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Eventide H7600?
Old 15th March 2010 | Show parent
  #31
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🎧 15 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by LinearAggression ➡️
completely blown away by my eclipse. haven't gotten very deep into it yet.

i definitely intend to purchase a more powerful eventide product in the future. if the eclipse sounds this amazing i know i would love a more easily editable one with more channels and power.
I am in the same situation as yours. Eventide is just too good and no plugins are able to give me that eventide vibe, not even the Soundtoys.
Old 17th August 2010 | Show parent
  #32
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Captain Proton ➡️
I use my H8000FW as my main sound card, the convertors are just stunning. No need for high end Apogee with these converters.

Just open up the H8000FW and you can see the siize of the A/d d/a pcb with all the stuff that goes on it...it's huge with quality components.

And the sound......ahh the sound.

By the way the FX are pretty damn good as well he he heh

Goes well with a higher end Lexicon, they wer made to be on the same Aux buss.
can you use the analouge inputs as the same time as using it as a effect processor for your allready recorded stuff in you DAW??
kind of importent if used as the only soundcard..
peace!
Old 17th August 2010 | Show parent
  #33
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🎧 10 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by midihooker ➡️
can you use the analouge inputs as the same time as using it as a effect processor for your allready recorded stuff in you DAW??
kind of importent if used as the only soundcard..
peace!
I am not sure I understand the question well, but you can send audio from your computer (through Firewire) have it processed and at the same time you can do AD/DA conversion.

Just keep in mind that each of the DSPs handles 8 inputs and 8 outputs. You choose what goes where. You can for instance, have 4 channels of AD/DA and 4 channels through Firewire.

If you download the Routing app, from Eventide's site, you will be able to see how crazy this machine is.
Old 6th December 2010 | Show parent
  #34
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I am going into a major studio to record an album with my partner and i know the studio has either an 8000 or a 7600... i saw pictures but i could not decipher which exactly.

But either is fine, all i need to know is if someone can please tell me if either the 7600 or 8000 can be setup for being able to morph between variatiopns of sounds? Smoothly transitioning even at rapid transitions - from one set of parameters set at one rhythm and effect, and smoothly to another set of parameters set at another similar effect but at a different rhythm?

or if not, then would the midi switching on a midi foor pedal between rhythmical variations of presets be smooth? Or is there a way to morph between the variations smoothly and in a transition phase similar to NI Kore 2's 8 morphable parameter spots on its kontroller and interface? because i can easily maintain a rhythmical flow with that and the effects transitions between rhytmic variations is smooth and always stays on time.
Old 6th December 2010 | Show parent
  #35
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🎧 10 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by AcousticsWizard ➡️
I am going into a major studio to record an album with my partner and i know the studio has either an 8000 or a 7600... i saw pictures but i could not decipher which exactly.

But either is fine, all i need to know is if someone can please tell me if either the 7600 or 8000 can be setup for being able to morph between variatiopns of sounds? Smoothly transitioning even at rapid transitions - from one set of parameters set at one rhythm and effect, and smoothly to another set of parameters set at another similar effect but at a different rhythm?

or if not, then would the midi switching on a midi foor pedal between rhythmical variations of presets be smooth? Or is there a way to morph between the variations smoothly and in a transition phase similar to NI Kore 2's 8 morphable parameter spots on its kontroller and interface? because i can easily maintain a rhythmical flow with that and the effects transitions between rhytmic variations is smooth and always stays on time.
Hi,

the TC Electronic M-3000 has a "Morph" mode, where you select two effects and a transition time between them. If I understand properly, you want an effect A with a certain parameter set and then effect A with a different parameter set, right? If that is the case, keep in mind that the transition will not take place unless effect A has ended and the transition time has ended, too. Which is to say that you have to be very careful with timing, either live or sequenced. If the timing is all over the place, then you can expect chaos.

The H8000-FW can be programmed to do what you want. Provided that the algorithm is not very DSP consuming, you can have say two copies of the same effect into a patch. Then you can roll up your sleeves and do some programming. What comes to mind here is either MIDI or audio triggers with adjustable threshold and/or a crossfade module so that you can have smooth transitions between the two effects. You can also use input switches or output switches for more crazy combinations.stike
Old 18th December 2010 | Show parent
  #36
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the 8000 does not have a step sequencer or any sort of stepper or pattern sequencer as a modulation source. 5 grand is alot of money for no pattern stepper as a mod source. What a joke.
Old 18th December 2010 | Show parent
  #37
t_d
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🎧 15 years
i first bought an H3000 D/SE and became totally addicted to the eventide sound and the way the machines work/interface. i then added an Eclipse... which i loved, but craved more, so i sold it and picked up an H7600.

the H3000, as many have said, has a certain magic to it that will ensure it stays with me next to the 7600.. the two are quite different. also, i don't know if it's just my 7600, but the outputs on the H3000 are so much louder/better... the thing is really big.. the 7600 for some reason needs a lot of cranking up.

i've got VsigX, programming environment, running on my Mac... boy is that deep (ie: confusing) but to make simple edits, or combine patches together it works really well...

i've barely scratched the surface of the 7600 though. insane amount of algos and fx in there.

you'll be happy with ANY eventide box. they all sort of work in the same way... so once you've learned one you kind of know them all...

but, beware... eventide = addiction.
Old 18th December 2010 | Show parent
  #38
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🎧 15 years
3000 se

I agree that the 3000 SE (and D/SE)does have a unique and delicious sound. I also have an Orville and have used an Eclipse regularly. I also use the TDM plugins.
The new Eventides sound stellar, high end and modern.
I still would never get rid of the 3000 though..it has a somewhat "thicker" sound to it and gets used more for "lead" fx.. ie a delay you WANT to hear.
Most of the time it gets left on Bandpass Delay to be honest, which doesn't compare on the newer units (including ironically the Bandpass Delay Eventide TDM!)
If you are discovering the delights of Eventide units you really owe it to yourself to check out the early 3000 units (especially the SE) ..awesome thumbsup

BTW if you want to hear the sound of many layered early Eventides on a recording, try and find 1992/1993 Orb stuff..especially F.F.W.D. project they did with Fripp.. I think they used 10 3000's and a 4000 on that record!

