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Oberheim Xpander alternatives?
Old 18th September 2012 | Show parent
  #61
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rolo's Avatar
 
🎧 15 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ghosted ➑️
A matrix 1000 does not sound like an Xpander any more than an MKS-50 sounds like an MKS-80.

Common tone? Yes. But it's like buying a Slim Phatty when you really wanted the Voyager. It's a waste of money because you'll never be satisfied.
nope, not true. i have a pretty good ear and 25 years of buying, using and selling synths. i HAD an xpander for a decade, the matrixS ( S indicateing i am using TWO) sound better than en xpander to me and a few other synth geeks i know.

BTW, bith the LP and the Voyager sound like muddy junk to me.
Old 18th September 2012 | Show parent
  #62
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clusterchord's Avatar
 
🎧 15 years
@Rolo: i don't think anyone is questioning you like two m1000 better than Xpander. its your taste, your opinion etc.

however, if you are implying they sound the same, that would in my experience with both machines, be absolutely false.

bottom line, two detuned, or panned out DCO synths do not sound like one VCO synth like Xpander. it just does not work that way. even with some traces of kinship in character, overall its a differet sound - consequence of fundamental design differences in oscillator, in filter design, even in VCAs used.
Old 18th September 2012
  #63
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kevin nowhow's Avatar
 
🎧 10 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by Demokid ➑️
Just love this track! :D

The Alesis Andromeda A6 can sound a bit like an Expander but the Expander has much more filter capabilities.
Damn, still can't open Ghosted's links...:(
Old 18th September 2012
  #64
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kevin nowhow's Avatar
 
🎧 10 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by lestermagneto ➑️
Seems like I am out of luck. I actually just had dinner with Bon Harris of Nitzer Ebb this evening (mentioned earlier in the thread), and he said the closest he had seen for any kind of librarian/editor for the Xpander/Matrix12 was some Cubase stuff he had seen some friends do.
That was the alternative i mentioned earlier.Unfortunately it this is deep stuff for me & it does require a lot of work...or charity in the case of people willing to give you the template.
Quote:
Originally Posted by lestermagneto ➑️
Wish sounddiver or Opcodes Galaxy was still in existence, but there obviously isn't the demand or $$ for such a thing.
True.I really liked Sounddiver but it turned into oblivion.Someone mentioned it should become public domain & it makes sense, at least to me.
Quote:
Originally Posted by lestermagneto ➑️
And as someone mentioned earlier, yeah, it would be great if Arturia or G-Force would go down the path of a VA of said synths, GForce's Imposcar 2 I think implements an oberheim style filter, so I imagine they spent the time to model that, and the SEM by arturia has gone down similar roads, ... but the world could need a virtual xpander more then another 808/minimoog/2oscsynth emulation that's for sure... there are many VA's with deep modulation routing, but i haven't heard one quite capture that... but then again, the xpander and matrix 12 are a BEAST to program, at least for me, I seem to forget how to work the thing everytime i turn it on... but that's probably just many years and many beers under the bridge sadly...
Yeah, that was me.I really dig Arturia's efforts.Excellent products & G-Force's ImpOscar was one of my favorites, mainly for the filter!
Old 18th September 2012 | Show parent
  #65
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🎧 10 years
I have been wondering if a PolyEvolver can pull off a decent Xpander impersonation.
Old 18th September 2012
  #66
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kevin nowhow's Avatar
 
🎧 10 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by tony666 ➑️
-Akai vx600
-Marion systems (=Tom Oberheim) msr-2 or prosynth

These are unpleasant to programme but definitely a step up in sound compared to M1000/Cheetah ms-6 / Matrix6? ... and still cheaper than an Xpander ...
I've heard that the Prosynth lacks in sound in comparison to other synths of that league.Don't know if it's true however, just something that i've picked up somewhere...
Old 18th September 2012 | Show parent
  #67
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🎧 5 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by kevin nowhow ➑️
I've heard that the Prosynth lacks in sound in comparison to other synths of that league.Don't know if it's true however, just something that i've picked up somewhere...
Same chips as prophet 8. Supposed to sound rather similar.
Old 18th September 2012 | Show parent
  #68
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bluegreengold ➑️
Same chips as prophet 8. Supposed to sound rather similar.
I just had that thought right now too
Old 18th September 2012
  #69
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kevin nowhow's Avatar
 
🎧 10 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by bluegreengold ➑️
Same chips as prophet 8. Supposed to sound rather similar.
Got it.
Anyone want to comment on the Doepfer module(A-106-6)?Any experiences, opinions or speculations?
Old 18th September 2012 | Show parent
  #70
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rolo's Avatar
 
🎧 15 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by clusterchord ➑️
@Rolo: i don't think anyone is questioning you like two m1000 better than Xpander. its your taste, your opinion etc.

however, if you are implying they sound the same, that would in my experience with both machines, be absolutely false.

