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VIRUS TI - really the ''best'' nowadays synth
Old 27th January 2013 | Show parent
  #211
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sentokan's Avatar
 
🎧 10 years
Exactlt my point.. so digital doesn't sound in some respects too different from analog.. at leadt modern one. Thing is though, that I can't find same character in good softsynths ;-) not to say they r not powerful..
Old 27th January 2013 | Show parent
  #212
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danielb's Avatar
 
🎧 10 years
I don't know which one is which.

I do think that the Virus has an exceptionally nice square wave for a VA; much better than its raw sawtooth wave and much better than that e.g. on the Radias.
Old 27th January 2013 | Show parent
  #213
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jimmyklane's Avatar
 
4 Reviews written
🎧 5 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by Oden ➑️
Dunno which is which, but I prefer the first. The first overtone sounds too loud on the second.

I think the first may actually be the virus, becausse the highs on it are not that overpowering. But not sure.

Anyway, testing a filter bass patch would be more interesting.
Fair enough... The filter gives it away to those in the know... I DID use the Moog filter emulation in the Virus but it only sounds different ...not like a Moog!
Old 27th January 2013 | Show parent
  #214
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jimmyklane's Avatar
 
4 Reviews written
🎧 5 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by danielb ➑️
I don't know which one is which.

I do think that the Virus has an exceptionally nice square wave for a VA; much better than its raw sawtooth wave and much better than that e.g. on the Radias.
That's why I picked the square wave!
Old 27th January 2013 | Show parent
  #215
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4 Reviews written
🎧 5 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by sentokan ➑️
Exactlt my point.. so digital doesn't sound in some respects too different from analog.. at leadt modern one. Thing is though, that I can't find same character in good softsynths ;-) not to say they r not powerful..
I would say, in all fairness, my choices "rigged" the test a bit... Fully open filter with no envelope, square wave instead of the more harmonically complex saw wave, matched levels (many of these comparisons are off)....

But still, Oden says its the first harmonic that's too loud in the second.... I say there's a hole in the low-mids/mids in the second one. At first I spent an hour trying to get them to match exactly, and when I couldn't (I got very close with distortion!) I went back to my straight square wave patch on the Virus and the calibration patch on the Moog.

They ARE similar.... But the differences that are there would change what parts I wrote on top of them.... One of the synths has a very strong set of 2nd,3rd,4th,and 5th harmonics (3&5 in the square).
Old 27th January 2013 | Show parent
  #216
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🎧 10 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by jimmyklane ➑️
I would say, in all fairness, my choices "rigged" the test a bit... Fully open filter with no envelope, square wave instead of the more harmonically complex saw wave, matched levels (many of these comparisons are off)....

But still, Oden says its the first harmonic that's too loud in the second.... I say there's a hole in the low-mids/mids in the second one. At first I spent an hour trying to get them to match exactly, and when I couldn't (I got very close with distortion!) I went back to my straight square wave patch on the Virus and the calibration patch on the Moog.

They ARE similar.... But the differences that are there would change what parts I wrote on top of them.... One of the synths has a very strong set of 2nd,3rd,4th,and 5th harmonics (3&5 in the square).

So which is which?

And please put that filter bass patch up, I want to know what that mythical moog bass is all about as non owner.

I think the 2nd is the moog. There is this punch on the first note that doesn't sound very virusy. Maybe just an editing error though. + I don't THINK the first overtone (correction: it's the 2nd overtone of square wave) is that loud on the virus.
Old 27th January 2013 | Show parent
  #217
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🎧 10 years
second one is cleaner
Old 27th January 2013 | Show parent
  #218
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peteblues's Avatar
 
🎧 10 years
"looking" at the waveforms, the second one is the Virus
Old 27th January 2013
  #219
Here for the gear
 
🎧 5 years
Wow, lot of debate going on here. Many different opinions and ideas.

At the end of the day, what a synthesizer can do is largely dependent on the user. As always, there is never the "ultimate" synthesizer.

If there was, it would be too complex & expensive, not to mention dizzying. You'd be too overwhelmed to actually be able to program the sounds you're intending to.

