Quantcast
Advice needed for first analog synth sub$1300 - Page 3 - Gearspace.com
The No.1 Website for Pro Audio
Advice needed for first analog synth sub$1300
Old 18th September 2012
  #61
Gear Addict
 
🎧 5 years
I was saying that the p600 sounds dirty, the polysix sounds dark, and the j60 is punchy. They are all very different sounding boards. I haven't used a Minibrute yet, but it's a mono so it's not really in competition with any of them.

As I have said a few times so far, in my opinion the J60 is the best sounding of them all. Not the most versatile, but easily the most consistently good sounding and soulful.

I have owned all three for long periods of time. If I could only have one it wouldn't be close to a contest. The p600 wouldn't even be in contention. The Polysix is good but lacking some of the punch and presence that makes a synth special, but if I couldn't find a 60 I wouldn't be too incredibly upset with it. The 60 is an all time classic. The Minerva mod takes it even further.


They all have a place in anyone's studio, but as a first addition to a basic mono I know what I would do :D
Old 18th September 2012 | Show parent
  #62
Lives for gear
 
3 Reviews written
🎧 10 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by Teknobeam ➑️
I'm confused. You espouse the virtues of vintage analog, but you used a pejorative (dated) when talking about the JX8p in that same context.
Ok in simpler terms. It sounds ****.
Old 18th September 2012 | Show parent
  #63
Lives for gear
 
3 Reviews written
🎧 10 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by Teknobeam ➑️
The MKS80 is so far beyond the Polysix on every level.
Not on every level. It may be the more higher spec unit, the flagship, the dual VCO blah blah forget all that and just listen to the sound. Have no problem with the MKS-80, I was talking about the JX-8P. And my ref to it being no jupiter 8 or polysix was about the filter obviously as that was the part i was talking about at the time (on the MKS-80).
Old 18th September 2012 | Show parent
  #64
Lives for gear
 
3 Reviews written
🎧 10 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by saw wave analog ➑️
Do you want dirty, dark, or punchy? P600, polysix, juno60 fill those roles in that order. J60 is most consistently good sounding, Prophet is weirdest. Polysix is good but doesn't have any single particular strength. It's the least interesting of the three imo.
Of course it has a strength, the filter is gorgeous on it and it does more variety than the Juno 6/60! not everyone needs punch/bass. This is now down to tastes.

get back to me when someone can make their J60 or JX-8P sound like this:

Old 18th September 2012 | Show parent
  #65
Lives for gear
 
Teknobeam's Avatar
 
🎧 10 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by DesolationBlvd ➑️
I'm pretty sure the IR3R05 was made for the MKS-80. The service manual says they wanted to eliminate clipping with high resonance and provide a linear response in the VCA. The former is why the resonance is weaker.
Wow!.. That's interesting information. There was a good reason why they made some component changes, but pretty much not to flog some surplus chips. I remember reading a quote from one of the engineers involved in the creation of the MKS80 some time ago and what I remember was something like this "When we finished this project we realized that we would probably never achieve this level again." (don't quote me on that even though I used quotation marks ). But that was the jist of it.

Some talk about the CEM 3340 oscillators as brash etc. Possibly, but I think that Roland was just dialing that synth in. They launched the first one with a slightly different sonic footprint (some would argue dramatically different, but most would agree marginally different when all things are considered). The JX8P well...I will concede that it's not the friendliest or warmest of beasts. It's certainly not instantly gratifying unless you stay close to safety with the factory presets many of which include the use of the factory chorus. Very difficult to wander out beyond that without a PG800 and discover some magic. Even with the PG800 it's not easy. It's not a Juno or a Polysix in that regard. But it can get you into some obscure places that neither of those synths can. And far from dated when you discover that. If anything...the Juno and the Polysix are the ones that might be identified as dated (hate that word, it's irrelevant). Some have called the JX8p "honky oscillators"...."lousy filter", "slow envelopes"...However, you could say...screw that,,,I'm going to get something good out of this thing no matter how long it takes. That's what I did...It took a little longer,, but there it was. Is it a Minimoog...is it an OBXa,,Is it an A6? no,, none of the above,,,,but it's definitely a JX8P, and it might be that homely girl with glasses (I always preferred those ones). It has some hidden virtues.
Old 18th September 2012 | Show parent
  #66
Lives for gear
 
