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Is the JX-3P/PG-200 all that?
Old 24th September 2012
  #1
Lives for gear
 
🎧 10 years
Is the JX-3P/PG-200 all that?

Last night I was bidding on a mint, and I mean mint JX-3P w/PG-200 in the original box but the price started getting silly. Ended up going for almost a grand. I couldn't bring myself to keep bidding even though this was a beautiful example of the synth.

I had a JX-3P and programmer back in '92 or so and remembered it being cool, but was never overly impressed with it, especially compared to the Juno-60 and Juno-106 I also had at the time.

Would you have paid that much for a JX/PG? Just wondering if there's something to this synth that I don't remember that makes it worth that much.
Old 24th September 2012
  #2
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flat's Avatar
 
🎧 10 years
I had a JX3P + PG-200 for some time (before it started acting up). I always loved its strings charactor, but ultimately got bored of it. Like the Juno 6 I had, it somehow sounded too familiar after a while.

I think, if it didn't have Roland badge on it, very few would even take much notice of it tbh. I certainly wouldn't pay over £300 for one.

I do appreiciate some people round here love 'em though. Pro5 is keen on them I recall.
Old 24th September 2012
  #3
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DesolationBlvd's Avatar
 
🎧 5 years
Dollars, right?

$600-700 would have been a fair price for JX-3P + PG-200 in my opinion. "Almost a grand" would be KIWI-3P + KIWI Patch Editor, or Juno-60.

But you did say the JX-3P was mint in box.



(OP's gear list made me immediately think Duran Duran )
Old 24th September 2012
  #4
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mike vee's Avatar
 
2 Reviews written
🎧 10 years
It was my first analog. It's pretty cool with the PG-200. I wish I still had it, as it was super mint and I love the way it looks.
Old 24th September 2012
  #5
Lives for gear
 
🎧 10 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by DesolationBlvd ➡️
Dollars, right?

$600-700 would have been a fair price for JX-3P + PG-200 in my opinion. "Almost a grand" would be KIWI-3P + KIWI Patch Editor, or Juno-60.

But you did say the JX-3P was mint in box.



(OP's gear list made me immediately think Duran Duran )
Yeah was in dollars. A thousand euro would have really been ridiculous. Yeah, the gear reads right off Nick Rhodes' list for a reason
Old 24th September 2012 | Show parent
  #6
Gear Maniac
 
Illustrious's Avatar
 
🎧 10 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by mike vee ➡️
It was my first analog. It's pretty cool with the PG-200. I wish I still had it, as it was super mint and I love the way it looks.
It was mint, but it had that weird hum remember?
Old 24th September 2012
  #7
Lives for gear
 
🎧 10 years
I got mine two weeks ago with the PG200 and think it's a pretty cool synth.

I also got a Roland JX8p with the PG800 and think I actually prefer the JX3p in terms of sound (and the sequencer is pretty nice too).

But yep... I agree that 1000$ even for one like new seems a bit too much... :S
Old 24th September 2012
  #8
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kreeper_6's Avatar
 
🎧 10 years
They're worth more separate than together ($400 + $250). Together or not they should only be going for $500 tops in Good condition. They are lovely though.
Old 24th September 2012 | Show parent
  #9
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mike vee's Avatar
 
2 Reviews written
🎧 10 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by Illustrious ➡️
It was mint, but it had that weird hum remember?
oh yea, that was the FIRST-first one haha.
Old 24th September 2012
  #10
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DesolationBlvd's Avatar
 
🎧 5 years
...I should have remembered the significance of your username too...

The popularity of the JX-3P stems from the fact that it is one of the cheapest ways to get IR3109-filtered sounds. It certainly sounds more "alive" than the Alpha Juno and JX-8P families.

It's less valued than Juno-6(0) because it doesn't have PWM, self-oscillation, or really fast envelopes.


