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New gear from Roland and BOSS, looking good!
Old 22nd January 2013 | Show parent
  #61
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ksandvik's Avatar
 
🎧 10 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dirty Halo ➑️
Roland NEVER made innovative synths?

What was the Jupiter 8, Jupiter 4, Jupiter 6, Tr 808, TR 909, CR-78 and the very first drum machines? What about VP-9000 technology? What about the V-Synth? Hell, even the W-30... ALL in the context of the time they were made, they certainy WERE innovative and top of the line.

Don't confuse sales with innovation.

The 303 and others found new lives as they were used in new ways, but that is a seperate line of logic.

And again, with your second point, you are confusing economics with innovation... Of course, MORE people use cheaper softeware, but have ya kinda sorta maybe noticed a whole crap load of new analog being made, some retro, but some innovative.

And btw, even software is becoming dated, it's not exactly the NEW form of synthesis it was a decade ago (exceptions to the rule, of course).

BUT, the point really is, does Roland drive sales from being perceived as being innovative and high-end or does it service wedding singer markets (we know the answer to that).
Roland didn't make TR-808s for hip hop or 303s for acid, it was for bands playing music. Heck the CR-78 was for lounge musicians unless you had big plans to make the next dance craze using bossa nova rhythms.

And yes, I used to own Jupiters and lots of other Roland gear in the early eighties. And I used them for totally different purposes than what Roland engineers designed them for. The same applies today, take a Jupiter-80 and make something new instead of waiting for a company to deliver on a plate your thing.

One more reason I like all these young producers who don't care about analog this or analog that and go ahead and create grime, glitch hop, dreamstep et rest using whatever they could afford.

PS: And if you look at the three new BOSS guitar pedals, they are pretty innovative in this new stale world of guitar pedals all doing the same (Electro Harmonix of course thinking differently.)
Old 22nd January 2013
  #62
Gear Addict
 
🎧 5 years
Old 22nd January 2013
  #63
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skira's Avatar
 
🎧 10 years
I think it's hilarious how Roland is getting killed by so many people here, but last year there were people climbing over each other to praise those plastic-fantastic Casios (which no one is talking about any more).
Old 23rd January 2013 | Show parent
  #64
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Dirty Halo's Avatar
 
🎧 15 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by ksandvik ➑️
Roland didn't make TR-808s for hip hop or 303s for acid, it was for bands playing music. Heck the CR-78 was for lounge musicians unless you had big plans to make the next dance craze using bossa nova rhythms.
Who said they did?

But, back to your "Roland never made anything innovative" statement... are you really going to say any and all of the above (From TR 808s to Jupiters) weren't innovative, top of the line, or otherwise?

(Yes, I have a headache... now)
Old 23rd January 2013 | Show parent
  #65
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Dirty Halo's Avatar
 
🎧 15 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by skira ➑️
I think it's hilarious how Roland is getting killed by so many people here, but last year there were people climbing over each other to praise those plastic-fantastic Casios (which no one is talking about any more).
You didn't happen to notice a little Jupiter 80 thread, did ya?

(The "Roland resentment" is far from anything new around here... they keep on disappointing us and we keep hoping it'll be different next time... battered wife syndrome!)
Old 23rd January 2013 | Show parent
  #66
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ksandvik's Avatar
 
🎧 10 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dirty Halo ➑️
Who said they did?

But, back to your "Roland never made anything innovative" statement... are you really going to say any and all of the above (From TR 808s to Jupiters) weren't innovative, top of the line, or otherwise?

(Yes, I have a headache... now)
Take an aspirin, or get used to Internet forums and don't worry so much if someone has a different opinion.

They were at their time innovative, but the products were not done to start techno or dubstep, they were done for working musicians and home hobbyists.

Most innovative music styles start with a creative person taking an instrument and turning it upside down. Happens all the time.

I sometimes wish musicians would actually be more innovative with notes than chasing down fun sound waves and effects, through. There's plenty of useful sounds you could use today. No need for more of them.

And Roland makes good products. If there's lack of innovation about music, it certainly is not Roland's fault.
Old 23rd January 2013 | Show parent
  #67
Lives for gear
 
🎧 5 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by ksandvik ➑️
Roland didn't make TR-808s for hip hop or 303s for acid
Sax didn't make saxophones for jazz.
Old 23rd January 2013
  #68
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synthguy's Avatar
 
🎧 10 years
I like that organ guy. I really dig the Jupiter-80 and Integra-7 too.

And you guys have to look at economic reality. Keyboard makers that turn big profits either sell boatloads of flagship synths (KORG, Yamaha) or sell several boatloads of prosumer stuff and home keyboards (Casio, Roland, Yamaha). In order for Roland to stay afloat and have a hope of competing today and tomorrow, they need to feed the market with stuff that sells.