YouTube - FFWD-Lucky Saddle The Orb Robert Fripp King Crimson
Old 18th December 2010 | Show parent
  #39
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AcousticsWizard ➡️
the 8000 does not have a step sequencer or any sort of stepper or pattern sequencer as a modulation source. 5 grand is alot of money for no pattern stepper as a mod source. What a joke.
Wrong:


Mod Signal Sequencer seq

The sequencer module is used to create a repetitive sequence of "mod" signal output values. This is very useful in creating a pitch arpeggiator with a pitch shifter.

The sequencer functions like a table lookup. A specified number of values are stored in memory, and depending on the value of the audio input signal, the corresponding value is sent to the output. To create a sequencer, a ramp waveform from an LFO drives the input of the sequencer, producing a consistent pattern of output values. (On the LFO, a ramp is a triangle with 100% duty cycle)

Specifiers:

n_steps

Controls how many entries there are in the sequencer table. Range 2 to 50.

Mod inputs:

in

This input controls which sequencer table entry is sent to the output. A value of 0 will cause the first entry to be output and a value of full scale will cause the last to be output. The remaining values will be output at evenly spaced thresholds between zero and full scale.

Mod outputs:

out

The sequencer output. This is at the "mod" rate of 1/4 the audio sample rate.

Control inputs:

fullscale

This control is used to scale the table entries so that more meaningful numbers may be used. The value entered here will control what table entry value will produce a fullscale output. For example, if this is set to 100, a table entry of 100 will produce a fullscale value at the sequencer output. A table entry of 50 would produce an output of 1/2 fullscale, etc.

Typically this number would be set to a value that makes sense for the modules that are being modulated by the sequencer output. For example, if you were modulating a pitch shifter, this parameter would be set to 1200 (for 1200 cents), and the pitch shifters modamount would be set to 1200 cents. With these settings, entries in the sequencer table correspond exactly to pitch values in "cents".

Range: -32768.0 to 32767.9.

glide

This control sets a time constant for the output of the sequencer. The sequencer output glides from value to value in the amount of time specified here. This is useful to smooth out transitions between values, or to create special effects, like portamento on a pitch shifter.

Range: 0 to 100 seconds.

step_value1 step_value2 ... step_valueN

These values are the sequencer entries that will be output. There is control input for each entry (as given by n_steps). Range: -fullscale to fullscale.

Userobjects:

obj

Menupage of control inputs not connected to control signals. (collection)

Order:

SEQUENCER modulename n_steps in fullscale glide step_value1 step_value2 ... step_valueN
Old 18th December 2010 | Show parent
  #40
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🎧 10 years
Looks like some clarification is needed here:

-an Orville is 8x more powerful than any DSP4000/4500 unit.
-A 7000/7500 is 4x more powerful than DSP4000/4500 series.
-2x7500 are NOT the same as an Orville! Because there are quad I/O presets in Orville that are not available in the 7xxx series. So an Orville is the same as a 7000+a 7500+ some dedicated quad and multichannel stuff.
-the flagship units (Orville/H8000) have better converters

so....

hunt for used Orvilles... and consider yourself very lucky if you stumble in a 7500/H8000.
Orville can also be upgraded to H8000...that's a very good point to always consider. You can't do the same with DSP-units or H7600.

The considerations about reverb quality make not much sense.

I






Quote:
Originally Posted by clusterchord ➡️
DSP4000 < DSP7000

DSP7000 + sampling + broadcast presets = DSP7500 = DSP4000B+ (re-named to appeal to broadcast/post crowd that was used to the 4000 name, being a staple so long, but indeed it's a 7500, not a 4000 or 4000B)

DSP7500 x 2 = Orville


scott, unless you're opting for the $4k+ machines i.e. 7600/8000, i think your best buy today is DSP7000 for stereo multi fx, or Orville if you want two independent stereo multi fx. former can be found for just under $2k, latter in 2.2 - 2.6k range. ad/da conversion of this whole series (7k/Orville), also falls into high end, pristine camp, if not exact same as the next gen i.e. 7600/8000.

Eclipse, by its DSP power is closest to DSP7000, yet smaller, and without the editing/routing flexibility.

i still use Lexicons for vocals, drums, and some synths/lead insturments in general, but Eventide reverb is just made for electronics/soundscapes, bcs it's not just a naked reverb algo, it uses a whole multi fx process making the "reverb" preset sounding so out of this world - pitch/multi-tap/er/filter/eq ... the result is host of alien soundscapes, non linear, worm holes, death stars.. filtered multitap delays.. you name it.. its crazy.



bottom line, if you want perfectly natural sound of uber realistic halls and rooms, don't buy an Eventide. nor a Lexicon. then u should look at tc4000/6000, or Bricasti.
Old 18th December 2010 | Show parent
  #41
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italo de angelis's Avatar
 
🎧 10 years
yeah...

people should really need to look into Vsigfile to understand how much is in there....






