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Old 30th January 2015 | Show parent
  #61
SEED78
Guest
Quote:
Originally Posted by krylenko ➡️
I just have to ask. You know the DX7IID is a keyboard synth, right?
you know full sized keyboard synths have racks?

otherwise known as 'stands'
Old 30th January 2015 | Show parent
  #62
Lives for gear
 
Hollowman9's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by Spectralwaves ➡️
Well I would go for the ESQ1 myself, because Ive always wanted one.

They are not at all comparable sound wise in my opinion, apart from they are both 80s synths & they can both do pleasing bell like tones.

I don't know either well enough to say , but from what I do know is that the ESQ1 has CEM analogue filters so it is a hybrid & can produce that hybrid- with- CEM -filters sound that the Korg DW8000 can somewhat ,but with its own version of analogue filters, & the Prophet VS & Waldorf Microwave 1, all being digital oscillator based synths,with CEM analogue filters & amps.

The CZ seems to me to produce a more 'digital' refined sound , from what Ive heard, but it does sound nice.

The ESQ1 can get more raw / 80s analogy in its tones & is set up much more traditionally in its architecture than the CZ which is more like Yamahas FM in its implementation.
I'm not so sure about refined. The VZ-1 can do refined quite well but the CZ always has some grit and not just digital-like it can also sound truly analog because of the grit.
The CZ architecture bears little resemblance to Yamaha FM. The CZ architecture is closer to that of analog subtractive than to FM.
The architecture of the VZ engine is much more similar to FM than the CZs.

Soundwise PD synths are more raw and dry sounding than FM. Even when programmed to be rude FM still has a more tame, rounded tone unlike the spiky roughness of PD.
The iPD of the VZ is like FM but with more balls. It gives you several different sawtooth waves, each with a different harmonic spread, which when layered up properly can give you a big buzzy almost Oberheim-like lead sound. Then set a few modules to ring modulation for some pseudo resonance and you have a huge monster of a sound with tons of testosterone. Setting up a similar style patch in FM gives you a more feminine and polished sounding version which is also really nice but nowhere near as raw sounding.

PD and FM actually make great companions. They are different enough to compliment one another in rewarding ways. I love both.
I have a Kawai K3 which is very similar to the ESQ-1 it can't be compared with PD synthesis. They completely different animals.
From hearing the SQ-80 my friend has I would say both it and the CZ-1 are capable of sounding both very rude and polite but more polished in the SQ.

Last edited by Hollowman9; 30th January 2015 at 03:40 PM..
Old 30th January 2015 | Show parent
  #63
Lives for gear
 
3 Reviews written
🎧 10 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by SEED78 ➡️
you know full sized keyboard synths have racks?

otherwise known as 'stands'

Never heard anyone refer to stands as racks before, can see why the other guy got confused.

Keyboard stands, A-Frame stands, Shelves (inc "rack shelving"), drawers all for keyboards

"racks" to most people when talking of synths always infers a 19" rack for rack mount units but...
Old 30th January 2015
  #64
Lives for gear
 
CatManDeux's Avatar
 
🎧 5 years
Noting the CZ discussion. Should point out that the CZ1 weighs a ton. I guess it's attributable to the 5 octave velocity keyboard. But be wary of shipping charges if buying online, and remind the seller to pack it well.
Old 30th January 2015 | Show parent
  #65
Lives for gear
 
Hollowman9's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by CatManDeux ➡️
Noting the CZ discussion. Should point out that the CZ1 weighs a ton. I guess it's attributable to the 5 octave velocity keyboard. But be wary of shipping charges if buying online, and remind the seller to pack it well.
This is true. My 1st CZ-1 was shipped and the shipping was almost the same as the price I paid for the synth. The 2nd one I picked up in person and the gig bag I carried it in ripped in 2 places under the strain.
Old 31st January 2015 | Show parent
  #66
Lives for gear
 
Spectralwaves's Avatar
 
🎧 10 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hollowman9 ➡️
I'm not so sure about refined. The VZ-1 can do refined quite well but the CZ always has some grit and not just digital-like it can also sound truly analog because of the grit.
The CZ architecture bears little resemblance to Yamaha FM. The CZ architecture is closer to that of analog subtractive than to FM.
The architecture of the VZ engine is much more similar to FM than the CZs.

Soundwise PD synths are more raw and dry sounding than FM. Even when programmed to be rude FM still has a more tame, rounded tone unlike the spiky roughness of PD.
The iPD of the VZ is like FM but with more balls. It gives you several different sawtooth waves, each with a different harmonic spread, which when layered up properly can give you a big buzzy almost Oberheim-like lead sound. Then set a few modules to ring modulation for some pseudo resonance and you have a huge monster of a sound with tons of testosterone. Setting up a similar style patch in FM gives you a more feminine and polished sounding version which is also really nice but nowhere near as raw sounding.

