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Moog Sub Phatty vs Minitaur vs Voyager
Old 21st January 2013
  #1
Gear Nut
 
🎧 5 years
Moog Sub Phatty vs Minitaur vs Voyager

I am looking for the ultimate Moog Sub bass. Lots of low end, growl and warmth needed. Ever since seeing Ghostland Observatory I have had an awesome amount of respect for the Voyager (every hair on my body shook at one point). On a thread a while back I read that for some hardware related reasoning that the Minitaur actually has a deeper fatter bass than the voyager (if true, Wow). Now that the Sub Phatty has been leaked and it's very reasonably priced and on paper is a much better value than the Minitaur I'm all confused about what I should do. Is the Sub Phatty a rehashed LP or SP with Sub Osc's and the Multidrive or does it have the AC Coupling between the VCA and VCF like the Taur's do? Of note I have owned a SP and wasn't overly impressed with SubBass and have a SE-1X which covers similar territory to the Voyager on paper. Thanks for all responses and I understand the ridiculousness of trying to compare a synth that isn't even out yet. Cheers!
Old 21st January 2013
  #2
SimplePlan
Guest
already ? you're about three months early.
Old 21st January 2013
  #3
Lives for gear
 
🎧 5 years
It started here.
Old 21st January 2013
  #4
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Spectral Climax's Avatar
 
🎧 10 years
Give the Sub Phatty some more time... I think it has a modern character and it needs to be explored by more people without that freaking multidrive function cranked up all the time. Personally, I liked the smooth character of the LP more, but there might be some potential for a "Taurus like" bass there...
Old 21st January 2013
  #5
Gear Addict
 
moonpi's Avatar
 
🎧 15 years
The Sub Phatty is not a rehashed, improved, or replacement anything; it's a wholly unique Moog that doesn't overlap or eclipse any other product offered by Moog.

The big thing about comparing other synth products to Moog is that they don't really compare. They both generate sound and employ a keyboard. But that's about where similarity ends. The SOUND QUALITY is often forgotten about. Moog's quality of sound is really unparalleled. And the ladder filter is patented. So... if you want the Moog sound, then you only get it in a Moog.

While the Sub Phatty is really going to bring some great new low-end to the palette, The Moog Minitaur is still going to be THE Moog bass synth.
Old 21st January 2013
  #6
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iksrazal's Avatar
 
🎧 10 years
Been thinking about this myself since my Voyager is on the Moog factory bench getting fixed, so I'm trying to use the Minitaur in its place for now.

My verdict after a few days of the Minitaur is its sound is rawer in a good way than the Voyager, but the latter actually seems better suited to some of the heavier low end bass patches I like to use, due to the 3rd osc and greater flexibility. Glad I got both!

For the "ultimate Moog Sub bass" ... so far I'm thinking if you got a Voyager and Minitaur, the sub fatty doesn't offer enough new to the table. That's focusing on sound and not on price of course.
Old 21st January 2013
  #7
Gear Addict
 
moonpi's Avatar
 
🎧 15 years
I would suggest to HEAR what YOU can do with the Sub Phatty and then let us know what your thoughts are. The new Multi Drive function got a massive and really enthusiastic round of applause from us when we heard it at the factory last October. So.... I wouldn't simplify your opinion of what this thing is just yet. I think if you tried out the Sub Phatty, you would come back and say, "Glad I got ALL THREE!"
Old 21st January 2013 | Show parent
  #8
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Carey M's Avatar
 
🎧 10 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by moonpi ➑️
And the ladder filter is patented. So... if you want the Moog sound, then you only get it in a Moog.
The patent has expired quite a while ago and there are manufacturers using the same ladder filter in their products. Studio Electronics, Macbeth, etc.
Old 21st January 2013
  #9
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iksrazal's Avatar
 
🎧 10 years
Well I did say "so far" . I myself would not pay around $1k for "new Multi Drive" but that's me.

