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DSI Prophet 12
Old 10th May 2017 | Show parent
  #3241
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Bobswans's Avatar
 
🎧 5 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by bsp804 ➡️
I just added a simplified option that lets you smoothly cycle through the first 4, 8, 16, or 32 patches (or alternatively, patches 33..64) of the "per project" soundbank (the first 16 soundbanks in my editor are global, soundbank 17 is saved with each project).

It's much easier to use than having to set separate src / dest / blend NRPNs (although that is still possible).

I also added a few new options to control (e.g. prevent) the interpolation of the LFO/ENV3+4 mod destinations (this was previously only configurable for mod matrix entries).

Here's a little experiment that starts with a pad sound, morphs to another pad sound, then through 6 different more percussive sounds that are variations of each other.

All patches share common mod matrix entries (for modwheel routing). The morph position is again controlled by a (single) MIDI fader.

Up to 105 parameters are being interpolated per controller movement. Yay for USB MIDI :-)
Very impressed with what you have done with this and very much looking forward to having a go of it

That last demo sounds really nice
Old 10th May 2017 | Show parent
  #3242
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rasseru's Avatar
 
1 Review written
🎧 10 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by bsp804 ➡️
I just added a simplified option that lets you smoothly cycle through the first 4, 8, 16, or 32 patches (or alternatively, patches 33..64) of the "per project" soundbank (the first 16 soundbanks in my editor are global, soundbank 17 is saved with each project).

It's much easier to use than having to set separate src / dest / blend NRPNs (although that is still possible).

I also added a few new options to control (e.g. prevent) the interpolation of the LFO/ENV3+4 mod destinations (this was previously only configurable for mod matrix entries).

Here's a little experiment that starts with a pad sound, morphs to another pad sound, then through 6 different more percussive sounds that are variations of each other.

All patches share common mod matrix entries (for modwheel routing). The morph position is again controlled by a (single) MIDI fader.

Up to 105 parameters are being interpolated per controller movement. Yay for USB MIDI :-)
that sounds great, is there morph for the pro2 editor?


also some of these suggestions are cool for the pro2. its a bit similar, i cant work out wtf hack is for either, sounds terrible
Old 10th May 2017 | Show parent
  #3243
Lives for gear
 
🎧 5 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bobswans ➡️
Very impressed with what you have done with this and very much looking forward to having a go of it

That last demo sounds really nice
thanks!

Quote:
Originally Posted by clusterchord ➡️
wow this opens an endless world of posibilities [..]wish you could do something like this for Andromeda, it also works with NPRNs
You'll be pleased to hear that my software also contains a generic morph "node".

The SW tracks the current controller states of all synths that send CCs and/or NRPNs while you edit patches via their HW panels.

You can then create (and edit) snapshots of these controller states and morph between them.

This also works with non-USB MIDI synths since it is possible to configure a temporal distribution of the controller updates so they don't choke all MIDI communication. You can also prioritize the controller updates.

Not as fancy as the P12 specific morph features but you can achieve very similar results.

Very useful for creating evolving soundscapes
Old 10th May 2017 | Show parent
  #3244
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🎧 10 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by adydub ➡️
Changed my soundcloud user name which broke all the links - updated in my original post



All my Prophet 12 demos can be found here now https://soundcloud.com/icanhazsynth
Great demos. I realize some are drenched in reverb, but these are the first where I really feel like I get a good send of the "sound" of the thing. The filter sounds much better than I remember from previous DSI synths.

