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D16 Lush - new Diva Competitor?
Old 23rd October 2012
  #121
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🎧 10 years
I am downloading now.

Its looks cool and the demos sounded pretty amazing.I for one didn't like the sound of Diva.
Old 23rd October 2012 | Show parent
  #122
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atma's Avatar
 
🎧 15 years
i dunno.. it has a very harsh, crunchy, grainy, digital sound to my ears. haven't done any measurements of aliasing or otherwise. just my impression of it.. it kind of hurts to listen to it.

i wouldn't compare it to diva in the slightest, which has a very smooth, liquid analog sound. Lush is the polar opposite. But again, i've found that quality to some degree in their other plugins as well.
Old 23rd October 2012 | Show parent
  #123
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hogo's Avatar
 
🎧 10 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by atma ➑️
i dunno.. it has a very harsh, crunchy, grainy, digital sound to my ears. haven't done any measurements of aliasing or otherwise. just my impression of it.. it kind of hurts to listen to it.

i wouldn't compare it to diva in the slightest, which has a very smooth, liquid analog sound. Lush is the polar opposite. But again, i've found that quality to some degree in their other plugins as well.
that's actually what I like about it.
Old 23rd October 2012
  #124
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kacperson's Avatar
 
🎧 5 years
Guys If I can run few instances of diva easilly (yhough when working i work on lowest qual but not always,just switching to check the sound in best from time to time,just when exporting i switch to export it in best qual.) I can use this synth?


my base laptop i use is a 3 core 3.0 ghz cpu with 4gbs ram ,Or i should forget about this synth ? Id demo it but demos sometimes were misleading for me (working in terms of efficiency diffrent then final full product)
Old 23rd October 2012 | Show parent
  #125
Gear Head
 
AmbientMonkey's Avatar
 
🎧 5 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by kacperson ➑️
Guys If I can run few instances of diva easilly (yhough when working i work on lowest qual but not always,just switching to check the sound in best from time to time,just when exporting i switch to export it in best qual.) I can use this synth?


my base laptop i use is a 3 core 3.0 ghz cpu with 4gbs ram ,Or i should forget about this synth ? Id demo it but demos sometimes were misleading for me (working in terms of efficiency diffrent then final full product)
For me it's definitely using less CPU than Diva or maybe equal, many people probably try to play presets that have few layers, unison enabled, and polyphonic long releases, or supersaw, you name it, in that case it's normal, that it demands a lot of CPU, but if you create your own patches, then it's less CPU hungry, and on par with diva in that department.

Here's a few "acid" tracks I made today on a set up similar to yours and was able to run 4 instances live, while some people claiming, that they get maxed out 12 cores with one instance So watch out for, how many layers, unison voices, how many polyphony voices, and how long release times are.

Demo it it's worth

Here's my morning acid jam
All Lush (no presets), accept for drums (programmed by me), no compression, Eq or limiting applied, just messing around



Old 23rd October 2012
  #126
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kacperson's Avatar
 
🎧 5 years
the last one sounds so...Prydish to me (Pryda ,alias of prydz) Not in terms of xomposition but in terms of sound...Sounds a lot like his older productions to me especially this lush sidechained pad sound. And I like this sound really a lot,it sounds good man ! Will give a try to demo
Old 23rd October 2012 | Show parent
  #127
Lives for gear
 
🎧 10 years
It really does depend a lot on the patch. Here's two instances of LuSH-101 (reso arp and bass arp), the bass consume ~8 % and the reso arp ~25 % of MacBook Pro 2,3 i7 cpu.

I never really liked using resonance on any of my synths (with the exception of d16 phoscyon), but in this it's absolutely gorgeous!

Both arps made with the arpeggiator. The tie-function is pretty nice.
Attached Files

lush_arp.mp3 (1.47 MB, 366 views)

Old 23rd October 2012
  #128
Gear Maniac
 
🎧 10 years
I'm loving this synth and I just made this quick Kraftwerk cover just using LuSH-101, check it out!