The phatty series always seemed underwhelming in terms of sound to me compared to the Minitaur and Voyager, so I see no issue with speculating in a public forum on what appears to be a mostly re-packaged product. And we have sound demos already anyways.
Old 21st January 2013 | Show parent
  #10
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iksrazal's Avatar
 
🎧 10 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by Carey M ➑️
The patent has expired quite a while ago and there are manufacturers using the same ladder filter in their products. Studio Electronics, Macbeth, etc.
I got the new 500 series Moog ladder, its so "not patented" that it has the original schematic on its back plate. But that's another story
Old 21st January 2013
  #11
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GeorgeHayduke's Avatar
 
🎧 10 years
Here's my first go at trying to recreate patches with the Minitaur, just for kicks, and for that 80ies feeling. Perhaps it'll give some impression of the sound. The drums are samples and the intro-rhodes are VST.

It does have the tight but full bass imo, but it lacks the range, so I had to transpose the synth-lead one octave down. It really is not a lead-synth, also because of the lack of modulation possibilities. But I've used it for some nice smoky/creamy organs and 12db-sounding plucks in a couple of tunes I recorded during the weekend, sounded great, super punchy and very hi-fi in relation to my other synths. I think it was Reptil who said you could simply drive the newer Moogs into a good preamp, and I agree with regards to the Minitaur, it actually brings out 'growls', as they say, when I have the Great River in yellow lights. I'll try to capture that some time.

Anyways, buy it for bass, but I'd probably wait up and see about the new Sub Phatty.

https://dl.dropbox.com/u/23321450/Ge...rgeHayduke.mp3

Edit: Ohh man, MP3 sounds like ass, here's the 24bit, it's 4 MBs:
https://dl.dropbox.com/u/23321450/Ge...rgeHayduke.wav
Old 21st January 2013
  #12
Gear Addict
 
🎧 5 years
I think the Subphatty could be the answer.
Old 21st January 2013
  #13
Deleted User
Guest
The ultimate moog bass is the MiniMoog. Not the new stuff.
Old 21st January 2013 | Show parent
  #14
Gear Addict
 
moonpi's Avatar
 
🎧 15 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by sammytaters ➑️
The ultimate moog bass is the MiniMoog. Not the new stuff.
Okay... Please explain.
Old 21st January 2013 | Show parent
  #15
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sentokan's Avatar
 
🎧 10 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by moonpi ➑️
Okay... Please explain.
no need really
Old 21st January 2013 | Show parent
  #16
Lives for gear
 
🎧 5 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by GeorgeHayduke ➑️
good stuff, and the mp3 sounded fine to me
Old 22nd January 2013 | Show parent
  #17
Gear Addict
 
moonpi's Avatar
 
🎧 15 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by sentokan ➑️
no need really
Old 22nd January 2013
  #18
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lovekrafty's Avatar
 
🎧 10 years
if you already have a SE1X, I really don,t see what you,d gain from a
voyager, the bass is more than adequate on that synth

I prefer the SE1X over the Voyager for bass duties
Old 22nd January 2013
  #19
Gear Head
 
bobborries's Avatar
 
🎧 5 years
Play a real MiniMoog and you'll know.
Old 22nd January 2013 | Show parent
  #20
Lives for gear
 
clusterchord's Avatar
 
🎧 15 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by moonpi ➑️
Sub Phatty is not a rehashed, improved, or replacement anything; it's a wholly unique Moog that doesn't overlap or eclipse any other product offered by Moog.
with most i agree but there is slight overlap.. we had a moog rep Amos confirm the oscillator core is in fact minitaur's. and the filter is of course the same old transistor ladder circuit, tho those dont all sound the same either (esp the new generation) - sub phattys filter when in 4pole position sounds pretty much like minitaur's to my ears. of course sub phatty then adds crapload of new things and features compared to minitaur. with drive, sub, waveform modulation, noise...filter pole selection.. anyways, from all moogmusic products this one im probably most excited about.