Quote:
Originally Posted by OurDarkness ➡️
Wrong:


Mod Signal Sequencer seq

The sequencer module is used to create a repetitive sequence of "mod" signal output values. This is very useful in creating a pitch arpeggiator with a pitch shifter.

The sequencer functions like a table lookup. A specified number of values are stored in memory, and depending on the value of the audio input signal, the corresponding value is sent to the output. To create a sequencer, a ramp waveform from an LFO drives the input of the sequencer, producing a consistent pattern of output values. (On the LFO, a ramp is a triangle with 100% duty cycle)

Specifiers:

n_steps

Controls how many entries there are in the sequencer table. Range 2 to 50.

Mod inputs:

in

This input controls which sequencer table entry is sent to the output. A value of 0 will cause the first entry to be output and a value of full scale will cause the last to be output. The remaining values will be output at evenly spaced thresholds between zero and full scale.

Mod outputs:

out

The sequencer output. This is at the "mod" rate of 1/4 the audio sample rate.

Control inputs:

fullscale

This control is used to scale the table entries so that more meaningful numbers may be used. The value entered here will control what table entry value will produce a fullscale output. For example, if this is set to 100, a table entry of 100 will produce a fullscale value at the sequencer output. A table entry of 50 would produce an output of 1/2 fullscale, etc.

Typically this number would be set to a value that makes sense for the modules that are being modulated by the sequencer output. For example, if you were modulating a pitch shifter, this parameter would be set to 1200 (for 1200 cents), and the pitch shifters modamount would be set to 1200 cents. With these settings, entries in the sequencer table correspond exactly to pitch values in "cents".

Range: -32768.0 to 32767.9.

glide

This control sets a time constant for the output of the sequencer. The sequencer output glides from value to value in the amount of time specified here. This is useful to smooth out transitions between values, or to create special effects, like portamento on a pitch shifter.

Range: 0 to 100 seconds.

step_value1 step_value2 ... step_valueN

These values are the sequencer entries that will be output. There is control input for each entry (as given by n_steps). Range: -fullscale to fullscale.

Userobjects:

obj

Menupage of control inputs not connected to control signals. (collection)

Order:

SEQUENCER modulename n_steps in fullscale glide step_value1 step_value2 ... step_valueN
Old 18th December 2010 | Show parent
  #42
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🎧 15 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by italo de angelis ➡️
so....

hunt for used Orvilles... and consider yourself very lucky if you stumble in a 7500/H8000.
Orville can also be upgraded to H8000...that's a very good point to always consider. You can't do the same with DSP-units or H7600.
so.... if anyones looking for an Orville, I have one to sell

/Spam
Old 28th January 2011 | Show parent
  #43
Gear Addict
 
🎧 15 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by OurDarkness ➡️
Wrong:


Mod Signal Sequencer seq

The sequencer module is used to create a repetitive sequence of "mod" signal output values. This is very useful in creating a pitch arpeggiator with a pitch shifter.

The sequencer functions like a table lookup. A specified number of values are stored in memory, and depending on the value of the audio input signal, the corresponding value is sent to the output. To create a sequencer, a ramp waveform from an LFO drives the input of the sequencer, producing a consistent pattern of output values. (On the LFO, a ramp is a triangle with 100% duty cycle)

Specifiers:

n_steps

Controls how many entries there are in the sequencer table. Range 2 to 50.

Mod inputs:

in

This input controls which sequencer table entry is sent to the output. A value of 0 will cause the first entry to be output and a value of full scale will cause the last to be output. The remaining values will be output at evenly spaced thresholds between zero and full scale.

Mod outputs:

out

The sequencer output. This is at the "mod" rate of 1/4 the audio sample rate.

Control inputs:

fullscale

This control is used to scale the table entries so that more meaningful numbers may be used. The value entered here will control what table entry value will produce a fullscale output. For example, if this is set to 100, a table entry of 100 will produce a fullscale value at the sequencer output. A table entry of 50 would produce an output of 1/2 fullscale, etc.

Typically this number would be set to a value that makes sense for the modules that are being modulated by the sequencer output. For example, if you were modulating a pitch shifter, this parameter would be set to 1200 (for 1200 cents), and the pitch shifters modamount would be set to 1200 cents. With these settings, entries in the sequencer table correspond exactly to pitch values in "cents".

Range: -32768.0 to 32767.9.

glide

This control sets a time constant for the output of the sequencer. The sequencer output glides from value to value in the amount of time specified here. This is useful to smooth out transitions between values, or to create special effects, like portamento on a pitch shifter.

Range: 0 to 100 seconds.

step_value1 step_value2 ... step_valueN

These values are the sequencer entries that will be output. There is control input for each entry (as given by n_steps). Range: -fullscale to fullscale.

Userobjects:

obj

Menupage of control inputs not connected to control signals. (collection)

Order:

SEQUENCER modulename n_steps in fullscale glide step_value1 step_value2 ... step_valueN
Quote:
Originally Posted by italo de angelis ➡️
yeah...

people should really need to look into Vsigfile to understand how much is in there....


Oh, ok, can any please tell me if this sequencer is available without getting into the complex VSIG editing program? Can I edit such parameters straight from the buttons of an 8000 or 7600? I cannot get into stuff like Vsig at the moment.

And In addition, can you please tell me if the 7600 has something similar to that TC electronic sort of surround effect done in 2 channel? Like a pseudo sort of simulated surround.
Old 28th January 2011 | Show parent
  #44
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🎧 10 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by AcousticsWizard ➡️
Oh, ok, can any please tell me if this sequencer is available without getting into the complex VSIG editing program?
A module becomes "available" for editing when:

a. it's already in the algorithm and its parameters appear on the LCD
b. you either use VSig from a PC or
c. insert it in the algorithm directly from the H8000-FW (not very user friendly)

Quote:
Originally Posted by AcousticsWizard ➡️
Can I edit such parameters straight from the buttons of an 8000 or 7600?
Yes.

