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Roland JD-800 sticky keys service / repair
Old 10th December 2015 | Show parent
  #61
Lives for gear
 
3 Reviews written
🎧 10 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by Psychlist1972 ➡️
For real? The keyboard is 25 years old. The fact that they even have parts for it today is amazing.

Good keybeds are expensive (and the new keybed *is* good). Not sure where the politics and gifts part is coming from.

Pete
.......politics make and vote laws....
...and everybody know "how".....

warranty on products is a law !

the problem about jd800 and other roland bad keyboards
start much more than 10 years ago...

and about roland can take 1 model in any moment from actual production and
adapt , or supply a kit for diy ,

as many other Serious manufacturers of music-audio devices do ,

a keyboard is a keyboard nothing else...
and the cost about , is ridiculous ,
seen where they are produced
(a worker is paid less than 50 usd a mount ..., Bangladesh about 10-15 usd)
Old 10th December 2015 | Show parent
  #62
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Psychlist1972's Avatar
 
🎧 5 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by wavewalker ➡️
.......politics make and vote laws....
...and everybody know "how".....

warranty on products is a law !

the problem about jd800 and other roland bad keyboards
start much more than 10 years ago...

and about roland can take 1 model in any moment from actual production and
adapt , or supply a kit for diy ,

as many other Serious manufacturers of music-audio devices do ,

a keyboard is a keyboard nothing else...
and the cost about , is ridiculous ,
seen where they are produced
(a worker is paid less than 50 usd a mount ..., Bangladesh about 10-15 usd)
The keyboard is custom to what Roland built in 1990. It's not an off the shelf part. It has the screw holes in the right places, it has the right mounting height, the right aftertouch/pressure response, the right connector. PLUS it's made in very small quantities and with quite a bit of bent steel. Yes, they are made in China. No you can't reasonably adapt a brand new off the shelf keyboard, with the same specs, for less.

If I go to Synthesizers.com and look at their controllers, their 61 key keyboard (fatar 61 key semi-weighted keybed with aftertouch/pressure), no sides, or power, runs $475, almost certainly sold in higher quantities than the Roland bed.

Roland supplied a free version for something like 20 years (2010ish). That's pretty good service if you ask me, and well beyond any normal warranty for an electronic device.

You're seem to be acting quite entitled here, demanding that Roland do something no other manufacturer does or should have to. Roland has done the right thing on this keyboard, and continues to supply one you can purchase if you happened to have waited 25 years to notice any problem.

The new keybed is quite nice. Even if you didn't have the red glue problem, a keyboard with a lot of travel on it for 25 years would really benefit from it. The action is so much better than the one I previously had, and most of that comes down to springs and wear over the years.

Pete
Old 11th December 2015 | Show parent
  #63
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3 Reviews written
🎧 10 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by Psychlist1972 ➡️
The keyboard .............. No you can't reasonably adapt a brand new off the shelf keyboard, with the same specs, for less.
...just a "parallel" midi input from an adapted "spare" keyboard

Quote:
Originally Posted by Psychlist1972 ➡️
If I go to Synthesizers.com and look at their controllers, their 61 key keyboard (fatar 61 key semi-weighted keybed with aftertouch/pressure), no sides, or power, runs $475, almost certainly sold in higher quantities than the Roland bed.
that price is for "standard" end user ... not that at production...
the "exception" for customers is a must in case of "errors"
....wolkswagen for example...


Quote:
Originally Posted by Psychlist1972 ➡️
Roland supplied a free version for something like 20 years (2010ish). That's pretty good service if you ask me, and well beyond any normal warranty for an electronic device.
never heard anything about from roland !!!

only request too much hundreds of bucks for fix a faulty wrong part
incorrectly produced !!!!!
Old 6th April 2016 | Show parent
  #64
Here for the gear
 
🎧 5 years
Called Roland yesterday looking for a new keybed as my JD800 glue issue is very bad.
They still have the part, new cost is $550
Old 6th April 2016 | Show parent
  #65
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aaeronn's Avatar
 
🎧 10 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by mbizon ➡️
Called Roland yesterday looking for a new keybed as my JD800 glue issue is very bad.
They still have the part, new cost is $550
So .... when this thread started, the replacement cost was roughly 350, when I called Roland a few months ago the cost quoted was 425 and now it's 550.

