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New gear from Roland and BOSS, looking good!
Old 12th February 2013 | Show parent
  #181
Gear Addict
 
🎧 5 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by ChristianRock ➡️
It's the "old" Roland piano sound found in the Fantoms and expansion cards. It probably works well for live playing bands, but obviously sucks for solo pieces.

I wish there wasn't a need for an iPad to edit the sounds. It looks like a pretty capable keyboard at a very nice price - but if you add the cost of the iPad it gets a bit more expensive.

Well, of course I might be the only one that complains. Everybody else seems to have an iPad...
Just like Roland banks on people using Cakewalk, they also bank on most synth players owning an iPad. Kind of an oxymoron don't ya think?. But what do you do, they have to promote their own DAW company. Wish they would team up with Apple.
Old 13th February 2013 | Show parent
  #182
MusicFan
Guest
Quote:
Originally Posted by Diametro ➡️

I agree the German Grand on Kronos is nice ... It's the rest of the board that's the letdown ... I wanted to like the Kronos but its just cheap feeling and looking and seems very poorly designed in areas esp. when considering the price ...
Sorry for continuing off topic, resp. off Roland...

As an owner of two OASYS-88, one can imagine the feelings I have towards the cheaply built Kronos The OASYS doesn't offer the new Kronos SGX-1 piano, although it still has a very good piano with over 0.5 GB, each note stereo sampled with 4 velocities.

But if you are mainly interested in the pure synth engines (which I am), like MOD-7, MS-20, Polysix, STR-1 and AL-1, then you might consider a second-hand OASYS. It's built like a tank (full metal and aluminium), offers the better UI for synth editing, with a large tiltable display and good knobs and faders. The keyboard is excellent as well, both, the 88 hammer (custom high-end Fatar design) and the 76 semi-weighted synth action (Yamaha's former top synth action). Of course, you have to like BIG synths...



Old 13th February 2013 | Show parent
  #183
Lives for gear
 
John The Cut's Avatar
 
🎧 15 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dirty Halo ➡️

It's just sad for those of us who love the era of Jupiters and 808s and the like... in the context of THOSE times, they were creating leading edge instruments that clearly had longevity in terms of sonics and quality.
Really?

303.. karaoke bass machine, didnt really sound like a bass..
808.. karaoke drum machine, didnt really sound like drums..
606.. same..
101.. plastic monophonic bass synth, made for rock bands

Juno -basic synth, not very cutting edge, just simple to use for karaoke keyboard heads..

Jupiter?.. Ok, probably the last great thing they made.. but for who? karaoke keyboard prog rock heads..

the point is, they never made that stuff for the market which eventually picked up on it.. which is why the market did pick up on it.. it was cheesy and cheap..
Old 13th February 2013
  #184
Gear Head
 
vertibration's Avatar
 
🎧 5 years
Roland is a lame company. At least Korg is jumping out of the lame pool by putting out another ms-20. Roland is very stupid for not re-issuing the 707, 808, and 909 with todays technology. Look at Dave Smith and Linn. Those two guys are rockin with the Tempest. Roland had good products, now their stuff sucks
Old 13th February 2013 | Show parent
  #185
Gear Addict
 
🎧 5 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by vertibration ➡️
Roland is a lame company. At least Korg is jumping out of the lame pool by putting out another ms-20. Roland is very stupid for not re-issuing the 707, 808, and 909 with todays technology. Look at Dave Smith and Linn. Those two guys are rockin with the Tempest. Roland had good products, now their stuff sucks
I think that is a bit harsh. People really give Roland a hard time for not re-releasing products that would cost thousands of dollars semi-appeal to a select group.

I think Roland has decided that they should focus on the working musician and you can't fault them for doing it if they are making money. Let's also remember KORG just got serious with their analog ventures.
Old 13th February 2013
  #186
Gear Maniac
 
jlipoth's Avatar
 
🎧 10 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by draven5 ➡️
Roland is about as exciting now as Windows is to Apple's innovative products.
If that statement was true it wild be 3-5 years too late..... but I think you are confusing "innovation" with "rehashing others' innovations with an good design and branding it better"



Sent from my SAMSUNG-SGH-I717
Old 13th February 2013
  #187
Deleted b788fee
Guest
Quote:
Originally Posted by MusicFan ➡️
Sorry for continuing off topic, resp. off Roland...

As an owner of two OASYS-88, one can imagine the feelings I have towards the cheaply built Kronos The OASYS doesn't offer the new Kronos SGX-1 piano, although it still has a very good piano with over 0.5 GB, each note stereo sampled with 4 velocities.

