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What secondhand gear prices will suffer the most after NAMM 2013?
Old 26th January 2013 | Show parent
  #91
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Stevism's Avatar
 
6 Reviews written
🎧 5 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by aleric51 ➡️
id definitely say used slim and little phattys will be cheaper
agreed! i think it's starting now...from a quick glance on ebay it looks like slim phatty sales / bidding have nearly come to a halt, similar to little phatties....

gonna keep an eye on this one and make a move when people get desperate for cash for their new analog synth....
Old 26th January 2013
  #92
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dionysiananarchy's Avatar
 
3 Reviews written
🎧 5 years
a lot of the time people need to feel a bit of justification with a purchase, the new ms20 might take a lot of that away, with the extra features it will be even harder.... unless its a collector,,,,,, but as people do, they will the new doesnt sound as good, surprised i havent seen it already, but then again i am sure it has happened somewhere,,,,,
Old 26th January 2013
  #93
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dionysiananarchy's Avatar
 
3 Reviews written
🎧 5 years
seems like the point of the mopho and boomstar, has faded,,,, a while back the boomstar was a great deal if it came,,, doesnt have that feeling anymore, at least to me,
Old 26th January 2013
  #94
Gear Nut
 
Xtinct's Avatar
 
🎧 10 years
Yea...I kinda feel the same way. Oh, SE...if only you released your elegant boomstar as originally planned, you could have made some money.
Old 26th January 2013 | Show parent
  #95
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kpsiegel's Avatar
 
🎧 5 years
OK, how about one not so obvious....The DSI Tempest.

What you say? How does anything effect that at all? All fair but my thesis is that the new Prophet 12 that is coming out is going to tax the already very stretched software development team at DSI and the Tempest OS, which already is a frustration for a lot of users, is just not going to be updated at a rate which will satisfy existing customers. I think people will start to get even more annoyed and dump them more than is already happening. The market will not soak up this excess because that same market already knows about the bugs and missing features.

For the record, I am not a Tempest user or hater by any means and I think DSI is an admirable company. It is just hard to stretch in too many directions without something giving. OK...fire away
Old 26th January 2013
  #96
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Nigel99's Avatar
 
🎧 10 years
Who knows? It could bring the price of the original way down...

If Korg have the tone intact and haven't screwed up anything, I would buy an new unit with USB, MIDI, warranty etc all day long over a possibly unreliable original.

Would I like to have the original flava? Sure. Tho only out of interest and if it was cheap. It would nowhere near be a priority for me.
Old 26th January 2013
  #97
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steveswisher's Avatar
 
🎧 5 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by kpsiegel ➡️
OK, how about one not so obvious....The DSI Tempest.

What you say? How does anything effect that at all? All fair but my thesis is that the new Prophet 12 that is coming out is going to tax the already very stretched software development team at DSI and the Tempest OS, which already is a frustration for a lot of users, is just not going to be updated at a rate which will satisfy existing customers. I think people will start to get even more annoyed and dump them more than is already happening. The market will not soak up this excess because that same market already knows about the bugs and missing features.

For the record, I am not a Tempest user or hater by any means and I think DSI is an admirable company. It is just hard to stretch in too many directions without something giving. OK...fire away
Wishful thinking. Don't get me wrong I wish it too. I don't think Tempest prices are going anywhere anytime soon. The Prophet 12 won't have any impact on it. They're too different to have any affect on one another.
Old 26th January 2013 | Show parent
  #98
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kpsiegel's Avatar
 
🎧 5 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by steveswisher ➡️
Wishful thinking. Don't get me wrong I wish it too. I don't think Tempest prices are going anywhere anytime soon. The Prophet 12 won't have any impact on it. They're too different to have any affect on one another.
Of course they are different but my opinion was based on the resources of the development team which is shared between the products. So, while the products are different, the developers are not and the prioritization of development may cause the Tempest OS and, by implication, its users to suffer.

I ran a lot of software development teams and this stuff definitely happens. I certainly hope I am wrong for the sake of DSI and all the Tempest customers out there. I am not trying to poach a cheap Tempest.
Old 26th January 2013
  #99
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steveswisher's Avatar
 
🎧 5 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by kpsiegel ➡️
Of course they are different but my opinion was based on the resources of the development team which is shared between the products. So, while the products are different, the developers are not and the prioritization of development may cause the Tempest OS and, by implication, its users to suffer.

I ran a lot of software development teams and this stuff definitely happens. I certainly hope I am wrong for the sake of DSI and all the Tempest customers out there. I am not trying to poach a cheap Tempest.
I hope you're right. And I'd love to get a cheap tempest!
Old 26th January 2013
  #100
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Starspawn's Avatar
 
🎧 5 years
I think most secondhand prices (not the all time top synths) will drop a little during the year because we are beginning to se better alternatives people are willing to drop their 2nd/3rd synths for.
So more stuff on market equals lower prices.
Not much lower, but some, and I dont think prices will rise anymore on medium analogs.
Old 26th January 2013 | Show parent
  #101
Gear Maniac
 
🎧 5 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by Stevism ➡️
agreed! i think it's starting now...from a quick glance on ebay it looks like slim phatty sales / bidding have nearly come to a halt, similar to little phatties....

gonna keep an eye on this one and make a move when people get desperate for cash for their new analog synth....
good plan! maybe the minotaur will come down too. i already have the slim and its dope!
Old 26th January 2013 | Show parent
  #102
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natrixgli's Avatar
 
🎧 10 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by kpsiegel ➡️
Of course they are different but my opinion was based on the resources of the development team which is shared between the products. So, while the products are different, the developers are not and the prioritization of development may cause the Tempest OS and, by implication, its users to suffer.

