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DSI Prophet 12
Old 22nd September 2017 | Show parent
  #3331
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Quote:
Originally Posted by M32 ➡️
Today i got a moogerfooger MF108 chorus, and i must say, this thing pairs brilliantly with the Prophet 12, those slightly dirty bucket brigade chips really transform and warm up the P12 sound a treat.
If you are looking for a way to warm & analog up your sounds, this thing is a sure winner.

I think i just completed my all-star synth effect-pedal dream team:

MF108 Chorus
El Capistan Tape Delay
Big Sky Reverb
Ahhhhh... this may be what I'm looking for.
I was wonder what effect pedal/unit might serve this purpose as the P12 can sound a bit ..... well....you know at times.
Old 22nd September 2017 | Show parent
  #3332
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🎧 5 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by M32 ➡️
Today i got a moogerfooger MF108 chorus, and i must say, this thing pairs brilliantly with the Prophet 12, those slightly dirty bucket brigade chips really transform and warm up the P12 sound a treat.
If you are looking for a way to warm & analog up your sounds, this thing is a sure winner.

I think i just completed my all-star synth effect-pedal dream team:

MF108 Chorus
El Capistan Tape Delay
Big Sky Reverb
Are you using the mf108 and big sky at the same time?
If so, I love to hear an audio example with the P12 put through both.
Old 22nd September 2017 | Show parent
  #3333
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Quote:
Originally Posted by magikroom ➡️
A further 25 Patches...Messed a bit more with the FM capabilities, but using it subtly for tonal changes...That said, it made a big difference with some patches..."66 The FerryMan" especially. Was asked to add "Vox Humana" at the end, so I did.

I think that’s the hands down best Prophet 12 demo I’ve heard.
Old 22nd September 2017 | Show parent
  #3334
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Quote:
Originally Posted by zerocrossing ➡️
I think that’s the hands down best Prophet 12 demo I’ve heard.
Thanks for that...Funnily enough, the Bank is going to be released later on today...Just have the final video to upload.

I was hesitant to buy a Prophet 12, as I was a bit of an analogue purist, but that changed when I got the Novation PEAK. I would have preferred the keyboard version, but the module came up relatively cheap, so thought...what the Hell, give it a go.

Glad I did...It sounds great...The 4 Oscillators per voice, the Character section really allow you to shape some great sounds, before you've hit the Filter. People have said that the Synth is too "thin" and I guess most Poly's are and have to be to blend well...but there's more than enough low end on the 12.

I'll post the last video in here when I've uploaded...did some Yazoo, BOC and Spandau, which was requested.
Old 22nd September 2017
  #3335
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OK...Oracle Vol 1 is now released, here is the final video. More info at GEOSynths - Custom Patches & Video Reviews of FX Pedals

Old 22nd September 2017 | Show parent
  #3336
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Quote:
Originally Posted by magikroom ➡️
Thanks for that...Funnily enough, the Bank is going to be released later on today...Just have the final video to upload.

I was hesitant to buy a Prophet 12, as I was a bit of an analogue purist, but that changed when I got the Novation PEAK. I would have preferred the keyboard version, but the module came up relatively cheap, so thought...what the Hell, give it a go.

Glad I did...It sounds great...The 4 Oscillators per voice, the Character section really allow you to shape some great sounds, before you've hit the Filter. People have said that the Synth is too "thin" and I guess most Poly's are and have to be to blend well...but there's more than enough low end on the 12.

I'll post the last video in here when I've uploaded...did some Yazoo, BOC and Spandau, which was requested.
Yeah, I wouldn't call it thin, but I'm in the camp of people who don't always like it's sound, but you're right in saying that it does blend well. My issue is that I do sometimes just like to "jam" on a synth with nothing else going on. In that case, I think there are better choices...

...like the Pro 2. My dilemma at the moment is, the sound of the Pro 2 is more to my liking, but the size and voice count make it not the best choice. The 12 module, which I've owned in the past as a keyboard, would be a perfect physical fit, and have the generous voice count I'd prefer. One thing I'll admit is that I ditched the 12 keyboard I had right after the linear FM update came out, so I did not really explore that at all. Since my big complaint was the sound of the sawtooth, may I ask if you ever tried using FM to get a sawtooth? It would eat up an oscillator, but with 4, that's fine.
Old 22nd September 2017 | Show parent
  #3337
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🎧 5 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by zerocrossing ➡️
Yeah, I wouldn't call it thin, but I'm in the camp of people who don't always like it's sound, but you're right in saying that it does blend well. My issue is that I do sometimes just like to "jam" on a synth with nothing else going on. In that case, I think there are better choices...

