Thanks for the help! I was going to answer HomeProducer's blathering, but you did an excellent job!

I also have to admit that I've not listened to commercial radio for a great many years, but I'm listening to the latest from Bjork and it seems like there's a fair amount of basic old school drum machine on it. What it actually is is anyone's guess but it sounds like your classic x0x style sound to me, so that's the point. I don't know if anything on Biophilia is a hit, but it's current... also sounds like there's old school organ and various acoustic instruments on the album as well. The album has a lot of very interesting things going on, yet none of it is very "new" sounding to me. I can pretty much identify most everything. What makes it "new" is that the song writing and arrangements are new. So what I'm saying it that as long as something sounds good (or as intended) and the music has depth, who cares if you use a 909 or you're Lady Gaga using Logic? Re: Gaga, I was talking about the fact that she uses traditional piano in her music... or at least she did on the Sirius radio show I heard her on. Had one brought in special for the interview. TBH, I don't think much of her or her music. To me she seems all smoke and mirrors and very little substance at all. But I am an old man, so what do I know?

No, I hear you, and I was actually pretty successful in getting some analog style sounds out of it. Not as good as Himalaya's but in that general direction. I think what I was meaning was that it seemed a long way around the park to get something pretty simple. I'm sure as I spent more time with it I'd get better finding what I want, but it just seemed like it took me a lot longer to get that type of sound in Tremor as it would have taken me in other software instruments.

Man, you prove it every time, that its hopeless to have a discussion with you and that it's hopeless to assume you would ever review your own point of view. Live in your strange world as long as you are happy and call everyone who has not your narrow mind blathering. I really don't care. "Excellent job" in showing the limited scope, lol.

I've been on the fence about Tremor since I heard about it last month but the $99 early adopters discount for Geist owners is swaying me a little bit and I feel like this thread has only additionally swayed my opinion on getting it.

I'll probably sit the bench for a few more days before I bite the bullet but I personally wish Geist would have been updated with the functionality Tremor provides in an update, different strokes, different folks though, and I understand they're two separate entities.

Guys you are derailing the thread, and making it very hard to read, please for the sake of others take it to PMs if you wish to continue your personal exchanges.

Back OT about how Tremor "stacks up" against other drum machines. Does anyone here own Tremor and Arturia Spark?

They seem to cover a lot of the same ground, outside of the fact that Tremor doesnt have a dedicated controller and cant manipulate samples. Ive been considering Spark for a while now, and Im now wondering how its VA engine and sequencer compares, in terms of sounds and ease of use, to Tremor.

Both Tremor and Spark have downloadable demos and are easy enough to compare on your own. I did. I thought Spark wasn't very good in the synthesis dept, but of course YMMV.

Only if you don't know what you are talking about.




.

If you read though the posts instead of just yelling about something that has nothing to do with this thread, you'll see that I did recommend Tremor as the correct choice for the OP. Let me refresh your memory:

fwiw, I also don't believe that Tremor does analog as good as analog gear, including the 909. Just like I don't think Diva does analog as good as my ATC-1. I own Diva and I'll probably be buying Tremor. Why? Because they are useful for other things and often good enough for me, but remember, unlike you I feel that the music should be the focus, not the production. Himalaya proved you can get "phattness' out of Tremor, but whether or not it's better than a 909 is personal choice and the poster who said they loved their 909's sound has a valid opinion. WTF, it's a classic! Good enough for me to own? Nope, never will. Why? Not that important to me. Samples of stuff like that is fine when I want that sound, but I'll always defend someone's personal preference to make music on something that inspires them, whether it's a 909 or they're mom's old Tupperware. (the old vintages stuff mind you, not the new Tupperware that lacks warmth and punch)

and yes, I will die believing that the essence of all music is the creativity of the composer, not the innovation of sound. You can put all the new and cool production techniques and new electronic instruments in the world on a crappy song and it'll be a nice sounding crappy song. This, I believe, is exactly what Lady Gaga does and why I believe she'll be forgotten. On the other hand, someone like Bjork or Laurie Anderson uses interesting and innovative production to enhance good music. I also believe that it is totally possible to make really great interesting music using an unprocessed 909 and a kazoo, and also possible to make horrific music with the same instruments. It's also possible to make amazingly bland music using cutting edge high end instruments and production techniques... and we call that top 40 radio.

You've said this sort of things in a few places now, but really which types of sounds are you finding hard to make? My guess is that it isn't analog drum sounds that you are finding hard to make, but non analogue sounds...

This thing sounds great and I have no idea how idea how you are not able to make 808 type sounds, this does that type of sound extremely well.

I think Tremor sounds great. It compares really very well with my Vermona and the sequencing and modulation are awesome, simple and powerful. I'd take Tremor over a Tempest, 808, or 909 to be honest. It's really great.

