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TX-802 vs TG-77 vs VZ-10m
Old 22nd May 2011
  #1
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1 Review written
🎧 10 years
TX-802 vs TG-77 vs VZ-10m

pick your poison?

I think I need something besides just simple 4op FM.

Here's what I came down to.. opinions?
Old 22nd May 2011
  #2
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🎧 10 years
A few questions:

Do you need multitimbrality?

What sort of sounds are you after?

Are you going to be making your own sounds or preset surfing?

Are you going to edit on the synth or on your computer?
Old 22nd May 2011 | Show parent
  #3
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1 Review written
🎧 10 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by rockmanrock ➑️
Do you need multitimbrality?
not really, but it would be nice for layering/detuning?

Quote:
Originally Posted by rockmanrock ➑️
What sort of sounds are you after?
FMish.
I have a D-550 for other sounds from the era.

Quote:
Originally Posted by rockmanrock ➑️
Are you going to be making your own sounds or preset surfing?
make my own.

Quote:
Originally Posted by rockmanrock ➑️
Are you going to edit on the synth or on your computer?
computer.
Old 22nd May 2011
  #4
Registered User
 
🎧 10 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by djugel ➑️
pick your poison?

I think I need something besides just simple 4op FM.

Here's what I came down to.. opinions?
If you want a more Familiar "vintage" sound

1) TX-802

If you want a sort of warm vintage hybrid

1) Casio VZ-10M

If you want a more modern sounding FM operator

1) TG77 (Although an SY99 is probably king along with the FS1R)
Old 23rd May 2011 | Show parent
  #5
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🎧 10 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by kstackm ➑️

If you want a more modern sounding FM operator

1) TG77 (Although an SY99 is probably king along with the FS1R)
The Sy99 is no better at FM than TG77 (or SY77). They all have the same FM engine. The only improvement in Sy99 is better effects section and a slightly improved filter, along with more samples + sample import. I can't remember if the converters were also improved...otherwise the FM engine is the same, hence it is no more of a King than the TG.

The SY99 has much better master keyboard functionality than Sy77, so that's one aspect worth thinking about if a master keyboard is required. But then the OP's list has modules only...

Anyway, my choice would be the TG77 as it has the original FM sound covered well along with new sonic ground not possible on the other listed modules. It would also be easier to edit from the front LCD screen, if a computer editor is not used.
Old 23rd May 2011 | Show parent
  #6
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🎧 10 years
I love my tg77 but the ability to import samples on the sy99 would add a lot to its versatility (not that it is limited, but the ability to integrate user samples into a synth engine is always a big deal) I would def chose the tg77, it covers a wide range of sounds and is very flexible and deep. I would also recommend checking out the k2000, a bit less '80s but also flexible and deep
Old 23rd May 2011 | Show parent
  #7
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CoolColJ's Avatar
 
🎧 10 years
Oh man that TG77 Brass sound I made sounds gorgeous through the SRE-555. It sounds pretty rich by itself, but gets even better with some analog processing



I like the little bits of distortion the RCM process creates when you hit a high velocity, a bit like a mic'ed sax.
I created this patch by accident, 3 FM operators modulated by itself through the RCM process the TG77 and SY synths have. None of the other FM synths have it, even the FS1R

I fired up my SRE-555 to test it one more time before I sell it, but now I'm not so sure
My Yamaha TG-77 happened to be on that new patch I made above.
SRE-555 chorus and spring reverb on the left, tape echo and sound on sound on the right
I turn the features on in stages
Dry --> chorus/Spring reverb, +echo, +sound on sound


I believe the SY and TG77 synths create the best FM brass sounds
There is a certain richness in the FM tones of the SY/TG synths. The earlier FM synths have a more cutting tone
Although with care you can emulate a lot of the older FM sounds on them.
There is a special formula you can follow to do so

The Casio, I've heard some good sounds, but don't have one on hand.
They sound different to the Yamaha FM synths.
Old 23rd May 2011 | Show parent
  #8
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5 Reviews written
🎧 10 years
TG77 all the way. It can do anything the other modules can do plus a lot more. Not too easy to program (and yet simpler than Kawai K5/5000 IMHO), but if you can bear with the steep learning curve, it'll be immensely rewarding.
Old 23rd May 2011 | Show parent
  #9
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CoolColJ's Avatar
 
🎧 10 years
You need Sounddiver with TG77
Old 23rd May 2011 | Show parent
  #10
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gregwar's Avatar
 
🎧 10 years
i had a dx7 II fd with E! expansion which is really similar to the 802. i also have a tg77 not wild about their tone. when i ran them through my dp/4 they sounded much better.

i really like the vz-10m. its velocity sensitive and you can use that to get some great distortion sounds. i would run it into my keeley mod boss ds-1 or adrenalinn 3 for creamy distortion.

the vz-10m is more limited than the tg77 but it doesn't necessarily need external processing as badly imo
Old 23rd May 2011 | Show parent
  #11
Registered User
 
🎧 10 years
I've used a TX7, VZ-10M and TG77, and definitely prefer the TG77. The VZ-10M has some unique features (ring modulation) but also some unfortunate limitations that really reduce its usefulness. The operator routing isn't very flexible, and the phases reset for each note. The TG77's more advanced features (3 arbitrary feedback loops, looping envelopes, filters, RCM, independent pitch modulation depth per operator) open up a huge amount of territory.