Also remember that PG-200 prices are higher because it's not only JX-3P owners, but MKS-30 owners, fighting over these. KIWI-3P and the KIWI Patch Editor should be pushing down the prices some, though.
Old 24th September 2012 | Show parent
  #11
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Rogue Ai's Avatar
 
1 Review written
🎧 5 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by DesolationBlvd ➡️
it doesn't have PWM
It does (sort of) if you sync both oscs and modulate the pitch of osc 2. It's actually the only poly I have that has sync.
Old 24th September 2012 | Show parent
  #12
Gear Nut
 
🎧 10 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by kreeper_6 ➡️
They're worth more separate than together ($400 + $250). Together or not they should only be going for $500 tops in Good condition. They are lovely though.
Old 24th September 2012
  #13
Lives for gear
 
3 Reviews written
🎧 10 years
Yes I like me some 3P? That price was high, but not unheard of if the synth (mint in box?) can go for £350+ and the programmer has reached that before on Ebay UK - so £700!

I do prefer it to the Juno(s) in terms of basic sound/features - but Junos are more instantly fun/playable (but ultimately a bit... uhmmm after a while - IMO). I much prefer it to the 8P/10! Totally different synths when you have them next to each other - sound is chalk and cheese (with 8P being the cheese) 3P sounds analog, 8P you can get JD-800, D-50 etc and get close enough in sound (and filter on the JD) and way more besides.

Yes I am biased as the 3P was the first synth I picked up again after years of all software (around 5 years back when I started getting back into hardware again). Previous to that my only serious hardware was a Juno 6 and a TG-500 (rompler). The 3P became immediately productive and inspiring in my music but you have to like it's sound and find it's sweet spots more than a Juno.

Buy a cheap one and try it out see if you like it, if not resell as parts or cost - lost nothing, gained experience of it. Don't think it would suffice as an only synth though. An only analog yes, but backed by some serious monster digital (SY77, D-50/JD-800 in my case). Makes for a cheap combo of good sounds/layers if, like me, you can't afford to splash out on the big analogs.

http://www.soundonsound.com/sos/1996...olandjx3p.html

nice review of the 3P that doesn't let the interface detract from the qualities within. I have an organix mod + BCR2000 control on mine - definitely get some kind of programmer. I had mine without programmer for a year or so and was happy enough, but my patches improved no end with full hands on.

I should say, IMO there are better all round synths out there - at this price point it's a matter of taste - check out the DW-8000, AX80, Alpha Juno 2 for alternatives - not replacements for 3P just alternatives (DW being only partly analog). These may suit you better. I just found a I really liked the 3P but not everyone will.
Old 24th September 2012 | Show parent
  #14
Lives for gear
 
3 Reviews written
🎧 10 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by DesolationBlvd ➡️
It's less valued than Juno-6(0) because it doesn't have PWM, self-oscillation, or really fast envelopes.
I'd say the main reason it's under-valued (as in used prices) is totally interface based. People love sliders/knobs - can't blame them - that kind of built in control adds on £100-£200 without even breaking a sweat, it's desirable.. even if the sound isn't as good as something without sliders.

I can't knock that way of thinking though as it's a massive part of why I love the Polysix and JD-800 so much (even though they do also sound great)
Old 24th September 2012
  #15
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rolo's Avatar
 
🎧 15 years
The 3p has it's own sound.. still roland in character, but not like the 106, 60, etc. I like the 3P very much. But if i only had 2-3 synths and the 3p was one of them, id say id get bored with it. it is a little limited and a little muddy sounding at that, more so than any other roland analog i own or have used.
my 3p chain is...
the 3p into 2 ch of Neve 1073 into the Summit dual channel pultec eq.
Lovely sound.
Old 24th September 2012
  #16
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NoVi's Avatar
 
🎧 10 years
JX3P has a great, unique sound. It's my favorit synth when it comes to slamming together a sound fast on a polyphonic synth. It's one the easiest and most fun synths out there to program. Regretfully my JX3P broke down a few months ago, I believe one of the sound chips went broke and seems impossible to repair... I'm a bit hesitant to buy another one, I'm not sure if they break down easily
Old 24th September 2012 | Show parent
  #17
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DesolationBlvd's Avatar
 
🎧 5 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rogue Ai ➡️
It does (sort of) if you sync both oscs and modulate the pitch of osc 2. It's actually the only poly I have that has sync.
Yeah, I tried that, I got some screwy pipe organ sound instead of a PWM pad.