Teknobeam's Avatar
 
🎧 10 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by Pro5 ➑️
Of course it has a strength, the filter is gorgeous on it and it does more variety than the Juno 6/60! not everyone needs punch/bass. This is now down to tastes.

get back to me when someone can make their J60 or JX-8P sound like this:

Lol.. That's a great demo of the Polysix. Just how I remember it. I owned one of the first they made (yes I'm kind of old), I used it for almost 4 years live ..6 nights a week on stage with a Mono Poly and a Juno 60. Before that it was my first poly following my very first synth, a Roland SH5. I played in a punk band in those days. Deep purple meets the Sex Pistols... (loved the chord memory).. I still have some old tapes from those days.

But in that demo..the guy is using some external effects, so it's not all Polysix. But the biggest thing that I can reflect on is that much of the apreggiator stuff is in unison and it sounds like it. phase cancelled. I know that synth like the back of my hand and I could have one in a heartbeat if that's what I thought I needed. It ain't. It was a great first poly synth...programmable even? yeah...wow...a poor mans P5...I was on cloud 9. It has a great filter...it is also born to be played live. that's what it was created for. But sonically overall....it was eclipsed. I replaced it with a Chroma Polaris and never looked back. That was four years before I landed an MKS80.
Old 18th September 2012
  #67
Lives for gear
 
thermos's Avatar
 
1 Review written
🎧 15 years
Congrats on the minibrute. You'll love it, it's super great. I have more fun using it than I did my sh101.
Synths are like religion, you can't get definite answers online just based on people's opinions. Check out as much YouTube/jexus samples as you can.
Pro 5 and I have argued about this a million times, but to offer yet another opinion and to show how wildly varying tastes can be, I'd take a JX-8p over a Juno 60 or a jx-3p. I don't do tons of filter envelope stuff though, (more with monos where the minibrute shines). I thought the jx-3p oscillators sounded small and metallic when the filter was opened up. In a certain range it was very nice (a bit weak) and definitely old sounding. Whenever the filter got open to a certain point, my skin would crawl. I also had a Juno-60, nice general tone but I could rarely get what I wanted out of it. I also had a weird relationship with the envelope, hard to dial in, almost like the decay fell off too fast in certain settings to be smooth. I also have no idea why people say the words "Juno bass" together, it's fine but I never thought it was something worth seeking out. The oscillators aren't super big or interesting sounding. I sold it after playing the minibrute for 3 days, which I realized sounded way more interesting than the Juno to me in most every way.
The jx-8p is slow and the filter is boring, but in a certain range it's smooth and big, and does some amazing pads (and other sounds too). Fits in a mix really well. I find it bigger and clearer than the 3p. And I have yet to hear a VST that has anywhere near the front to back depth it has. I also have a Matrix 6, which besides the fm stuff I haven't really taken to much at all (the aftertouch works well though). To me the Mks80 rev 5 is by far the clear winner to all of these.
If I were the op I'd get a jx3p and an 8p, they are pretty complimentary actually. 3p older and dirtier, 8p newer cleaner and prettier. They are both quite cheap at the moment too. You can edit with a Behringer BCR2000 (the 8p anyway) and you are good to go.
Old 18th September 2012 | Show parent
  #68
Lives for gear
 
Teknobeam's Avatar
 
🎧 10 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by Pro5 ➑️
Not on every level. It may be the more higher spec unit, the flagship, the dual VCO blah blah forget all that and just listen to the sound. Have no problem with the MKS-80, I was talking about the JX-8P. And my ref to it being no jupiter 8 or polysix was about the filter obviously as that was the part i was talking about at the time (on the MKS-80).
OK.. your demo of the guy playing the Polysix. I thought it was a demo I had seen previously..so my apologies for that. So, here's the demo I was referring to.
If you can't see the video,, go here ~~> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-6tMTN2LoPQ

The demo you posted was nice..a guy playing a Polysix. I don't have to listen to that sound. I am intimately familiar with it. I'll give it a C+....so.. it passed. Didn't make the honor roll.
Old 18th September 2012
  #69
Lives for gear
 
3 Reviews written
🎧 10 years
The P6 demo wasn't aimed at you and your MKS-80, it was about the glorious evergreen sound vs a honky - yes honky JX-8P and the very samey J60.

