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An Important Lesson About Monitors
Old 31st October 2016 | Show parent
  #31
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slaughtrhaus's Avatar
 
🎧 5 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gringo Starr ➡️
Wow! Old thread! So... I treated my room with GIK Bass Traps everywhere and immediately there was a huge difference even with my M-Audios. Recently got a pair of Amphion One18's and I couldn't be happier. I am set for my needs.

But yes now I see why treatment comes first. No question.
Wow necro'ed

As for what comes first, I'll have to agree with Bluegreen on this one, totally depends on the room. Anyway, glad you got it sorted in the years that have followed.
Old 31st October 2016
  #32
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Mefistophelees's Avatar
 
🎧 5 years
I've done the same thing. I had a pair of cheap M-Audios as well.
I would play on them then transfer to another computer and play through my Hi-Fi which is old but pretty good.
The sound would be quite different though, the bass would vanish and it didn't sound the same at all.
Played through computer speakers it would sound awful.
There were big problems with the bass so I decided to get something with a bit more oomph at the low end.

At the beginning of the year I upgraded to a pair of rather more expensive Genelec 8040Bs.
They made a hell of a difference. They don't have the bass peak the M-audios had so they're a lot more accurate.
Transferring to the Hi-Fi is not a surprise anymore.

As for having more oomph - these things can make the room shake, they have waaay more low end and can go seriously LOUD.
Although they are 180W each so that's not entirely surprising!
Old 31st October 2016 | Show parent
  #33
Lives for gear
 
🎧 5 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by BassX ➡️
everyone on this planet listens to music differently, with different media-sources, different headphones, different earplugs or different speakers.
spending a lot of money on monitors, amplifiers and acoustic room treatments is just marketing, they all promise the best and most neutral (what is neutral) sound whilst no consumer listens to music the same way.
Here's how I see it: bad monitoring misses details and distorts your image, it is in other words hiding things and lying to you (would you want to work with an untrustworthy person like that?), yet you're going to base countless decisions on this (mis)information. It's screwing you up before you even think about mixing or translations issues.

The purpose of monitoring is to show you what you're doing, all of it, as it is, no more, no less. Revealing and neutral. In visual terms: if you draw a straight line, good monitoring shows you a straight line in all of its details, including those you may not have intended. Bad monitoring shows you some squiggly thing

This is important from a translation POV: bad monitoring distorts your image, which is then distorted again by the consumer. It's distorted twice, in ways you don't know, you'll have to work harder to compensate.

Now, the thing about this and sound general is that it's hard if not impossible to imagine what you are not hearing, so find a way to work in a place with proper acoustics and hear the "marketing".
Old 31st October 2016
  #34
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Praxisaxis's Avatar
 
🎧 10 years
I always get caught by these threads!!! Some passerby writes something random, and then we're off!
Old 31st October 2016 | Show parent
  #35
Deleted b598644
Guest
monitoring what you are doing is obvious yes. but when you make music with only synths plugged in your mixing desk, there is not much to bugger up the sound because there are no microphones, guitar amplifiers, DI's or other noisy external sources like in "professional" recording studios where they record mostly acoustic instruments.

a good headphone will reveal in detail any small distortions, hiss, clicks, or other audio problems and seeing that stereo is stereo, there is not much use in expensive room treatment, monitors and noise-analyzing a room when you make electronic music IMO. but hey, i'm old so what do i know.

sure, monitors look cooler than a headphone...
Old 1st November 2016 | Show parent
  #36
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Gringo Starr's Avatar
 
🎧 10 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by BassX ➡️
sure, monitors look cooler than a headphone...
And monitors are a much wiser choice when tinnitus is an issue.
Old 1st November 2016 | Show parent
  #37
Deleted b598644
Guest
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gringo Starr ➡️
And monitors are a much wiser choice when tinnitus is an issue.
not if you are not listening on high volumes
Old 1st November 2016 | Show parent
  #38
Deleted User
Guest
I used 200$ tascams for 8 years, they were my first "monitors" and I thought they were pretty good. 2 years ago I started to treat my room and bought event opals, it's a different world, totally. I am not a mixing pro at all, more like a beginner, but at least my tracks sound like I made them no matter where I listen to them.. before it was always a huge surprise listening to them on other systems / locations.
further it was a totally new experience listening in a treated room with really good speakers to some really good produced music and it still gives me shivers.

after some months I took the tascams again, just because I wanted to listen how they compared now after I got used to the opals and it was quite impressive. no detail at all, like driving with a car with fogged window pane. not just listening to finished tracks, also playing with synths alone was a big difference of detail.

sometimes I wonder when I see fotos with synths worth a few 1000$ and the cheapest possible speakers.
Old 1st November 2016 | Show parent
  #39
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ImNotDedyet's Avatar
 
🎧 5 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by Deleted b598644 ➡️
not if you are not listening on high volumes
Do you have tinnitus?

I have a mild case of it and headphones, no matter the level, they don't do me any favors. Any closed system around my ears enhances the tinnitus ringing. I avoid headphones for more than twenty minutes or so typically. Now, keeping the volumes reasonable or low will help to not get tinnitus, but once it's set in, it's set in.

And you've made a lot of claims about treatment being unimportant which are completely not true IMO as well. Yes, a mix is not going to sound the same on different systems, in different locations, but the whole purpose of higher end monitors along with good sound treatment is to hear exactly what the combination of musical elements is producing. Lack of treatment is going to cause all kinds of reflection issues, comb filtering issues, etc. Better monitors are going to more accurately reflect the sounds in more detail. Treatment is going to not have those reflections and cancellation issues. When you can hear these as close as possible to the actual sounds being produced, you have the best opportunity at a mix and arrangement that's going to work on multiple setups and rooms.
Old 1st November 2016 | Show parent
  #40
Gear Head
 
🎧 5 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by swiller ➡️
Also remember to get you ears syringed regularly. This will clean out all the wax in your ears and retain your hearing to a near perfect as possible.
Simply not possible with cotton buds and a true revelation for accurately representing space, highs and accurate bass in ewer mixes
Sorry, but no.
Earwax is there for a reason - to protect your ears, you shouldn't have them syringed, unless they are clogged and your hearing is impaired. Also you shouldn't insert q-tips deep into the ear canal.
Old 1st November 2016
  #41
PTB
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🎧 10 years
I've seen lots of studios with KRKs and no sound treatment where the producer is banging out not only solid tracks but solid mixes too. So it IS possible if you have the ears, know your room and speakers and have the technical engineering chops.

In my situation, I invested about 3K in sound treatment from Real Traps and my mixes improved drastically using the same monitors and same mixing approach. IMHO, it's a requirement.

The whole signal chain has to be right - AD/DA converters --> cables --> speakers --> treatment (in a normal, mid-sized room).

It's not going to make your music better but it will make the music you do make sound better. Then you just keep creating music.
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