I'd love two things, a simple sample module, and a manual timing nudge for each track, but even without that I think it's really very fun to work with!! Oh, could be great fun to use audio in and the modulation on fx, in time with modulation on beats too. (if you want ideas fxpansion..)

the thing is, he probably doesn't know it himself, he just claims these things as facts because "it has to be like that".

I didn't like her last album at all, sorry, doesn't sound musical for my ears, regardless of production techniques. And I would not even rate it above Lady Gaga, although Lady Gaga has failed for me in song writing with the last couple of tracks. It's not Dave Tipper, that album has everything.

The discussion started with a 909 being sonically superior compared to software. That was the point of discussion and I don't agree with that.

but lets finish at this point.

you want to make people dance, buy a banjo and have a ho-down.

Making music for listeners and making people dance isn't exclusive from
the gear. In fact, the opposite could be argued.

I may use gear names but make no mistake, the only reason the gear is
important is because the way it makes me or others feel when used in certain
ways.

There's a difference in this fabric:


And this fabric:


Both purple. Both cover the body. The first isn't designed for keeping her
warm. It's to convey an emotion to the wearer and/or other party.
I'm sure the designer had her in mind... so to discuss that type of fabric
does not exclude her at all.

No, I won't finish because you're twisting what people are saying so that you have something to fight against. No one ever said a 909 was better. No one. Someone said they liked their 909 better. Do you see? The first statement can be argued, the second is a personal preference and can't be argued. Why are you against people having personal preferences that are different than yours? I can't see what you have to gain.

As to whether or not Tremor sounds as "analog" as analog hardware... I think you'll have a hard time convincing many people who swear by their hardware of that. So, you're basically saying to everyone who bought a DRM-1, Mashinedrum, Tempest or x0x that they could have saved themselves a lot of money and just gotten $149 worth of software. By the same logic you'd argue that anyone with an analog hardware synth should just chuck it on eBay and buy DCAM. Well, I have DCAM and I have some analog hardware and all I can say is if you don't appreciate the difference, by all means get the software, but I do appreciate the difference so, again, that's my personal preference.

As for the Gaga v Bjork v Tipper argument, again, personal taste but Tipper sounds like a bunch of very cool sounds sequenced out in a formulaic pattern. It honestly sounds like good instrument demo songs to me, but to each their own. I do like it a lot more than Lady Gaga though, but I'm not going to go out and buy some of his music any time soon. I'll also stand by his choice to do things 100% ITB, even though I prefer a hybrid approach.

Again, I'll stand by my statement that good music is good music regardless of what it's made with and an artist's tools are a very personal thing. Why you feel your opinion is "fact" is where I question you. If I find a tool like Microtonic more conducive to ease of programming a certain type of sound, why am I wrong? I just thought it would be nice if there were a few alternate synth engines per type in Tremor, that's all I said.

I'm sure your point is valid but showing me women in underwear while trying to get me to think is a bad approach.

I understand what you're saying about the gear, I never said choice of gear was irrelevant or anything like that, I spend ages researching and testing but once I've found the tool, it's just that a tool in the kit. We both know the gear doesn't write the song (much *cough*), i think you've took my point a little wrong, understandable as I just wrote a few lines. Give me the choice between Phosycon and a 303 with a Devilfish mod and I'll take the hardware every time, who wouldn't?

My point was more that some people seem to put more focus on being original/otb/'authentic' that creating the actual song, a danceable song with impact. Maybe that's not what they want? Maybe they just want to make something for themselves and see if anyone else likes it? Maybe they just want to tell a story with music? That's fine and what I have said is then totally irrelevant. At the end of the day It's not my place to tell people what to do and nor would I, unless I was drunk, I'm just stating an opinion and trying to offer advice fwiw.

oh really, no one? Then you should concentrate more while reading. Its always the same story about analog having more punch and all the stuff.

Oh yes, in some cases I would say that, in others not. For example, I would no way spend money on the tempest, because it sounds lame to me, at least what I have heard till now. And the machinedrum is digital, so whats the point, why should it be better any good software with good converters?

I do have some HW synths myself and they are not replaceble for their character.

Strange, for me Tipper sounds about a factor 100 deeper than Bjork. But only if you get into his music.

That you should ask yourself!

Where is that mute button?

Today as I tried the MD for the first time, those words from you post popped into my head. I shit you not!

After 8 vodka sodas they both look the same! heh

I get what you are saying. Give me $2000+ and a choice between
a xoxbox and a TB303 and I'll take the xoxbox + $1500 of something
else. It's close enough for rock and roll.

But my moral compass would push me towards something authentic
if the original creator was still feeding his family off his design, like
counterfeit clothing or flea-market DVDs, etc.


heh
May I recommend not drinking 8 vodka sodas before using a
loaded weapon, lest you misfire... so to speak.


RE: Tremor

I find it commendable that Angus/FXP team didn't 100% opt
for classic drum greatest hit emulations and instead focused
on creating a new instrument.

As Himalaya showed, those sounds are certainly available
with some work. FXP could have made them easier to stumble
upon by removing some features. I'm personally glad they
didn't.