Quote:
Originally Posted by AcousticsWizard ➡️
And In addition, can you please tell me if the 7600 has something similar to that TC electronic sort of surround effect done in 2 channel? Like a pseudo sort of simulated surround.
Maybe a fellow slut who has an H7600 can answer this.
Old 28th January 2011 | Show parent
  #45
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🎧 15 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by OurDarkness ➡️
A module becomes "available" for editing when:

a. it's already in the algorithm and its parameters appear on the LCD
b. you either use VSig from a PC or
c. insert it in the algorithm directly from the H8000-FW (not very user friendly)
Ok I am not sure how to say this then. Is the block available to insert as modulation? If not I need to hire someone to program me such a block and replace alot of the modulation sources with the sequencer - which you appear to be describing as something which must be modified at the programming level, and not from the front panel in a simple way.
Old 28th January 2011 | Show parent
  #46
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oldgearguy's Avatar
 
🎧 15 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by italo de angelis ➡️
Looks like some clarification is needed here:

-an Orville is 8x more powerful than any DSP4000/4500 unit.
-A 7000/7500 is 4x more powerful than DSP4000/4500 series.
-2x7500 are NOT the same as an Orville! Because there are quad I/O presets in Orville that are not available in the 7xxx series. So an Orville is the same as a 7000+a 7500+ some dedicated quad and multichannel stuff.
-the flagship units (Orville/H8000) have better converters

so....

hunt for used Orvilles... and consider yourself very lucky if you stumble in a 7500/H8000.
Orville can also be upgraded to H8000...that's a very good point to always consider. You can't do the same with DSP-units or H7600.

The considerations about reverb quality make not much sense.

I
Since the information isn't very obvious on the Eventide site -- how much does it cost to upgrade an Orville to an H8000?

I got some vague information that it depends on the Orville serial number - not sure if that is accurate or not.

I'm not looking for an exact cost, just some general range to see if it makes sense to buy an Orville and get it upgraded or just buy an H8000FW.

thanks
Old 28th January 2011 | Show parent
  #47
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OurDarkness's Avatar
 
🎧 10 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by AcousticsWizard ➡️
Ok I am not sure how to say this then. Is the block available to insert as modulation? If not I need to hire someone to program me such a block and replace alot of the modulation sources with the sequencer - which you appear to be describing as something which must be modified at the programming level, and not from the front panel in a simple way.
Anything can be inserted as modulation, the modulation sequencer being no exception. However, after you insert it into the algorithm (either you or someone else via a PC or from the Eventide) there needs to be some editing, make connections, adjust ranges of values and so on. This is probably what you want to avoid, but there is no simple way around it. Alternatively you can find a preset which already includes the mod sequencer and start adjusting the parameters directly from the front panel, but that defeats the purpose of having such a powerful machine. Moreover, you might find a mod sequencer in certain presets but you might not like their structure so that means that, at some point, some editing needs to be done.

I understand that messing around with VSig might not be everyone's cup of tea. The time you might invest is a little too much, but on the other hand you end up with a customized preset that does exactly what you want it to do instead of having to live with a certain FX structure. You might want to have pong pong delays synced to external tempo and extracting the beat information, feed it to a mod sequencer, and modulate the filter's cutoff or whatever. It can be done, it just takes some time and you don't have to start from scratch every time.
Old 28th January 2011 | Show parent
  #48
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🎧 15 years
Ok, well i'll try, but if I feel its not my cup of tea, then definetly need to hire someone to program a "block". How ever that is done. But I know for a fact this is what i need because the eclipse was not flexible enough for me. 2 months ago i traded that eclipse in towards a rosetta 200, but the rosetta is too vintage sounding.

So back went the rosetta, and luckily there was only a 7% restocking fee... but the opriginal intent today was i was gonna trade in the rosetta towards an apogee symphony but instead decided to save the money and grab an api a2d and use that as a converter. this was i can allocate some funds towards an eventide 7600.

that is ... if the A2d converters have some different color i am looking for than the rosetta. the techs were hyping up the api big time for its clocking and conversion and dark pre even.
Old 28th January 2011 | Show parent
  #49
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OurDarkness's Avatar
 
🎧 10 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by AcousticsWizard ➡️
Ok, well i'll try, but if I feel its not my cup of tea, then definetly need to hire someone to program a "block". How ever that is done. But I know for a fact this is what i need because the eclipse was not flexible enough for me. 2 months ago i traded that eclipse in towards a rosetta 200, but the rosetta is too vintage sounding.

So back went the rosetta, and luckily there was only a 7% restocking fee... but the opriginal intent today was i was gonna trade in the rosetta towards an apogee symphony but instead decided to save the money and grab an api a2d and use that as a converter. this was i can allocate some funds towards an eventide 7600.

that is ... if the A2d converters have some different color i am looking for than the rosetta. the techs were hyping up the api big time for its clocking and conversion and dark pre even.
When you get the Api A2D do tell how you like it. Have you compared it to the Neve 1073 DPD? similar prices or less, I would like to spend some money on one of these.
Old 29th January 2011 | Show parent
  #50
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🎧 15 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by OurDarkness ➡️
Anything can be inserted as modulation, the modulation sequencer being no exception. However, after you insert it into the algorithm (either you or someone else via a PC or from the Eventide) there needs to be some editing, make connections, adjust ranges of values and so on. This is probably what you want to avoid, but there is no simple way around it.
No I dont mind. I just want to be clear on the different blocks of FX - and different modulators. Because the way this is set up in my axe-fx is very simple - the problem is that the sequencer is very limited. So in the modulator section of the repository, can I at least edit the algorithm in some sort of simplistic way after reading the manual without getting into programming language?