to the OP: i think minitaur and sub will share some chromosomes and both sound different from Voyager. whether thats better or worse for low end that you desire i cant say. my weapons of choice for huge low end are sh2, minimoog ,, and sometimes a6 for really deep atmo drones. i had SE1X Angel Dust, and for that, i think youre in pretty good shape. i also prefer it to Vygr for deep stuff. however, its slow. if you need really fast snappy fast bpm stuff..you gotta look elsewhere.
Old 22nd January 2013 | Show parent
  #21
227861
Guest
Quote:
Originally Posted by moonpi ➑️
Old 22nd January 2013 | Show parent
  #22
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iksrazal's Avatar
 
🎧 10 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by lovekrafty ➑️
if you already have a SE1X, I really don,t see what you,d gain from a
voyager, the bass is more than adequate on that synth

I prefer the SE1X over the Voyager for bass duties
The SE1X lacks CV and the expander capabilities (vx351/vx352/cp-251) the Voyager offers. I like the semi-modular concept and have several Moogerfoogers so its more of a complete setup for my needs. Those expanders are one of the reasons I haven't got into the fatty series yet.

Based on sound alone SE1X is a great synth.
Old 23rd January 2013 | Show parent
  #23
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Looping Loddar's Avatar
 
🎧 5 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by sentokan ➑️
no need really
Quote:
Originally Posted by moonpi ➑️
Quote:
Originally Posted by draven5 ➑️


Beside this:
For deep bass sounds the Minitaur rocks!
Old 23rd January 2013 | Show parent
  #24
Gear Guru
 
Yoozer's Avatar
 
1 Review written
🎧 10 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by moonpi ➑️
Okay... Please explain.
People use the Mini as a touchstone. Its qualities have been known for over 4 decades already. Emulations and new analogs are judged on how close they can get to that particular sound. It has a head start you can't catch up with anymore.

As for "ultimate" - well, arguably, Taurus or the Moog Modular may win that. But those have been used far less in popular context. Pick any random 70s or early 80s song and you will stumble over Mini bass, not over the Taurus or the Modular bass. "Ubiquitous" is perhaps a better term.
Old 23rd January 2013 | Show parent
  #25
Gear Addict
 
🎧 5 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by sammytaters ➑️
The ultimate moog bass is the MiniMoog. Not the new stuff.
I don't agree with that statement. Have you heard the Taurus pedals, both old and new?
Old 23rd January 2013
  #26
Gear Nut
 
🎧 5 years
A lot of good responses and insight into this debate.

I have no idea when I will have the money to get into Model D territory ($4k) unless I get really lucky and find a Goodwill one or something. Trust me, I have infinite GAS for it.

My main question from here on is whether they do this to the Sub Phatty like the Minitaur has...

What makes the Taurus synth engine an "analog bass synth":

AC coupling between VCF and VCA has an inherent 20hz corner boost.
The service manual confirms it. This is an effect that cannot be
duplicated with EQ or addition of pre-filter fundamental sine waves.

OTAs in the VCF feedback path and the VCA. The 3080 and 13700 OTAs
are NOT high fidelity, in fact if you operate them with high amplitude
signals you push the OTAs into non-linearity - that's distortion to
you laymen. The Taurus audio path has distortion designed into it.
Anybody with a 'scope can see the highly curved ramp waveform on the
audio output with the filter wide open. That's why the Taurus synth
engine has such a solid fundamental.

Hot signals into the VCF. The ladder filter will generate ear
pleasing harmonics when pushed and the Taurus exploits this feature.
Coupled with the "lo-fi" OTAs this creates a warm sound.

Old Nabble - Minitaur/Taurus synth engine


Somebody already mentioned that Amos said it's the same VCO on the Sub as the Minitaur, but if it's designed for what seems to be a bass monster I'm wondering if it shares that quality.

I guess the inclusions of Multidrive, Sub Osc, noise, 4-pole 2-pole switch, and waveform modulation is plenty to warrant the purchase either way...That's a lot of upgrades to the Minitaur (except for keys...my huge rackmount case gets emptier and angrier by the month).