Old 23rd October 2012
  #129
Gear Addict
 
🎧 10 years
Im surprised there isn't more buzz around this synth right now. To my ears these demos sound more analog like than any other softie ive tryed.
Old 24th October 2012 | Show parent
  #130
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suntsu's Avatar
 
1 Review written
🎧 10 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by Augsy ➑️
Im surprised there isn't more buzz around this synth right now. To my ears these demos sound more analog like than any other softie ive tryed.
If the LuSH-101 was released 2 years ago maybe, but during the very, very, very, long creation period, the SEM V from Arturia came to life and of course the DIVA from U-He which is the best analog virtual synth I ever heard...

The LuSH-101 is a good synthesizer, no doubt about it but he is not revolutionary in any way

LuSH-101 Review
Old 24th October 2012 | Show parent
  #131
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AmbientMonkey's Avatar
 
🎧 5 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bergman ➑️
I'm loving this synth and I just made this quick Kraftwerk cover just using LuSH-101, check it out!

Great , now please do Computer Love just kidding
Old 24th October 2012 | Show parent
  #132
Lives for gear
 
🎧 10 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by suntsu ➑️
If the LuSH-101 was released 2 years ago maybe, but during the very, very, very, long creation period, the SEM V from Arturia came to life and of course the DIVA from U-He which is the best analog virtual synth I ever heard...

The LuSH-101 is a good synthesizer, no doubt about it but he is not revolutionary in any way
I was thinking about this the other day and came to a conclusion that in a way synths are like digital cameras, people expect each new product to have more megapixels, even if they have no use for them. People expect something revolutionary of every new model. Look at Apple iPhone too, it's desparate how they need to market their new iPhone as amazing and revolutionary when most people don't even realize what the difference is to it's predessor.

10-15 years ago when I was in market for a synth or a reverb, I didn't look at the features or tech specs much. It was nice if a synth had multiple outputs, but I demoed Roland, Korg, Access, Novation etc. Walked to the store, connected my headphones and started playing and tweaking. That's what I still do, I download the demo and listen. What sells me most of the time is the relation between how the oscs and filter sound and how the envelopes behave. Then I advance to LFO's etc.

I think there's a hunt for megapixels going on, it's the same thing in camera forums. People can't appreciate a new camera if it has less megapixels than they used to have, even if it took marvelous images.

I love SEM V and I love LuSH too. I didn't love Diva. I love my V-station too and it came out almost 10 years ago.

I still don't know what aliasing means btw.

(This wasn't a straight reply to anyone, I'm sure people have their own reasons to like and not like certain synths, what suntsu wrote just covers the same ground I was writing here).
Old 24th October 2012
  #133
Lives for gear
 
🎧 10 years
Yea...good comparison to the megapixel thing.

Fact is...the most important thing on the camera (If Digital) is the lens.

I had a friends old Sony DSC-F717 that was very expensive when it came out. I think around $1k. Ridiculous for a 5 mexapixel camera, right? Ridiculous.

Well..... it took hands down better pictures than most 5 even 6 megapixel cameras that were either pocket sized or medium sized that I've seen including their own slim line camera that looks horrible.

What I think made the Sony DSC-F707 look so awesome was that it let in ALOT of light with the Carl Zeiss Optics. Even though the newer camera I had used said "Zeiss" optics as well...the lens is tiny...like a pen cap.

So you can get ALOT of bells and whistles but it doesn't always make it better.

Heck, an old 35mm Nikon blows away brand new digital cameras unless we are talking about the $$700+ range like the Canon t3i T4i (5D-7D).... stuff like that.

