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D16 Lush - new Diva Competitor?
Old 27th October 2012 | Show parent
  #181
Gear Head
 
suntsu's Avatar
 
1 Review written
🎧 10 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by LotuZia ➑️
Well in some synths, layers can be interactive, so you can do things you CANT do with the several instances technique, wich works however wall for not too sophisticated synthesizers. Not only can they interact, but there are also some global parameters, like play modes, keyboard modes, global LFOs/Glide parameters, Global FX, onboard sequencer interactions.
This is not true if you are working with Cockos Reaper you can directly link any parameters of any VST to one or to many other VST ;-)

Here is a small video I made, it covers the parameter link between the controls of a single VST(i) and the same for 2 and then 3 VST(i)... Of course you can reproduce this for more than 3 VST(i) (the text is in french but everything is visually understandable)

VST(i) Parameter Link

PS: I'm in love with Cockos Reaper, It's cheap, damn stable, powerfull and tweakable in every manner ;-)
Old 27th October 2012 | Show parent
  #182
Lives for gear
 
🎧 10 years
Here's an example of the multi-layer pad I mentioned previously. Each layer with a different setting. Initially I was going to make it as 'one' sound, but taking some parameters further away from those in other layers made the sound very interesting.

Lush-101 multi-layer pad
(no effects or processing used).

To do this sound using multiple synths loaded in a host would be a work-flow killer. In Lush it is a pleasure, especially as it has hardwired modulation so I don't need to access the mod matrix for setting up PWM, LFO rates, and other bits. This system is ultra fast and beats using a host any day (or multi-layer synths which have most of the essential modulators and parameters in the mod matrix).
Old 27th October 2012 | Show parent
  #183
Lives for gear
 
🎧 10 years
@ atma,

I think I know what you mean when you say that Lush sounds 'harsh'. When you first load up Lush it is set to the 'normal' quality mode. You might have been listening to Lush in this mode, which does sound 'rough'. But change the quality to 'High' and the sound becomes, for the lack of a better word...lush. :D

Try: Options (top left corner)>Synthesis tab and change it.
Old 28th October 2012 | Show parent
  #184
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Synthpark's Avatar
 
2 Reviews written
🎧 5 years
So yeah, I saw there is actually an EQ for each layer, as well as panning. So played with it and you can get nice sounds using three layers, but then it eats my CPU (i7 macbook pro 2011) and runs unstable.
Old 28th October 2012 | Show parent
  #185
Gear Head
 
suntsu's Avatar
 
1 Review written
🎧 10 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by himalaya ➑️
Here's an example of the multi-layer pad I mentioned previously. Each layer with a different setting. Initially I was going to make it as 'one' sound, but taking some parameters further away from those in other layers made the sound very interesting.

Lush-101 multi-layer pad
(no effects or processing used).

To do this sound using multiple synths loaded in a host would be a work-flow killer. In Lush it is a pleasure, especially as it has hardwired modulation so I don't need to access the mod matrix for setting up PWM, LFO rates, and other bits. This system is ultra fast and beats using a host any day (or multi-layer synths which have most of the essential modulators and parameters in the mod matrix).
Can I have you LuSH patch ?
Old 28th October 2012 | Show parent
  #186
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Acid Hazard's Avatar
 
🎧 10 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by Synthpark ➑️
So yeah, I saw there is actually an EQ for each layer, as well as panning. So played with it and you can get nice sounds using three layers, but then it eats my CPU (i7 macbook pro 2011) and runs unstable.
There is also a parameteric EQ on every effects channel as well.
Old 28th October 2012 | Show parent
  #187
Gear Maniac
 
Tallowah's Avatar
 
🎧 5 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by ksandvik ➑️
So you make synth purchase decisions based on looks? I guess a Moog with its wood panels is not a good thing to get...
Yeah, and it's only a G**D*** IMAGE to boot... An I-M-A-G-E ... My ears are saturated with all the pretty colors and the sound looks even better?!?

I thought teenage girls & barracuda were the only "things" which could be hypnotized by shiny things???