bottom line, two detuned, or panned out DCO synths do not sound like one VCO synth like Xpander. it just does not work that way. even with some traces of kinship in character, overall its a differet sound - consequence of fundamental design differences in oscillator, in filter design, even in VCAs used.
perhaps you did not read my first reply... my post was to the OP's "are there any alternatives to an Xpander",and yes it is my opinion that two M1000s are an alternative to an xpander. is that my opinion... yes it is.
Old 19th September 2012 | Show parent
  #71
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🎧 10 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by sctt_stone ➑️
I have been wondering if a PolyEvolver can pull off a decent Xpander impersonation.
It's a little difficult without a resonant highpass, bandpass, notch, and various combinations of these with the various lowpass filter options. The PEK is mainly a 24db lowpass based synth. And it has dco's instead of the xpander's vco's.
So i'm gonna go with "no" as an aswer.
Old 19th September 2012 | Show parent
  #72
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🎧 10 years
I gotta say I get the most use out of my Xpanders 4, 2, and 1 pole low pass filters, Also the 1 pole High pass. The rest of the filters create too much off a volume drop or are muddy to my ears. However I have fallen in love with the synth over the past few weeks. This is the only synth I have owned that is best aproached as a palette of tonal options rather than a paticular sound in a mix. Once I got my head around multi's and the fact that in single mode having only 1 voice activated often sounds best my use of it took off. Also in single mode activating all voices but with one osc and only 1 wave form is a sonic joy. I have found that the sheen people talk about disliking from the Xpander comes from having all of the voices with both osc engagd. Although this sounds great on most synths with the Xpander there seems to come a muddy build up when using all voices and more than 1 osc in single mode. I predict that this is a sound that will soon be back in vouge, much like the Juno line is at the moment.
Old 19th September 2012
  #73
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kevin nowhow's Avatar
 
🎧 10 years
How about Kontakt loaded with Xpander waveforms(if those can be found)?
Old 19th September 2012
  #74
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Alek's Avatar
 
🎧 5 years
Nothing like a Xpander in terms of routing, and the sound is rich and warm, classic and experimental sounds, all in one (beautiful) synth...
Old 19th September 2012 | Show parent
  #75
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kevin nowhow ➑️
How about Kontakt loaded with Xpander waveforms(if those can be found)?
Actually, my very best pad that I use all the time, and has become almost like a secret weapon to me, is a sample of my Xpander that I doubled and slightly detuned, made to stereo and set the filter cut off to the mod wheel. It is soo awesome (but I have it still in EXS24 format). It fits perfectly to almost everything, for programming in my DAW as well as live. So I have to admit there are great posibilities with Xpander samples.
Old 19th September 2012
  #76
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kevin nowhow's Avatar
 
🎧 10 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by Analog Prophet ➑️
Actually, my very best pad that I use all the time, and has become almost like a secret weapon to me, is a sample of my Xpander that I doubled and slightly detuned, made to stereo and set the filter cut off to the mod wheel. It is soo awesome (but I have it still in EXS24 format). It fits perfectly to almost everything, for programming in my DAW as well as live. So I have to admit there are great posibilities with Xpander samples.
The filter you mentioned...was that the EXS24 filter mapped to modwheel?Or did you sample the sweep from the synth itself?
Old 19th September 2012 | Show parent
  #77
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🎧 5 years
The Xpander has no unison detune function. There is a workaround for recording:

The multi edit buffer is retained when you turn the synth off. This means you can detune all the singles in a multi and it will retain the massive solo detune patch until you switch multi programs.
Old 20th September 2012
  #78
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kevin nowhow's Avatar
 
🎧 10 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ghosted ➑️
The Xpander has no unison detune function. There is a workaround for recording:

The multi edit buffer is retained when you turn the synth off. This means you can detune all the singles in a multi and it will retain the massive solo detune patch until you switch multi programs.
If i got your post right, i believe what Analog Prophet meant was to load the Xpander sample twice & slightly detune them in relation to one another.Exactly like the "Charlie" rave sound was done.
Old 20th September 2012 | Show parent
  #79
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🎧 5 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by kevin nowhow ➑️
If i got your post right, i believe what Analog Prophet meant was to load the Xpander sample twice & slightly detune them in relation to one another.Exactly like the "Charlie" rave sound was done.
I know. I was talking about how to achieve that effect on the actual Xpander.
Old 20th September 2012
  #80
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kevin nowhow's Avatar
 
🎧 10 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ghosted ➑️
I know. I was talking about how to achieve that effect on the actual Xpander.
Oh...Gotcha, sorry for that.