...like the Pro 2. My dilemma at the moment is, the sound of the Pro 2 is more to my liking, but the size and voice count make it not the best choice. The 12 module, which I've owned in the past as a keyboard, would be a perfect physical fit, and have the generous voice count I'd prefer. One thing I'll admit is that I ditched the 12 keyboard I had right after the linear FM update came out, so I did not really explore that at all. Since my big complaint was the sound of the sawtooth, may I ask if you ever tried using FM to get a sawtooth? It would eat up an oscillator, but with 4, that's fine.
Funnily enough, I picked up a Pro 2 a couple of weeks ago at a decent price, ashamed to say I've only had about 10 minutes on it, while doing the Prophet 12 Patches...As you've owned one, you can understand with all that it offers, time can get away from you..And while the Bank contains 99 Patches, I did do more that didn't make the cut.

I used the FM capabilities for tonal changes to existing waves, not necessarily to recreate them in FM. What I did do though and this was because of using the REV 2, is to double up with a Saw and Triangle wave, as this is combined in the Rev2...I missed that, so I did use 2 Oscillators to act as one, so to speak.

I'm glad I bought it and as I said I got it at a good price, wasn't prepared to spend on the Keyboard version...though now, when the right one comes along, I will get the keyboard.

I get what you mean about just jamming, that's not something I've done for a while...will see if I can get time, before starting on Vol 2 for the DeepMind 12!
Old 22nd September 2017 | Show parent
  #3338
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🎧 10 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by magikroom ➡️
Funnily enough, I picked up a Pro 2 a couple of weeks ago at a decent price, ashamed to say I've only had about 10 minutes on it, while doing the Prophet 12 Patches...As you've owned one, you can understand with all that it offers, time can get away from you..And while the Bank contains 99 Patches, I did do more that didn't make the cut.

I used the FM capabilities for tonal changes to existing waves, not necessarily to recreate them in FM. What I did do though and this was because of using the REV 2, is to double up with a Saw and Triangle wave, as this is combined in the Rev2...I missed that, so I did use 2 Oscillators to act as one, so to speak.

I'm glad I bought it and as I said I got it at a good price, wasn't prepared to spend on the Keyboard version...though now, when the right one comes along, I will get the keyboard.

I get what you mean about just jamming, that's not something I've done for a while...will see if I can get time, before starting on Vol 2 for the DeepMind 12!
Oh, you should hit up that Pro 2 first! Since you get the architecture, for the most part, it'll seem like charted territory and those filters... so good. I'd be interested to hear if you think that, aside from the superwaves, the oscillators are the same on the 2. I keep listening to demos and they seem to be different, but it's hard to tell.
Old 23rd September 2017 | Show parent
  #3339
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🎧 5 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by zerocrossing ➡️
Since my big complaint was the sound of the sawtooth, may I ask if you ever tried using FM to get a sawtooth?
the p12 does not have FM feedback so you can forget about that.

however, you can generate sawtooth-like waveforms by syncing a sine oscillator, then combine this with FM.
it sounds a bit duller than a real saw but for certain sequences I actually prefer the pseudo saw.


the actual sawtooth wave sounds ok, in my opinion. here's a comparison with Reason's Thor softsynth (and a reminder for zerocrossing how the p12 sounds like):
(both patches use two sawtooths -- detuned, of course)
(the first sequence is a non-quantized live recording, the second one was programmed step by step)
(and no, these two synths are usually nothing alike but in this particular case they do sound quite similar, IMHO.)
Attached Files

p12_vs_thor-23Sep2017.mp3 (3.37 MB, 3811 views)

p12_pseudo_saw-23Sep2017.mp3 (1.80 MB, 3680 views)

Old 23rd September 2017 | Show parent
  #3340
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bsp804 ➡️
the p12 does not have FM feedback so you can forget about that.

however, you can generate sawtooth-like waveforms by syncing a sine oscillator, then combine this with FM.
it sounds a bit duller than a real saw but for certain sequences I actually prefer the pseudo saw.


the actual sawtooth wave sounds ok, in my opinion. here's a comparison with Reason's Thor softsynth (and a reminder for zerocrossing how the p12 sounds like):
(both patches use two sawtooths -- detuned, of course)
(the first sequence is a non-quantized live recording, the second one was programmed step by step)
(and no, these two synths are usually nothing alike but in this particular case they do sound quite similar, IMHO.)
Those aren’t filtered?
Old 23rd September 2017
  #3341
Zero you should create another gearslutz account and debate yourself on the Prophet 12.
Old 23rd September 2017 | Show parent
  #3342
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🎧 5 years
Since it may not be obvious to everyone, here's a little trick to get a more natural ("analog") sound from the p12.