As for my opinion, synthesizers (digital or analog) need a *hardware filter* to sound full.
Soon as you tack on a hardware filter to a digital synthesizer, it starts to become alive as well (PPG Wave, Prophet VS, etc). I'm surprised not many folks stress the importance of a quality filter. Software can't do filters very well.
Old 27th January 2013 | Show parent
  #220
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🎧 10 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by Derp ➑️
It's a mixture of option anxiety
this

theres alot of guys on this forum that would MAKE MORE MUSIC if their only synth was a TI
Old 27th January 2013 | Show parent
  #221
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Derp's Avatar
 
🎧 10 years
Virus has a slightly rounder tone, so I'm gonna guess that the first square is the Voyager and the second is the Virus.

Quote:
Originally Posted by gr8ape ➑️
theres alot of guys on this forum that would MAKE MORE MUSIC if their only synth was a TI
Very true, and as a guy that admittedly has way more synths than he really needs, this was a very hard lesson for me to learn and admit to myself.
Old 27th January 2013 | Show parent
  #222
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synthguy's Avatar
 
🎧 10 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by raymangold22 ➑️
Software can't do filters very well.
Erm... that was true. Until the birth of the Roland JD-800.

Quote:
Originally Posted by gr8ape ➑️
theres alot of guys on this forum that would MAKE MORE MUSIC if their only synth was a
Kronos. heh

For myself, anyhow. If all I had was a Virus, I'd only be programming every once in a while. And saving up for a Kronos, or Jupiter-80. Is a dreaded rompler luuuver.
Old 27th January 2013 | Show parent
  #223
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Derp's Avatar
 
🎧 10 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by synthguy ➑️
Is a dreaded rompler luuuver.


J/K, I had a Fantom XR for a while and while I absolutely hated how thing sounded, I have to admit that I got a lot of work done very quickly with that thing.
Old 28th January 2013 | Show parent
  #224
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jimmyklane's Avatar
 
4 Reviews written
🎧 5 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by peteblues ➑️
"looking" at the waveforms, the second one is the Virus
Smart man! 2nd one IS the Virus.... Many here called it, but remember, I didn't try and hide it!

To the poster that suggested edit errors, that's not the case, what I did was max out the "punch" parameter in the Virus...that's the big transient you hear.

I'll create and post a "filter bass" within the next 2-3 days... That's sort of a vague category though, so I'm going to use the Moog patch in the song I posted earlier in this thread and recreate it on the Virus unless one of you guys gives me a song or patch example (as in either a Virus TI Patch to match on the Moog or a Moog Slim/Little Phatty patch to match on the TI)

For convenience, the "Filter Bass" I'll remake is in this song:

https://soundcloud.com/jimmyklane/fl...an-aeroplane-1

Unless somebody posts either a patch for one of the synths or a song for me to attempt to recreate!
Old 28th January 2013 | Show parent
  #225
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jimmyklane's Avatar
 
4 Reviews written
🎧 5 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by raymangold22 ➑️
Wow, lot of debate going on here. Many different opinions and ideas.

At the end of the day, what a synthesizer can do is largely dependent on the user. As always, there is never the "ultimate" synthesizer.

If there was, it would be too complex & expensive, not to mention dizzying. You'd be too overwhelmed to actually be able to program the sounds you're intending to.

As for my opinion, synthesizers (digital or analog) need a *hardware filter* to sound full.
Soon as you tack on a hardware filter to a digital synthesizer, it starts to become alive as well (PPG Wave, Prophet VS, etc). I'm surprised not many folks stress the importance of a quality filter. Software can't do filters very well.
The problem, ray, is that (at least for the Virus TI range) you'd need 80-120 analog filters.... That would mean chip filters(i.e. Prophet 08, Mopho, etc) as opposed to discrete filters... I've heard people say that filter-on-a-chip isn't all that great, and that you get pretty close in software.... I personally would LOVE to see a Zero-Delay filter, (like uHE DIVA) where you get incredibly close to analog.... And the higher the sample rate, the better it gets! Even if it made my Snow a single part-single voice monosynth.... I would welcome that option.... When I post my "filter bass" example, you'll hear why.... The Virus is SO MUCH MORE than an analog-wannabe!!! But people often judge it on its VA specs alone, and compared to my analogs, it is quite different, some would say "not as good", but I'll stop at different.