PD and FM actually make great companions. They are different enough to compliment one another in rewarding ways. I love both.
I have a Kawai K3 which is very similar to the ESQ-1 it can't be compared with PD synthesis. They completely different animals.
From hearing the SQ-80 my friend has I would say both it and the CZ-1 are capable of sounding both very rude and polite but more polished in the SQ.
Thanks for the educating re: the CZ & VZ synths. Ive always meant to pick up a VZ10M.

Ive just listened to quite a few CZ demoes & they definitely can produce a much different range of sounds than I thought.
I always thought of the CZ sound as sort of early video game chip tunes sounding machines, especially from hearing presets in shops back in the day, I wasn't impressed, but then again not really a fair way of judging an instrument either I admit.

Some of the demoes I just heard make them sound like a more 'polite' version of a Prophet VS crossed with a Poly800 or DW8000, which I would not have imagined they could do.

I also came across your review of the CZ1 & I definitely committed the crime of comparing them to the Yamaha DX line. I won't do that again!

Your description makes the VZ sound very appealing.

A member here ,maybe ' Project Woofer' has a beautiful VZ10M demo on YouTube demonstrating a nice range of tones.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QrloWcKFHs0

Here is a stunning CZ3000 demo I found:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?x-yt-c...&v=7XGbKV6GIDo

Last edited by Spectralwaves; 31st January 2015 at 03:40 AM..
Old 31st January 2015
  #67
Lives for gear
 
🎧 5 years
I picked up the ipad app version to get my fix of Casio CZ (no room for more synths :( ). Visual editing is easy on the app and sound is pretty good too. I need to spend some more time programming it...
Old 31st January 2015
  #68
Gear Head
 
🎧 10 years
Having played both the 5000 and the 101 and programmed both extensively, I have to say the 101 always sounded 'better' to me, warmer, fuller, even though the 5000 has that chorus. I hate when people say things like I just said, and I admit I have no empirical data for that statement.

I still have my old 5000, and it served me so well for years, but I'd really like to sell it and pick up a 101. But it's just so heavy - what a hassle that would be.

Also, since VZ was mentioned, the VZ8m is a really, really great sounding architecture. It's tedious to program on that little window, I'll admit. But I always felt I could take my CZ patches and refactor them into the VZ, especially since those incredible Casio CZ 8-stage variable envelopes were carried over into the VZ's. As with the CZ's, you get one on each DCO, DCA and DCF. That's 3 X 8 stages X 2 oscillators for 48 stages! You can really get some great animation going in both the CZ and VZ worlds.

I so wish someone would implement those envelopes in another synth...
Old 31st January 2015 | Show parent
  #69
SEED78
Guest
Quote:
Originally Posted by Pro5 ➡️
Never heard anyone refer to stands as racks before, can see why the other guy got confused.

Keyboard stands, A-Frame stands, Shelves (inc "rack shelving"), drawers all for keyboards

"racks" to most people when talking of synths always infers a 19" rack for rack mount units but...

Ever so sorry guys - just to make it very clear I was very aware the dx7 is a full sized keyboard, it is after all one of the most famous synths ever!!

My stand is 3 tier, which gave it a stacky racky place in my tiny mind.
Old 31st January 2015 | Show parent
  #70
Lives for gear
 
Hollowman9's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by Spectralwaves ➡️
Thanks for the educating re: the CZ & VZ synths. Ive always meant to pick up a VZ10M.

Ive just listened to quite a few CZ demoes & they definitely can produce a much different range of sounds than I thought.
I always thought of the CZ sound as sort of early video game chip tunes sounding machines, especially from hearing presets in shops back in the day, I wasn't impressed, but then again not really a fair way of judging an instrument either I admit.

Some of the demoes I just heard make them sound like a more 'polite' version of a Prophet VS crossed with a Poly800 or DW8000, which I would not have imagined they could do.

I also came across your review of the CZ1 & I definitely committed the crime of comparing them to the Yamaha DX line. I won't do that again!

Your description makes the VZ sound very appealing.

A member here ,maybe ' Project Woofer' has a beautiful VZ10M demo on YouTube demonstrating a nice range of tones.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QrloWcKFHs0

Here is a stunning CZ3000 demo I found:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?x-yt-c...&v=7XGbKV6GIDo
Wow that is an incredibly good VZ demo. I love the percussion sounds he made. I recently have discovered how well this does drum sounds and have been working on on building a bank of them. It can do some really nice high hats! Thanks for that demo. I need to do one of my own. I'm sure it won't be as good as his but I'm proud of my patches and ought to share them to inspire others to make their own custom patches.