Many (if not most) (soft-)synths have a hardcoded voice detuning to make them sound less static.

The P12 does not do that (fortunately!), instead it leaves it to the patch programmer to detune the voices.

In the attached sound clip you can hear some unfiltered single oscillator sawtooth waves, filter wide open, from the Thor softsynth and the P12:

@0:00: thor
@0:05: p12 (no detuning)
@0:10: p12 with slightly increased oscillator frequency keyboard tracking
@0:15: thor again
@0:18: p12 again

It's a simple trick that makes a huge difference.

One way to accomplish this is to route "Note Number" to "Osc x Freq" in the mod matrix (with low amount, e.g. 3).

Another way would be to use a custom tuning table that slightly detunes each note.
The tuning .syx files provided by DSI indicate that the synth supports the MIDI Tuning Standard so I think I'm going to give this a shot today.
Attached Files
Old 23rd September 2017 | Show parent
  #3343
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🎧 5 years
ok, here's a custom de-tuning table.

(by the way: I accidentally used the PythagoC.7 tuning in the previous sound samples, the default "equal temperement" tuning is actually slightly detuned already)

First sound clip is with equal temperment, second one with the custom (generated) tuning. No mod matrix modulations were used.

The syx file update tuning table #4 , in case anyone wants to try it.
Attached Files

p12_equal_temperment-23Sep2017.mp3 (1.43 MB, 3446 views)

p12_detuned-23Sep2017.mp3 (1.43 MB, 3427 views)

File Type: zip detunedx.zip (546 Bytes, 15 views)
Old 23rd September 2017 | Show parent
  #3344
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🎧 5 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by bsp804 ➡️
Since it may not be obvious to everyone, here's a little trick to get a more natural ("analog") sound from the p12.

Many (if not most) (soft-)synths have a hardcoded voice detuning to make them sound less static.

The P12 does not do that (fortunately!), instead it leaves it to the patch programmer to detune the voices.

In the attached sound clip you can hear some unfiltered single oscillator sawtooth waves, filter wide open, from the Thor softsynth and the P12:

@0:00: thor
@0:05: p12 (no detuning)
@0:10: p12 with slightly increased oscillator frequency keyboard tracking
@0:15: thor again
@0:18: p12 again

It's a simple trick that makes a huge difference.

One way to accomplish this is to route "Note Number" to "Osc x Freq" in the mod matrix (with low amount, e.g. 3).

Another way would be to use a custom tuning table that slightly detunes each note.
The tuning .syx files provided by DSI indicate that the synth supports the MIDI Tuning Standard so I think I'm going to give this a shot today.
When I'm using stretch tuning, I usually just apply it to one of the oscillators in a patch, usually only using a value of one, any more just starts sounding sloppy. I find this is a much more natural and pleasing sound than just detuning two oscillators by a fixed value.

I have a hunch that some of the perceived richness of some classic analogue synth may be down to very slight variations in the pitch tracking between oscillators.

Another related trick I've started using a lot is to have the filter set to 100% key tracking (value of 64), then send some of a little of a sine wave oscillator output to the cutoff in the mod matrix. With the right cut off and resonance settings, applying some slop or pitch stretching to the sine wave oscillator has a really interesting effect on the filter giving some pleasing 'filter beating'.

Also applying the sine wave oscillator signal to the hpf resonance can really add weight to the sound. A value in the mod matrix of around 25 with the hpf cut off set to a value of around 20, with 1/2 key track (32), and resonance depth to taste seems to work well.

Adding some of the sine wave oscillator audio alongside the sawtooths (or what ever you are using) also adds some really nice depth to the sound compared to the saws alone.
Old 23rd September 2017 | Show parent
  #3345
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🎧 5 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by adydub ➡️
Also applying the sine wave oscillator signal to the hpf resonance can really add weight to the sound.
the most weird thing about this is that the synth generates sound even when all OSCs (with a level > 0) are switched off, LPF cutoff is set to 0 (in 24db mode), leaving only the modulator OSC (with level = 0 and a mod matrix routing to HPF resonance) :-)

the OSC to LPF cutoff trick is definitely very neat, I've been using that a lot for pads. Sounds different than filter-FM on the P08 for example but still very useful to create a more organic sound.

have you tried the delay pan position=180 trick I mentioned a few months ago ? (you need a mod matrix entry to push the value beyond the usual +63)

what's also useful sometimes is that it is possible to set a negative LPF frequency (also via the mod matrix).

modulating the VCA with an OSC can also yield some interesting results, especially for ambient sounds.