As this discussion has been raging, I started a new track with the virus and added the Moog and DMX as bass/drums.... I ended up trying the Legacy MS-20(NAMM FEVER! ) and finally to the Juno.... Same basic settings, same outboard effects, but the virus keys were "mushy", despite 2 HOURS spent playing around...... Took it out of the VA role, and it shined on some nice PPG-like pads!

IMO, all a matter of programming ability(I'm no guru, but no schmuck either) and application.... To keep some semblance of original topic, if my Virus didn't hold its own in my studio, I'd sell it for 800-850 and buy something else... Instead, like a true gearslut, I'll keep my Virus and buy a Prophet 12+MS-20mini this year!!!
Old 28th January 2013 | Show parent
  #226
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UltimateOutsider's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by jimmyklane ➑️
I've only got a Snow, but I regularly get all four parts with everything I want.... The first thing I did when I got it was max it out with 2 Hypersaws maxed out with 8x unison, and chorus/delay into a tight timed reverb..and the "Moog" filter... Supposedly polyphonic, as soon as I played the second note I lost 7 unison voices on the first note, and the 3rd note cut both off completely.... So if you're making silly patches like that and expecting polyphony, then it's not going to happen....
The Snow has half the DSP of the other current models but only offers 1/4 the parts. The TI2s can easily handle 8 parts; I just think 16 is over-selling a bit.

I started a new track last night and I decided to take a "design-as-you-go" approach (versus using a GM instrument or Nexus2 to throw down placeholder patches), so I spent a few minutes considering my options for quickly writing patches as I added new parts. I ended up going with the Virus. I still have no freaking clue what I'm doing when I try to use the physical interface, but Virus Control is an absolute breeze to program.
Old 28th January 2013
  #227
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jnurp's Avatar
 
1 Review written
🎧 10 years
idk I have had a bunch of synths over the years and the one that has not been on the spam is my Virus ti2. I have sold an A6, Voyager, Xpander, Slimphatty, M3, Radias, Fantom-s (which i miss the most believe it or not), Juno 106....a few more I think too. The Virus has been with me for 3 years now and I will do everything I can to keep it forever. I actually take for granted how amazing and inspiring it is to program and play. Yeah it doesnt sound as good as an xpander or Voyager but man it is so much fun to play. My .02.
Old 28th January 2013
  #228
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🎧 5 years
The physical interface is pretty awesome too. The TI has 16 parts because MIDI can address 16 channels. No one said you have to stuff every channel with the hungriest of patches. But there's always some idiot who whines because they push it until it hits its limits.

B
Old 28th January 2013
  #229
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djanthonyw's Avatar
 
🎧 10 years
I would rather have z3ta any day over a Virus. I used to have a Virus Classic as well as the Virus PoCo.
Old 28th January 2013 | Show parent
  #230
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UltimateOutsider's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by HaveItAll ➑️
But there's always some idiot who whines because they push it until it hits its limits.
Good thing there are passive-aggressive creeps on the Internet to keep those idiots in check!
Old 29th January 2013 | Show parent
  #231
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synthguy's Avatar
 
🎧 10 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by Derp ➑️
I had a Fantom XR for a while and while I absolutely hated how thing sounded, I have to admit that I got a lot of work done very quickly with that thing.
You "hated" how it sounded... period, or when you tried to program it?? Am puzzled.

I do sympathize with you because I fought a Fantom X for a few days trying to make it into a VA because it was the only thing I had available, then surrendered and dragged out some of my other synths which were much happier playing stand-in fake analog. Letting the Fantom be itself and programming "Fantom" patches, it shined very brightly.

Quote:
Originally Posted by jnurp ➑️
idk I have had a bunch of synths over the years and the one that has not been on the spam is my Virus ti2. I have sold an A6, Voyager, Xpander, Slimphatty, M3, Radias, Fantom-s (which i miss the most believe it or not), Juno 106....a few more I think too. The Virus has been with me for 3 years now and I will do everything I can to keep it forever. I actually take for granted how amazing and inspiring it is to program and play. Yeah it doesnt sound as good as an xpander or Voyager but man it is so much fun to play. My .02.
Now this puzzles me too. I mean, I can understand if you're cash strapped and need to pare stuff down. For me, the Virus is bang for buck one of the best synths around. But it's because it has a great all around sound to me. If I had an Xpander and Andy and they sounded better - which wouldn't surprise me, I'd drop the Virus first. Sound is crucial to me.

