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Very strange phase issue - SINGLE mono signal changes volume + tone
Old 22nd January 2013
  #1
Here for the gear
 
๐ŸŽง 10 years
Very strange phase issue - SINGLE mono signal changes volume + tone

Hi,

a very strange thing occured to me just now.

I have an electronic kick drum track, mono, soloed(!).
One sample throughout.

Looping one bar of it.

Playing around with the phase with a 360 degree alignment tool.

Now audible changes in tone / frequency response occur, depending on the phase setting. I know that, even as a single signal, that can have to do something with the speakers, since phase changes the direction of the cone movement - also leading to different room response. No big deal.

But - also the volume changes, IN THE DAW! I run SPAN right after the phase alignment tool and it clearly indicates volume changes up to 2dB in different positions!!

How can this happen?
Its mono, soloed and there is definitely nothing running parallel.

cheers
Old 22nd January 2013
  #2
Lives for gear
 
๐ŸŽง 10 years
Even though it's just the kick, there are still many frequencies that make up the signal. You're ****ing with the phase, so naturally different frequencies are sliding around relative to one another, which statistically pretty much has to lead to either an increase or decrease of the overall level.
Old 22nd January 2013
  #3
Here for the gear
 
๐ŸŽง 10 years
Ah, thanks, that makes sense.
I thought, phase aligning means all frequencies would be shifted equally.
Good to know.

So the effect would be reproducible on other systems, right?
So that it makes sense to incorporate the "perfect phase" setting as I hear it in my room into my mixing process?
To lay the best possible foundation for the kick to start with?
Old 23rd January 2013 | Show parent
  #4
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acreil's Avatar
 
๐ŸŽง 10 years
I think what you're noticing is that the crest factor is changing. The RMS level is constant but the peaks can change.

Quote:
Originally Posted by loopdrummer โžก๏ธ
I thought, phase aligning means all frequencies would be shifted equally.
Shifting all phases by the same amount will change the waveform. Shifting them all equally in time will preserve the waveform, but that's just a delay.

Quote:
So that it makes sense to incorporate the "perfect phase" setting as I hear it in my room into my mixing process?
To lay the best possible foundation for the kick to start with?
The way you're using it (not mixing multiple signals), I think it's only going to have a mild effect on timbre and transients. It's not really a big deal. Set it to whatever sounds best. If you want to maximize volume, set it to whatever makes the lowest peak level. That's not really how phase alignment tools are meant to be used, as you're not actually aligning anything, but there are other phase shift plugins and things intended to sculpt bass transients, etc. that do more or less the same thing.
Old 24th January 2013
  #5
Here for the gear
 
๐ŸŽง 10 years
Thank you. I used an oscilloscope and you're absolutely right, only the peak changes.
Interesting way to craft the transient and relate it to the body of the signal! Almost like a transient designer.

cheers
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