WHat do you mean by connections? If you are talking reaktor-like connections, thats really too technical and programming-related for me.


Quote:
Alternatively you can find a preset which already includes the mod sequencer and start adjusting the parameters directly from the front panel, but that defeats the purpose of having such a powerful machine. Moreover, you might find a mod sequencer in certain presets but you might not like their structure so that means that, at some point, some editing needs to be done.
First of all, I heard if one buys it for the presets only its more than worth the cost and STILL a big steal.

What about the mod sequencer alone - why can this not be accessed from the repository. Why do I need an effect open that has it only?

Something does not seem intuitive here. It was also very counter intuitive with my eclipse - but the counterintuitive-ness was very simplified and therefore not too flexible at all. The Axe FX is much more simple as an FX unit, but the only problem is I want that eventide color. And I am not much of a creative effects-programmer - i want to hire somebody for this job - both with my axe-fx and with my eventide i will get.


Quote:
I understand that messing around with VSig might not be everyone's cup of tea. The time you might invest is a little too much, but on the other hand you end up with a customized preset that does exactly what you want it to do instead of having to live with a certain FX structure.
Let me re-phrase this. I am ok with basic programming, but if you or eventide is suggesting I might want to consider to get into "re-engineering" within the unit, this would be highly unfair. But at the same time, there must be a maintained flexibiliy for the end user in providing editing and tweaking without re-engineering blocks, and routing flexibility still needs to be there also without those reverse engineering and re-engineering requirements. I just want to replace some of the modulation sources with a performance the sequencer (if you are confirming this is available as a source or some sort of source block of mod).

Just look at the Axe-FX grid in the free downloadable Axe-Edit. Its simple - a repository of all the effects blocks available as a choice for each block - any block can be routed in almost any series, parallel, or a sort of hybird of those two, and finally on the left is a section of all the modulators (of which the step sequencer sucks). But other than that crappy step sequencer - this is very ideal. But is the Eventide H series units not like this?

Quote:
You might want to have pong pong delays synced to external tempo and extracting the beat information, feed it to a mod sequencer, and modulate the filter's cutoff or whatever.
I see no reason why these options should not be available without engineering the programming through Vsig.

Quote:
It can be done, it just takes some time and you don't have to start from scratch every time.
Well now I can start to understand why it would be a nightmare to program such options from scratch. Not the case on the Axe FX. Its just too bad its step sequencer blows. Someone needs to re-program that, but not the end-user. And same thing with the stepper - if any - in the eventide - if not there already.
Old 29th January 2011 | Show parent
  #51
Gear Maniac
 
2 Reviews written
🎧 15 years
@ All you Eventide loving slutz:

I am most intrigued ... Could you please elaborate on what areas does the the 7xxx and 8xxx series outshine de facto standard plugins that most of us are using.

I would be mostly interested in the possible granular applications and harmonizing ... Perhaps less so concerning the reverbs.

Thank you kindly,
Px
Old 29th January 2011 | Show parent
  #52
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aeonlux's Avatar
 
🎧 10 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by AcousticsWizard ➡️
Just look at the Axe-FX grid in the free downloadable Axe-Edit. Its simple - a repository of all the effects blocks available as a choice for each block - any block can be routed in almost any series, parallel, or a sort of hybird of those two, and finally on the left is a section of all the modulators (of which the step sequencer sucks). But other than that crappy step sequencer - this is very ideal. But is the Eventide H series units not like this?
That grid is like the t.c. FireworX. The Eventide units allow you to go much deeper in terms of low-level design.

You can achieve a higher-level approach by re-using what has already been made, but if you want to get deep and really create the (modules) you want, you can.


cheers,
Ian
Old 29th January 2011 | Show parent
  #53
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🎧 10 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by AcousticsWizard ➡️
No I dont mind. I just want to be clear on the different blocks of FX - and different modulators. Because the way this is set up in my axe-fx is very simple - the problem is that the sequencer is very limited. So in the modulator section of the repository, can I at least edit the algorithm in some sort of simplistic way after reading the manual without getting into programming language?
To edit the algorithm you need to either open it in VSig or directly by using the H8000-FW's LCD. Once you are into Edit mode, all of the modules become available, you choose which ones you want in your FX structure. There is no "simplistic" way, or to put it differently and more correctly: it can be as simple or as complex as you want. A module (any module) might have 100 parameters. You don't have to adjust everything and you certainly don't need to see anything from the front panel. So, after you insert a Mod Sequencer you might want 2-3 parameters to adjust, so you need to make those appear in the H8000-FW. This is done with VSig. There is no way to tackle all this stuff without at some point taking a look at the Modules' Reference.

Quote:
Originally Posted by AcousticsWizard ➡️
WHat do you mean by connections? If you are talking reaktor-like connections, thats really too technical and programming-related for me.
Yes, these are Reakto-like connections. Something modulating something else, by means of a virtual cable.

Quote:
Originally Posted by AcousticsWizard ➡️
First of all, I heard if one buys it for the presets only its more than worth the cost and STILL a big steal.
Of course.

Quote:
Originally Posted by AcousticsWizard ➡️
What about the mod sequencer alone - why can this not be accessed from the repository. Why do I need an effect open that has it only?
Because a Mod Sequencer module doesn't have to be present in all algorithms. Why would I want to have a Mod Sequencer in a simple reverb, for instance? Eventide cannot possible know what you may want in an FX structure! That's why the provided 200+ different modules, so that you can choose which ones you want, in case they are not present in the original algorithm.