Because I let synths be themselves now, having a tidy pile of choice things to choose from, I don't have to force as many synths to be something they may not want to be. But from what I remember of the Virus sound from B to TI2, it has such a broad character spectrum, I doubt there are too many sonic areas it couldn't fit into.
Old 29th January 2013 | Show parent
  #232
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jimmyklane's Avatar
 
4 Reviews written
🎧 5 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by UltimateOutsider ➑️
Good thing there are passive-aggressive creeps on the Internet to keep those idiots in check!
and the quote came from "HAVE IT ALL"... IRONIC

(no offence at all intended, H.I.A...seriously)

I also have a Virus B, and I've used all 16 parts... where I think Access went wrong is in giving a RANGE for polyphony..... the B was very sensible in giving us 24 voices that were divided by Unison, and that's that... with careful planning and part selection you could expect a song to perform exactly the same every time..... with the TI range, there IS a difference in how things are handled...

to those who are super upset about the 16 parts thing: are you making music with JUST your Virus? what are you DOING with all those simultaneous parts? I mean, if you're trying to layer patches, I'm pretty sure that most synths... hell, most ROMplers will choke with 16 parts played at once!

take away reverb, osc-3, and unison, and i'm pretty sure you can load up 16 parts and play them in an arrangement... not every sound can be HUGE, or they're all small... arrangement 101 (mixing 101, too!)...This isn't directed at you, UltimateOutsider, merely those who are feeling somehow "ripped off"... the thing is, i only have a Snow and a B, so I can't really PROVE my supposition...so it's only an internet opinion!
Old 29th January 2013 | Show parent
  #233
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jimmyklane's Avatar
 
4 Reviews written
🎧 5 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by synthguy ➑️
You "hated" how it sounded... period, or when you tried to program it?? Am puzzled.

I do sympathize with you because I fought a Fantom X for a few days trying to make it into a VA because it was the only thing I had available, then surrendered and dragged out some of my other synths which were much happier playing stand-in fake analog. Letting the Fantom be itself and programming "Fantom" patches, it shined very brightly.


Now this puzzles me too. I mean, I can understand if you're cash strapped and need to pare stuff down. For me, the Virus is bang for buck one of the best synths around. But it's because it has a great all around sound to me. If I had an Xpander and Andy and they sounded better - which wouldn't surprise me, I'd drop the Virus first. Sound is crucial to me.

Because I let synths be themselves now, having a tidy pile of choice things to choose from, I don't have to force as many synths to be something they may not want to be. But from what I remember of the Virus sound from B to TI2, it has such a broad character spectrum, I doubt there are too many sonic areas it couldn't fit into.
For me, the Virus always wants to be aggressive when i program it... I have a lot of trouble getting CONVINCING smooth leads and basses... pads and filller are another matter all together, and that's why i still have MY Virus. It shines in the mid-range.
Old 29th January 2013
  #234
Gear Maniac
 
🎧 5 years
were i be coming from tje virus is part of santeria an something must be avoided lest th bone is painted at you.

i trying to like this sound but is covered in the verbration an echo an no natral soiunds.
the dub echo needs best tape to come alive but my dsi evoluter poly did good try at this but my son did kil this synth with dirty bangwater
Old 29th January 2013 | Show parent
  #235
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synthguy's Avatar
 
🎧 10 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by jimmyklane ➑️
For me, the Virus always wants to be aggressive when i program it... I have a lot of trouble getting CONVINCING smooth leads and basses... pads and filller are another matter all together
Hmm... I'll have to see if I can arrange some time with a Virus sometime soon and check on this.

People like marino and Clusterchord who either own or have owned half the analogs ever made have described the Virus waves as bright buzzy digital sounding monsters. This would be good for brash techno sounds, and the Virus is one of the premier techno synths, as well as bright buzzy leads, basses and acidic pads. But I don't recall the Virus C I used sounding all that bright necessarily, at least in the way a Nord Lead or Memorymoog is. If anything, I found the filters to be rather darkish, and good for those smooth leads and such.