That approaching the cost of the entire machine
Old 6th April 2016 | Show parent
  #66
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Psychlist1972's Avatar
 
🎧 5 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by aaeronn ➡️
So .... when this thread started, the replacement cost was roughly 350, when I called Roland a few months ago the cost quoted was 425 and now it's 550.

That approaching the cost of the entire machine
It's a low quantity part run. They probably sell two a year. That kind of manufacturing ends up costing real money because they have to set up custom tooling, and them amortize that time, and assembly, across just a few units.

The entire JD-800, if available new today, would be like $5200. It was $2900 in 1991.

Pete
Old 6th April 2016 | Show parent
  #67
Gear Maniac
 
🎧 10 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by aaeronn ➡️
So .... when this thread started, the replacement cost was roughly 350, when I called Roland a few months ago the cost quoted was 425 and now it's 550.

That approaching the cost of the entire machine
Just fix it yourself, it isn't that hard, but costs some time
Old 6th April 2016
  #68
Gear Nut
 
🎧 5 years
OK so before coughing up $560 to Roland I decided I'd give one more go at repairing the keyboard.

I found a bottle of Sodium Metasilicate / Butyl Cellosolve "cleaning solution" in the garage. It needs to be diluted like Sodium Hydroxide (Lye) would. Any reason why this wouldn't work also? If I'm going to save money I might as well use what I have.

The second problem is that even after replacing the rubber contact strips about 3 years ago with new ones, I've started to get flaky triggering notes AGAIN. Oye.
Old 6th April 2016 | Show parent
  #69
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Psychlist1972's Avatar
 
🎧 5 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by thedealman ➡️
OK so before coughing up $560 to Roland I decided I'd give one more go at repairing the keyboard.

I found a bottle of Sodium Metasilicate / Butyl Cellosolve "cleaning solution" in the garage. It needs to be diluted like Sodium Hydroxide (Lye) would. Any reason why this wouldn't work also? If I'm going to save money I might as well use what I have.

The second problem is that even after replacing the rubber contact strips about 3 years ago with new ones, I've started to get flaky triggering notes AGAIN. Oye.
I have no idea, but I recommend trying it on a single key first. Use the highest key on the keyboard as that's the least used in most cases. What you're looking for is a reaction with the plastic on the keys. Many industrial cleaners/solvents will soften the plastic, discolor it, or otherwise make the key unusable. In some cases, it'll be fine after it dries, in others, it's an irreversible process.

Looks like Sodium Metasilicate isn't all that bad or strong, though, so may be worth a try. Just wear gloves.

Sodium Hydroxide is a completely different thing.

Pete
Old 6th April 2016
  #70
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Psychlist1972's Avatar
 
🎧 5 years
BTW, the key action on the new Roland keyboard is nice. I didn't realize how loose the old action had gotten.

Finally, make sure the pads on your current keyboard aren't full of that resin. Same with the PCB and aftertouch stuff. If they are, it's just not worth trying to clean it.

Pete
Old 7th April 2016
  #71
Gear Nut
 
🎧 5 years
Wow this stuff works a treat. It's only been 60 to 90 minutes and the glue is >50% off the keys!

I'm wearing gloves but I know I splashed a drop on myself here or there and I can't say I feel any burn or smell any heavy fumes.
Will take pics and report back.
Old 7th April 2016
  #72
Gear Nut
 
🎧 5 years
I forgot to ask before, but I didn't even realize the black keys had weights. Do those fall out after the bath? I didn't see mention of gluing back the weights for the black keys...

Update: white keys are glue free. Black keys just noticing the glue bubbling up from around the weights. This could take a while... Solution is cold. Wonder if it's still working. About 15 hours in.
Old 11th April 2016
  #73
Gear Nut
 
🎧 5 years
Just updating. The red glue is now gone. I also cleaned the key contact board with an eraser followed by isopropyl alcohol. All the notes are sounding again, except 3 of them are going to max velocity with minimal strike force. Wish that wasn't the case, but I think I can live with it instead of coughing up $560 to Roland for new keys.
Old 27th November 2016
  #74
Here for the gear
 
After the NaOH bathing of the large weights [which are made of iron (Fe)?], they dried and became a bit rusted (the small ones which are made from lead (Pb), they are ok).