So can you save that setting as part of the multi?
Old 20th September 2012 | Show parent
  #81
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🎧 10 years
Or, you could simply save 6 differant solo patches of the same sound all detuned from one another and then assighn them to a multi. Eats up your space but then you always have it.
Old 20th September 2012
  #82
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kevin nowhow's Avatar
 
🎧 10 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by sctt_stone ➑️
Or, you could simply save 6 differant solo patches of the same sound all detuned from one another and then assighn them to a multi. Eats up your space but then you always have it.
True.Didn't think of the obvious...
Old 20th September 2012 | Show parent
  #83
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kevin nowhow ➑️
If i got your post right, i believe what Analog Prophet meant was to load the Xpander sample twice & slightly detune them in relation to one another.Exactly like the "Charlie" rave sound was done.
Yes, that's a good interpretation of the Prophet Regarding the filter of the mod wheel I use the 4-pole filter of the EXS24. And some reverb of course makes it shine.
Old 21st September 2012 | Show parent
  #84
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🎧 10 years
What is this Charlie rave sound you speak of?
Old 21st September 2012 | Show parent
  #85
Gear Maniac
 
🎧 5 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by lestermagneto ➑️
Seems like I am out of luck. I actually just had dinner with Bon Harris of Nitzer Ebb this evening (mentioned earlier in the thread), and he said the closest he had seen for any kind of librarian/editor for the Xpander/Matrix12 was some Cubase stuff he had seen some friends do. Midi/Soundqwest or whatever was a clusterfrag for me, seemed to screw up everything. Wish sounddiver or Opcodes Galaxy was still in existence, but there obviously isn't the demand or $$ for such a thing.
And as someone mentioned earlier, yeah, it would be great if Arturia or G-Force would go down the path of a VA of said synths, GForce's Imposcar 2 I think implements an oberheim style filter, so I imagine they spent the time to model that, and the SEM by arturia has gone down similar roads, ... but the world could need a virtual xpander more then another 808/minimoog/2oscsynth emulation that's for sure... there are many VA's with deep modulation routing, but i haven't heard one quite capture that... but then again, the xpander and matrix 12 are a BEAST to program, at least for me, I seem to forget how to work the thing everytime i turn it on... but that's probably just many years and many beers under the bridge sadly...
I am NOT out of luck..
I use THIS:
Xplorer - realtime editor for Oberheim Xpander / Matrix-12

It's just FANTASTIC!
Makes my hardware Xpander programmable from the computer just like any softsynth!
Old 21st September 2012
  #86
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kevin nowhow's Avatar
 
🎧 10 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by sctt_stone ➑️
What is this Charlie rave sound you speak of?
As far as I know it was named as such by the Prodigy song "Charly" (did I write it as "Charlie"?My bad).Do you remember that bendy, hoovery rave sound featured on the song & on pretty much everyone else around that time?That's the one.

EDIT: Others refer to it as the "mentasm" & there are quite a few interpretations on how to achieve it...
Old 22nd September 2012 | Show parent
  #87
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🎧 5 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by kevin nowhow ➑️
As far as I know it was named as such by the Prodigy song "Charly" (did I write it as "Charlie"?My bad).Do you remember that bendy, hoovery rave sound featured on the song & on pretty much everyone else around that time?That's the one.

EDIT: Others refer to it as the "mentasm" & there are quite a few interpretations on how to achieve it...
I don't think that's an Xpander, it sounds exactly like an Alpha Juno. In fact It sounds like a sample of the Juno, because the pitch envelope speeds up during the transposition part.

As far as I know the Prodigy never used an Xpander on their old material.

Old 23rd September 2012
  #88
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kevin nowhow's Avatar
 
🎧 10 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ghosted ➑️
I don't think that's an Xpander, it sounds exactly like an Alpha Juno. In fact It sounds like a sample of the Juno, because the pitch envelope speeds up during the transposition part.

As far as I know the Prodigy never used an Xpander on their old material.

And you are absolutely correct on everything, from the "sample" assumption to the machine used.I was just replying to Sctt_Stone about what is the "Charly" sound I was talking about, which I brought up because Analog Prophet mentioned sampling his Xpander & detuning 2 copies of it, which in turn is what I've read The Prodigy did on the "mentasm" sample they used on "Charly".
Old 23rd September 2012 | Show parent
  #89
BM0
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1 Review written
🎧 10 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by kevin nowhow ➑️
I've heard that the Prosynth lacks in sound in comparison to other synths of that league.Don't know if it's true however, just something that i've picked up somewhere...
ProSynth video on YouTube (not my video)


I recorded this short demo of the MSR-2 (same as ProSynth, but it can hold 2x 8 voice boards). The song is Bela Bartok that I played on the MSR-2.


Regardless, not many ProSynths and MSR-2s were made, so they can be difficult to find. Xpander is unique, especially because of the filter. ProSynth/MSR-2 doesn't have a multimode filter.
Old 24th September 2012
  #90
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kevin nowhow's Avatar
 
🎧 10 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by BM0 ➑️
ProSynth video on YouTube (not my video)


I recorded this short demo of the MSR-2 (same as ProSynth, but it can hold 2x 8 voice boards). The song is Bela Bartok that I played on the MSR-2.


Regardless, not many ProSynths and MSR-2s were made, so they can be difficult to find. Xpander is unique, especially because of the filter. ProSynth/MSR-2 doesn't have a multimode filter.
Those 2 sound damn fine to me.What can i say...word of mouth I guess.Not always reliable.For example, you believe that the filter is special, someone else earlier stated that it's not memorable.Each one of us processes things quite differently & what is excellent for me might be trivial to you.Thank you for these links...very ear-opening...
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