But if you are mainly interested in the pure synth engines (which I am), like MOD-7, MS-20, Polysix, STR-1 and AL-1, then you might consider a second-hand OASYS. It's built like a tank (full metal and aluminium), offers the better UI for synth editing, with a large tiltable display and good knobs and faders. The keyboard is excellent as well, both, the 88 hammer (custom high-end Fatar design) and the 76 semi-weighted synth action (Yamaha's former top synth action). Of course, you have to like BIG synths...



Don't worry about it ... Any thread generically about Roland is always a train wreck ...

I've had the opportunity to play the Big O on a couple of occasions and it definitely left a favorable impression ...

However nothing -- and I honestly mean it -- nothing has convinced me to get rid of my fully expanded Fan-X7 ... It still looks and plays like the day I got it ... sRX And the four cards I installed give me an incredible wealth of sound creation possibilities ...

So many synths have come and gone Including a Jupiter 8 and Jupiter 6, But the Fantom stays ... To me it's just an incredibly versatile synthesizer and performance machine ...

The oasys is actually very similar IMO ... But if something ever happened to my Fantom I would definitely consider one ...
Old 14th February 2013
  #188
Lives for gear
 
SonicBern's Avatar
 
🎧 10 years


One more new vid...
Old 14th February 2013
  #189
messiaen
Guest
I am liking the sound of this more and more, espcically having all those effects to play with, should compliment the Moog sub phatty well which is on my hit list, so I can have a decent poly and mono for £1500, the prophet 12 will just have to wait!
Old 14th February 2013 | Show parent
  #190
Lives for gear
 
SonicBern's Avatar
 
🎧 10 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by messiaen ➡️
... the prophet 12 will just have to wait!






Buy the DSI P12, thank me later...

Old 15th February 2013 | Show parent
  #191
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synthguy's Avatar
 
🎧 10 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by SonicBern ➡️
Buy the DSI P12, thank me later...
Uhm... I would completely agree with you. But messiaen sounds like he's going to have to scrounge for the £1500 necessary to buy the VR-09 and SubPhat. In addition, the VR-09 has a slew of band-in-a-box features as every video has showcased pretty well. It sounds good, and has that Jupiter VA in it that takes it to the next level. Then you have the Phatty for some real analog goodness.

I would say that the VR/Phatty combo would be a great place to start learning music production, composition and synthesis. Then when your feet are well planted, then either get the P12, or maybe the more affordable P08 if the VR's synth engine gets you most of what you want.

One more thing. The demonstrator gets really carried away with those effects, especially the compressor. Take the demo with the understanding that he's probably showing how the compressor makes everything sound, rather than suggesting that the comp sounds good on everything. I've found that using lots of compression only succeeds in making your music sound mashed and undynamic.
Old 15th February 2013 | Show parent
  #192
Lives for gear
 
SonicBern's Avatar
 
🎧 10 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by synthguy ➡️
Uhm... I would completely agree with you. But messiaen sounds like he's going to have to scrounge for the £1500 necessary to buy the VR-09 and SubPhat. In addition, the VR-09 has a slew of band-in-a-box features as every video has showcased pretty well. It sounds good, and has that Jupiter VA in it that takes it to the next level. Then you have the Phatty for some real analog goodness.

I would say that the VR/Phatty combo would be a great place to start learning music production, composition and synthesis. Then when your feet are well planted, then either get the P12, or maybe the more affordable P08 if the VR's synth engine gets you most of what you want.

One more thing. The demonstrator gets really carried away with those effects, especially the compressor. Take the demo with the understanding that he's probably showing how the compressor makes everything sound, rather than suggesting that the comp sounds good on everything. I've found that using lots of compression only succeeds in making your music sound mashed and undynamic.
A fine combo, but he needs a real synth
Old 15th February 2013 | Show parent
  #193
Gear Addict
 
🎧 5 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by SonicBern ➡️
A fine combo, but he needs a real synth
Sounds very awesome and very flexible.
Old 15th February 2013
  #194
messiaen
Guest
I am getting a real synth a MOOG subphatty!! I want an analog poly as well, but will also need 'bread and butter sounds, and rather than go software, or sound module (roland jv1080 etc, good but you have to buy cards) yamaha mx 61, or nord, or king korg which seems a bit overpriced , this looks OK, I mean its not perfect but I like the fact you can at least mangle up the on board sounds pretty nicely. only has 200 odd sounds but most I've heard so far seem useable/nice etc... its got a looper, etc, it looks like a decent 'starter' synth, better than gaia, ultranove, juno d, etc... I will get analog poly at some point, theres not a lot of choice for affordable prgrammable, knobby analogs as have been dsicuseed ad nauseum on my other threads.