`
Old 28th October 2012 | Show parent
  #188
Lives for gear
 
🎧 10 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by Synthpark ➑️
So yeah, I saw there is actually an EQ for each layer, as well as panning. So played with it and you can get nice sounds using three layers, but then it eats my CPU (i7 macbook pro 2011) and runs unstable.
You really do not need EQ most of the time. I got my pad all nice and working well with all layers without any EQ or processing. Also, I have four layers there and the key to play it without any CPU issues is to reduce the polyphony. On my PC (an ancient Quad Q9300) I need to go down to 5 notes per layer, which is just enough for chords, but obviously more would be better. In this case I can draft with 5 notes, and then increase polyphony when I freeze or render the take. BTW, I have the quality option set to 'High' and I'm using the SH-101 filters.
Old 29th October 2012 | Show parent
  #189
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Synthpark's Avatar
 
2 Reviews written
🎧 5 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by himalaya ➑️
You really do not need EQ most of the time. I got my pad all nice and working well with all layers without any EQ or processing. Also, I have four layers there and the key to play it without any CPU issues is to reduce the polyphony. On my PC (an ancient Quad Q9300) I need to go down to 5 notes per layer, which is just enough for chords, but obviously more would be better. In this case I can draft with 5 notes, and then increase polyphony when I freeze or render the take. BTW, I have the quality option set to 'High' and I'm using the SH-101 filters.
Dont know about CPU, but I didn't activate the SH101 filter. Now it sounds much better. I bought this ****.
Old 29th October 2012 | Show parent
  #190
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crufty's Avatar
 
6 Reviews written
🎧 10 years
ok, figured out how to modulate filter via pitch bend

still wish there was a layer master control, maybe it is there & i am just denser then usual.

the onboard mixer is nicer then i would have imagined, to be honest. being able to save a perfectly eq'd & fx'd patch is more virus territory then most vst offer.

after playing around with sync i think jp80x0 basses are covered.

i wish lfo & envelopes were avail as a modulation source because then i could do crazy panning per layer!

playing around with lfo on tuning and enveloping the res makes from some nice nice oddities.



i know people diss on the gui but having it based on the sh101 makes life easier. just like diva's gui, sort of old home day there. not to take away anything from the fab filter approach, that is also easy too. however a synth like massive is quite daunting at first because there is no frame of reference.

steve slate has some ridiculous multi touch monitor. it's hard not to think of the benefits of that w/gui's like lush.

not the any synth wouldn't, but layering diva, lush panned opposite yields nice tones (if a bit rough on the cpu). the sum of the two are more then the parts i feel.

hmm...i would say it is quite sh-101'ey. i wouldn't call it a replacement. however i would say, if anyone was thinking about a jp80x0 lush is a much cheaper and more useful approach imo. will i sell my jp8080? no.

i have not tried slyenth1, dune, rob papen etc synths so don't have other 'bread and butter' synths to compare too.

for anyone who says layering can be done otherwise...true. however it is a royal pia. the problem gets in the automation aspect. though i am not sure how to automate all layers at once in lush. i'm sure there is a way.

i did read the manual. sort of.

attached something without my usual 24 hrs, which means i'll be sure to regret it later! f'it...
Attached Files

lush_101_4_layers.mp3 (1.33 MB, 393 views)

Old 29th October 2012 | Show parent
  #191
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Synthpark's Avatar
 
2 Reviews written
🎧 5 years
I am totally convinced. Just two layers ...

https://www.box.com/s/szglj7u7632vdxfbk2tc
Old 29th October 2012 | Show parent
  #192
Lives for gear
 
🎧 10 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by suntsu ➑️
This is not true if you are working with Cockos Reaper you can directly link any parameters of any VST to one or to many other VST ;-)

Here is a small video I made, it covers the parameter link between the controls of a single VST(i) and the same for 2 and then 3 VST(i)... Of course you can reproduce this for more than 3 VST(i) (the text is in french but everything is visually understandable)

VST(i) Parameter Link

PS: I'm in love with Cockos Reaper, It's cheap, damn stable, powerfull and tweakable in every manner ;-)
No probs, camarade du plat pays qui est le tien, I speak french too.

Well just a few points : To do the exact same thing you did in some other hosts, you just have to assign say the mod wheel to the different parameters in your freebies, and there you go. Three clicks later ...