I tried to bathe them:
- in soda bicarbonate
- in baking powder,
- in metal cleaning fluid,
- in vinegar and soda.

I tried electrolysis too...

This is the best result: https://postimg.org/image/6n0uofyy5
https://postimg.org/image/pqu64sbsd

What should I use to get rid of the rust (it does not come off by hand wiping) and finally re-glue the weights? Rust caustic? Corrosion protection (such as WD-40)? Paint? Anti-corrosion paint?
Old 29th November 2016 | Show parent
  #75
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Psychlist1972's Avatar
 
🎧 5 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by roys ➡️
After the NaOH bathing of the large weights [which are made of iron (Fe)?], they dried and became a bit rusted (the small ones which are made from lead (Pb), they are ok).

I tried to bathe them:
- in soda bicarbonate
- in baking powder,
- in metal cleaning fluid,
- in vinegar and soda.

I tried electrolysis too...

This is the best result: https://postimg.org/image/6n0uofyy5
https://postimg.org/image/pqu64sbsd

What should I use to get rid of the rust (it does not come off by hand wiping) and finally re-glue the weights? Rust caustic? Corrosion protection (such as WD-40)? Paint? Anti-corrosion paint?
I've never tried it with anything I planned to glue, but on my power tools, I've used Boeshield Rust Free and T-9 to take the rust off of large cast-iron surfaces.
Boeshield 3-Part Tool Care Kits and Lubricant - Rockler Woodworking Tools

Pete
Old 8th December 2016
  #76
Lives for gear
 
🎧 10 years
guys, instead of trying to fix a defective design and wasting a whole bunch of time ending up with a keyboard thats still not right, how about just gutting a used 5 octave midi controller and installing it in the JD800 instead?
mini
Old 9th December 2016 | Show parent
  #77
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Psychlist1972's Avatar
 
🎧 5 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by minime123 ➡️
guys, instead of trying to fix a defective design and wasting a whole bunch of time ending up with a keyboard thats still not right, how about just gutting a used 5 octave midi controller and installing it in the JD800 instead?
mini
Possible, but:

Would likely require drilling different holes, the key height might not line up, and you'd have to hack together a midi cable and connect to the MIDI jack. If you plan to also use the MIDI jack at the same time, you'd need a MIDI merge box.

I know the replacement keyboard has gotten quite expensive, but it really is a quality keybed.

Another option would be to buy a keybed, figure out how the JD-800 does the key scanning, and then substitute an Arduino or something in there to interface between the two. Unfortunately, now that no one is selling semi-weighted Fatar synth keybeds w/pressure to the public, that's even more challenging. (Doepfer used to do it).

Pete
Old 9th December 2016 | Show parent
  #78
Lives for gear
 
🎧 10 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by Psychlist1972 ➡️
Possible, but:

Would likely require drilling different holes, the key height might not line up, and you'd have to hack together a midi cable and connect to the MIDI jack. If you plan to also use the MIDI jack at the same time, you'd need a MIDI merge box.

I know the replacement keyboard has gotten quite expensive, but it really is a quality keybed.

Another option would be to buy a keybed, figure out how the JD-800 does the key scanning, and then substitute an Arduino or something in there to interface between the two. Unfortunately, now that no one is selling semi-weighted Fatar synth keybeds w/pressure to the public, that's even more challenging. (Doepfer used to do it).

Pete
thanks pete. our tech loves doing stuff like this. we just have to take a look at what it will cost us versus what it would cost to just buy a new keyboard mechanism from roland.
mini
Old 15th January 2017 | Show parent
  #79
Gear Head
 
🎧 5 years
You are correct Psychlist1972, It's actually quite impressive that they still carry these parts and/or are willing to do some one off's or small batches. I just meant 'sad' for my pocketbook as well as 'sad' about the design. After taking it all apart it's very apparent what a bad design this was.

That being said, I fixed it! I called Roland and ordered all of the parts they still had. Unfortunately they said they no longer carry the Connector Board so I followed the extremely helpful and detailed instructions provided by Goa Travellers and successfully resoldered the old connector board!