Quote:
Originally Posted by AcousticsWizard ➡️
Something does not seem intuitive here. It was also very counter intuitive with my eclipse - but the counterintuitive-ness was very simplified and therefore not too flexible at all. The Axe FX is much more simple as an FX unit, but the only problem is I want that eventide color. And I am not much of a creative effects-programmer - i want to hire somebody for this job - both with my axe-fx and with my eventide i will get.
I disagree. Like I said earlier, Eventide can not possibly know what you *might* want in an FX structure. They have something like 1800 different presets so as to cover a wide variety of musical preferences/tastes/genres/applications, but they can't cover all. If you want a Mod Sequencer in a 5.1 reverb, you are unlikely to find one there waiting for you. Just insert it and tell it what to do.

Quote:
Originally Posted by AcousticsWizard ➡️
Let me re-phrase this. I am ok with basic programming, but if you or eventide is suggesting I might want to consider to get into "re-engineering" within the unit, this would be highly unfair. But at the same time, there must be a maintained flexibiliy for the end user in providing editing and tweaking without re-engineering blocks, and routing flexibility still needs to be there also without those reverse engineering and re-engineering requirements. I just want to replace some of the modulation sources with a performance the sequencer (if you are confirming this is available as a source or some sort of source block of mod).
You don't have to re-engineer anything. If I wanted to replace an LFO already present in the algorithm, with a Mod sequencer, it would take me 10-15 minutes, depending on patch complexity. Provided I understand what the algorithm does, it would take me 20 seconds to do the swap, something like 2 minutes (max) to do the connections, 4 minutes to make the new information available directly to the LCD and 5-6 minutes to do the tweaking (and going backwards and forwards uploading/downloading the algorithm from/to the Eventide). Tweaks can be as easy as inserting a dry/wet balance, which can be done in 2 minutes max, or as difficult as designing new and difficult patches from scratch.

Quote:
Originally Posted by AcousticsWizard ➡️
Just look at the Axe-FX grid in the free downloadable Axe-Edit. Its simple - a repository of all the effects blocks available as a choice for each block - any block can be routed in almost any series, parallel, or a sort of hybird of those two, and finally on the left is a section of all the modulators (of which the step sequencer sucks). But other than that crappy step sequencer - this is very ideal. But is the Eventide H series units not like this?
VSig is much more powerful and all the effect blocks (which in VSig are called modules) are available in all patches (except where there are DSP limitations). You just insert them.

Quote:
Originally Posted by AcousticsWizard ➡️
I see no reason why these options should not be available without engineering the programming through Vsig.
The reason is DSP. You can't just expect to have 200+ modules in all patches doing there, doing nothing and wasting DSP resources. It's like expecting a computer to boot all its application on startup, it makes no sense and it would probably crash.
Old 29th January 2011 | Show parent
  #54
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OurDarkness's Avatar
 
🎧 10 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by Parametex ➡️
@ All you Eventide loving slutz:

I am most intrigued ... Could you please elaborate on what areas does the the 7xxx and 8xxx series outshine de facto standard plugins that most of us are using.

I would be mostly interested in the possible granular applications and harmonizing ... Perhaps less so concerning the reverbs.

Thank you kindly,
Px
Areas? In all areas.

Harmonizing is second to none with Eventides. In fact I think the word "Harmonizer" is a trademark for Eventide.

Granular applications, such as splicing and dicing audio can be done with the Sampler module and some programming.
Old 30th January 2011 | Show parent
  #55
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🎧 15 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by OurDarkness ➡️
To edit the algorithm you need to either open it in VSig or directly by using the H8000-FW's LCD. Once you are into Edit mode, all of the modules become available, you choose which ones you want in your FX structure. There is no "simplistic" way, or to put it differently and more correctly: it can be as simple or as complex as you want. A module (any module) might have 100 parameters. You don't have to adjust everything and you certainly don't need to see anything from the front panel. So, after you insert a Mod Sequencer you might want 2-3 parameters to adjust, so you need to make those appear in the H8000-FW. This is done with VSig. There is no way to tackle all this stuff without at some point taking a look at the Modules' Reference.
Thats fine but as long as it can be saved as a module in the unit for re-usage elsewhere.

Quote:
Because a Mod Sequencer module doesn't have to be present in all algorithms. Why would I want to have a Mod Sequencer in a simple reverb, for instance?
Thats fine, this is not what I was expecting. I just want to clarify there is no current module available for this application? And it must be created and programmed from scratch or another totally re-programmed right? Not available as of yet for selection options from the module repository unless I make it myself?

Quote:
Eventide cannot possible know what you may want in an FX structure! That's why the provided 200+ different modules, so that you can choose which ones you want, in case they are not present in the original algorithm.
This is great, as long as recall is easy... regardless of who programmed it. Even if I hire somebody to.

Quote:
I disagree. Like I said earlier, Eventide can not possibly know what you *might* want in an FX structure. They have something like 1800 different presets so as to cover a wide variety of musical preferences/tastes/genres/applications, but they can't cover all. If you want a Mod Sequencer in a 5.1 reverb, you are unlikely to find one there waiting for you. Just insert it and tell it what to do.
Inserting it and telling it what to modulate is fine.... but its an algorithm you are making me understand does not exist currently in a unit io would buy unless programmed from scratch or unless another module as you have shared - is re-programmed in such a way as to behave like the sequencer - this is what I mean by re-programming - to me thats reverse and re-engineering - attaching the source to the destination is not exactly programming/engineeiring, but it seems you are suggesting a new program must be engineered - like in reaktor if a certain ensemble does not exist - like for instance a stepper/performer similar to that in NI massive - but to be routable to any CC in your DAW.... since none existed, I hired someone to program it for me, and i could insert it and assign its targets at will after the fact. I assume I have to go through the same thing with the 7600.