I have waited ALONG time for LUSH though.....perhaps I'll need to dive into it myself. I think some of the above samples sound really good. Raymonds especially sound nice....like a demo should sound.
Old 24th October 2012 | Show parent
  #134
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crufty's Avatar
 
6 Reviews written
🎧 10 years
lush cpu is much higher then diva

mbp i7 ableton x32 au - supersaw patch (4 layers) sounds good, 40 - 80% cpu usag at normal mode, pegs > 104% @ high mode (and glitches out)

i really need macro knobs or a global "all layer" layer. I can't figure out how to turn off vibrato on mod wheel.

the layer mixer is like a mini daw--each layer has swept eq, compressor, fx sends.
Old 24th October 2012
  #135
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🎧 5 years
It's totally subjective, I know, but to me (maybe others) DCAM is the nicest Analogue emulation.
Old 25th October 2012
  #136
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Acid Hazard's Avatar
 
🎧 10 years
Has anyone noticed the filter steps quite a bit?
Old 25th October 2012 | Show parent
  #137
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atma's Avatar
 
🎧 15 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by raymondwave ➑️
People expect something revolutionary of every new model.
i think we should. we've had subtractive synthesis technology for what, 40+ years? i think sound synthesis is way, WAY behind where it could/ought to be, considering the technology available. 3d computer graphics designers are getting close to the point where they can model photorealistic scenes for films from a single PC, no different from what musicians are using, and we're still stuck trying to model triangle and square waves from archaic keyboards; i think it's actually pretty ridiculous. in my mind we ought to be able to synthesize completely realistic and convincing acoustic type sounds without sampling by this point, but we can barely model a half decent emulation of 40+ year old subtractive synth technology that uses the most basic waveforms imaginable. the majority of virtual instruments being developed are incredibly banal and there's a reason people are expectant that developers start stepping it up.
Old 25th October 2012 | Show parent
  #138
Gear Addict
 
🎧 5 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by atma ➑️
i think we should. we've had subtractive synthesis technology for what, 40+ years? i think sound synthesis is way, WAY behind where it could/ought to be, considering the technology available. 3d computer graphics designers are getting close to the point where they can model photorealistic scenes for films from a single PC, no different from what musicians are using, and we're still stuck trying to model triangle and square waves from archaic keyboards; i think it's actually pretty ridiculous. in my mind we ought to be able to synthesize completely realistic and convincing acoustic type sounds without sampling by this point, but we can barely model a half decent emulation of 40+ year old subtractive synth technology that uses the most basic waveforms imaginable. the majority of virtual instruments being developed are incredibly banal and there's a reason people are expectant that developers start stepping it up.
Well there isn't a lack of people who aren't trying to make better sounding synths, using all kinds of different methods. Physical modelling is only going to get better as time goes on. Additive synthesis is starting to become practical, with powerful, but still cumbersome implementations in synths like Alchemy. I'm positive there are a ton of ways FM has yet to be explored. Granular synthesis offers a world of possibilities.

There are couple reasons why subtractives, however, dominate the marketplace:
1) they are conceptually easier to make
2) they are conceptually and usually practically easier to use
3) other synthesis methods require quite a bit of computation and resources, complex interfaces, etc, that make their use cumbersome and difficult, especially for people who don't know a lot about synthesis
4) today's musical genres are not very adventurous, subtractive synthesis more than fits the bill for these musicians and producers, who drive the market
5) other methods of synthesis may have restrictive patents (let me be clear, I'm supportive of patent holders, but it can pose a barrier to development in some cases); shouldn't be hard to overcome for companies with financial backing, but certain small developers may not find it to be worth their time
6) a lot of the people who want to use other methods of synthesis typically are knowledgeable enough that they simply build their own instruments in Max, Reaktor, Csound, C++, etc; this simply diffuses the market for people who would otherwise purchase a product that uses these other methods (as for what they make, sometime they give them for free, sometimes paid, but you have to search to find them).
7) unlike film, where there is a significant amount of money both being spent and made that will improve the visual technologies, the music industry is small pickings, and funding for R&D for synths is entirely on the shoulder of developers, who often are too small to take on earth-shattering projects

But, that doesn't mean there isn't plenty of improvement that can be made in subtractive synths; and furthermore, the gains made in subtractive can laterally benefit other synthesis methods. Take Diva for example; it brought a new standard of quality for subtractive synths, and it did this with extremely detailed modelling on actual circuitry; u-he also used PSpice to for the the project, in addition to making extremely good filters using zero-delay feedback. We're only going to see further refinements going forward, and it's only a matter of time before advances like these make it into synths that aren't subtractive in nature.
Old 25th October 2012 | Show parent
  #139
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atma's Avatar
 
🎧 15 years
completely agree!