General question for anyone who has used these: I currently have two SQ-80s and a Waldorf MW1. I have held off jumping on a P12 because I figured there would be too much overlap (lying directly in between the SQ and MW in my mind). The SQ80s aren't going anywhere, but I could see getting rid of the MW. Are there arguments for/against dropping a P12 into this mix? Aside from the nice interface, it seems to have a very "SQ80" type murky vibe, but with some added tricks, and obviously more in the way of wavetable modulation and the very cool FM abilities. I do love the MW sound, but I often find it very same-y, with a lot of what I like about it being due to the nice filter, rather than extensive wavetable modulation abilities.
Old 10th May 2017 | Show parent
  #3245
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🎧 5 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sir Ruff ➡️
General question for anyone who has used these: I currently have two SQ-80s and a Waldorf MW1. I have held off jumping on a P12 because I figured there would be too much overlap (lying directly in between the SQ and MW in my mind). The SQ80s aren't going anywhere, but I could see getting rid of the MW. Are there arguments for/against dropping a P12 into this mix? Aside from the nice interface, it seems to have a very "SQ80" type murky vibe, but with some added tricks, and obviously more in the way of wavetable modulation and the very cool FM abilities.
I have the SQ80 and P12, but no MW1 (the original MW is pretty pricey these days, SQ80 has also climbed up in price). Do all 3 have the same filter, or am I remembering wrong?

The SQ80 is a haunted synth, plain and simple . I find the P12 a bit different and a lot more - but then I'm not actually trying to replace the SQ80/ESQ-1 sound and have a bunch of plugins (and I suppose, Virus TI) for wavetables. My take on the P12 in general, and certainly this is colored by what other synths I have:
  • Analog pads - Pretty good, needs some modulation set up. I tended to pick the KingKorg instead when I had it, and now the P6/OB6.
  • Bass/Lead - Obviously a lot of mono options here, but the P12 is no slouch. I have too many monos, haven't really evaluated the P12.
  • Wavetable - Limited selection, partly made up for with lots of flexibility and modulation. For more classic wavetable sounds and huge waveform selection I prefer software today. The SQ80 can do some breathy & ethereal pads, but the P12 brings a lot of new options to the table. The 4 oscillators and shape mod can easily get into evolving pad territory. Only complaint is wavetable selection - if the P12 had all VS waveforms or allowed user waveforms, it would be a never-sell in my book.
  • (Psuedo-)LoFi Digital - SQ80 and P12 overlap a bit. I like both right now - enough to justify keeping both maybe, but if I sold one it would be the P12. If you're looking to sell the SQ80, the SQ8L plug-in is very good BTW.
  • FM - I prefer TX81z/FB01 for lo-fi and TX802/FS1R for hi-fi FM, but again the P12 can get into that territory easily. There is something different about the P12 FM for sure, maybe less overtones or maybe the modulation index is scaled differently. But lots of usable FM sounds. It can do most of the classic DX sounds like bells, FM piano, etc. I like P12 FM more for the harsher digital sounds it can produce with its giant mod matrix, which can also easily be controlled using standard subtractive-synth filters.
  • Trance stuff? P12 can do a mean supersaw (but requires modulation setup unlike Pro-2). Perhaps better than the Virus TI.
  • The "P12 sound" - is there such a thing universally? I guess for me its running envelopes on individual oscs (similar to SQ80), modulating the delay lines for detailed pan/chorus (no real comparison), tuned feedback for lots of nastiness (again, unique), per-voice character FX (Virus can go there, but not as good IMO), stacking HPF and LPF in parallel for a CEM "notch" filter (P08 can't do that), etc.
Old 10th May 2017 | Show parent
  #3246
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adydub's Avatar
 
🎧 5 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sir Ruff ➡️
Great demos. I realize some are drenched in reverb, but these are the first where I really feel like I get a good send of the "sound" of the thing. The filter sounds much better than I remember from previous DSI synths.
Thanks, but basically no reverb used - it's pretty much all 100% Prophet 12 straight into a portable recorder or an interface. There is a tiny tiny bit of reverb on the filter demo because I didn't manage to turn the aux send all the way down on my desk and couldn't be bothered to re-record. There's also a shed load of BigSky on the very last sound of the filter demo because I wanted to go big . Pretty sure there's no reverb at all on any of the other demos I put up.