Or would you suggest an 8000 instead?

You mention:

Quote:
You don't have to re-engineer anything. If I wanted to replace an LFO already present in the algorithm, with a Mod sequencer, it would take me 10-15 minutes, depending on patch complexity. Provided I understand what the algorithm does, it would take me 20 seconds to do the swap, something like 2 minutes (max) to do the connections, 4 minutes to........ etc...
But then you mention:

Quote:
VSig is much more powerful and all the effect blocks (which in VSig are called modules) are available in all patches (except where there are DSP limitations). You just insert them.
In the previous example they seem to have to be re-created by changing other modules. I dont mind tweaking to death after the fact, but such modules do nto seem to be available in the repository unless I program them from scratch or re-program another one to essentially be a different module with a different function. This requires intense programming expertise and an understanding of either math or logical functions - and their instruction sending and routing (as opposed to just routing of say a modulation parameter which is all the end user should be expected to make - you see this is why i think it is unacceptable that there is no module of the one I mentioned currently without re-engineering. And I really don't know if I am ready for such things.

Please understand where I feel a need to draw a the line in the technical san as a musician. Learning my units, learning modulation, learning my DAW/pro tools/ other software, etc... learning how to use all this simply where I draw that line as an artist. To ask me to program a sequencer module that does nbot exist is like asking me to join team Avid to make pro tools behave in a more customizable way with regards to MIDI not color coding... this is a request for Avid Technical staff... not the end user.... because this is not my area of expertise. So In essence, if I am convinced to buy an eventide H series, I must find a programmer.

Quote:
The reason is DSP. You can't just expect to have 200+ modules in all patches doing there, doing nothing and wasting DSP resources. It's like expecting a computer to boot all its application on startup, it makes no sense and it would probably crash.
But with a computer you select which programs to run from its repository. You seem to indicate that this program/module CAN be available from the repository only if somebody re-programs the actual modular program. This to me is re-engineering.

But if I buy the unit, what I am saying is that I dont want to learn a complex programming process merely because i believe its only missing one single mod source, since I would not be getting into programming anything esle.

And perhaps you can maybe post a link to some very crazy sample audio effects these units can do because I cant find any other than some simple choruses and crystalizing type patches on the eventide website... but perhaps you can shed light on whether the unit can make very twisted sounding stuff reminiscent of those NI Kore sound packs called Deep Reconstructions and Deep transformations. Because the main issue i am running into is that these Kore FX - when processing my leads on guitar, are only available on my DAW for the album - but for live (since I do not believe in relying on computers for live events ever, for live would I only have an Axe FX and theoretically (if I am convinced to buy) a 7600 or 8000 for electric guitar (at times in stereo). . So I need to be able to recreate (and switch in from a MIDI pedal) alot of those INSANE effects in the eventide, hopefully it contains enough of the same fx as used in the Kore FX packs which make use of the Komplete engine. And if not - then at least just switch to other cool enough presets from a MIDI pedal. But I need to make sure there is a grid to route complex effects running on all sorts of different parallel paths (at least 4 parallel pathways, and pathways within pathways). .

Again, also prefer using an eventide on a professional album for its nice synthetic radioactive color, rather than relying on thin sounding Native instruments effects... although they are cool sounding and I might not have a choice. Its so simple to use them.. and morph between them in rhythmical ways with the Kore 2 controller.

Because the Axe is extremely lacking in terms of creative FX. I am just using it for amp modeling and simple chorus. But the flanger also blows. Are the reverbs any good on these H-series?

And finally, would you suggest a seperate Midi pedal for the Axe FX and a seperate one for the Eventide? Because i really don't know about all this MIDI trhu stuff, I prefer each unit has its own pedal - or is this just unnecessary paranoia and I should use 1 pedal? I currently own a rocktron All Access Touring model LTD midi controller.

Thanks
Old 30th January 2011 | Show parent
  #56
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🎧 15 years
In addition, can something like a morph-able MIDI controller be used with the Eventide? Like say a set of 4 expression pedals and one expression pedal morphing to a target pre-programmed snapshot of a certain state of the other 4 expression pedals ? - But especially morphable - morphing every one of them gradually? (Like the Kore 2 controller) with its group morphing snapshots and one dial can morph like 7 other dials... its hard to explain.. I just do it and dont think about it).

And if I can make the eventide do crazy effects like Kore packs, then can I make it be assignable to a set of assignable midi on/off buttons to change around a whole group of values in a preset instantly so I can tap them in rather than have to adjust the value of 4 different expression pedals or even not have to morph all pedals with one (if possible on the evendite)... because sometimes one wished to bring in such parameters gradually/ And again - any one of those midi switches as snapshots to instantly go to a pre-defined group state of all the scaling of the 4 expressioned CCs... but without having to move all the expression CCS?

But the other problem is I want to make sure that bringing in a preset is intelligent with the clock of the song - but since I am against bringing computers to gigs... then if I can program one preset to be brought in at the start of the sequence... on beat one of the bar when i press the button - (also exactl when the tap light should restart) and 2) the option to click in the preset at beat 4 of another measure intelligently so that the unit also knows to begin its own "effecting" at that beat and restart at bar one).... automatically. Hard to explain. But the issue here is live usage... because the Axe FX simply is under development and there is currently no intelligent TAP position activator relative to the instant MIDI commands are send... nevermind the fact that you cant even restart the clock without re-tapping....... at least not that I am aware. But I really need all these options to be possible on any effects unit i purchase.