I was waiting for NAMM to see what emerged and its been amazing, This keyboard sounds interesting, as does the king korg, Ms 20, subphatty, Boomstars, and the mighty prophet 12, something for everyone...though still people like to bitch!!!
Old 15th February 2013 | Show parent
  #195
Lives for gear
 
synthguy's Avatar
 
🎧 10 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by SonicBern ➡️
A fine combo, but he needs a real synth
I do too. I confessed to maisonvague some of my analog collection, and what I'm lacking is a serious polyanalog. And that would be the Prophet 12, hands down, nothing out there like it, and can hardly wait to get my hands on one.

But I've been in messiaen's shoes, having to scrounge for pennies and basically having no real life as I saved up for the equivalent of a Casio XW-P1. Not a bad keyboard by any means, but very limited when you open the hood and peek, and when you don't have much money, your options are limited too.

Fortunately, technology allows budget keyboards to be seriously powerful, like the Sub Phatty, VR-09 and King KORG. In the VR, you're basically getting $2000 US worth of synthesis and organ modeling with more real time controls than a Jupiter-50 for half price. With The King, you're getting more synthesizer than a Radias and a serious distortion option for $100 more, unadjusted for inflation so it could technically be the same price or less in real cost.

Plus, messiaen is just getting his feet wet in synthesis, so understanding that Jupiter engine in the VR is going to take some schooling. Having a knobby SubPhatty to learn on will be a help, plus the advice from people here who won't vomit at the name Roland. And it does sound like the Prophet is on his list for the time he starts making some real money.

In my case, I should be able to afford something serious. God knows when, but surely by summer I'll have that serious polyanalog I've been dreaming about.
Old 15th February 2013 | Show parent
  #196
Lives for gear
 
SonicBern's Avatar
 
🎧 10 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by messiaen ➡️
I am getting a real synth a MOOG subphatty!! I want an analog poly as well, but will also need 'bread and butter sounds, and rather than go software, or sound module (roland jv1080 etc, good but you have to buy cards) yamaha mx 61, or nord, or king korg which seems a bit overpriced , this looks OK, I mean its not perfect but I like the fact you can at least mangle up the on board sounds pretty nicely. only has 200 odd sounds but most I've heard so far seem useable/nice etc... its got a looper, etc, it looks like a decent 'starter' synth, better than gaia, ultranove, juno d, etc... I will get analog poly at some point, theres not a lot of choice for affordable prgrammable, knobby analogs as have been dsicuseed ad nauseum on my other threads.

I was waiting for NAMM to see what emerged and its been amazing, This keyboard sounds interesting, as does the king korg, Ms 20, subphatty, Boomstars, and the mighty prophet 12, something for everyone...though still people like to bitch!!!
Spend wisely

You may need an iPad if you have not got one already
Old 15th February 2013
  #197
Lives for gear
 
adhmzaiusz's Avatar
 
🎧 10 years
Man, every time i see this thread pop up again, the title worries me that someone at roland will see it and think they are on track. I really hope that if they do see it they read the rest :facepalm :
Old 15th February 2013 | Show parent
  #198
Lives for gear
 
ionian's Avatar
 
1 Review written
🎧 10 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by draven5 ➡️
Getting a virus on a PC is a crippled product...
Lol - I can't believe I missed this! Did I get facepalmed by an Apple fanboy?

I know the irony is lost on you but that doesn't make this any less hilarious.


Thanks for my chuckle for the day!



Frank
Old 15th February 2013 | Show parent
  #199
Lives for gear
 
Dirty Halo's Avatar
 
🎧 15 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by John The Cut ➡️
Really?

303.. karaoke bass machine, didnt really sound like a bass..
808.. karaoke drum machine, didnt really sound like drums..
606.. same..
101.. plastic monophonic bass synth, made for rock bands

Juno -basic synth, not very cutting edge, just simple to use for karaoke keyboard heads..

Jupiter?.. Ok, probably the last great thing they made.. but for who? karaoke keyboard prog rock heads..

the point is, they never made that stuff for the market which eventually picked up on it.. which is why the market did pick up on it.. it was cheesy and cheap..

You are confusing "success" with "quality" and "innovation."

You are right that the 303 et al were marketed as one thing (badly) and found success later, that is not disputed.

My point was, what they actual MADE was of quality and innovative. The sonics, the build, the very concepts were great as synths and drum machines.

I just don't see that innovation in most of Roland's products today.

Look ahead 20 years, will the Jupiter 80 stand on it's own for sound, for what it can do and for being distinguished from other synths?

Naw.