And I haven't trudged through the usual Gearslutz parade of tirade, but I'm also remembering that Roland bypassed NAMM to make a splash in Music Messe. I suspect they'll pull more rabbits out of their hat there.
Old 23rd January 2013 | Show parent
  #69
Gear Addict
 
🎧 5 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by skira ➑️
I think it's hilarious how Roland is getting killed by so many people here, but last year there were people climbing over each other to praise those plastic-fantastic Casios (which no one is talking about any more).
WELL said and Hear, Hear!!!!!!!!
Old 23rd January 2013
  #70
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asynchro_nous's Avatar
 
🎧 10 years
Casio was being praised for re-entering the pro synth market with affordable new stuff.
Old 23rd January 2013
  #71
Vfx
Here for the gear
 
🎧 5 years
Is it me? Roland offerings in the synthesizer dept. at recent Namm events have been lame and Namm 2013 is no exception!

Seems Musikmesse gets more interesting synth related releases from Roland.

I love Roland but all of the newest things I got from them have been sold. SH-01 Gaia, Juno-G, AX-Synth, Juno Di) I am keeping my other 12 Roland synths though they go back to the Juno-60 upto the 1st V-Synth version 2. In the past year or two now I really have begun to give up on Roland producing anything new that I can use because my older Roland gear is still awesome and in my opinion better than anything they have put out lately build wise and sound characteristic wise. I will admit that I have been on more of an analog kick lately and have bought a couple Moogs: Little Phatty Stage II and Voyager Old School) trying to tap into the types of synthesis and sound (that inspired me to play and write) used in the music of the 70's and 80's before the sample playback synths existed. And something different from the Roland's I have owned for years. I guess I have used Roland for 22 years or so now.
I still have a place in my heart for Roland but they do not have anything I really want or like.
Still hoping for something awesome from Roland in the future.
Old 23rd January 2013 | Show parent
  #72
Gear Addict
 
🎧 5 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by Vfx ➑️
Is it me? Roland offerings in the synthesizer dept. at recent Namm events have been lame and Namm 2013 is no exception!

Seems Musikmesse gets more interesting synth related releases from Roland.

I love Roland but all of the newest things I got from them have been sold. SH-01 Gaia, Juno-G, AX-Synth, Juno Di) I am keeping my other 12 Roland synths though they go back to the Juno-60 upto the 1st V-Synth version 2. In the past year or two now I really have begun to give up on Roland producing anything new that I can use because my older Roland gear is still awesome and in my opinion better than anything they have put out lately build wise and sound characteristic wise. I will admit that I have been on more of an analog kick lately and have bought a couple Moogs: Little Phatty Stage II and Voyager Old School) trying to tap into the types of synthesis and sound (that inspired me to play and write) used in the music of the 70's and 80's before the sample playback synths existed. And something different from the Roland's I have owned for years. I guess I have used Roland for 22 years or so now.
I still have a place in my heart for Roland but they do not have anything I really want or like.
Still hoping for something awesome from Roland in the future.
Didn't like the GAIA, wow. The AX synth is just for fun and you had one, bummer.
Old 23rd January 2013
  #73
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synthguy's Avatar
 
🎧 10 years
I've pretty much given up on Gearslutz being anything but a partisan ideological bickerfest anymore. Sad, really, a music place that you go to for a nice chat about gear and music, only to find pages of trash talk...
Old 23rd January 2013 | Show parent
  #74
Gear Addict
 
🎧 5 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by synthguy ➑️
I've pretty much given up on Gearslutz being anything but a partisan ideological bickerfest anymore. Sad, really, a music place that you go to for a nice chat about gear and music, only to find pages of trash talk...
I guess nothing is perfect. But where are we going to go, Harmony Central? Trust me we have it good here. At least there are things to discuss and the site works. But I do understand the skewed and partisan behavior. Perhaps it is the purpose of the site. I for one am going to always challenge that belief system.

Old 23rd January 2013
  #75
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synthguy's Avatar
 
🎧 10 years
I grant you that, Dis-Harmony Central is sometimes even worse, which is why I do participate in things here. Occasionally.
Old 23rd January 2013 | Show parent
  #76
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🎧 5 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by synthguy ➑️
I grant you that, Dis-Harmony Central is sometimes even worse, which is why I do participate in things here. Occasionally.
I know it is sad. There are nice people over there, but I am much happier here.
Old 23rd January 2013 | Show parent
  #77
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Dirty Halo's Avatar
 
🎧 15 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by ksandvik ➑️
Take an aspirin, or get used to Internet forums and don't worry so much if someone has a different opinion.

They were at their time innovative, but the products were not done to start techno or dubstep, they were done for working musicians and home hobbyists.

Most innovative music styles start with a creative person taking an instrument and turning it upside down. Happens all the time.

I sometimes wish musicians would actually be more innovative with notes than chasing down fun sound waves and effects, through. There's plenty of useful sounds you could use today. No need for more of them.

And Roland makes good products. If there's lack of innovation about music, it certainly is not Roland's fault.

You are arguing with yourself now, I never said anything about dubstep or techno.

My point was and is that Roland WAS innovative with key products within the context of their time... as you've NOW conceded.

As for your last point, time to start your own thread on that one, it's been beaten to death a few times over.

-a
Old 23rd January 2013 | Show parent
  #78
Gear Addict
 
🎧 5 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dirty Halo ➑️
You are arguing with yourself now, I never said anything about dubstep or techno.

