOs. Why? Because each module excels at something a bit different than its peers.

Digital vs. analog oscs is sorta like hammer vs. screwdriver. Different tools for different jobs. Often you need both.
Old 26th January 2013 | Show parent
  #477
ozy
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ozy's Avatar
 
🎧 5 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by azone ➑️
I spent a good amount of time w/ the P12 on a decent pair of headphones. .
first hand knowledge: woppiee!!!!

Can you please expand about delay lines: can they be used within the synthesis chain (for pseudo physical modeling)?
Old 26th January 2013 | Show parent
  #478
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asynchro_nous's Avatar
 
🎧 10 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by GYang ➑️
- Anal Filters -

Yuck
Old 26th January 2013
  #479
F5D
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🎧 15 years
The solaris may need the 96 kHz clock rate beause it has digital filters. Oscillators do not necessarily need it. Does somebody know the clock rate of Waldorf Microwave (or how does it work)? At least the wavetables are only 8 bit, but it sounds great. Lofi = musical.
Old 26th January 2013 | Show parent
  #480
ozy
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ozy's Avatar
 
🎧 5 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by asynchro_nous ➑️
Yuck
could have been worse.

he could have brought "banana plugs" in the discussion
πŸ“ Reply

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