--

I've been exploring the whole randomized tuning topic a bit more (it is actually not as easy as it sounds!).

In case you did not know, the p12 is actually one of the very few synths that implement the MIDI Tuning Standard (from 1992!). Very cool of DSI to implement this relatively exotic feature.

I generated a couple of new random tunings that go from "slightly detuned" to "completely out of tune" in 8 steps.

Please find attached the .syx files for the tunings.

They overwrite tunings #2 ..#9 but it's always possible to restore the factory tunings via the "P12-Alternative-Tunings-ReadMe.zip" that you can download from DSI (I took the liberty to also attach this to this post, hope that's ok).

Last but not least, here's another short sound clip that demos the new tunings:
Attached Files
Old 23rd September 2017
  #3346
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🎧 10 years
I just route 'random' to oscillator pitch in small amounts, that way it's not slewing around with the slop knob, but each new note just jumps to a new value - sounds great when you're playing mono lines with repeated 16th notes, each one is a bit different.
A-A-A-A-A-A-A-A-B-B-B-B-B-B-B-B-G-G-G-G-G-G-G-G-E-E-E-E-E-E-E-E
but with the alt tuning each note would only be out of tune from different notes.
Old 24th September 2017 | Show parent
  #3347
M32
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Analog8 ➡️
Are you using the mf108 and big sky at the same time?
If so, I love to hear an audio example with the P12 put through both.
All 3 are set up as send-return fx, so i can route audio through them any way i want.
Usually i have the synth sending into the reverb, and sending into the delay, which in turn sends a bit into the reverb.
I tend to send the mf chorus return channel a bit into the reverb and delay as well, so the whole thing gells together.
The return of the El capistan goes into a stereo channel where the left channel is delayed, usually by a sixteenth note division of the project tempo, giving a pseudo stereo feel.

i've been wanting to make some demo videos, but i've been so busy lately. Maybe somewhere later this week
Old 24th September 2017 | Show parent
  #3348
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Quote:
Originally Posted by magikroom ➡️
OK...Oracle Vol 1 is now released, here is the final video. More info at GEOSynths - Custom Patches & Video Reviews of FX Pedals

Nice I will be putting in my order.
Old 24th November 2017
  #3349
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Black Friday Patches

Just to let you know, for Black Friday I have reduced the prices from $29 to $20 for all my Patches. Runs until Tuesday.

GEOSynths - Custom Patches & Video Reviews of FX Pedals

Old 3rd December 2017 | Show parent
  #3350
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🎧 5 years
Like the patch

Quote:
Originally Posted by magikroom ➡️
Just to let you know, for Black Friday I have reduced the prices from $29 to $20 for all my Patches. Runs until Tuesday.

GEOSynths - Custom Patches & Video Reviews of FX Pedals

Plz make vol 2! Looking for more FM sound and classic analog poly sound!

Btw can anybody share a tip that use 4 delays?

I want to create chorus effect, tremolo effect, spring reverb and as well as more longer tail reverb.

Can anybody share a tip? Thanks !
Old 3rd December 2017 | Show parent
  #3351
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🎧 5 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by shimoyjk ➡️
I want to create chorus effect, tremolo effect, spring reverb and as well as more longer tail reverb.

Can anybody share a tip? Thanks !
Some starting ideas from Peter Dyer here:

Dave Smith Instruments

For tremolo though you would typically apply LFO to the Amp level.

I don't have a Pro-12, but a Pro-2 which also has the 4 delays. I haven't been able to get longer reverb tails - don't think this is really possible - but for a sense of space, especially for pads, I use two hard-panned delays using different delay times. YMMV.
Old 3rd December 2017 | Show parent
  #3352
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Quote:
Originally Posted by shimoyjk ➡️
Plz make vol 2! Looking for more FM sound and classic analog poly sound!

Btw can anybody share a tip that use 4 delays?

I want to create chorus effect, tremolo effect, spring reverb and as well as more longer tail reverb.

Can anybody share a tip? Thanks !
I shared some tricks regarding Chorus in this thread here. Reverb is really a mix of the 4 delays with different times. Since they all run parallel you will be somewhat limited but it certainly works. The most tricky part is the balance between feedback, delay times, and amount. But with a little patience you will get some decent reverbs.
Old 3rd December 2017
  #3353
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🎧 5 years
Thanks for those advices! i'm checking those right now.