Thanks for reading my review of the CZ. I'm glad to hear it helps. Yes I am adamant about CZs not being compared DXs because it really is false and misleading in a way that isn't fair to either. That sort of thing leads to expectations and disappointed owners. Comparison is a double edged blade. On one hand it helps to give people an idea of something unfamiliar by contrasting to something that is familiar. On the other it leads to flaws in categorization which can be confusing.
Having both CZ and DX engines I find little common ground between them and do my best to illustrate that to others so they can make more informed decisions.
Old 31st January 2015 | Show parent
  #71
Lives for gear
 
Hollowman9's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by leMel42 ➡️
That's 3 X 8 stages X 2 oscillators for 48 stages! You can really get some great animation going in both the CZ and VZ worlds.

I so wish someone would implement those envelopes in another synth...
Another nice source of animation in the iPD engine is from setting some modules to fixed pitch with ring modulation. You get like an LFO changing PWM type effect but the LFO frequency is different on each note. Gorgeous sounding on chords when you play with glissando.
I'm not at home right now but when I get back I'll describe how to set the pertinent parameters for this effect.
Old 31st January 2015 | Show parent
  #72
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nowaysj's Avatar
 
🎧 10 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hollowman9 ➡️
Another nice source of animation in the iPD engine is from setting some modules to fixed pitch with ring modulation. You get like an LFO changing PWM type effect but the LFO frequency is different on each note. Gorgeous sounding on chords when you play with glissando.
I'm not at home right now but when I get back I'll describe how to set the pertinent parameters for this effect.
Saw a demo doing this. Sounds GOOD.
Old 31st January 2015
  #73
Lives for gear
 
🎧 5 years
Just fired mine up. Glad I did, discovered it had some old batteries that were leaking. All removed and cleaned up, no harm done.

Yes that's got quite a sound. The multistage envelops are great and they are really fast, you can do some good short bass and percussion sounds with it.
Also notice it can produce quite a sub-bass. And the saw waves are quite dirty. Detune it and it's pretty fat!
Tone stacking is good, as is solo with portmanteau so that the envs don't re-trigger.
Certainly got some dirt and some grit, quite refreshing to hear.
Just had a lot of fun playing around with it. It's really a fun little synth. Sound can defy it's humble size.

Will try the software version next to compare and see if it's useful (unless it's expensive, going to find it now).
Old 31st January 2015 | Show parent
  #74
Lives for gear
 
nowaysj's Avatar
 
🎧 10 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by LouisJB ➡️
Just fired mine up. Glad I did, discovered it had some old batteries that were leaking. All removed and cleaned up, no harm done.

Yes that's got quite a sound. The multistage envelops are great and they are really fast, you can do some good short bass and percussion sounds with it.
Also notice it can produce quite a sub-bass. And the saw waves are quite dirty. Detune it and it's pretty fat!
Tone stacking is good, as is solo with portmanteau so that the envs don't re-trigger.
Certainly got some dirt and some grit, quite refreshing to hear.
Just had a lot of fun playing around with it. It's really a fun little synth. Sound can defy it's humble size.

Will try the software version next to compare and see if it's useful (unless it's expensive, going to find it now).
Sorry, what model do you have?

And you're not helping my GAS, I'll have you know.

Old 2nd February 2015 | Show parent
  #75
Lives for gear
 
🎧 5 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by nowaysj ➡️
Sorry, what model do you have?

And you're not helping my GAS, I'll have you know.

Just the basic CZ-101. I like it because of the sound, simplicity and also it's tiny size. Same as the CZ1000 sound wise.

You get 2 osc chains with really good multi-stage envs. Each osc chain can have 2 oscillator waveforms. You can detune or combine the oscs. Or ring modulate them. There there's the tone stacking too. Makes for a pretty fat mono synth or a 4 note poly synth. Bigger models have more polyphony but I don't feel I need that, 4 notes being a bare minimum I can work with poly wise). It's a fun synth. Given it has no on-board FX, you're getting quite a good intrinsic sound, better than some more expensive synths I've used that, once you strip off the FX leaves something much less inspiring underneath it all. Going to explore mine some more, noticed it can make quite a deep sine sub bass.

It's not the pinnacle of synth engineering by any means, but this range has something unique and that's sometimes what matters really. No good having a stack of things that all sound too similar.

Will be interested to try out the virtual CZ, but having the real thing already that doesn't cost me anything, I'll start with the hardware for now.
Old 2nd February 2015 | Show parent
  #76
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robot gigante's Avatar
 
2 Reviews written
🎧 15 years
Just to add to the above, you have 4 note poly if you stack the two oscillators. If you use one osc then the polyphony is 8 note.
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