Let me get this straight:

DCO 1: octave up
DCO 2: pulse with vibrato

Right?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Pro5 ➡️
I do prefer it to the Juno(s) in terms of basic sound/features - but Junos are more instantly fun/playable (but ultimately a bit... uhmmm after a while - IMO). I much prefer it to the 8P/10! Totally different synths when you have them next to each other - sound is chalk and cheese (with 8P being the cheese) 3P sounds analog, 8P you can get JD-800, D-50 etc and get close enough in sound (and filter on the JD) and way more besides.
Hey, I like cheese. 8P would be the chalk. heh

Quote:
Originally Posted by Pro5 ➡️
..."Enverope?"

Quote:
Originally Posted by Pro5 ➡️
I'd say the main reason it's under-valued (as in used prices) is totally interface based.
I was talking about 3P + PG in the quoted section. I only mentioned the audio differences because the non-audio differences (arpeggiator vs. MIDI and step sequencer) cancel each other out.

The Roland 1983 advertisement said the JX-3P + PG-200 was just $100 less than the Juno-60.


The real power of the JX is when you combine detuning and chorus.
Old 25th September 2012
  #18
Deleted User
Guest
That's WAY too much...I'd say for both top of the mark together would be $500
Old 25th September 2012
  #19
Deleted 9b8a453
Guest
I think it's a reasonable price for mint condition. It's a fun little synth with lot's of character, and the silver knobs of the PG200 are quite satisfying to twiddle with.

It's big let - downs are

1 - You can't tweak the PG200 when triggering the synth with MIDI. (fixable with the Kiwi tech mod kit)

2 - No MOD wheel (fixable by playing from another synth)

3 - There is some stepping, due to the fact that it's computer controlled rather than a true analog control panel.

4 - Stock MIDI implementation is practically stone - age, and the JX3P is in OMNI mode all the time.

5 - It's not a Juno.


It's big brother, the JX8P is more classy, smooth, and sophisticated. It has a bunch off additional features as well, making it more studio friendly and has a FANTASTIC MIDI implementation. It features an unusual grey color scheme but has a nice alphanumeric vacumn florescent display. I like things that glow green in the dark.

They are two quite different synths, but it just depends on your taste. JX3P - cheap n cheerful / JX8P - cool and classy.
Old 25th September 2012 | Show parent
  #20
Deleted User
Guest
Quote:
Originally Posted by EofN ➡️

It's big let - downs are

5 - It's not a Juno.

Really....I hope you mean JUNO 60...Cause to be honest I sold my Juno 106 long before my JX-3P...

Ok fine, cool sub bass sounds good..BUT, ALMOST EVERY sound you make with a 106 has the same plastic character, good for some things NOT for
E V E R Y T H I N G.

The 3P gives you more miles in my opinion, especially if you get the KIWI mod and have the PG
Old 25th September 2012 | Show parent
  #21
Deleted 9b8a453
Guest
Quote:
Originally Posted by FilmNMusicman ➡️
Really....I hope you mean JUNO 60...Cause to be honest I sold my Juno 106 long before my JX-3P...

Ok fine, cool sub bass sounds good..BUT, ALMOST EVERY sound you make with a 106 has the same plastic character, good for some things NOT for
E V E R Y T H I N G.

The 3P gives you more miles in my opinion, especially if you get the KIWI mod and have the PG
Nah I didn't mean anything, it was just sort of a joke because I noticed that there's alot of this Juno worship around here.

It's actually kind of frightening... Like a sinister secret society of religious maniacs or something.
Old 25th September 2012
  #22
Deleted 9b8a453
Guest
Also, the black-with-coloured-stripes-silverbuttons-JX3P is FAR sexier than the grey Junos, and with the PG200 has such a beautiful rack of silver controls with which to play. Very sharp looking synth IMO.
Old 25th September 2012 | Show parent
  #23
Lives for gear
 
3 Reviews written
🎧 10 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by EofN ➡️
It's big brother, the JX8P is more classy, smooth, and sophisticated. It has a bunch off additional features as well, making it more studio friendly and has a FANTASTIC MIDI implementation. It features an unusual grey color scheme but has a nice alphanumeric vacumn florescent display. I like things that glow green in the dark.