So your video is interesting, but it reminds me a bit some other threads like " you dont really need synths actually, just take a sine wave, a VST freebie filter, draw envelopes in your daw automations, add LFO with Lfo tool ( or any other one) et voilΓ , you have a synth without a synth That might be true, and a lot of paths lead to Roma, but well, its not exactly the same workflow.

More : All parameters are not exposed to hosts, especially in complex synths. So in this case your method just doesnt work. In the Synthix, you can modulate all the filters with the global LFO/GLide/Joystick module. But this LFO can be controlled itself by any LFO/Envelope/Choax Generator of any layer. And the LFO itself can control the reat of envelopes in this or that layer. Thats called feedback, and its not only a master controler/salve assignation. Then some layers can be assigned to any track of the sequencer, or one of the arpegiators.

Well the Synthix can be seen as an unit wich can become very complex and sophisticated, though it can be operated in simple modes too, but clearly it can become a bit difficult sometimes to keep track of all the circuitry in a patch, even for advanced users, and while everything is still handled in a single interface. I'm afraid that your method applied to such patches would be a total nightmare. With the Synthix method, once the patch is made all that an user have to do is "play and enjoy your amazing joystick", thats a totally different approach. And the user can still very simply alterate all the parameters.

BUT ....

What can be done in quite few synthesizers like Alchemy, Synthix, or now Lush can also be approached by your method, or other similar methods, and if you find your pleasure to use this modular approach with Reason, it is creative ( MuLab can do some awsome things too) and can be productive as well.

Well pleasure is probably the best part of making music, and as long as you are beeing creative, this is fine for me. I would even say that making some sophisticated things with stone age tools, or workflow, will certainly lead to unique results, like using the old and limited hardware sequencers lead to original results.

So, worflow and possibilities are not strictly equivalent, so ... I'm happy too.

Bonne chance avec tes spaghettis sonores

LtZ
Old 30th October 2012
  #193
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Tallowah's Avatar
 
🎧 5 years
What are the "restrictions" for the Demo version?


`
Old 30th October 2012 | Show parent
  #194
Gear Head
 
suntsu's Avatar
 
1 Review written
🎧 10 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by LotuZia ➑️
All parameters are not exposed to hosts, especially in complex synths.
Yes this is true indeed... It's one of the problem I encounter sometimes... This is the case for the LuSH-101, with which I cannot automate parameters directly from the host... But my method works for the most part of the VST(i) that I'm using... (the ones I choosed were there as example purpose only) I really like the modular approach even if the conception in itself can be painfull...
Old 30th October 2012
  #195
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Acid Hazard's Avatar
 
🎧 10 years
I'm noticing that when i use my Alpha Juno to play LuSH, the Release parameter doesn't work. It works when using the virtual keyboard, or when sequencing in Ableton. Just not when being played via external MIDI. Anyone else run into this?
Old 30th October 2012 | Show parent
  #196
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crufty's Avatar
 
6 Reviews written
🎧 10 years
acid hazard, also noted the real time filter stepping w/mouse drags in real time mode but not in automation playback

could be due to ableton
Old 30th October 2012 | Show parent
  #197
Gear Head
 
suntsu's Avatar
 
1 Review written
🎧 10 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by crufty ➑️
acid hazard, also noted the real time filter stepping w/mouse drags in real time mode but not in automation playback

could be due to ableton
Just hold the "ALT" while moving a control with the mouse...
Old 30th October 2012 | Show parent
  #198
Lives for gear
 
🎧 10 years
Made a quick tune with only LuSH for synth sounds. Drums from D16 Nithonat, so every sound basically comes from a D16 synth. Nothing "revolutionary", but I really dig the sounds. None of the fx in this one are from LuSH tho.

Old 31st October 2012 | Show parent
  #199
Here for the gear
 
🎧 10 years
suntsu, after reading that review and your posts in this thread, I'm left thinking either:

1) You've never actually used Lush
2) You're being paid by another dev
3) Your ears do not work
4) All of the above
Old 31st October 2012
  #200
Gear Addict
 
pearlywhites's Avatar
 
🎧 5 years
its the ultimate DJ Zinc synth. killer on a dual core
Old 31st October 2012
  #201
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🎧 5 years
I'm really digging Lush. I might just be thick but I can't mod that much other than the mods right next to the parameters. The modulation matrix only uses performance mods. Am I missing something?