My point was and is that Roland WAS innovative with key products within the context of their time... as you've NOW conceded.

As for your last point, time to start your own thread on that one, it's been beaten to death a few times over.

-a
Innovation is a loose term. Roland is in touch with the Player and they get a hard time for that. Like I said, talk to the millions of Roland product users and pros who find that ways to make there life easier to be very innovative. No one faults Apple for that form of innovation. Why does no one mention Yamaha for having the same philosophy nearly 90% of the time. that is why their Motif line and pianos are for more successful than their Tenori-on.
Old 23rd January 2013 | Show parent
  #79
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ksandvik's Avatar
 
🎧 10 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dirty Halo ➑️
You are arguing with yourself now, I never said anything about dubstep or techno.

My point was and is that Roland WAS innovative with key products within the context of their time... as you've NOW conceded.

As for your last point, time to start your own thread on that one, it's been beaten to death a few times over.

-a
My point all along -- in case you ever read my comments -- was that Roland made products for working musicians and hobbyists. Not to make products that kicked off innovative new music styles. That was done by musicians that took products Roland made for these markets and used them in innovative ways. That's where the innovation came from. I guess I had to repeat this again in case you read it this time.

Same true just now. Don't complain Roland will not make products that will innovate music. The ball is in your court.

Or. A press release from NAMM 2014 that will never happen: "Roland now released the WW-Synth that will create the new innovative dub-hop music world."
Old 23rd January 2013 | Show parent
  #80
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Dirty Halo's Avatar
 
🎧 15 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by ksandvik ➑️
My point all along -- in case you ever read my comments -- was that Roland made products for working musicians and hobbyists. Not to make products that kicked off innovative new music styles. That was done by musicians that took products Roland made for these markets and used them in innovative ways. That's where the innovation came from. I guess I had to repeat this again in case you read it this time.

Same true just now. Don't complain Roland will not make products that will innovate music. The ball is in your court.


... Ok, great, you win the internet argument no one is having, except yourself.


Carry on.
Old 23rd January 2013 | Show parent
  #81
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ksandvik's Avatar
 
🎧 10 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dirty Halo ➑️
... Ok, great, you win the internet argument no one is having, except yourself.


Carry on.
Still have a headache, me thinks you are taking Internet too seriously... Unless you have a headache talking to yourself, sorry can't help about that one...
Old 23rd January 2013 | Show parent
  #82
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Dirty Halo's Avatar
 
🎧 15 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by ksandvik ➑️
Still have a headache, me thinks you are taking Internet too seriously... Unless you have a headache talking to yourself, sorry can't help about that one...

You're trolling now (perhaps always were).
Old 23rd January 2013 | Show parent
  #83
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pinkerton's Avatar
 
🎧 10 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by skira ➑️
I think it's hilarious how Roland is getting killed by so many people here, but last year there were people climbing over each other to praise those plastic-fantastic Casios (which no one is talking about any more).
Not me.
Old 23rd January 2013 | Show parent
  #84
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ksandvik's Avatar
 
🎧 10 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dirty Halo ➑️
You're trolling now (perhaps always were).
At least I don't have a headache. And I think the current Roland NAMM 2013 product offerings were good.
Old 23rd January 2013 | Show parent
  #85
Lives for gear
 
🎧 10 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jim Stout ➑️
If Roland killed their music line and made a great consumer desktop printer, I'd buy one to stick right by the KING Korg!.
Old 23rd January 2013 | Show parent
  #86
Lives for gear
 
🎧 5 years
Roland sends a private message to Gearslutz :
"Sell your Integra-7 and your Sh-1000, and buy a VR-09 + a pair of sunglasses."

V-Combo VR-09 Studio Performance with Looper - YouTube
Old 23rd January 2013 | Show parent
  #87
Lives for gear
 
🎧 5 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by SimplePlan ➑️
Electric guitars are also electronic instruments yet no one here is discussing a mexican strat. People is this corner are primarily concerned with synthesis not digital piano presets.
Electric guitars are not electronic instruments.


Quote:
Originally Posted by SimplePlan ➑️
Why are you stereotyping electronic musicians in with techno ? I said "electronic musicians" not "techno."
Whats the difference?
Old 23rd January 2013
  #88
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ksandvik's Avatar
 
🎧 10 years
I doubt many techno producers would be interested in newer day Roland gear, excluding vintage stuff. Concurrent techno sound is more suited for Viruses and other tight synths or then SW synths. But what do I know, I only release 10 techno tracks a year (and I don't really care what I used for producing those.)
Old 23rd January 2013
  #89
VST
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4 Reviews written
🎧 5 years
in modern Roland's defense -

Roland SPD-SX
Handsonic 10
V-drums

I like that you can hit them with sticks, something I'd like to do with all their latest keyboards.
Old 24th January 2013 | Show parent
  #90
messiaen
Guest
Quote:
Originally Posted by MiniDX ➑️
Roland sends a private message to Gearslutz :
"Sell your Integra-7 and your Sh-1000, and buy a VR-09 + a pair of sunglasses."

V-Combo VR-09 Studio Performance with Looper - YouTube
Great for Keith Emerson Wannabees!!
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