-a
Old 15th February 2013 | Show parent
  #200
Lives for gear
 
🎧 5 years
You're kicking in Roland's ballz but Korg and Yamaha aren't better.
And re-issuing an old ms-20 is NOT being innovative. And it's a mini version, with crappy keybed, it's an inferior version of a really basic synths of the 70's, in 2013.

Anyways it seems the VR-09 will be released in April.
Old 15th February 2013
  #201
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adhmzaiusz's Avatar
 
🎧 10 years
Innovation or not, either way at least they are closer at giving people what they want than Roland or yamaha etc
Old 15th February 2013 | Show parent
  #202
Lives for gear
 
🎧 5 years
O really. Well, I wouldn't buy a MS-20 but rather a Eowave Magma if i wanted another mono analog atm, it's more innovative and interesting to me.
By no mean i would ever, even if i had billions in my bank, buy a KingKorg either for various reasons.
And i don't even see why in the world would i ever, ever need a 3000€ workstation when my daw does everything better.

Korg is far away from what i want. Their sexiest product still is the monotron to me. No kidding.

It's only my opinion. Just like you have yours but i can not agree when you're gonna say "it's what every people want" it's simply not true.
Old 15th February 2013 | Show parent
  #203
227861
Guest
Quote:
Originally Posted by MiniDX ➡️
You're kicking in Roland's ballz but Korg and Yamaha aren't better.
And re-issuing an old ms-20 is NOT being innovative. And it's a mini version, with crappy keybed, it's an inferior version of a really basic synths of the 70's, in 2013.

Anyways it seems the VR-09 will be released in April.
Korg recognized a large part of their fanbase is old school guys or guys who want old school products available now to buy along with the new innovative products.

Korg is pretty darn innovative. Korg too has a connnection with young artists, artists with low budgets and pros with bigger budgets. Their products are fun, but they offer so much more to that too.




When that mini MS20 comes out watch it trample Roland's products in sales. Like he said above my not be innovative but it's what the customer wants.
Old 15th February 2013 | Show parent
  #204
Lives for gear
 
synthguy's Avatar
 
🎧 10 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by adhmzaiusz ➡️
Man, every time i see this thread pop up again, the title worries me that someone at roland will see it and think they are on track. I really hope that if they do see it they read the rest :facepalm :
I worry that every music instrument maker gets the false impression that GS is representative in any way, shape or form of the general music buying population. But surely they have more sense than that.

Quote:
Originally Posted by adhmzaiusz ➡️
Innovation or not, either way at least they are closer at giving people what they want than Roland or yamaha etc
If this is true, no one will buy them. But if people buy them, what will be your response?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dirty Halo ➡️
Look ahead 20 years, will the Jupiter 80 stand on it's own for sound, for what it can do and for being distinguished from other synths?

Naw.
DH my friend, you must think like a futurist.

At some point, the Technological Singularity will occur, an age in which almost anything will be possible, thanks to artificial sentience computers helping us unlock the secrets of the universe, kind of the first artificial life. Some think it could take a century, but the pace of knowledge is increasing exponentially, so we could have thinking computers in ten years or less. And I suspect God or aliens will invade and save us from ruining ourselves with this level of power, but I digress.

But let's forget that big picture and just think of what electronic music instruments will be like. But again, anything may be possible thanks to the tech mega-explosion which will occur. Modeling will likely reach the 99.9999% accuracy point. Imagine something like the convolution reverb, but in the form of synths. Plug in a Minimoog D in pristine condition, make a series of samples, and you can have an exact replica of that Mini with all the flaws recreated. Not to mention pianos, violins, etc.

What won't be possible when you have additive and FM synthesis with 256 partials/harmonics to play with, and who knows how many algorithms? And who knows how many ways to synthesize?

But don't despair. Thanks to mega-advances in material synthesis and manufacturing, nano-fashioning technology should allow just about anything to be made, including perfect reissues of the CS-80, Jupiter-8, Memorymoog, Synthex, ARP Chroma and the fabulous Omni, as well as Stradivarius violins and the best Steinway and Bosendorfer pianos, not to mention pipe organs or... anything, including synths made to your own specifications. So analog synths will likely be available with legacy silver cable connections running into reissued AMEK, Harrison or whatever consoles, but with built in DAWs. Unless of course you want to record on your own reissued Studer 2" reel to reel, with tape made of any type you want.