Everything else is from the onboard delays. And they are used liberally in places because I like how it sounds . And the delays are part of the synthesis engine rather than separate fx units on the stereo bus, so I figure it's all fair play for the demos.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Sir Ruff ➡️
General question for anyone who has used these: I currently have two SQ-80s and a Waldorf MW1. I have held off jumping on a P12 because I figured there would be too much overlap (lying directly in between the SQ and MW in my mind). The SQ80s aren't going anywhere, but I could see getting rid of the MW. Are there arguments for/against dropping a P12 into this mix? Aside from the nice interface, it seems to have a very "SQ80" type murky vibe, but with some added tricks, and obviously more in the way of wavetable modulation and the very cool FM abilities. I do love the MW sound, but I often find it very same-y, with a lot of what I like about it being due to the nice filter, rather than extensive wavetable modulation abilities.
As I've said elsewhere, the Prophet 12 is hugely versatile (and as a consequence it's very easy to make it sound bad). You can cover way more ground than with an SQ80 or a Microwave, but it's not really going to replace the unique character of either.
Old 10th May 2017
  #3247
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🎧 10 years
Awesome adydub. Thanks for that detailed rundown, extremely helpful to me, and I'm sure others as well. If you have an SQ-80 and find there to be not too much cross-over, then that's all I really need to hear. I can live without the MW, which largely serves "wavetable" only duties in the face of the SQ (although I do find the filter a little harmonically sweeter on the MW). The MW has some nice distorted sound too, but I suspect the P12 more than covers that territory. The FM is also a big selling point.

Interesting to hear all your demo "reverb" is largely the delays. I actually wondered as much, but they sounded so smooth, I took it for reverb. I think that's totally valid to use them for demo purposes as that really is "part" of the machine architecture.
Old 10th May 2017 | Show parent
  #3248
Lives for gear
 
🎧 10 years
Also, I'm sure this has been answered elsewhere, but how does one identify if that frequency peak issue that has been mentioned before is present on a given P12? Is there a standard setting to audition to test for it? Or was this fixed in a more recent OS?
Old 10th May 2017 | Show parent
  #3249
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Grimulkan's Avatar
 
🎧 5 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sir Ruff ➡️
If you have an SQ-80 and find there to be not too much cross-over, then that's all I really need to hear.
Yes, I'd say if I sold one it won't be because the other covered it.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sir Ruff ➡️
Also, I'm sure this has been answered elsewhere, but how does one identify if that frequency peak issue that has been mentioned before is present on a given P12? Is there a standard setting to audition to test for it? Or was this fixed in a more recent OS?
I never had that issue (though there is a slight peak on a spectrum plot), but previous posts showed ordinary spectrum plots with fairly prominent 11 KHz peaks IIRC. So I'm thinking if your ears are good and the peak is bad, you can hear it! Or use any plugin that displays the frequency spectrum on pretty much any patch producing sound.

Edit: I think this is the thread

Last edited by Grimulkan; 10th May 2017 at 06:42 PM.. Reason: Added link
Old 10th May 2017 | Show parent
  #3250
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🎧 10 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by Grimulkan ➡️
I never had that issue (though there is a slight peak on a spectrum plot), but previous posts showed ordinary spectrum plots with fairly prominent 11 KHz peaks IIRC. So I'm thinking if your ears are good and the peak is bad, you can hear it! Or use any plugin that displays the frequency spectrum on pretty much any patch producing sound.

Edit: I think this is the thread
Right, that's it. So it there, but you can't hear it, or is it just less prominent on your machine? Or is it just the case that you'd have to boost the signal quite high to actually hear it? I haven't been able to suss out whether this is a standard thing on all P-12s.
Old 10th May 2017 | Show parent
  #3251
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Grimulkan's Avatar
 
🎧 5 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sir Ruff ➡️
Right, that's it. So it there, but you can't hear it, or is it just less prominent on your machine? Or is it just the case that you'd have to boost the signal quite high to actually hear it? I haven't been able to suss out whether this is a standard thing on all P-12s.
I can barely see it above my interface noise floor (~-90 dB), but that might be just mine. I think someone mentioned it is the frequency at which signals are resampled for digital control (for audio-rate mod matrix).
Old 10th May 2017 | Show parent
  #3252
Lives for gear
 