They are two quite different synths, but it just depends on your taste. JX3P - cheap n cheerful / JX8P - cool and classy.
The problem is the JX-8P (Of which I previously owned at the same time as the 3P for a couple of years) sounds nothing like the 3P. They probably shouldn't even be compared! 8P does have more features true, it does have a smoother more epic sound, yes, but so do a hundred mega-digitals. You will be very hard pushed to find a better genuinely analog sounding machine like the 3P for the kind of cash they go for. It sounds so vibrant, fresh and clear next to the 8P which sounds woolly, and slightly ugly (when not doing strings).

3P sounds like a 'Super Juno 6' (minus the bass end and PWM etc) - or a mini Jupiter 6, the 8P sounds like a far distant cousin of the earlier Roland line and a bridging point between Roland's analog past and digital future, a future which was perfected in the D-50 and JD-800! 8P/10 fails on a lot of levels for me, other than it's nice pads/strings (but I can get those sounds close enough with a few other synths inc the JD-800), NOTHING digital can approximate the vibe/tone of the 3P but the 8P is no problem being imitated (even in software - the free 8P soft synth is very close, the 3P soft synth is miles away)

Depends on taste and the kind of music you are doing I guess, but 3P was always infinitely more fun/inspiring to create with (and play around with) for me, on the 8P the strings would impress me in isolation - then I'd turn to the 3P, D-50, SY77... AX80, DW-8000... anything ELSE really for the actual recording! I just did not use/like having the 8P in my recorded music that much for some reason, very obvious sonic fingerprint and not great to record with (these days - yes in 1985-1990!). All my other synths sounded vital, or beautiful, or edgey, but the 8P sounded dull and had a weird 'fake plastic' coating to all it's sound (and no the chorus was NOT being used!)

And yes 3P does look cool. DCOs and lack of in built sliders aside - I like to think of it as the JUPITER 3 :P (cos it can make Jupiter 8/6 esque sounds at times, in areas where a Juno can't). The 8P, ok it can make a good attempt at some JP style pads/strings but hasn't got the sonic clarity/sweetness like the 3P (nor the IR3109 filter!) to do much else with conviction.
Old 25th September 2012
  #24
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xanax's Avatar
 
🎧 5 years
I agree with all the above (great post btw) As a long time owner of the JX-10 (JX8p X2) i can't help but find that synth the most boring analog ever, the 3p however is a warm and punchy little synth oozing with character, i'll even say it makes a Juno sound boring!

I think the problem with the 8p/10 is it came out after the DX7 blew up. It's a preset machine, and the architecture and patches are really geared towards emulating acoustic sounds, and the synth hardly sounds analog but kind of hybrid, especially the JX10 ... which ironically was famous for it's acoustic piano emulation... i keep hearing that they are great for strings/pads but i can't say i've ever delved enough into the nightmare editing to program such a patch, guess it's about time i put it on the marketplace and hunt down a 3p!
Old 25th September 2012
  #25
Gear Addict
 
🎧 10 years
I think the most characteristic thing about the JX-8P (and others based on the IR-3R05 VCF) is the rather tame filter. Turn up the resonance and the sound just gets thin and quiet. It might be worse on the 8P/MKS70 than the MKS80 since the DCOs don't have as much harmonic content to start with, compared to the real VCO's of the MKS80 Mk5.

I believe it was done deliberately to allow all 12 DCOs and 6 filters blasting at full volume without any clipping, which is kind of silly. If you know how to program a synth, you reduce the volume yourself in the right places of the signal chain. I rarely go above 85 for Osc 1 or 2 volume and keep the main Amp volume below 100.