Thanks Goa Travellers!
Quote:
Gearslutz Pro Audio Community - View Single Post - JD800 keyboard replacement and pa



Post 8874414 - Forum for professional and amateur recording engineers to share techniques and advice.
Old 11th September 2017
  #80
Here for the gear
 
🎧 5 years
Hey everyone, some of the keys in my JD800 weren't responding at all and after discovering this thread i opened the synth and took care of the glue issue. The problem now however is that even more of the keys aren't working. I did clean the contact point of the rubber strips and the board they are pressed down onto with Kontakt 60. If that's what killed the keys, why did it happen and is there a remedy? Could it be something else?

Any help is most appreciated!
Old 11th September 2017 | Show parent
  #81
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flat's Avatar
 
🎧 10 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by hrtmn ➡️
Hey everyone, some of the keys in my JD800 weren't responding at all and after discovering this thread i opened the synth and took care of the glue issue. The problem now however is that even more of the keys aren't working. I did clean the contact point of the rubber strips and the board they are pressed down onto with Kontakt 60. If that's what killed the keys, why did it happen and is there a remedy? Could it be something else?

Any help is most appreciated!
Its worth replacing the 5 contact strips entirely imo.

I cleaned some of my original ones with a pencil eraser to get them back to life, but they intermittently missfired. I ended up buying the 5 strips (which were cheap at the time). Im not sure if they are still available, but its worth contacting Roland, because when I replaced them, it all came back to life 100%

(this has nothing to do with the red glue problem btw)

If you read the very bottom paragraph from my 1st page of this thread, I mentioned this. However, the place I got them from no longer has them, I suspect Roland themselves are the best bet.
Old 14th March 2018
  #82
Gear Head
 
🎧 10 years
My D70 was in storage and it looks like I've caught the red glue problem just in time.
I'm planning to clean the exposed glue and then 'seal' in the remaining red glue using another glue/epoxy.

Can the folks that have done this already - what glue/epoxy did you use and did you hit any unforeseen issues?

Last edited by cjomuk; 14th March 2018 at 04:54 AM.. Reason: Add photo link
Old 14th March 2018 | Show parent
  #83
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flat's Avatar
 
🎧 10 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by cjomuk ➡️
My D70 was in storage and it looks like I've caught the red glue problem just in time.
I'm planning to clean the exposed glue and then 'seal' in the remaining red glue using another glue/epoxy.

Can the folks that have done this already - what glue/epoxy did you use and did you hit any unforeseen issues?
I used clear silicone sealant. Whatever you use, don't use too much as it can add to the weight and feel of the key.

I sold my JD800 some time ago, so I can't report if it held up, but seemed fine whilst I had it.
Old 14th March 2018
  #84
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Psychlist1972's Avatar
 
🎧 5 years
You need to check the black keys. Those are the ones that usually leak on the board and contacts.

Pete
Old 10th May 2018
  #85
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whinecellar's Avatar
 
1 Review written
🎧 10 years
Hey Guys,

I think I’ve read through this entire thread and there’s one question I haven’t seen answered: Worst case, can the JD 800 simply be used as a sound module (controlled by another keyboard) with the front panel sliders active, etc. if the keyboard has gone bad? Obviously I know it will receive MIDI, so I guess the question is, can the internal keybed simply be disconnected and the synth still operate?

I have a line on a pristine JD800 that I’m tempted to jump on. The owner claims the red glue issue hasn’t been a problem for him (yet anyway) but there are several keys that don’t respond at all. I called Roland already and unfortunately they don’t supply the replacement key bed anymore. If I jumped on it, the first thing I would do is seal all the keys with hot glue to prevent the red glue issue, and I’d try to sort out the bad keys hoping it’s just dirty contacts.

Worst case though, I’d just use it in a stack of other synths and play it from another - as long as I can still tweak using the front panel sliders. It’s such an iconic piece of gear that I’ve always wanted - just trying to weigh the risks.

Thanks in advance!

Jim
Old 20th October 2018
  #86
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Musicncars's Avatar
 
🎧 5 years
My jd800 has the red glue issue. The weights have fallen half off and stuck from top to bottom. The sad thing is, I paid a synth tech a few years ago to solve the glue problem, which, obviously, he didn’t. So, now, I need to find someone who knows what they are doing. If you buy a new keybed from Roland, are they still using red glue? I’d like to get this resolved.
Old 20th October 2018 | Show parent
  #87
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Psychlist1972's Avatar
 
🎧 5 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by Musicncars ➡️
My jd800 has the red glue issue. The weights have fallen half off and stuck from top to bottom. The sad thing is, I paid a synth tech a few years ago to solve the glue problem, which, obviously, he didn’t. So, now, I need to find someone who knows what they are doing. If you buy a new keybed from Roland, are they still using red glue? I’d like to get this resolved.
No new keybeds from Roland, unfortunately. When Roland was making them, they were not using red glue, but were using a black glue instead.