Seems to me to be a "west-coast" philosophy combined with
the classic "east-coast", if such a thing even applies to
drum machines (which the 808/909 are really west-coast to me).

It makes sense, people get something new and try to create
their current reference point as the first trial. Then after some
time and mastery sets in, the new textures available creep into
underground or popular music.

If FXP was going for the quick buck, they could've gone the
safe route. Now they may face the initial blowback of missing
the instant gratification. In the long run, I bet the product will
have a longer shelve life and be more profitable due to having
unique features and character. A much wiser decision IMHO.

you see, you are becoming more and more of a troll for me with every new posting. You claim I present things as facts and you do it all the time, even without noticing. And you get so emotional, and it that moment on you sound only silly .. So welcome on my personal ignore list. See, I tried to make my postings short, but you extend them (like #99). Did you notice how much space you have occupied on this page??? So that pseudo-philosophical garbage what you have produced which is just you restricted way of thinking I would like to skip. thanks.

Yes, that "pseudo-philosophical garbage" is called thinking. You should try it some time. Also, my garbage's message, if you knew how to read, states that no personal choice for instrument is wrong or "worse" as you state, if that personal choice leads the artist to a point of inspiration (and/or inspiration to others).

So that's my restricted way of thinking. I'm a god damned fascist because I think that artists shouldn't be cut down because of the tools they've chosen, or insulted because they choose to focus their creativity in composition and not sound design. Beware of me. I may come to your house and command you to do what you want to do.

As if someone put anyone down for using a 909. I don't know if that's the case but less weed can open the view.
You sound like you wanna defend human rights.

It took me a while to get my head round it. In fact, I still am but I'm enjoying experimenting with it.

The progression from disco to house and the links that still exist are undeniable.
Where do you think tons of the patterns and samples in house/techno have been coming from ?
There's more examples than I could list..
As you are no doubt aware there is a whole "genre" of house based on looping the best bit from a disco record. Half the time the sounds aren't even changed.

Yes, It's a bit clean and bright for analogue.

Yes, especially the claps.

That doesn't mean that both clips don't sound good though.

I'll pass on thre Strat. I've already got enough firewood to see me through the winter

Downloading now. Will try them when I get the chance.

B*ll*cks

I hear what you're saying, and agree on some level, but my only point was that if something's going to gobble up 60% of my CPU, it had better be VERY versatile and if I want a 909ish bass drum, it should be there if it's capable of it. Preset memory is free for a software developer. It's clear Himalaya can do it, and I've gotten some great vintage sounding patches out of it as well. My only confusion was why didn't they show that off in the first place? Aren't the presets supposed to show a full range of the instruments capability?

Oh well, looks like FX has seen it's mistake and are taking steps to correct it. My only wish now is that there was some visual representation that better indicated what drum sound you were editing. Often I'm bouncing back and forth with the sequencer going and it currently can get confusing.

So far I have got three vintage drum machines re-created in Tremor. Roland CR78, Wersimatic WM24 and Maestro Rythm King.

A few problems: certain sounds are closer than others, kicks and snare sounds were the easiest to do, followed by hats (but even these were a challenge, surprisingly), but any kind of metallic hits, maracas were very difficult. The pitch and timbre is off in many cases. For this reason, these are not 100% authentic emulations, think of them as offering a flavour of the original. Also, I couldn't fit all sounds into Tremor as it only has eight channels, and most of these old machines have many more sounds. Sometimes I could get two sounds in one channel by having each on a different velocity layer.

Anyway, here it is if anyone is interested:
http://www.electric-himalaya.com/stu...tage_Drums.mp3

Nice. I don't care about "accuracy" at all, and I hope others don't either. It's not marketed like a D16 emulation and if "exact" sounds are called for, there are always samples.

I still think more of these types of sounds were much needed. Why creating some weren't in your initial marching orders... I have no idea. Better late than never.

So, now that that's been established (no thanks to me except for a stream of critisism. ) The question of "Does Tremor stack up to Machinedrum and Jomox" becomes a bit more clear. It clearly doesn't replace a Machinedrum with its multiple synthesis and sampling capabilities, but it could become part of a suite of software and controller hardware that does. You'll first need some sort of controller. Offerings from Akai and NI would probably do fine. If you get something like Maschine or Spark, there's your samplers as well. (I didn't care much for Sparks synthesis engine) Of course you could always bypass a controller and input notes into your DAW via a mouse or even use your MIDI controller. If that's the case something like Battery or Kontakt would be good (actually a lot better than anything Machinedrum could do) Then you'll probably still want to have Drumaxx, Radian, Extreme Drum Synth (Physically modelled)and maybe Axon (FM) for other types of synthesis. Reaktor can handle those too in one package. (and a lot more) That's why I was kind of hoping Tremor had a choice of different synthesis types per sound, but oh well. I guess that would have priced it out of the market. I do like "one stop shopping" when I'm working with drum sounds.