🎧 10 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by Grimulkan ➡️
I can barely see it above my interface noise floor (~-90 dB), but that might be just mine.
ok, thanks. Based on the spectrographs posted in the thread you linked to, that looks "normal". Offhand I don't know how quiet -90dB is, but if it's noisefloor level, that's pretty quiet.
Old 11th May 2017 | Show parent
  #3253
Gear Maniac
 
Bobswans's Avatar
 
🎧 5 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sir Ruff ➡️
ok, thanks. Based on the spectrographs posted in the thread you linked to, that looks "normal". Offhand I don't know how quiet -90dB is, but if it's noisefloor level, that's pretty quiet.
Another post from the old DSI lifeboat forum has more specific details on this issue.
I had my Module board replaced and it fixed it.

It was a particular preset that displayed the spike
URGENT!!!! Some digital sound leaking in my p12 patches. - Page 6 - DSI / Prophet Forum

The thread is that old that most of the audio and image links are dead
and the link only works 50% of the time.
Old 11th May 2017 | Show parent
  #3254
Lives for gear
 
🎧 10 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bobswans ➡️
Another post from the old DSI lifeboat forum has more specific details on this issue.
I had my Module board replaced and it fixed it.

It was a particular preset that displayed the spike
URGENT!!!! Some digital sound leaking in my p12 patches. - Page 6 - DSI / Prophet Forum

The thread is that old that most of the audio and image links are dead
and the link only works 50% of the time.
Great, thanks! So that post suggests a) it is not present on all models, and b) it can be fixed to some extent with rev. D boards? Would be great if there was a way to ID this fix just based on serial numbers.
Old 12th May 2017
  #3255
Gear Maniac
 
stixman's Avatar
 
🎧 5 years
I have sent my motherboard to be checked as I think mine suffers with this spike!
Old 28th May 2017
  #3256
Gear Addict
 
🎧 5 years
Hello guys! One question.
When I use p12 keyboard with sequencer(logic, ableton, etc..)
It doulble voicies that i play.

Let's say I play 3 note chord and it suppose to use just 3 voice but whenever P12 is connected to computer, it use doubled voice(so if I play 3 note, led shows it use 6 voices)

I am using Usb cable for midi btw.

Problem occurs only when I record realtime.

When I play back midi region, it comes back to normal.

I think it should be pretty easy to figure it out but I have no idea what to do.

Thanks in advance.
Old 28th May 2017 | Show parent
  #3257
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Grimulkan's Avatar
 
🎧 5 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by shimoyjk ➡️
Hello guys! One question.
When I use p12 keyboard with sequencer(logic, ableton, etc..)
It doulble voicies that i play.

Let's say I play 3 note chord and it suppose to use just 3 voice but whenever P12 is connected to computer, it use doubled voice(so if I play 3 note, led shows it use 6 voices)

I am using Usb cable for midi btw.

Problem occurs only when I record realtime.

When I play back midi region, it comes back to normal.

I think it should be pretty easy to figure it out but I have no idea what to do.

Thanks in advance.
Stack mode on?
Old 28th May 2017
  #3258
Lives for gear
 
🎧 10 years
You're getting a midi feedback loop from your computer. Disable midi out from your computer, or mute the midi channel you're recording to so it doesn't send the midi information back out to your p12
Old 2nd June 2017 | Show parent
  #3259
Gear Addict
 
🎧 5 years
Thanks!

Quote:
Originally Posted by oinkbanana ➡️
You're getting a midi feedback loop from your computer. Disable midi out from your computer, or mute the midi channel you're recording to so it doesn't send the midi information back out to your p12

Thanks a lot! I haven't had a time to test this, but I'm sure this will fix the problem.

I Will test this weekend and report back for sure.


Thanks
Old 2nd June 2017 | Show parent
  #3260
Lives for gear
 
🎧 5 years
Prophet 12 Editor and Patch Morpher

My Prophet 12 editor / patch morpher is now available for download. I also recorded a short video that shows how to set it up and use it: https://vimeo.com/219669148

The morph in that video is rather subtle but as you can hear in the sound examples I posted earlier in this thread, it is perfectly possible to morph between completely different patches.