I've been thinking of making a small adapter so you could drop in a Fatar keybed (snagged from a controller keyboard or something, since you cannot buy them yourself) work with this. I've just never gotten around to it. Someone should do this to help the JD-800 community.

Quote:
Originally Posted by whinecellar ➡️
Hey Guys,

I think I’ve read through this entire thread and there’s one question I haven’t seen answered: Worst case, can the JD 800 simply be used as a sound module (controlled by another keyboard) with the front panel sliders active, etc. if the keyboard has gone bad? Obviously I know it will receive MIDI, so I guess the question is, can the internal keybed simply be disconnected and the synth still operate?

I have a line on a pristine JD800 that I’m tempted to jump on. The owner claims the red glue issue hasn’t been a problem for him (yet anyway) but there are several keys that don’t respond at all. I called Roland already and unfortunately they don’t supply the replacement key bed anymore. If I jumped on it, the first thing I would do is seal all the keys with hot glue to prevent the red glue issue, and I’d try to sort out the bad keys hoping it’s just dirty contacts.

Worst case though, I’d just use it in a stack of other synths and play it from another - as long as I can still tweak using the front panel sliders. It’s such an iconic piece of gear that I’ve always wanted - just trying to weigh the risks.

Thanks in advance!

Jim
Late reply.

Yes, you can use it as a module. Yes, you can disconnect the keyboard, but you don't need to unless you want to. I've seen a photo or two of this done.

Ah, here you go:


Note that you'll likely need to replace some of the tact switches on the front panel, and clean the sliders. Typical old synth maintenance stuff.

Pete
Old 3rd December 2019
  #88
Lives for gear
 
🎧 5 years
Just about to embark on cleaning the red goo from my JD800 and was just checking in in 2019 to see if anyone had sourced any of the keybeds by any chance?
Old 3rd December 2019
  #89
Gear Nut
 
papasan's Avatar
 
I rebuilt the keybed in my JD. I bought new contact strips and used keys with weights to replace the ones that were missing weights off of eBay. One key I couldn't find so I got an extra and moved the weight to the existing key and glued with silicone. Everything works like new.
Old 26th May 2020
  #90
Gear Head
Red Glue and rust issues

I had a rusty area under the keybed. I sanded it, removed the dust and then painted the whole under keybed area using Rustoleum gray metalic colored paint. My white key weights got rusty before I glued them back in place. I cleaned the rust off in seconds using a sanding block (a small brick size piece of hard foam with a tough abrasive sanding layer on top).

Be vey careful. The stuff that works to remove the red gue without damage to the keys is sodium hydroxide. Sodium Hydroxide (caustic soda) is drain cleaner. It will burn you on contact, Wear goggles or a face shield to protect your eyes from any splashing and wear rubber gloves on your hands. Immediately wash it off with lots of water in the shower if you get any on you. A laundry tub is a good place to keep the plastic bucket with the keys and drain cleaner while it is working. Depending on the strenth of the solution, it will take one or two days to completely dissolve the glue and release the keys. I have done two of these. For the first one I was using Sodium Hydroxide. Working with the drain cleaner got me burned on my feet and on my face. (I am clumsy and have no laundry tub). On the second one I did not remove the weights. I used thick Loctite G02 glue to seal the red glue in place on the white keys and thin Duco glue to seal the weights in the black keys. Much safer. Drain cleaner in a bucket has a way of splashing even if you are careful.

For the first one I glued the weights to the white keys and the black keys using Duco clear cement glue. Will not damage the keys but it has very strong vapors. Use outside or with a fan on you to blow the vapors away. I also recommend using a face shield. The vapors are very irritating to the eyes.

Study how the five black key stop strips are placed before you remove them to remove the keys. There is insufficient info on Youtube about replacing them. Take pictures. Mark each strip with colored tape. You will be glad you did.
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