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SGH-I777
Old 31st October 2012 | Show parent
  #202
Gear Head
 
suntsu's Avatar
 
1 Review written
🎧 10 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dusk1983 ➑️
suntsu, after reading that review and your posts in this thread, I'm left thinking either:

1) You've never actually used Lush
2) You're being paid by another dev
3) Your ears do not work
4) All of the above
According to the definition, a review is :

Quote:
A critical appraisal of a book, play, film, etc. published in a newspaper, magazine, blog, etc.
The most important in this definition are the words "critical appraisal".

If you're not happy with my review just have a look to this Review : D16 LuSH-101 Review They gave 98% to the LuSH-101 which is perfectly normal because the LuSH-101 is obviously the perfect VA...

Have a nice day ;-)
Old 31st October 2012 | Show parent
  #203
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Synthpark's Avatar
 
2 Reviews written
🎧 5 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by LotuZia ➑️
Well the Synthix can be seen as an unit wich can become very complex

yeah yeah yeah its about LUSH here
Old 31st October 2012 | Show parent
  #204
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🎧 10 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by Synthpark ➑️
yeah yeah yeah its about LUSH here

No probs I did not menntion it at once, but in a second time t'was just an exemple to illustrate the multi layer synths VS several instances of the same synth side debate. I could not use Lush to demonstate it because I dont know it enough.

So beeing multilayer is imho one of Lush strengths, or interesting and rare features , if you prefer.
Old 31st October 2012 | Show parent
  #205
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Synthpark's Avatar
 
2 Reviews written
🎧 5 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by LotuZia ➑️
No probs I did not menntion it at once, but in a second time t'was just an exemple to illustrate the multi layer synths VS several instances of the same synth side debate. I could not use Lush to demonstate it because I dont know it enough.

So beeing multilayer is imho one of Lush strengths, or interesting and rare features , if you prefer.
I guess you are smart enough to figure it out within 5 minutes. It's really easy ...

By the way: as you mentioned Synthix. There are two categories of synths for me: those which drive my cpu core crazy and those which do not. So Synthix and Lush don't work well on my Macbook Pro, but Diva does, because it is multi-core capable. How about going multicore then?
Old 24th November 2012 | Show parent
  #206
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Synthpark's Avatar
 
2 Reviews written
🎧 5 years
You guys talk and talk and talk

but this has a bug:

when you are in using one voice

and play legato, the second note is retriggered at note off of the first note.

WTF !!!!! Until this is fixed, this synth is GARBAGE. Got it? Thanks.
Old 24th November 2012
  #207
Here for the gear
 
🎧 5 years
ooooo, cant wait for this.
Old 24th November 2012 | Show parent
  #208
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🎧 10 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by Synthpark ➑️
You guys talk and talk and talk

but this has a bug:

when you are in using one voice

and play legato, the second note is retriggered at note off of the first note.

WTF !!!!! Until this is fixed, this synth is GARBAGE. Got it? Thanks.
How exactly do you reproduce this? I can't reproduce that with one voice, mono on or off (what's the point of mono button btw?).
Old 26th November 2012 | Show parent
  #209
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Synthpark's Avatar
 
2 Reviews written
🎧 5 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by raymondwave ➑️
How exactly do you reproduce this? I can't reproduce that with one voice, mono on or off (what's the point of mono button btw?).
ok, I found the "Problem". In options, there is a setting "use original sh 101 retrigger", a weird thing. I turned it off. The point with mono ... don't know yet.
Old 28th November 2012
  #210
Gear Maniac
 
VastArray's Avatar
 
🎧 5 years
Have been demoing this for a few days. Very tempted. Fills a hole in my sound capabilities for tight plucks, supersaws and bass layering. Multi-threaded would be better, but I haven't found or made a patch yet that caused a problem on my i7. Parameter linking across multiple layers would be useful. Love the straight forward GUI.

Anyone get deep into programing this thing yet? Thoughts on the depth of variation possible? Do you find it to be a simple workhorse synth or something more?
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