There are two ways to morph patches:
  1. Manually morph between two patches and store the result in the patch that is currently being edited (see "Transform" page of the synth editor)
  2. (non-destructive) realtime morphing between "n" patches (in bank 17)
Both methods use the same transform / morph setup.

Another thing you have to know about the editor is that the first 16 sound banks are stored globally (click the "Save All" button in the editor to save them).
Bank 17 is a project-specific bank that is saved with the project file.
Old 2nd June 2017 | Show parent
  #3261
Gear Maniac
 
Bobswans's Avatar
 
🎧 5 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by bsp804 ➡️
My Prophet 12 editor / patch morpher is now available for download. I also recorded a short video that shows how to set it up and use it: https://vimeo.com/219669148

The morph in that video is rather subtle but as you can hear in the sound examples I posted earlier in this thread, it is perfectly possible to morph between completely different patches.

There are two ways to morph patches:
  1. Manually morph between two patches and store the result in the patch that is currently being edited (see "Transform" page of the synth editor)
  2. (non-destructive) realtime morphing between "n" patches (in bank 17)
Both methods use the same transform / morph setup.

Another thing you have to know about the editor is that the first 16 sound banks are stored globally (click the "Save All" button in the editor to save them).
Bank 17 is a project-specific bank that is saved with the project file.
Great news, i will do some testing tonight
Old 6th June 2017
  #3262
Gear Nut
 
🎧 5 years
Quick question for P12 owners. Is there a way to edit the oscillator settings on multiple oscillators at the same time? From wat I can tell you have to edit them one at a time which is annoying. For example if I wanted to change all four oscillators to have a sine wave I would have to change each one at a time rather than selecting all four and editing at once.

I remember my old JD800 allowed you to activate any permutation of the 4 oscillators allowing you to edit the active oscillators all at once. Would be great if you could do this with the oscillator selectors on the P12 but from what I can tell you can't. Unless I'm missing something?
Old 6th June 2017 | Show parent
  #3263
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Grimulkan's Avatar
 
🎧 5 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by ajman ➡️
Quick question for P12 owners. Is there a way to edit the oscillator settings on multiple oscillators at the same time? From wat I can tell you have to edit them one at a time which is annoying. For example if I wanted to change all four oscillators to have a sine wave I would have to change each one at a time rather than selecting all four and editing at once.

I remember my old JD800 allowed you to activate any permutation of the 4 oscillators allowing you to edit the active oscillators all at once. Would be great if you could do this with the oscillator selectors on the P12 but from what I can tell you can't. Unless I'm missing something?
You can - though not the Roland way where you can toggle selection of each osc separately to edit. On the P12, you press & hold any of the osc selector switches which will take you into a new mode (and light up the LEDs for all 4 oscs). Any edit to any oscillator using the usual controls will be reflected to all 4. In addition, the parameter you just tweaked will show up on the display, with separate controls for each osc mapped to the 4 soft knobs - so you quickly dial in a common setting and then individually tweak any differences. You can't edit 2 or 3 oscs at a time (only 1 or 4).

Same trick works for the 4 delays too.
Old 6th June 2017 | Show parent
  #3264
Gear Nut
 
🎧 5 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by Grimulkan ➡️
You can - though not the Roland way where you can toggle selection of each osc separately to edit. On the P12, you press & hold any of the osc selector switches which will take you into a new mode (and light up the LEDs for all 4 oscs). Any edit to any oscillator using the usual controls will be reflected to all 4. In addition, the parameter you just tweaked will show up on the display, with separate controls for each osc mapped to the 4 soft knobs - so you quickly dial in a common setting and then individually tweak any differences. You can't edit 2 or 3 oscs at a time (only 1 or 4).