I ran a lot of software development teams and this stuff definitely happens. I certainly hope I am wrong for the sake of DSI and all the Tempest customers out there. I am not trying to poach a cheap Tempest.
I think there might be a few extra Tempests on eBay if Chris doesn't keep pace with development, but so far he seems committed to both. Apparently the two share a decent amount of code, so hopefully that means (particularly MIDI) enhancements will benefit both instruments.

However while I feel there may be an initial bump in secondhand Tempests available, I don't see the price dropping. It's still an amazing instrument and it's still a very GAS-worthy machine. So while owners who troll the DSI forums might have a bit of a fit, normal people who just want to bang out analog beats will remain happy to scoop them up for ~$1500-1600 each.
Old 26th January 2013
  #103
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J# Minor's Avatar
 
🎧 10 years
I think most all used stuff will get a bit cheaper, except for the obvious 'holy grails' (JP8, Wave, etc.). People will dump their old stuff to buy new stuff. More supply and less demand. It makes it even easier for those of us who tend to buy cheap old stuff.
Old 26th January 2013 | Show parent
  #104
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GeorgeHayduke's Avatar
 
🎧 10 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by golden beers ➡️
if it makes you feel any better the new version is DCO
It's VCO.

It has an auto-tuning circuit.
Old 26th January 2013 | Show parent
  #105
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Apprendista's Avatar
 
🎧 10 years
The P12 looks like it makes the Waldorf Q+ redundant and reduces the XT(k) from the top tier of digital classics to a poor man's version of it.
Old 26th January 2013 | Show parent
  #106
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kpsiegel's Avatar
 
🎧 5 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by Apprendista ➡️
The P12 looks like it makes the Waldorf Q+ redundant and reduces the XT(k) from the top tier of digital classics to a poor man's version of it.
I am guessing you don't have either an XTk or a Q+. This makes no sense whatsoever to me.
Old 26th January 2013 | Show parent
  #107
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Lotus Voltage's Avatar
 
🎧 5 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by Apprendista ➡️
The P12 looks like it makes the Waldorf Q+ redundant and reduces the XT(k) from the top tier of digital classics to a poor man's version of it.

No it doesn't. The Waldorf oscillators and filters have a completely different sound.
Old 26th January 2013 | Show parent
  #108
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Apprendista's Avatar
 
🎧 10 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by kpsiegel ➡️
I am guessing you don't have either an XTk or a Q+. This makes no sense whatsoever to me.
I have an XT. From looking at the specs of the P12 I'm sure I could do everything the XT does and more with it, except the external audio processing.
Old 26th January 2013 | Show parent
  #109
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Lotus Voltage's Avatar
 
🎧 5 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by Apprendista ➡️
I have an XT. From looking at the specs of the P12 I'm sure I could do everything the XT does and more with it, except the external audio processing.
The Waldorf uses Waldorf's wavetables as oscillators. The Prophet 12 does not. And Waldorf filters don't sound anything like Dave Smith Instruments filters, completely different character. Waldorf also has a much greater range of filter options.

Specs don't tell you anything about the character of a synth.
Old 26th January 2013
  #110
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🎧 10 years
I see the modern cheap monos all taking a hit especially the Moogs, but I predict entry level vintage analog polys will see significantly increased demand (from newbies), as well as vintage monos, for those looking for something different from everyone else (both long time users and newbies expanding their setup). When that peak comes, I will probably move a good deal of my collection.
Old 26th January 2013 | Show parent
  #111
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seen-da-sizer's Avatar
 
🎧 10 years
I declare the first victim of the new MS-20 mini! It is the not so old Korg Legacy controller, which in the past got some top dollars on the bay, and did not show up that often for sale. Now there are several ones on sale.
Old 26th January 2013
  #112
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Disease Factory's Avatar
Studio Electronic lost their window to compete by dragging their knuckles on the pavement.

I hate to say it too cause i love those guys, but come on. It should been out last summer. If it had, this new sub phatty and minibrute would not of had a chance. Now its Boomstar that is out in the cold cause i am pre ordering my Sub Phatty, and i bought a minibrute in the mean time, i have tours lined up and lps to make this year and i want new tools, they missed my boat this year, maybe next year i will buy the boomstar arp filter model to go with all my other gear!!!