There is the slightest possibility I'll be able to drag together a few choice synth pieces in a couple of months, a Virus among them. I'll have to see how they compare to some of the analogs.
Old 29th January 2013 | Show parent
  #236
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jimmyklane's Avatar
 
4 Reviews written
🎧 5 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by synthguy ➑️
Hmm... I'll have to see if I can arrange some time with a Virus sometime soon and check on this.

People like marino and Clusterchord who either own or have owned half the analogs ever made have described the Virus waves as bright buzzy digital sounding monsters. This would be good for brash techno sounds, and the Virus is one of the premier techno synths, as well as bright buzzy leads, basses and acidic pads. But I don't recall the Virus C I used sounding all that bright necessarily, at least in the way a Nord Lead or Memorymoog is. If anything, I found the filters to be rather darkish, and good for those smooth leads and such.

There is the slightest possibility I'll be able to drag together a few choice synth pieces in a couple of months, a Virus among them. I'll have to see how they compare to some of the analogs.
Check the comparison i posted a few pages up.... you'll hear a Moog and a Virus... the Virus has a "hole" in it's low-mids somewhere, and the VA part of it sometimes doesn't convince me.... I was making a different type of music when I purchased my Virus (Dubstep-ish, aggressive music) but now I've moved back to more funky, organic type tones... You CAN make "smooth" sounds with the Virus, but for me it's easier to reach for an analog. You're right about the "dark" part... the Virus tends to roll off a bit when it's clocked at 44.1... better when moved up to 48kHz... (different topic altogether!) I'm positive that it is my deficiency as a programmer...as Howard Scarr doesn't seem to have much trouble!!! When I attempt to program an Oberheim OBX patch... or a Moog Source/Slim Phatty patch....they fall down in the mix... in isolation, they definitely get "close enough for rock n roll", but somehow they lose something... this happens to me EVERY TIME I try and make the Virus act like anything other than the Virus... I've said it a few times in this thread: anyone here that considers themselves an "expert"...or even "power user" of the Virus, PLEASE send me a few patches... I know most of the tricks to making great patches on my analogs (mono or poly) but they don't seem to translate the same, and I'm always feeling like I don't "speak Virus"... does that make sense? I love the wavetables... i love heavily-filtered hypersaw pads(so they dont sound like a trance anthem!)... but I have a lot of trouble producing basses and leads that aren't aggressive in some way. maybe I feel compelled to USE the FX1-FX2 pages too much? I often try and use the "Vintage 1(2 or 3)" characters as opposed to analog boost, or (God forbid) OFF

Probably I should pick my way through the 6000+ presets I've got for this thing and load up a full bank of really great analog emulations, and then study them the way that I've done with all of my analog synths.... I've just always expected that everything I know about analog synths should automatically translate to the Virus, with perhaps some limitations (i.e. high-rez patches won't sound "real").... hmmmm...

anyone have any other ideas, or some patches for me to dissect? anyone getting different results? Who here "speaks Virus"?
Old 29th January 2013
  #237
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playstation's Avatar
 
🎧 10 years
Autobahn HS - Howard Scarr preset sounds totally moogy to me.
Old 29th January 2013 | Show parent
  #238
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Derp's Avatar
 
🎧 10 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by playstation ➑️
Autobahn HS - Howard Scarr preset sounds totally moogy to me.
Sounds kinda honky/saxxy to me.
Old 29th January 2013 | Show parent
  #239
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synthguy's Avatar
 
🎧 10 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by jimmyklane ➑️
When I attempt to program an Oberheim OBX patch... or a Moog Source/Slim Phatty patch....they fall down in the mix... in isolation, they definitely get "close enough for rock n roll", but somehow they lose something... this happens to me EVERY TIME I try and make the Virus act like anything other than the Virus...
This is one thing that I may be blessed with in that I don't have a small arsenal of real analogs on hand that make a VA sound like a stunt double in comparison.