Quote:
Originally Posted by zosthegoatherd ➑️
I would also recommend checking out the k2000, a bit less '80s but also flexible and deep
Definitely. It can do its own (limited) FM as well.
Old 23rd May 2011 | Show parent
  #12
Registered User
 
🎧 10 years
CoolJ, I like the track, it sound like something the guy in your avatar would write - if he took space piano lesson of course.

Anyhow while on the subject of TX802 - (hope this isn't thread hogging), does any one know for sure if the Lexicon MRC can be used to control things like the original poster asked about? In my case it would be the TX-802. Looking to make programming easier. TX-802 in my expereince is best left as a preset surfboard. It comes with these pull-out card that are supposed to guide one through the FM programming architecture, but I just an old analogue VCO/ASDR/VFC kind of guy. It would be aweseom to find something that made FM stuff easy to program - or maybe I just don't have enough experience - does it get easier? Reports suggest it's alway painstaking.
Old 23rd May 2011 | Show parent
  #13
Registered User
 
🎧 10 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by CoolColJ ➑️
Oh man that TG77 Brass sound I made sounds gorgeous through the SRE-555. It sounds pretty rich by itself, but gets even better with some analog processing



I like the little bits of distortion the RCM process creates when you hit a high velocity, a bit like a mic'ed sax.
I created this patch by accident, 3 FM operators modulated by itself through the RCM process the TG77 and SY synths have. None of the other FM synths have it, even the FS1R
That really is lovely.
Old 23rd May 2011 | Show parent
  #14
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dlmorley's Avatar
 
1 Review written
🎧 20 years
Personal preference.

I prefer the TX802. Built like a tank. Cuts through a mix like nothing else and I prefer outboard FX anyway which is the main thing lacking compared to the others. It just sounds right to me.
You may prefer something else.
Old 23rd May 2011 | Show parent
  #15
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CoolColJ's Avatar
 
🎧 10 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by wooperman ➑️
CoolJ, I like the track, it sound like something the guy in your avatar would write - if he took space piano lesson of course.

Anyhow while on the subject of TX802 - (hope this isn't thread hogging), does any one know for sure if the Lexicon MRC can be used to control things like the original poster asked about? In my case it would be the TX-802. Looking to make programming easier. TX-802 in my expereince is best left as a preset surfboard. It comes with these pull-out card that are supposed to guide one through the FM programming architecture, but I just an old analogue VCO/ASDR/VFC kind of guy. It would be aweseom to find something that made FM stuff easy to program - or maybe I just don't have enough experience - does it get easier? Reports suggest it's alway painstaking.

Software editor would be much better, you need to be able to see the whole thing at a glance, envelopes and all
I like Sounddiver. There is also FM alive's DX manager, and probably some freeware ones around

and a whole lot of reading
Index of /files/yamaha/

this is not just for the SY/TG77, very good all round FM and synthesis info
http://chrisarndt.de/files/yamaha/SY...ng%20v0.60.pdf
Old 23rd May 2011 | Show parent
  #16
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CoolColJ's Avatar
 
🎧 10 years
VZ-1 sounds pretty good, but I've never seen one for sale

I used to have a CZ-101, CZ1000 and 5000. And you can get those weird, organy, pitch modulated tones that were so cool on them. Nothing else could do that sound.
Mr Lee of house music fame used to have all those types of sounds on his tracks

got GAS
Old 23rd May 2011
  #17
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projectwoofer's Avatar
 
🎧 10 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by djugel ➑️
pick your poison?

I think I need something besides just simple 4op FM.

Here's what I came down to.. opinions?
For Yamaha FM, I definitely prefer the first or second generation of their synths. Especially with a TX-802 you're able to split, layer, microtune etc. so this would be my choice. TG-77 is a very interesting module but it does not compare to a TX-802 in terms of pure sound. Of course it has expanded features but lots of them are just useless to me. I don't like its effect section nor its filter. Its FM engine is updated, yes, but soundwise inferior to the TX-802 IMHO. Plus with a TX-802, you get immediate access to thousands of free classic DX7 patches, no conversion needed.