Quote:
Originally Posted by KBSoundSmith ➑️
Well there isn't a lack of people who aren't trying to make better sounding synths, using all kinds of different methods. Physical modelling is only going to get better as time goes on. Additive synthesis is starting to become practical, with powerful, but still cumbersome implementations in synths like Alchemy. I'm positive there are a ton of ways FM has yet to be explored. Granular synthesis offers a world of possibilities.

There are couple reasons why subtractives, however, dominate the marketplace:
1) they are conceptually easier to make
2) they are conceptually and usually practically easier to use
3) other synthesis methods require quite a bit of computation and resources, complex interfaces, etc, that make their use cumbersome and difficult, especially for people who don't know a lot about synthesis
4) today's musical genres are not very adventurous, subtractive synthesis more than fits the bill for these musicians and producers, who drive the market
5) other methods of synthesis may have restrictive patents (let me be clear, I'm supportive of patent holders, but it can pose a barrier to development in some cases); shouldn't be hard to overcome for companies with financial backing, but certain small developers may not find it to be worth their time
6) a lot of the people who want to use other methods of synthesis typically are knowledgeable enough that they simply build their own instruments in Max, Reaktor, Csound, C++, etc; this simply diffuses the market for people who would otherwise purchase a product that uses these other methods (as for what they make, sometime they give them for free, sometimes paid, but you have to search to find them).
7) unlike film, where there is a significant amount of money both being spent and made that will improve the visual technologies, the music industry is small pickings, and funding for R&D for synths is entirely on the shoulder of developers, who often are too small to take on earth-shattering projects

But, that doesn't mean there isn't plenty of improvement that can be made in subtractive synths; and furthermore, the gains made in subtractive can laterally benefit other synthesis methods. Take Diva for example; it brought a new standard of quality for subtractive synths, and it did this with extremely detailed modelling on actual circuitry; u-he also used PSpice to for the the project, in addition to making extremely good filters using zero-delay feedback. We're only going to see further refinements going forward, and it's only a matter of time before advances like these make it into synths that aren't subtractive in nature.
Old 25th October 2012 | Show parent
  #140
Gear Head
 
suntsu's Avatar
 
1 Review written
🎧 10 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by atma ➑️
i think we should. we've had subtractive synthesis technology for what, 40+ years? i think sound synthesis is way, WAY behind where it could/ought to be, considering the technology available. 3d computer graphics designers are getting close to the point where they can model photorealistic scenes for films from a single PC, no different from what musicians are using, and we're still stuck trying to model triangle and square waves from archaic keyboards; i think it's actually pretty ridiculous. in my mind we ought to be able to synthesize completely realistic and convincing acoustic type sounds without sampling by this point, but we can barely model a half decent emulation of 40+ year old subtractive synth technology that uses the most basic waveforms imaginable. the majority of virtual instruments being developed are incredibly banal and there's a reason people are expectant that developers start stepping it up.
IMHO, the software synthesis has already progressed a lot ! Just have a look to the DIVA, the filter react with an accuracy of one sample... DIVA is an example but Arturia made also good convincing emulation synth, and they evolved, just give a try to the SEM V and you'll understand what I mean...
A violin will always remain a violin and even if you can fake it, it remains a complex piece of hardware that can't be faked, the original will always be better... Like humans... You can emulate an human (like ASIMO does) but you will never be able to create its equivalent...
Old 25th October 2012
  #141
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mike vee's Avatar
 
2 Reviews written
🎧 10 years
does this also hog one full i7 core per note?
Old 25th October 2012 | Show parent
  #142
Gear Head
 
suntsu's Avatar
 
1 Review written
🎧 10 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by mike vee ➑️
does this also hog one full i7 core per note?
I don't think so, I tried the LuSH-101 extensively and in any way with my i5 750 / 8Go Ram / M-Audio Audiophile 192 96Khz / buffer set to 512 with multi-layer presets and 3 up to 4 notes polyphony without a Glitch... But I agree the LuSH-101 is a resource hog... Don't even try to set a bunch of LuSH-101 instances while playing polyphony
Old 25th October 2012 | Show parent
  #143
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mike vee's Avatar
 