Same trick works for the 4 delays too.
OK thanks. Will give it a try later.
Old 7th June 2017 | Show parent
  #3265
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Septic's Avatar
 
🎧 10 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by Grimulkan ➡️
You can - though not the Roland way where you can toggle selection of each osc separately to edit. On the P12, you press & hold any of the osc selector switches which will take you into a new mode (and light up the LEDs for all 4 oscs). Any edit to any oscillator using the usual controls will be reflected to all 4. In addition, the parameter you just tweaked will show up on the display, with separate controls for each osc mapped to the 4 soft knobs - so you quickly dial in a common setting and then individually tweak any differences. You can't edit 2 or 3 oscs at a time (only 1 or 4).

Same trick works for the 4 delays too.
and the LFOs
Old 7th June 2017 | Show parent
  #3266
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Grimulkan's Avatar
 
🎧 5 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by Septic ➡️
and the LFOs
I knew I forgot something! Can't remember, envelopes?
Old 7th June 2017 | Show parent
  #3267
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🎧 5 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by Grimulkan ➡️
On the P12, you press & hold any of the osc selector switches which will take you into a new mode (and light up the LEDs for all 4 oscs). Any edit to any oscillator using the usual controls will be reflected to all 4
hah, I did not know that, nice tip !

I have the desktop module which I usually edit via SW.

Well, I've updated my editor today, see this thread or go straight to miditracker.org.

The updated version now supports "multi-editing" (hold down the left ALT key while editing an osc / env / lfo / delay param to edit all 4).

This also works for the "virtual" parameters like "Enable" and params with extendable ranges (e.g. FM amount).

Speaking of which: I also added an extendable range option for the delay line "Pan" parameter.

This may sound nonsensical at first but check out this video https://vimeo.com/220633861 . Some really interesting things happen when the panning is pushed beyond the usual range. I really wonder what is going on but it sure sounds nice .. !
Old 25th July 2017
  #3268
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bjoerngiesler's Avatar
 
🎧 5 years
Hey guys, I think I've fallen in love with the Prophet-12. Since I don't have room for many synths, I plan to use this as my main "synth" keybed as well. I have a Kronos 88, but synth lines on a piano keyboard... you know. Therefore my question to the P12 owners: How good is the keyboard, and does it have any master keyboard functions?
Old 26th July 2017 | Show parent
  #3269
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Grimulkan's Avatar
 
🎧 5 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by bjoerngiesler ➡️
Hey guys, I think I've fallen in love with the Prophet-12. Since I don't have room for many synths, I plan to use this as my main "synth" keybed as well. I have a Kronos 88, but synth lines on a piano keyboard... you know. Therefore my question to the P12 owners: How good is the keyboard, and does it have any master keyboard functions?
I already had other keybeds when I got my P12, so I just preferred those over the P12. However it is a pretty good keybed. Different from the P08 before it (less clicky IMO) and the OB6/P6 after it (I find velocity and aftertouch easier to control on the P12).

Some thoughts on master keyboard functionality:
You can turn local off for basically everything, including the knobs, so you can remap them in software.
Some of the knobs transmit MIDI NRPN rather than CC, so it may take some MIDI processing to get everything mapped to another synth or VSTi.
You can change transmitted MIDI channel, but it is a few menu presses away.
Touch sliders are nice on a master keyboard.
Not sure if velocity/aftertouch response curves are applied on transmission, or only on receiving MIDI.
I don't think it has any other fancy hardware master keyboard functions like split channel assignment (Edit: Turns out 2 separate MIDI channels can indeed be assigned via the menu).

Last edited by Grimulkan; 1st August 2017 at 09:12 PM..
Old 27th July 2017 | Show parent
  #3270
M32
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M32's Avatar
Hi people, i now have 4 banks of custom patches available here:

https://sellfy.com/black_materia

They are the culmination of a whole year of research and experiments with this mad machine.
All patches are A&B, layered or 2 alternate versions.
All mod slots are used and you can use PB, MW, slider 1&2, and midi CC 2, CC11 and CC4 to get all sorts of interesting modulation and complex rythmical & timbral changes.

here are some links to soundcloud demo's of various sounds:







greetings & synth love,
M
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