I too owned an 8P for quite some time, and I programmed it a lot with a BCR 2000 (and my 3P too thanks to the organix mod) at one time I was in love with the 8P for it's pad sounds - then I got a D-50 And I realised everything I liked about the 8P had VERY LITTLE to do with it's 'analog nature' and all to do with it's abilities (2 envs, epic sound, glossy tone - it was the psuedo digital nature of it that gave it what I thought I liked, until I had D-50 and even software doing similar and more 'refreshingly' in a mix).

After a year or so of using/making those similar pads (all sounding like a variation on high strings or soundtrack sadly) it occurred to me that aside from that, any other type of sound I needed from it was better served by other, even simpler, synths. Polysix for some, JX-3P for others - even the Alpha Juno 2 I had at the time. They all had a place. My point wasn't that the polysix is better or a do it all synth or that it's better at pads than the 8P, it was to the original poster to beware grouping all (technically) analog synths together when they can sound so different. And to me an 8P sounds great doing pads, it's bass is where the 'honky' oscs show up, the cutting sync sounds (as heard on I think on nenah cherry - buffalo stance?) are passable but passe, and overall no matter how it was programmed, chorus on or not (and I usually turned it off) had that same weird sound to it, like it was either all in the background or too heavy handed.

I did some wonderful JP-8 esque slow evolving pads with the filter env set just right to make it fade out with some little echos (esp through effects - btw all my synths go through effects so that p6 vid is as valid as any) it sounded great, and no the p6 nor the 3P could do that. I found the 8P had less use in my music (normal rock/pop with guitars/vocals and sometimes veering into pure electronic/aggressive stuff) and nothing that I couldn't get even better from the 3P on one side of the scale (the more analog/retro cuttting/biting sounds that always sounded fresh and open to my ears vs the 8P) or the D-50 on the other side (epic pads, strings, weird filter tricks, slow solo vintage sounding leads that run rings around an 8P and still sounded analog enough in a mix). For me 8P became a no mans land with those other synths. They had distinctive charaters one obviously analog one obviously digital but both sounded great, the 8P (and 10) fell in the middle of trying to do a bit of everything but nothing amazing (other than strings/pads).

So yes I did program it a lot, it was my main synth at one point, my controller (before the SY77 which also contributed to the lack of use of the 8P). There are threads on this very forum where I've spoken highly at the time of the 8P and how nice it can sound, but nonetheless it really did seem to sound the most 'obviously of it's time' - a true analog can always sound timeless even though WE know it's usually late 70s early 80s stuff - the 8P sounded very 1985-1987, I've never been one to level that accusation at synths in general, well aware it's just a sound making device and is as relevent as you make it - the only other synth I've said that about is the Korg M1, and in many ways the 8P is like the M1 of the analog world (and that's not a good thing btw)

3P definitely has weakness not denying that, it could do with more beef in certain areas and possibly better oscillators but it has a sound that just makes me smile when it's programmed right - was never able to make the 8P sound that way, because they are such different sounding synths!

And poor old polysix, yes he's aware of his history and as every pub cover's band favourite prophet 5 wannabe, doesn't stop it sounding nice today. really my whole point was to highlight the dangers of asking others "what synth should I buy for £££" with so much variation and features, and sometimes features being touted as more important than sound - both are important, but if you can only have one, I'll take sound everytime (and just buy more / other synths).

As for the MKS-80 - again, am sure it's the overall most powerful synth of the ones we've mentioned, no doubt it can do some great stuff, I just feel it would have been better served with an IR3109 as a filter instead.
Old 19th September 2012 | Show parent
  #70
Gear Nut
 
🎧 5 years
A few things I want to clarify... I understood the dirty, dark, punchy comment, what I was basically asking is what would compliment the Minibrute now that I have that... and I can spend about a grand.