2 Reviews written
🎧 10 years
i have a 6 core 980x which is fully optimized (i am a bit of a comp nerd, yes) and could not even begin to play the diva demo successfully. but i don't use any VSTis anymore anyway.
Old 25th October 2012 | Show parent
  #144
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atma's Avatar
 
🎧 15 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by mike vee ➑️
i have a 6 core 980x which is fully optimized (i am a bit of a comp nerd, yes) and could not even begin to play the diva demo successfully. but i don't use any VSTis anymore anyway.
that isn't right. you must've used the early version that didn't support multi cores.
Old 25th October 2012 | Show parent
  #145
Gear Head
 
suntsu's Avatar
 
1 Review written
🎧 10 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by mike vee ➑️
i have a 6 core 980x which is fully optimized (i am a bit of a comp nerd, yes) and could not even begin to play the diva demo successfully. but i don't use any VSTis anymore anyway.
If you have the last update of the DIVA, it consumes more than 40% less CPU power and I have no problem to use up to 5 instance of the DIVA with 3 up to 4 notes polyphony with only an i5 750...
Old 25th October 2012 | Show parent
  #146
Lives for gear
 
🎧 10 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by atma ➑️
i think we should. we've had subtractive synthesis technology for what, 40+ years? i think sound synthesis is way, WAY behind where it could/ought to be, considering the technology available. 3d computer graphics designers are getting close to the point where they can model photorealistic scenes for films from a single PC, no different from what musicians are using, and we're still stuck trying to model triangle and square waves from archaic keyboards; i think it's actually pretty ridiculous. in my mind we ought to be able to synthesize completely realistic and convincing acoustic type sounds without sampling by this point, but we can barely model a half decent emulation of 40+ year old subtractive synth technology that uses the most basic waveforms imaginable. the majority of virtual instruments being developed are incredibly banal and there's a reason people are expectant that developers start stepping it up.
I think we're talking about two different things. Ofcourse there needs to be advanced stuff and some developers certainly drive things forward, but subtractive synthesis is here to stay and it's gonna pop out in various formats from here to eternity, just like piano and guitar etc.

I wouldn't want a revolutionary guitar either, I just want a good sounding one that is fun to play.
Old 26th October 2012 | Show parent
  #147
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mike vee's Avatar
 
2 Reviews written
🎧 10 years
oh ok, ill give it another try, yea it was when it first came out
Old 26th October 2012 | Show parent
  #148
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kacperson's Avatar
 
🎧 5 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by mike vee ➑️
i have a 6 core 980x which is fully optimized (i am a bit of a comp nerd, yes) and could not even begin to play the diva demo successfully. but i don't use any VSTis anymore anyway.
lol i run few intances of diva without freezing (though in lower qual mode) on a 3 core amd chipset with 4gbs ram.... And offcourse i export in highest qual (there is setting for it)
Old 26th October 2012 | Show parent
  #149
Gear Addict
 
🎧 5 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by EvilDragon ➑️
My impression is that LuSH doesn't justify its CPU usage with adequate sound, as Diva does.

Which would make sense, seeing as Diva is actually real time circuit modeled where this is standard DSP, right?
Old 26th October 2012 | Show parent
  #150
Gear Head
 
suntsu's Avatar
 
1 Review written
🎧 10 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by Xonetacular ➑️
Which would make sense, seeing as Diva is actually real time circuit modeled where this is standard DSP, right?
Yes and DIVA is really a technical revolution... LuSH is good but not better than the other VA... Just have a look to the upper spectrum while working at a 44.1kHz sample rate with the LuSh and you'll notice aliasing... This is not acceptable...

Everytime that someone tells the D16 that their Alias-free synth is not alias free they doesn't answer... This is a shame... I love D16 group they made incredible VST(i) but this time after 3 years they released a synth that's finally nothing more than a good VA...

Just have a look to the screen shots of my review and you'll see what I mean !

LuSH-101 Review
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