It's hardly a "preset machine", though. Architecturally it's just a JX-3p with an extra Env, which comes in very handy for more advanced patches. All Roland synths have kind of aimed at emulating acoustic instruments, including the Jupiter-8. That's just Roland's philosophy. The JX-8P is great for a lot of sounds, just not resonant sweeps or machine gun basslines or sequences (I wouldn't choose a JX-3P either, for those types of sounds).
Old 25th September 2012 | Show parent
  #26
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DesolationBlvd's Avatar
 
🎧 5 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by Deleted 9b8a453 ➡️
Also, the black-with-coloured-stripes-silverbuttons-JX3P is FAR sexier than the grey Junos, and with the PG200 has such a beautiful rack of silver controls with which to play. Very sharp looking synth IMO.
I always thought the JX-3P was the ugly duckling of Roland polys, what with the bender being above the keyboard (as opposed to the side) and not even the standard design.

Finding out that JX was not made by Roland's main team, but their guitar division, it makes sense.

The logo looked like that of a badass toothpaste company, though. If JX-3P was toothpaste, it would make your teeth fall out, but you would gain the ability to blow blizzards and your mouth would taste really fresh.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Pro5 ➡️
DCOs and lack of in built sliders aside - I like to think of it as the JUPITER 3 :P (cos it can make Jupiter 8/6 esque sounds at times, in areas where a Juno can't).
I always called them "Jupiter JX".

Quote:
Originally Posted by JimmiG ➡️
I think the most characteristic thing about the JX-8P (and others based on the IR-3R05 VCF) is the rather tame filter. Turn up the resonance and the sound just gets thin and quiet. It might be worse on the 8P/MKS70 than the MKS80 since the DCOs don't have as much harmonic content to start with, compared to the real VCO's of the MKS80 Mk5.

I believe it was done deliberately to allow all 12 DCOs and 6 filters blasting at full volume without any clipping, which is kind of silly. If you know how to program a synth, you reduce the volume yourself in the right places of the signal chain. I rarely go above 85 for Osc 1 or 2 volume and keep the main Amp volume below 100.
IR3R05 was made for MKS-80 rev. 5 - meaning 16 VCOs and 8 filters screaming away.



No wonder they crippled the resonance so much.

Quote:
Originally Posted by JimmiG ➡️
Architecturally it's just a JX-3p with an extra Env, which comes in very handy for more advanced patches.
But now KIWI-3P is JX-3P with an extra envelope. (Wait, does KIWI speed up the envelope? I never heard anything about it and envelope speed.)

Quote:
Originally Posted by JimmiG ➡️
All Roland synths have kind of aimed at emulating acoustic instruments, including the Jupiter-8. That's just Roland's philosophy.
Where does that leave the Jupiter-6 and its more synth-oriented feature set (extreme sync, multimode filter)?

And in that regard, the switch from IR3R01 to software envelopes was a big loss. IR3R01 had a great "plucked" envelope shape courtesy of ultra-fast attack time and beautiful decay slope.

They also should have put the 12dB mode on more of their instruments. 24dB does great brasses and plucks, but sounds dull on bowed strings (giving you a Juno or JX pad instead of a true string) and woodwinds.
Old 25th September 2012
  #27
Lives for gear
 
🎧 10 years
Well, seems like I made the right choice passing on it at this price - probably wouldn't have gotten much use out of it being that I have the Juno-6 w/ MIDI anyway. But it was a lovely example - too bad I don't have the cash or room just to have synths "to have".
Old 25th September 2012 | Show parent
  #28
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NoVi's Avatar
 
🎧 10 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by FilmNMusicman ➡️
That's WAY too much...I'd say for both top of the mark together would be $500
Well these are not the prices I see. 3P goes for 300 - 500 euro PG200 for 300 euro. If you're lucky you pay between 600 euro - 800 euro. Lucky, because my impression is that 3P/PG sells usually fast.

These synths are getting rare very fast now, so I think their prices will gradually keep on rising.
Old 26th September 2012 | Show parent
  #29
Deleted User
Guest
Quote:
Originally Posted by NoVi ➡️
Well these are not the prices I see. 3P goes for 300 - 500 euro PG200 for 300 euro. If you're lucky you pay between 600 euro - 800 euro. Lucky, because my impression is that 3P/PG sells usually fast.

These synths are getting rare very fast now, so I think their prices will gradually keep on rising.
Let me know if you want me to ship you one of these JX3P's going for around $300 US to you in the Netherlands, I bought mine for $200 on our local Craigslist, fair condition.

The come up all the time, there are 3 on the CL right now.
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