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m127 - Shouldn't Andromeda A6 be named KING?
Old 15th September 2012 | Show parent
  #61
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Old 15th September 2012 | Show parent
  #62
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🎧 10 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by Deleted Userc ➡️
The pad I posted (https://gearspace.com/board/attachme...lade-power.mp3) is small, poor, inexpressive, and weak
+1 (sorry to say)
Old 15th September 2012 | Show parent
  #63
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Old 15th September 2012 | Show parent
  #64
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flat's Avatar
 
🎧 10 years
This was the short sound demo of an A6 pad that got my attention ....

http://www.jefflaity.com/music/MP3/PWM_pad.mp3
Old 15th September 2012
  #65
Gear Maniac
 
🎧 5 years
I don´t know if Andromeda is THE king of all synths but definitely a KING.

It is on top with the Jupiter 8, Elka Synthex, Wave, CS80 and some few others and what it is to me a fact is that it is the ultimate greatest polyanalog synth (With dave Smith´s respect because I love the Poly evolver oh and excluding the Shmidt of course). Someone said in another thread a couple of years ago something completely true aabout Andromeda and it is the fact that very few synth companies have given so much love and passion for a synthesizer as Alesis did at that time. I get impressed with all the stories about how they came out with the name, the design, the effort the money invested to create it, the best guys at that time where in this wonderful project.

If somebody does not like Andromeda I respect that but I also believe that an Andy in excellent programming and musical hands is out of this Galaxy like I said before
Old 15th September 2012 | Show parent
  #66
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NEXUS-6's Avatar
 
🎧 10 years
just work on your programing skills and don't worry about what synth is better..

Cuz at the end of the day thats what counts that and songwriting skill
Old 15th September 2012
  #67
Gear Maniac
 
🎧 10 years
extensively demo'd both the A6 and DS PE. Extremely dissappointed in both. For me its still all about the vintage. Although SE stuff sounds pretty good.
Old 15th September 2012 | Show parent
  #68
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Carey M's Avatar
 
🎧 10 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by flat earth ➡️
This was the short sound demo of an A6 pad that got my attention ....

http://www.jefflaity.com/music/MP3/PWM_pad.mp3
People should stop posting this demo on forums. I can't afford an Andromeda just now.

- CM
Old 16th September 2012
  #69
Gear Head
 
🎧 5 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by Deleted Userc ➡️
Really? Wow! I didn't know over a decade ago there were synth buyers condemning the A6 for being a POS ROMPLER. Damn you synth buyers!!
A6 newbie m127c,

They did not condemn it as ROMpler. But then again, as an A6 newbie, you were not an Andromeda owner when the synth was released. And now you are nothing but a griping whiner.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Deleted Userc ➡️
Mmh, I see. Did I mention anything to you about the price of that pos rompler at all? Can't find any such remark.
No, you missed the entire point as usual. You are obsessed with increasing your post count instead of reading.

Since you have yet to learn it, post count means nothing in most cases -- except in yours where attacking others and seeking a high post count is far more important to you than is making music. Keep writing and before long you will be congratulated on your 10,000th post as you waste your life behind a computer.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Deleted Userc ➡️
Really? Wow! Didn't know that either!! I will write them a check immediately. 3 euro OK?
It's good that you are so well funded. You created this thread because of your insecurity over whether or not the A6 is the best synth ever developed. Instead of enjoying the instrument for what it is, you sought confirmation from others because of your own insecurities.

Change the description below your forum name to BS PROPOGATOR.

You do a better job of insulting forum members and their gear rather than anything else.
Old 16th September 2012 | Show parent
  #70
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Mefistophelees's Avatar
 
🎧 10 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by davidfuego ➡️
I don´t know if Andromeda is THE king of all synths but definitely a KING.

It is on top with the Jupiter 8, Elka Synthex, Wave, CS80 and some few others
I agree. I don't know if it's generally as well regarded as those synths but I think it will get there over time.

That said it's really a programmers' synth. It's deep and it really only gives out what it's capable of after you've learned about how to use its capabilities.

...and foibles, because it has a few of those. The main one being the vast amount of distortion in the synthesis chain. Granted that gives it character and a certain sound but turn it down and it almost becomes a different synth.