For the other posters, I totally understand this is subjective regarding how something sounds... But I was hoping that as a newbie to the analog synth world, there might be a few solid polysynths with lots of knobs (to get me inspired and away from the computer) that would do things the Minibrute can't. So, if the Brute is good at basses and is punchy, then the polysynth recommendations need not include things that are only good at basses and punchy. I'm thinking the Minibrute might not be the best at evolving lush weird pads for example, so maybe something that does that well with lots of knobs? All of these Rolands being mentioned for example seem to be mostly lacking in knobs and that does not really excite me right now.

Right now I think what remains is a Polysix, and Prophet 600, and a Juno 60. Or maybe a modular, someone had recommended a few of those and I am totally clueless about that world. I understand the recommendations to save up for a nicer synth too, so perhaps I would be better served just playing with the Minibrute for several months and then really splurging. My fear is that I splurge and then don't really even have the reference point to appreciate the awesomeness of whatever 2K synth I would buy. Sometimes it is nice to start low and work your way up the foodchain I think.

Thanks!
Old 19th September 2012
  #71
Gear Addict
 
🎧 5 years
Evolving, lush, weird pads implies lots of modulations and multiple oscillators and the only wy to get that in an analog on a budget is to forsake knobs.

All three of the ~1k synths you say are in contention will work fine for pads. A JX10 would be better yet, and cost less, it just wouldn't have knobs unless you got the pg800 as well. The combination is within your budget and that is the best pad synth I have ever used. It is two layered JX8ps in one machine, which leads do some very deep, thick sounds.

The next level up in a more traditional analog would be a Jupiter 6 or Oberheim OB8. Those both hover around 2500 these days. You could also consider a polyevolver or prophet 08, or any number of knobby digital synths.
Old 19th September 2012
  #72
Lives for gear
 
mike vee's Avatar
 
2 Reviews written
🎧 10 years
tons of options:

new:


mopho x4


used:

juno 106
polysix
juno 60
prophet 600
akai AX-60

can't go wrong with virus too i guess although it's not my cup of tea
Old 19th September 2012
  #73
Gear Nut
 
🎧 5 years
Why are so few people mentioning the Mopho x4 - is because no one has played it or is there some problem with the feature set that is turning people off?
Old 19th September 2012 | Show parent
  #74
Lives for gear
 
Teknobeam's Avatar
 
🎧 10 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by Pro5 ➑️
The P6 demo wasn't aimed at you and your MKS-80,
Hey, no worries. I don't know why I'm so idealistic about the JX8P. part of it is because it served me so well during the period where I was doing music for theatre and film..after the rock and roll days. During that period, I rarely went beyond the presets other than tweaking "Soundcraft" which ended up sitting underneath a lot of pieces for it's inherent warmth and LF. I also had a Rev5 Mks80 at the same time along with a DX9 TX7, and a Proteus one and D110 and en E2. The JX was actually my controller as well. It is only in the past couple of years that I decided to see what I could get out of that thing. It's not for everything, and it's not a Juno or a Polysix that you can go to for instantly gratifying familiarity, it is almost "esoteric"... And definitely a challenge. I understand completely where you are coming from when you talk about it. I also marvel at the build quality when I open it up. It's from "that" era pre dating monolithic plastic from top to bottom. It's kind of an old friend, and I feel a sense of loyalty to it...however crazy that sounds.
Old 19th September 2012 | Show parent
  #75
Lives for gear
 
mike vee's Avatar
 
2 Reviews written
🎧 10 years
I love the JX-8P. i had one with a PG-800 for a while.

THIS vst gets me by now a days though, it's damn good!
Old 19th September 2012 | Show parent
  #76
Lives for gear
 
3 Reviews written
🎧 10 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by mike vee ➑️
I love the JX-8P. i had one with a PG-800 for a while.