Old 5th December 2018 | Show parent
  #3354
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Quote:
Originally Posted by grumphh ➡️
Yup, who wants to hear filter sweeps on a WaldorfXT? heh
So much more there.


...and since we are talking "so much more" - there are digital oscillators with wavetables on the P12.

How hard can it be to program the ability to upload user-wavetables into those?
I mean, if you go digital, give the users something to play with themselves?
I like the way the filters on the XT sound.
Old 7th December 2018 | Show parent
  #3355
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🎧 10 years
I am so glad the Prophet 12 has no "internal FX engine" out of it's delays, so it's a much more honest machine in comparison to most other modern synths. I turn FX always off whenever it is possible on my synths and use my own FX box configurations. Even on my OB6 or the Korg Prologue, the well praised FX engine makes it (to me) less analog sounding. And on the Novation Peak, I prefer the pure sound over the one soaked in FX as well, even if it has a very decent reverb on board.

In contrary to my scruples aboout internal digital FX , I prefer the somehow smoother sounding digital oscillators of my Prophet 12 to those "buzzy" ones in my Rev2. I love my Rev2, but if I had to deceide between the Rev2 and Prophet 12 in terms of sound, I would keep the Prophet 12. It's just such a heavenly sounding synthesizer.
Old 8th December 2018 | Show parent
  #3356
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🎧 5 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jauly ➡️
I am so glad the Prophet 12 has no "internal FX engine" out of it's delays, so it's a much more honest machine in comparison to most other modern synths. I turn FX always off whenever it is possible on my synths and use my own FX box configurations. Even on my OB6 or the Korg Prologue, the well praised FX engine makes it (to me) less analog sounding. And on the Novation Peak, I prefer the pure sound over the one soaked in FX as well, even if it has a very decent reverb on board.

In contrary to my scruples aboout internal digital FX , I prefer the somehow smoother sounding digital oscillators of my Prophet 12 to those "buzzy" ones in my Rev2. I love my Rev2, but if I had to deceide between the Rev2 and Prophet 12 in terms of sound, I would keep the Prophet 12. It's just such a heavenly sounding synthesizer.
It seems the Prophet 12 delays fx are part of its synthesis features.
I also prefer synths without fx.
That’s why I love old Clavias. It makes you work them more.
Old 10th December 2018
  #3357
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The new CPM2 Sound Set will be out soon!


Old 10th December 2018 | Show parent
  #3358
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bug2342 ➡️
Old quote, but does this mean, the digital part runs at 88kHz or higher? Nice!

Other (rather technical) questions:

- Is the FM phase modulation or DC linear FM or AC linear FM ?
(OK first and last option should be similar...)

- Since we have a mod matrix: can we do AM, too?
(should work, just modulate oscillator amplitude)

Curious about modulating wave shape and the character section at audio rate...
This is basically asking for aliasing, but the high sample rate might help.

Having only 11kHz control of the analog part seems a bit low...
This limits filter FM etc. at approx. 5kHz and could even introduce aliasing.
Should still be OK...

Having a bunch of DCOs in this box that are not wired up seems a bit sad, but probably the cost of all the DA converters to drive them and the analog mixing would have been a bit to high. Maybe high sample rate digital oscillators are actually better...
I’m also interested in knowing more about filter fm with the digital osc.
Does it sound good?
Does it sound like Prophet 8 filter fm?
Old 14th December 2018 | Show parent
  #3359
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RonF ➡️
So this thread is now 58 pages long. I'm not going to read it all...but here's my question...

I have a PEK. Is the consensus that the P12 is worth it, or not, if I already dig the PEK. Is the sound THAT much different? I am pretty familiar with the key differences of P12: no analog oscs, no step seq, fewer waveforms in the digital oscs. And the voice count is not too important to me. I get along just fine with PEK's voices. The extra voices would be great...but not essential. What I am interested in is the sound design and depth of character. New is not always better....but it can be seductive. If you had the PEK....would you go for the P12? Anyone whose taken delivery of a P12 also have a PE to compare to sonically?
Exactly in the same situation!
Any thoughts?
Old 14th December 2018 | Show parent
  #3360
Gear Maniac
 
🎧 10 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by camarao ➡️
Exactly in the same situation!
Any thoughts?
I have a Prophet 12 and a Poly Evolver keyboard + Rack for poly chain. The Prophet 12 basic sound is more "hi fi" and smooth. The Evolver is more raw, but can sound deep as well. They are different enough to my ears to keep both.
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