The VZ-10M is a very powerful and good-sounding synth, in fact the best and more powerful synth Casio ever made. It's similar to the TX-802 in some ways but very different too. Its unique features include 8 operators with 8 waveforms each, phase distortion as well as ring modulation and of course 8 parts multitimbrality for splits and layers. When using the saw waves it sounds fantastic and very different than a TX-802. I'd get it in a heartbeat!

In short I'd get both the TX-802 and the VZ-10M. That's what I did anyway! heh
Old 23rd May 2011 | Show parent
  #18
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Rob Ocelot's Avatar
 
🎧 10 years
Something to consider when choosing a TG77, SY77, or SY99 is that the Optrex display backlights burn out quickly and the unloaded backlight inverters will emit a high pitch whine. Replacements and equivalent displays are around but the SY77 is a briar patch to take apart (and by extension I assume the SY99 is too).
Old 24th May 2011 | Show parent
  #19
Registered User
 
1 Review written
🎧 10 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by CoolColJ ➑️
house music
This is basically what I'm after.

What gives me this bass sound? I've come close with a Roland Juno-6 using the Sub OSC with chorus.. but it's not quite there... been thinking maybe it is FM after all.. B12 used this sound a lot as well... I think what I was getting out of the Juno-6 was more similar to "Can u Feel it" .. which isn't what I'm going for..

Old 24th May 2011 | Show parent
  #20
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1 Review written
🎧 10 years
Also - is there any decent software programmers for the Casio VZ-10m? editing that thing is a nightmare!!! Worst interface ever!! (graphic display is neato tho)
Old 24th May 2011 | Show parent
  #21
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asynchro_nous's Avatar
 
🎧 10 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by djugel ➑️
This is basically what I'm after.

What gives me this bass sound? I've come close with a Roland Juno-6 using the Sub OSC with chorus.. but it's not quite there... been thinking maybe it is FM after all.. B12 used this sound a lot as well... I think what I was getting out of the Juno-6 was more similar to "Can u Feel it" .. which isn't what I'm going for..

That bass sound is reminiscent of a DX100.
Old 24th May 2011 | Show parent
  #22
Registered User
 
1 Review written
🎧 10 years
Yeah,... maybe I should just get into the Korg 707 I got for peanuts. Got it just as a MIDI controller... maybe it's all the FM I really need?
Old 24th May 2011 | Show parent
  #23
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CoolColJ's Avatar
 
🎧 10 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by djugel ➑️
This is basically what I'm after.

What gives me this bass sound? I've come close with a Roland Juno-6 using the Sub OSC with chorus.. but it's not quite there... been thinking maybe it is FM after all.. B12 used this sound a lot as well... I think what I was getting out of the Juno-6 was more similar to "Can u Feel it" .. which isn't what I'm going for..

[youtube-]YijH5gorXIk[/youtube]
That's an FM synth

here is my TG77 doing a similar sound
https://gearspace.com/board/attachme...woodybass2.mp3

You just need an operator and a modulator with a higher frequency, short tight envelope for both
Old 24th May 2011 | Show parent
  #24
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1 Review written
🎧 10 years
hmmm... what FM synth do you think nails this sound?

Old 24th May 2011 | Show parent
  #25
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CoolColJ's Avatar
 
🎧 10 years
Same, any FM synth can do that sound

As can an analog synth with complex envelopes like say the Andromeda
Attached Files

CCJ_A6_TightSquareBass.mp3 (496.9 KB, 3123 views)

Old 24th May 2011 | Show parent
  #26
Registered User
 
1 Review written
🎧 10 years
hmm.. those don't sound close to me. I think you were closer before because the key to that sound is the "wood".

So.. should I just learn how to actually program my Korg 707?
Old 24th May 2011 | Show parent
  #27
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CoolColJ's Avatar
 
🎧 10 years
Like I said you need multi stage envelopes, which the FM synths have. And the Andromeda.

The wood thing is a definite FM trait.
Just make the modulator about 2 frequencies higher than the operator
Old 24th May 2011 | Show parent
  #28
Registered User
 
1 Review written
🎧 10 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by CoolColJ ➑️
Like I said you need multi stage envelopes, which the FM synths have. And the Andromeda.

The wood thing is a definite FM trait.
Just make the modulator about 2 frequencies higher than the operator
could you make it easier on me and just tell me if Korg 707 does that or not? Sorry I just trust you're knowledge of FM.. and I'm lazy and FM scares me to bits..
Old 24th May 2011 | Show parent
  #29
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CoolColJ's Avatar
 
🎧 10 years
I'm not familar with the Korg 707
Well the only way to learn FM is to dive head on and read a lot

If you use a software editor it's much easier and faster to do FM stuff
Old 24th May 2011 | Show parent
  #30
Registered User
 
1 Review written
🎧 10 years
You have any experience with an FB-01 ?? basically the same I hear..
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