I know that I don't need a Voyager but the GAS is there and if a RME ever gets posted in the $1200 range I doubt I'll be able to help myself. Reguardless, the MS-20 Mini will have to come first.
Old 23rd January 2013 | Show parent
  #27
Lives for gear
 
laikenf's Avatar
 
🎧 10 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by moonpi ➑️
The Sub Phatty is not a rehashed, improved, or replacement anything; it's a wholly unique Moog that doesn't overlap or eclipse any other product offered by Moog.

The big thing about comparing other synth products to Moog is that they don't really compare. They both generate sound and employ a keyboard. But that's about where similarity ends. The SOUND QUALITY is often forgotten about. Moog's quality of sound is really unparalleled. And the ladder filter is patented. So... if you want the Moog sound, then you only get it in a Moog.

While the Sub Phatty is really going to bring some great new low-end to the palette, The Moog Minitaur is still going to be THE Moog bass synth.
This whole "Moog's quality of sound is really unparalleled" thing is really subjective, there are many synth tones (even digital) that I prefer over modern Moog synths (and even older ones for that matter), and on top of that, many boards have been modeled after other impressive instruments from companies like Seq. Circ. Oberhiem, ARP... the list goes on. I find it odd that there are people who still hold on to that "Moog is best 'cause it's Moog" thought pattern.
Old 23rd January 2013
  #28
Lives for gear
 
Bullseye's Avatar
I have owned 2 Moogs, a Moog Source and a Voyager and I have used them both extensively for bass. The only reason I did not own an original Mini is I opted for an Odyssey at the time.

Nevertheless I have owned a plethora of other synths and the two Moogs were the best for bass and leads without question.

I will grant that I have never owned a modular but I have owned just about every other flavor of synthesizer.

I think the Moog reputation is deserved. IMHO....
Old 23rd January 2013 | Show parent
  #29
Lives for gear
 
laikenf's Avatar
 
🎧 10 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bullseye ➑️
I have owned 2 Moogs, a Moog Source and a Voyager and I have used them both extensively for bass. The only reason I did not own an original Mini is I opted for an Odyssey at the time.

Nevertheless I have owned a plethora of other synths and the two Moogs were the best for bass and leads without question.

I will grant that I have never owned a modular but I have owned just about every other flavor of synthesizer.

I think the Moog reputation is deserved. IMHO....
And I agree that it is, no doubt, but there are other synths that I personally prefer, which was the point of my post: it's very subjective, because having owned a Little Phatty and a Voyager OS (and having played extensively with the Model D), I can tell you with all honesty: I did not like those synths at all (Voyager and LP of course), and ever since I got rid of them I've been very weary towards modern Moogs. Love the Minitaur though .
Old 24th January 2013
  #30
Lives for gear
 
shaft9000's Avatar
 
🎧 10 years
answer: it's not minimoog or taurus, gents

the modular's 901 Oscillators will win this "ultimate moog bass contest" every time...if they stay in tune, and you can find/afford some, that is

all said, i'd rather have a well-cared for ARP 2600/odyssey over any Moog vintage or new. they sound close enough to old moogs that only synth nerds will care in the end (and remain none the wiser for noticing, besides) . i feel the ARPs have generally better interfacing and a gnarlier, more flexible sound character all-around.

i've had a model D, phatty tribute and a voyager here btw.
currrently haven the phatty along w/ a 2600 and solus
while offering plenty of bass-beef and ample leads, sometimes beautiful....ultimately...all of the moogs became uninspiring after a while...same ole variations on cat-yowls, funkbass and one-note organs - it's true! at least have a ringmod or some proper CV interfacing fer crying out loud. god bless Bob and all, but face it, moog ain't "the greatest" anymore, if ever. Macbeth beats the new Moogs in sound every time, and you can build a modular to eat any of their pre-built synths for just a little more outlay today.
ymmv

Cheers!
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