It isn't a instant gratification synth, you need a lot of time to play with it and understand it.
Old 16th September 2012 | Show parent
  #71
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Mefistophelees's Avatar
 
🎧 10 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by Deleted Userc ➡️
By the way, anyone would like to explain why disabling the background tuning "produces a better sound"? If there is any, I don't seem to find it "significant" as many put it.

Background tuning is seemingly quite temperamental and can in extreme circumstances appear to kill voice chips (as far as I can tell they're not actually dead though).

I'd switch it off and leave it off. In any case a little bit of drift sounds good.

I keep temperature tuning off as well, though if you need it in tune when it powers up you might want it.

I keep both of these off. It does start up a little out of tune but it drifts back into tune once it's warmed up enough. If not, let it warm up and press tune.


Unfortunately development was killed off before all the bugs could be fixed so it is a bit temperamental.
Old 16th September 2012 | Show parent
  #72
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🎧 10 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by kpsiegel ➡️
The first is that the fastest envelope stage is 2 ms and it would be nice if that could be made faster.
Numbers mean nothing-zero-nada in envelope business. Fastest speced attack time for Pro One is 2ms, so that would mean that Andromeda is in small crowd of snappiest kids on the block.
Old 16th September 2012 | Show parent
  #73
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Old 16th September 2012 | Show parent
  #74
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Old 17th September 2012 | Show parent
  #75
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Old 17th September 2012 | Show parent
  #76
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🎧 5 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by recnsci ➡️
Numbers mean nothing-zero-nada in envelope business. Fastest speced attack time for Pro One is 2ms, so that would mean that Andromeda is in small crowd of snappiest kids on the block.
I don't understand that type of blanket assertion. Obviously for pads you don't care at all but for very fast attack time sounds like percussive effects this does matter. This idea that "numbers mean nothing in the envelope business" puzzles me. Envelope stage times sure are meaningful to me and for good reason. If they meant nothing then you would be fine with envelopes that had minimum attack times of 30 ms right?
Old 17th September 2012
  #77
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6 Reviews written
🎧 10 years
hail m127c, fellow a6 audionaut!

a6 is a great synth. so time to get into mix mode m127c! you are still in the terrestrial atmosphere. mix mode is where it's at! leave the conventional boundaries of music behind. when one note is controlling 16 2oscs all stereo and pitch modulated slightly differently...

Old 17th September 2012 | Show parent
  #78
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🎧 10 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by kpsiegel ➡️
I don't understand that type of blanket assertion ... This idea that "numbers mean nothing in the envelope business" puzzles me.
It's not blanket assertion. Pro-One specs say that minimum attack time is 2 ms and Andromeda specs say that minimum attack time is 2 ms. Since Pro-One is widely regarded as one of the snappiest analog synths around there are two options:
1) Andromeda has envelopes as fast as fastest analog envelopes go or
2) There is something wierd about those numbers

There is one huge issue: there is no official standard for measuring envelope speeds and it would be very difficult to come up with such standard. There is similar issue regarding time constants in compressors and bandwidth in bell EQs. For a start, lets take very simple attack-release envelope built around RC circuit. When gate drops to 0 do you know how much time - in theory - would it take for release portion to drop to 0 as well? Eternity, give or take few seconds. In practice decaying capacitor voltage would be swamped by resistor noise well before eternity but still that would be some loooong times. So I would have to do something like this "Ok, I'll say that release time is time it takes for release portion to drop to 10% of initial value". But some other guy could say "It's time it takes to drop to 35% of initial value". We could both make synths and say "Max release time is 10 seconds" but my envelope would be much faster than his. And there is another issue particular to attack part in ADSR/AD envelopes but I don't wont to bother with technical details.
Anyhow, specifications of analog envelopes is trickie business and there is additional can of worms (or two) about software envelopes like in Andromeda. I don't know if Andromeda envelopes are fast or slow, never played one, but numbers in that particular topic are not exactly most reliable data in specification sheet for synth.
Old 17th September 2012 | Show parent
  #79
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Old 17th September 2012 | Show parent
  #80
Bio
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🎧 10 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by recnsci ➡️
It's not blanket assertion. Pro-One specs say that minimum attack time is 2 ms and Andromeda specs say that minimum attack time is 2 ms. Since Pro-One is widely regarded as one of the snappiest analog synths around there are two options:
1) Andromeda has envelopes as fast as fastest analog envelopes go or
2) There is something wierd about those numbers