Of course, those of us who want to roll our own will have to compete with ten billion kids who have computers spit out reams of tracks to slap their name on it. But then, those of us who are the real deal and know how to do it for ourselves will be celebrities just because. Hopefully. heh

But in the meantime, Roland is producing some truly superb instruments, things people would have sold wives and kids for ten years ago, regardless of what anyone's opinions are.
Old 16th February 2013
  #205
Gear Addict
 
🎧 5 years
It is a tougher time than ever to be a Roland fan on this sight, especially with all the resurgence of analog synths and the companies who are building them. I am by know means saying that an all analog synth is nothing to get excited about, but I know for me I need bread and butter sounds as well for any live show. If I had the budget, space and show time, I would love to run a 4 keyboard setup on stage with a real analog lead instrument at my side.
Old 16th February 2013
  #206
Lives for gear
 
synthguy's Avatar
 
🎧 10 years
It's only tough around here, where too many people pretend that live shows are full of Macbeths, GRP A8s, Pittsburgh Modulars and racks loaded with Doepfers or Dotcoms. Oh, and vintage MS-20s to the rafters. When in reality, most musicians are using Tritons, Fantoms, Motifs Kurzweils, Jupiters and Kronoses, with an occasional Voyager, Prophet 08 and Andromeda.

Chin up man, remember where you're at.
Old 16th February 2013
  #207
Lives for gear
 
Temple of Light's Avatar
 
🎧 10 years
SPD V2 is the only thing they have goin' on I'm interested in,
that and their MC808, KC880 and RC300. After these are had I'm pretty much done with these guys for good.
Old 16th February 2013 | Show parent
  #208
Lives for gear
 
SonicBern's Avatar
 
🎧 10 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by adhmzaiusz ➡️
Man, every time i see this thread pop up again, the title worries me that someone at roland will see it and think they are on track. I really hope that if they do see it they read the rest :facepalm :
Roland are well aware of their own financial results and the musical instruments side of their business has made all their losses (company reports posted here recently). It would be interesting to know what the split is amongst each instrument type as they have a massive range beyond stuff you see mentioned at this site...

Add all the staff, design, production, marketing and distribution overheads and it is hard for them to turn such a big ship to match the down turn in the world economy... I suspect they are hoping things will get better before dropping too many axes at HQ...

They seem to be making products in this latest release that are lower priced and easier to sell, that gigging musicians will need.... KORG did something similar some time back for those that need mini keys or have a stylus

A lot of the bitching we see on forums is due to price, just like when KORG released the OASYS keyboard with it's $8000 price tag, Roland took some heat for the Jupiter 80 for its price to spec ratio... Add some ''why did they call it Jupiter'' and ''where is my ANALOGz'' and the rest you know and saw...

If they still do not want to develop any ANALOG stuff (digital is their future was plastered over their corporate pages last time I looked), best peeps give them a rest and ignore the stuff they are making if it is not for them...

For those that do want to make ANALOG or Hybrids, there is still enough electronic component makers out there to feed new products. That dependency is one reason Roland cannot copy all the stuff they did in the past as has been mentioned before, so you have to accept some loss of legacy sound if the bits that make the stuff up is no longer made as Roland bought in some significant parts in the past to make their synths of old...

Personally I prefer the sound of the new DSI P12 to the Jupiter 8.... I would love a Jupiter 4 though
Old 16th February 2013 | Show parent
  #209
Lives for gear
 
🎧 5 years
Roland's target is the guy who's going to make a live concert with his band. They're thinking about how he's gonna use his sounds and what sounds are needed, the d-beam and other functionalities that make sense in live.
And they're pretty good at that.

There's no wonder they're thinking about the ipad now. It's mobile and discrete enough for a live. If it crashes your gig isn't doomed as it's only for the deepest synthesis parts but you're supposed to have your sounds ready when you're on stage and you can still do your modulations with the knobs.

No one cares if the keyboardist of a band is using a true VCO based and vintage synthetizer when they're watching them. The sounds have to be useable and on this synth, they definitely are.

There is no sense comparing with a P12 either as you can't do anything similar on these. What will you do with your P12 when your band needs a piano ? That's where the romplers shine, no matter how people hate them because they're stupid sample machines. They have a use when you need accoustic sounds.
Old 16th February 2013 | Show parent
  #210
Gear Addict
 
🎧 5 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by synthguy ➡️
It's only tough around here, where too many people pretend that live shows are full of Macbeths, GRP A8s, Pittsburgh Modulars and racks loaded with Doepfers or Dotcoms. Oh, and vintage MS-20s to the rafters. When in reality, most musicians are using Tritons, Fantoms, Motifs Kurzweils, Jupiters and Kronoses, with an occasional Voyager, Prophet 08 and Andromeda.

Chin up man, remember where you're at.
Appreciate it dude. My name is Roland RAZZ, and I like romplers for which I am seeking psychological treatment.

heh
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