Still, I have been around Jupiters of all flavors, Prophets, Moogs, ARPs, Obies and so on. I check demo tracks on occasion to see if my memory of them is sharp, and I'm usually remembering them right. I've been able to do a lot of programming on a whole music store's worth of digital synths this side of a Nord Modular G2, and I usually don't have any trouble getting something to work in a mix just fine whether a VA or rompler. Now again, no OBXs or Memorymoogs on hand to compare, which are getting increasingly rare, so I'm losing hope of just bumping into one. Plus, I am a recording engineer, arranger and producer so I may have an advantage over the average keyboardist.

When I did have an analog to compare, it just sounded slightly different, nowhere near as drastic as the difference between an OB-1, Mini D and an Odyssey. And again, I wasn't really doing anything outlandish or heavily effected, just the kinds of old school synth sounds used since the good ol' days of the 70s and 80s.

In your case, since you do have analogs handy, maybe it's really no big deal. Like I did when I had to program a Fantom, let the Virus be itself and don't fret. On the other hand, you sound like a pocket scientist like me and want to know what the deal is. It would be a good idea to run through the presets and listen to them - they do have categories, right? I remember the C having categories, and I did inherit a massive manual at some point. I should dig it out and read it. Check a bunch of patches, and if something sounds right, open it up and see what the deal is. It may have treble boost or something to help give it highs, or it could just be well programmed. If I get hold of that Virus any time soon, I'll compare it to some toys I have and share my opinion with the class.
Old 29th January 2013 | Show parent
  #240
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jimmyklane's Avatar
 
4 Reviews written
🎧 5 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by synthguy ➑️
This is one thing that I may be blessed with in that I don't have a small arsenal of real analogs on hand that make a VA sound like a stunt double in comparison.

Still, I have been around Jupiters of all flavors, Prophets, Moogs, ARPs, Obies and so on. I check demo tracks on occasion to see if my memory of them is sharp, and I'm usually remembering them right. I've been able to do a lot of programming on a whole music store's worth of digital synths this side of a Nord Modular G2, and I usually don't have any trouble getting something to work in a mix just fine whether a VA or rompler. Now again, no OBXs or Memorymoogs on hand to compare, which are getting increasingly rare, so I'm losing hope of just bumping into one. Plus, I am a recording engineer, arranger and producer so I may have an advantage over the average keyboardist.

When I did have an analog to compare, it just sounded slightly different, nowhere near as drastic as the difference between an OB-1, Mini D and an Odyssey. And again, I wasn't really doing anything outlandish or heavily effected, just the kinds of old school synth sounds used since the good ol' days of the 70s and 80s.

In your case, since you do have analogs handy, maybe it's really no big deal. Like I did when I had to program a Fantom, let the Virus be itself and don't fret. On the other hand, you sound like a pocket scientist like me and want to know what the deal is. It would be a good idea to run through the presets and listen to them - they do have categories, right? I remember the C having categories, and I did inherit a massive manual at some point. I should dig it out and read it. Check a bunch of patches, and if something sounds right, open it up and see what the deal is. It may have treble boost or something to help give it highs, or it could just be well programmed. If I get hold of that Virus any time soon, I'll compare it to some toys I have and share my opinion with the class.
Something a bit funny: I've been saying how my Virus example above has a "low-mid hole"... It's a SQUARE WAVE... It's SUPPOSED to have "holes". A square wave bass part should be low-mid deficient because that's where the 2nd harmonic would lie! just means that the Moog's square is less than ideal (as we could guess since its analog!).... So, I got a nice little laugh at my own expense when I realized that this morning.... However, my point still stands. I took 5 minutes before leaving for work this morning and played a single-osc saw wave from both synths and found the "beef" missing... It's not that the virus has no bass, not at all, but the waveform(and thus the harmonic distribution) are quite different... The Moog somehow curves into the drop-off whilst the Virus is the saw wave like we imagine it... Pretty much perfect.

You said "stunt double"... Very apt description.... It's not ALL VAs I have this issue with... I have recreated my Juno patches 1:1 with DIVA... I really think that even after years, I just don't "speak Virus" fluently. I'm going to spend a boring weekend going thru all the patches(yes there ARE categories!) and dissecting them.... That will tell me where the 2% I'm missing lies... It's not like I'm WAY off, that's what's so frustrating....hell, I'm the guy that reviewed the Snow here at GS...I WANT to love this synth through and through!

Synthguy, I'd be happy to read whatever you share, thank you!
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