There is one huge issue: there is no official standard for measuring envelope speeds and it would be very difficult to come up with such standard. There is similar issue regarding time constants in compressors and bandwidth in bell EQs. For a start, lets take very simple attack-release envelope built around RC circuit. When gate drops to 0 do you know how much time - in theory - would it take for release portion to drop to 0 as well? Eternity, give or take few seconds. In practice decaying capacitor voltage would be swamped by resistor noise well before eternity but still that would be some loooong times. So I would have to do something like this "Ok, I'll say that release time is time it takes for release portion to drop to 10% of initial value". But some other guy could say "It's time it takes to drop to 35% of initial value". We could both make synths and say "Max release time is 10 seconds" but my envelope would be much faster than his. And there is another issue particular to attack part in ADSR/AD envelopes but I don't wont to bother with technical details.
Anyhow, specifications of analog envelopes is trickie business and there is additional can of worms (or two) about software envelopes like in Andromeda. I don't know if Andromeda envelopes are fast or slow, never played one, but numbers in that particular topic are not exactly most reliable data in specification sheet for synth.
I partially agree with you : numbers don't tell the whole story. The slope is of the same importance.

They still have a meaning, try a Cwejman envelope generator with attack rated at 0.1ms, they are by far the fastest and most percussive i have ever tried and heard.

Also it's in the attack that envelope speed is more interesting and it's easy to measure : from the beginning to the highest point. Just align several env visually on your oscilloscope and it become easier to compare their speed.

Neither only the shape or only the numbers give the whole story, even add how hot the envelope output is. It's the whole that matter and give a percussive sound.

But numbers are part of that, they are important.
Old 17th September 2012 | Show parent
  #81
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🎧 10 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bio ➡️
I partially agree with you : numbers don't tell the whole story. The slope is of the same importance.

They still have a meaning, try a Cwejman envelope generator with attack rated at 0.1ms, they are by far the fastest and most percussive i have ever tried and heard.

Also it's in the attack that envelope speed is more interresting and it's easy to mesure : from the beginning to the highest point. Just allign several env visually on your oscilloscop and it become easier to compare their speed.

Neither only the shape or only the numbers give the whole story, even add how hot the envelope output is. It's the whole that matter and give a percussive sound.

But numbers are part of that, they are importants.
It's easy to measure some value I consider is representative number, my point was the there is no standardisation about what exactly should be measured. In general there are at least two camps: 63.2% people and 90% people. And attack time of analog envelope is better defined metric as long as it's not AHDSR, in that case you are in the same boat as with other portions of envelope (and some analog ADSR/AD envs have sorta' "implicite" hold portion).

My point is: I really doubt that either Sequential or Alesis lied in their spec sheets. In both cases designer measured something he or she found thought was fitting and that's it. If envelopes on Pro-One and Andromeda are different it's because different metrics are used (among bunch of other things, like in case of old Korg diode ring VCF one could get properly confused when it turns out that when env modulates cutoff it seems that envelope speeds are dynamic).
Old 17th September 2012
  #82
Bio
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🎧 10 years
Quote:
my point was the there is no standardisation about what exactly should be measured.
Yes, but when you compare envelope in general, the mesured data are meaningful.

If one is 1ms and the other 0.5ms, you can hear it, fell it etc... Cwejman claim 0.1ms and it's easy to ear that they are faster than most others env.

So imo, even without standardisation it work great at giving informations. That's the only important thing.

If 2 env with similar speed are differents then it's their slopes that are differents or one is hitting harder.
Old 17th September 2012 | Show parent
  #83
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Don Solaris's Avatar
 
4 Reviews written
🎧 10 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bio ➡️
So imo, even without standardisation it work great at giving informations. That's the only important thing.
In the case of MKS-70, not at all.

I think they wrote 2ms or something like that, in reality it's more like 10ms.
Old 17th September 2012
  #84
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2 Reviews written
🎧 15 years
EDM NRG keep it civil please? thanks!
Old 17th September 2012 | Show parent
  #85
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kpsiegel's Avatar
 
🎧 5 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by recnsci ➡️
It's not blanket assertion. Pro-One specs say that minimum attack time is 2 ms and Andromeda specs say that minimum attack time is 2 ms. Since Pro-One is widely regarded as one of the snappiest analog synths around there are two options:
1) Andromeda has envelopes as fast as fastest analog envelopes go or
2) There is something wierd about those numbers