THIS vst gets me by now a days though, it's damn good!
That's what I started using too for the one or two sounds I felt I still needed - very close. Then i just stopped using 8P sounds at all. So much more stuff out there that sounds just as good, better and more fresh (inc FM and D-50) for pads n stuff.
Old 19th September 2012 | Show parent
  #77
Lives for gear
 
Robonaut's Avatar
 
🎧 10 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by dolomick ➑️
Why are so few people mentioning the Mopho x4 - is because no one has played it or is there some problem with the feature set that is turning people off?
It's probably because the Prophet 08 is better in just about every way and doesn't cost that much more (the Prophet rack is only like $1,500 while the MophoX4 is $1,300).
Old 19th September 2012
  #78
Lives for gear
 
donato's Avatar
 
🎧 5 years
I'd probably try to stretch the $ a little bit further and go for a combo of:

used tetra
used slim phatty or a new taurus
minibrute

I'd prefer those three quite a bit more than a Prophet '08. You'd have to still use the computer a bit, but that could cover a pretty good chunk of analog ground and variety. I agree the Chroma Polaris is pretty sweet, and only a few years ago could be had for around $400 or $500. However, they can be very problematic from a maintenance point of view. I just feel in today's market, you're not getting good bang for buck with the vintage analogs.
Old 19th September 2012
  #79
Gear Addict
 
🎧 5 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by Teknobeam ➑️
Wow!.. That's interesting information. There was a good reason why they made some component changes, but pretty much not to flog some surplus chips. I remember reading a quote from one of the engineers involved in the creation of the MKS80 some time ago and what I remember was something like this "When we finished this project we realized that we would probably never achieve this level again." (don't quote me on that even though I used quotation marks ). But that was the jist of it.

Some talk about the CEM 3340 oscillators as brash etc. Possibly, but I think that Roland was just dialing that synth in. They launched the first one with a slightly different sonic footprint (some would argue dramatically different, but most would agree marginally different when all things are considered). The JX8P well...I will concede that it's not the friendliest or warmest of beasts. It's certainly not instantly gratifying unless you stay close to safety with the factory presets many of which include the use of the factory chorus. Very difficult to wander out beyond that without a PG800 and discover some magic. Even with the PG800 it's not easy. It's not a Juno or a Polysix in that regard. But it can get you into some obscure places that neither of those synths can. And far from dated when you discover that. If anything...the Juno and the Polysix are the ones that might be identified as dated (hate that word, it's irrelevant). Some have called the JX8p "honky oscillators"...."lousy filter", "slow envelopes"...However, you could say...screw that,,,I'm going to get something good out of this thing no matter how long it takes. That's what I did...It took a little longer,, but there it was. Is it a Minimoog...is it an OBXa,,Is it an A6? no,, none of the above,,,,but it's definitely a JX8P, and it might be that homely girl with glasses (I always preferred those ones). It has some hidden virtues.
The same here, actually the JX8P it's one of my favourite synth and can be very lush!
Old 19th September 2012 | Show parent
  #80
Lives for gear
 
dougt's Avatar
 
🎧 10 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by donato ➑️
I agree the Chroma Polaris is pretty sweet, and only a few years ago could be had for around $400 or $500. However, they can be very problematic from a maintenance point of view.
Not true any more. The main problem the Polaris had was the front panel membrane connectors cracking but now there are new ones available that won't crack.

So the Polaris is still a great deal at current prices with dual-VCOs per voice, velocity sensitive keyboard, split/layering of patches, on-board sequencer, multi-timbral analog with an excellent MIDI spec and knob/slider interface...
Old 20th September 2012 | Show parent
  #81
Lives for gear
 
Teknobeam's Avatar
 
🎧 10 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by dougt ➑️
Not true any more. The main problem the Polaris had was the front panel membrane connectors cracking but now there are new ones available that won't crack.

So the Polaris is still a great deal at current prices with dual-VCOs per voice, velocity sensitive keyboard, split/layering of patches, on-board sequencer, multi-timbral analog with an excellent MIDI spec and knob/slider interface...
Yep. I just received my set of panels from Paul D. Pretty amazing that someone went to that trouble to make that happen. I haven't installed them in my P2 yet, but they look amazing, and they were extremely well packaged.
Old 20th September 2012 | Show parent
  #82
Lives for gear
 
GeorgeHayduke's Avatar
 
🎧 10 years
I have never, after following the yellow pages for probably 5 years, seen a Chroma Polaris for sale in Denmark.