The synths to take the big price cuts in the used markets are anything moog. Korg radius, kord r3, mopho, and all the people buuying U-HE Diva for bass, when it pales so hard to real hardware bass. Nothing like analog filter and analog envs to snap and sound musical in a way that software just doesn't cut it down there in the low end with its digital envs and filters.
Old 26th January 2013 | Show parent
  #113
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kpsiegel's Avatar
 
🎧 5 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by Apprendista ➡️
I have an XT. From looking at the specs of the P12 I'm sure I could do everything the XT does and more with it, except the external audio processing.
Hopefully you noticed that your XT has an 8 stage loopable wave table envelope and I see nothing remotely like that in the new DSI synth. This is a major feature for designing sounds. You also can have up to 30 voice polyphony with your XT. You also have a greater variety of filters. I also think that, without knowing the complete modulation capabilities of the DSI, that you can just dismiss it as an XT replacement since the XT (and the Q/Q+) have tremendous modulation abilities. Not sure if the DSI synth will allow you to load your own wavetables like the XT/XTk either.

As for the comparison to the Q+, it has a great sequencer and arpeggiator. It also has a minimum of 16 voices if you use the analog filters and way more than that if you use a combination of analog and digital filters (which don't exist on the DSI synth).

I think the DSI synth looks very promising but as an owner of a Q+ and a couple of XTk's I don't see any way it is a replacement. Hopefully, it will be a worthy companion to either or both of them though.
Old 26th January 2013 | Show parent
  #114
Gear Addict
 
Apprendista's Avatar
 
🎧 10 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by kpsiegel ➡️
Hopefully you noticed that your XT has an 8 stage loopable wave table envelope and I see nothing remotely like that in the new DSI synth. This is a major feature for designing sounds. You also can have up to 30 voice polyphony with your XT. You also have a greater variety of filters.
I personally have yet to need more than three envelope stages, and the distinctive filter modes are the ones that combine a waveshaper or bitcrusher stage with a filter—and the P12 purports to have all these and other manipulation functions. You're of course right about the polyphony and that the filters won't sound the same, yet I stick to my opinion that it's stealing thunder.
Old 27th January 2013 | Show parent
  #115
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ionian's Avatar
 
1 Review written
🎧 10 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by Disease Factory ➡️
Studio Electronic lost their window to compete by dragging their knuckles on the pavement.

Naaa, not really. If it comes out and it sounds good, people will buy it. If it sounds really, really good people will sell what they just bought to buy it or save up for it.

A good sounding module can't be denied. Doesn't matter when it's released.
Old 27th January 2013
  #116
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Mefistophelees's Avatar
 
🎧 5 years
The vintage market has got so hot because analogue has become fashionable and there wasn't that much new analogue gear around. Add to that most of what was around didn't have knobs.

There is a limited supply in the vintage market so prices have gone up. With prices rising fast that brought in dealers and other looking for a quick few quid.

That's all changed now. Not only are there are a number of knobby analogues available but they're not expensive. I can see this really hitting the vintage market, at least for some synths.

I don't think the Tempest will be effected much although the people looking for the Tempest as a synth might go for the Prophet 12 instead. As for software, the latest beta appears to be stable and it is pretty much is almost feature complete.

I can see a bunch of people selling Prophet'08s so they could fall.

I'm interested in the new MS-20 because it'll integrate with my modular and unlike the MS-20 I already already have, I'm prepared to mod it. However I'm in no hurry so I can wait to see if I can get a bargain
Old 27th January 2013 | Show parent
  #117
Gear Nut
 
Xtinct's Avatar
 
🎧 10 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by ionian ➡️
Naaa, not really. If it comes out and it sounds good, people will buy it. If it sounds really, really good people will sell what they just bought to buy it or save up for it.

A good sounding module can't be denied. Doesn't matter when it's released.
Definitely! But what happens when your faced with two really great sounding feature packed analogue instruments? Man, at their price points id go for broke and buy both. I'm open to trying out the 24db ladder filter boomstar! What if it hangs dong sonically like the sub fatty?
Then also having the new ms20? With all those cv patch points, get crazy with the two units and ur exsisting minibrute and/or modular setup! That makes my head explode.
Old 27th January 2013 | Show parent
  #118
Gear Guru
 
1 Review written
🎧 10 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mefistophelees ➡️
That's all changed now. Not only are there are a number of knobby analogues available but they're not expensive. I can see this really hitting the vintage market, at least for some synths.
I think the price of vintage "cheapish" analog polysynths are going to continue to rise.. because the new poly analogs are still not that affordable..
Old 27th January 2013 | Show parent
  #119
Gear Nut
 
Xtinct's Avatar
 
🎧 10 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by djugel ➡️
I think the price of vintage "cheapish" analog polysynths are going to continue to rise.. because the new poly analogs are still not that affordable..
If so, I'm off loading my korg ex800, gonna need money for my new ms20....
Curious tho..what a dsi tetra will be going at this year.
Old 27th January 2013 | Show parent
  #120
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astraeus000's Avatar
 
🎧 10 years
I don't think the Prophet 12 should cut into Prophet 08 sales too much . . . seems like quite a different sound overall. I think it might lure some like myself to dump their Polyevolver's though. But if I see the Polyevolver keyboards selling for <$1200 all of a sudden, I might just pick up another and polychain instead of purchasing the P12. They do seem to have a certain similarity in overall sound from what I can tell. Still, $3000 is alot of cash. I think it looks fantastic though.
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