There is one huge issue: there is no official standard for measuring envelope speeds and it would be very difficult to come up with such standard. There is similar issue regarding time constants in compressors and bandwidth in bell EQs. For a start, lets take very simple attack-release envelope built around RC circuit. When gate drops to 0 do you know how much time - in theory - would it take for release portion to drop to 0 as well? Eternity, give or take few seconds. In practice decaying capacitor voltage would be swamped by resistor noise well before eternity but still that would be some loooong times. So I would have to do something like this "Ok, I'll say that release time is time it takes for release portion to drop to 10% of initial value". But some other guy could say "It's time it takes to drop to 35% of initial value". We could both make synths and say "Max release time is 10 seconds" but my envelope would be much faster than his. And there is another issue particular to attack part in ADSR/AD envelopes but I don't wont to bother with technical details.
Anyhow, specifications of analog envelopes is trickie business and there is additional can of worms (or two) about software envelopes like in Andromeda. I don't know if Andromeda envelopes are fast or slow, never played one, but numbers in that particular topic are not exactly most reliable data in specification sheet for synth.
I guess I don't even agree with your assertion that a 2 ms envelope is among the fastest for analog synths. Check out the envelope times for modulars, mini-moog model D, GRP A4, Jupiters, etc. I am not looking to be argumentative but I was not being arbitrary in my critique about this. Just my experience. And yes, to the OP I definitely use the envelope optimizer where necessary.

As far as standards I guess I have to disagree there too. As an electrical engineer I would just take a scope and measure the rise time of a signal from gate on to maximum level using the gate signal as my scope trigger. Effectively, it is like an amplifier's slew rate value which is definitely a pretty stock commodity. I didn't really care about release times cause my concern was rise times. For the record you can set an arbitrary standard of peak signal value to -60 dB minimum release time if you want. Release time numbers are far less relevant to me (maybe not to others) as attack times.

Look...I love my A6 to death. I just gave two specific reasons (envelope speed and LFO max frequency) why it was not the King of all synths IMHO. It is in my top 3 of all the synths I own (20 and counting). I would also say that even though it is expensive, for what you get it is a fantastic value.
Old 17th September 2012 | Show parent
  #86
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2 Reviews written
🎧 10 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by kpsiegel ➡️
I guess I don't even agree with your assertion that a 2 ms envelope is among the fastest for analog synths. Check out the envelope times for modulars, mini-moog model D, GRP A4, Jupiters, etc. I am not looking to be argumentative but I was not being arbitrary in my critique about this. Just my experience. And yes, to the OP I definitely use the envelope optimizer where necessary.

As far as standards I guess I have to disagree there too. As an electrical engineer I would just take a scope and measure the rise time of a signal from gate on to maximum level using the gate signal as my scope trigger. Effectively, it is like an amplifier's slew rate value which is definitely a pretty stock commodity. I didn't really care about release times cause my concern was rise times. For the record you can set an arbitrary standard of peak signal value to -60 dB minimum release time if you want. Release time numbers are far less relevant to me (maybe not to others) as attack times.

Look...I love my A6 to death. I just gave two specific reasons (envelope speed and LFO max frequency) why it was not the King of all synths IMHO. It is in my top 3 of all the synths I own (20 and counting). I would also say that even though it is expensive, for what you get it is a fantastic value.
by the way i just happened to have a sample up from my system 100 on my DAW just now, trimming it. measured the attack as less than 0.000 seconds.
Old 17th September 2012
  #87
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🎧 10 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by vexkon ➡️
extensively demo'd both the A6 and DS PE. Extremely dissappointed in both. For me its still all about the vintage. Although SE stuff sounds pretty good.

I think the oscillators and the LFO are the weak points on the A6 but I liked it a lot over prophet and the PE
Old 17th September 2012 | Show parent
  #88
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Old 18th September 2012 | Show parent
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Old 18th September 2012 | Show parent
  #90
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🎧 10 years
A6 is good at drone and bug stuff, but with memory recall



A6 is also good for latching an ARP and messing around to come up with ideas - I do this a lot....



The A6 also does not have much dynamic range - you need to keep the VCA level (ENV1) around the 50 mark if you want to avoid that harsh sound - which also increases the resolution of the envelope, same for the filter envelope.
I think that's it's main weakness and caused a lot of negative reactions to it's sound when it first came out - the people behind it didn't seem to be aware of this...
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