Are these available in numbers where it makes sense recommending it? Just curious..
Old 20th September 2012 | Show parent
  #83
Lives for gear
 
relis's Avatar
 
🎧 10 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by Teknobeam ➑️
During that period, I rarely went beyond the presets other than tweaking "Soundcraft" which ended up sitting underneath a lot of pieces for it's inherent warmth and LF.
You mean: "Soundtrack"? Terrific preset for layering with digital pads and strings. Makes everything warm and you don't even know it's there.
Old 20th September 2012 | Show parent
  #84
Lives for gear
 
dougt's Avatar
 
🎧 10 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by GeorgeHayduke ➑️
I have never, after following the yellow pages for probably 5 years, seen a Chroma Polaris for sale in Denmark.

Are these available in numbers where it makes sense recommending it? Just curious..
Going by the serial numbers it looks like there were probably at least 3000 of them made -

Rhodes Chroma
Old 21st September 2012 | Show parent
  #85
Lives for gear
 
Teknobeam's Avatar
 
🎧 10 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by relis ➑️
You mean: "Soundtrack"? Terrific preset for layering with digital pads and strings. Makes everything warm and you don't even know it's there.
That was really my secret weapon ...I listne to so much of the stuff that I produced from that time and it's all over it. But as you described... a secret ingredient...just enough to add another layer or another level of sophistication without being identifiable. Soundtrack also brought some huge sub bass frequencies at a lower register. shake the windows stuff. I exploited that virtue a few times.
Old 3rd October 2012 | Show parent
  #86
Gear Head
 
🎧 10 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by verve92 ➑️
Seriously? You got a Moog LP for $700. Broken? They barely depreciate $100. And you are telling this guy and us that diva and/or plugins better or as good as a Prophet 08?
Moogs are very limited with one voice and not a good first synth, but still a great synth for just those sounds.
Guys tried this with me when I joined GS after specifically saying I wanted a poly/digital board to start.
Wow. Unbelievable.
Just sayin......
Well... the phatty I got was a floor model at a music store (works perfectly) and it was a stage 1 right around when the stage II just came out...
and honestly I found the Prophet 08 very thin and pathetic (the potentiometers were also crap, which could have colored my opinion/ affected my exploration of its possibilites), but for classic 80's fat Jupiter-style sounds I find Diva surprisingly good.

Biggest word of advice to OP, ignore the hardware snobs (who no matter what will be on a honeymoon with hardware and will ignore any software alternatives, even when trying them costs nothing--> as shown above) and the software snobs, (who are convinced that people who like hardware have too much money for their own good and wank off to their equipment instead of making music with it).

I personally think that nothing in software can emulate the bass and the tangible experience of a hardware synth, but if you want poly, you should do yourself a favor and download diva. It's free to try and it's truly a breakthrough.

good luck!
Old 3rd October 2012 | Show parent
  #87
Lives for gear
 
🎧 10 years
love the JX-8p. That plus a cheap mono would be a good setup. Actually that's what I have right now, mono being a monotribe until I get a 101 or something else.

Prefer the JX to the Alphas but love the Alpha and Alpha does tolerable fast bass (still not a 101 or Juno 60 obv) so its prob a better first synth. Both are cheap as chips w/o a programmer.

Prob like my DW8000 better, there's something special about it, when I got it I could dial in the exact sounds I wanted immediately. I do like Korg though. Also considering a Polysix, MonoPoly, Prophet 600 or Mopho/X4 for myself.
πŸ“ Reply

Similar Threads

Thread / Thread Starter Replies / Views Last Post
replies: 1422 views: 196061
Avatar for OrphicTrench
OrphicTrench 1 week ago
replies: 131 views: 26262
Avatar for Deleted 8ace8bf1c9800fe
Deleted 8ace8bf1c9800fe 14th January 2019
replies: 2371 views: 180271
Avatar for SerErris
SerErris 1 week ago
Topic:
Post Reply

Welcome to the Gearspace Pro Audio Community!

Registration benefits include:
  • The ability to reply to and create new discussions
  • Access to members-only giveaways & competitions
  • Interact with VIP industry experts in our guest Q&As
  • Access to members-only sub forum discussions
  • Access to members-only Chat Room
  • Get INSTANT ACCESS to the world's best private pro audio Classifieds for only USD $20/year
  • Promote your eBay auctions and Reverb.com listings for free
  • Remove this message!
You need an account to post a reply. Create a username and password below and an account will be created and your post entered.


 
 
Slide to join now Processing…

Forum Jump
Forum Jump