(Simply because I do not have 4 feet... and in fact I only have one foot available when standing with a guitar.) And also because Live I do not have 4 takes to automate.... only one take).

(Again, I am totally against bringing computers to gigs... even for the pre-recorded part of the show, I use a rackmounted mp3 player... no body will ever convince me to use abelton live since I have no reason to trust a single PC or Mac computer live - not a single computer on this planet is to be trusted for anything live... other than the dedicated hardware DSP computers like the rack mounted units I investigate now such as the Axe and Eventides and rack mounted mp3 player with jogging/marking - built specifically for that they are supposed to do. So I just thought I would throw this in).

And finally... is the eventides better than the TC electronic multi effects processors?

This is absolutely all the questions I have before i make my final purchase decision.

I will be testing the converter along of the API now vs the converter alone of the Aphex 230 channel strip and will elt you know.

Thanks.
Old 3rd February 2011 | Show parent
  #57
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🎧 15 years
anybody else?
Old 4th February 2011 | Show parent
  #58
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🎧 15 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by oldgearguy ➡️
Since the information isn't very obvious on the Eventide site -- how much does it cost to upgrade an Orville to an H8000?

I got some vague information that it depends on the Orville serial number - not sure if that is accurate or not.

I'm not looking for an exact cost, just some general range to see if it makes sense to buy an Orville and get it upgraded or just buy an H8000FW.

thanks
Is it in poor form to quote your own post?

Anyway, since the info doesn't seem to be out there, here is what I got from Eventide on upgrading an Orville to an H8000FW: (note these prices are current as of January, 2011)

Yes, you can upgrade an Orville to an H8000FW. The price is dependent upon which type of Orville you have:
Type 1: Orville that indicates "DSP 5303, 5303" on the power up sequence cost: $1995
Type 2: Orville that indicates "DSP 2303, 2303" (or combinations of 2303 and 5303) on the power up sequence (requires DSP upgrade) but has the current motherboard (S/PDIF on the lower level) cost: $2495
Type 3: Orville that has the earliest motherboard (S/PDIF on the upper area on the rear of the unit) will require a new motherboard and power supply upgrade. Cost: $2995
Type 4: Orville/R to H8000FW Cost: $2995

This upgrade can only be done at the Eventide facility in the US.
Old 4th February 2011 | Show parent
  #59
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OurDarkness's Avatar
 
🎧 10 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by AcousticsWizard ➡️
Thats fine but as long as it can be saved as a module in the unit for re-usage elsewhere.
It can. You can even save whole structures of modules - these are called supermodules.

Quote:
Originally Posted by AcousticsWizard ➡️
Thats fine, this is not what I was expecting. I just want to clarify there is no current module available for this application? And it must be created and programmed from scratch or another totally re-programmed right? Not available as of yet for selection options from the module repository unless I make it myself?
There IS a module for this application and you don't have to "engineer" it yourself. Have a look here:



I opened a simple patch (LongDelays) and I have modified it by adding a sequencer (from the list on the lower left corner). This is now available to route wherever you want and you can save the algorithm if you like.

Quote:
Originally Posted by AcousticsWizard ➡️
Inserting it and telling it what to modulate is fine.... but its an algorithm you are making me understand does not exist currently in a unit io would buy unless programmed from scratch or unless another module as you have shared - is re-programmed in such a way as to behave like the sequencer - this is what I mean by re-programming - to me thats reverse and re-engineering - attaching the source to the destination is not exactly programming/engineeiring, but it seems you are suggesting a new program must be engineered - like in reaktor if a certain ensemble does not exist - like for instance a stepper/performer similar to that in NI massive - but to be routable to any CC in your DAW.... since none existed, I hired someone to program it for me, and i could insert it and assign its targets at will after the fact. I assume I have to go through the same thing with the 7600.
OK, let's say you want a reverb. You can either:

a. add a reverb module from the list of modules or
b. make a new reverb algorithm from scratch. A reverb is basically a network of multiple delay modules with feedback. Which means that you can start building using even more "basic" modules like delays and mixers. In this case you need to have an in-depth knowledge of how FX actually work and what's the purpose of every module in the algorithm.

With VSig you can do both. Do keep in mind, however, that some patches are very difficult to understand, let alone modify. There exist patches which are plain frightening and it takes time to understand how the modules inter-connect. And I don't mean what the effect does - you can always see this information by opening the dummy Info module which is always present. I am talking about the guts of the algorithm. If you want to modify, even by the simple addition of 1 module, perhaps you will need to do some deep-programming or hire someone to do this for you. Italo de Angelis is a member here, he is an awesome guy, also a guitarist and he has designed a lot of patches for the Eventides. You can always ask him to help you, if you want some very deep programming.

Quote:
Originally Posted by AcousticsWizard ➡️
In the previous example they seem to have to be re-created by changing other modules. I dont mind tweaking to death after the fact, but such modules do nto seem to be available in the repository unless I program them from scratch or re-program another one to essentially be a different module with a different function. This requires intense programming expertise and an understanding of either math or logical functions - and their instruction sending and routing (as opposed to just routing of say a modulation parameter which is all the end user should be expected to make - you see this is why i think it is unacceptable that there is no module of the one I mentioned currently without re-engineering. And I really don't know if I am ready for such things.

Please understand where I feel a need to draw a the line in the technical san as a musician. Learning my units, learning modulation, learning my DAW/pro tools/ other software, etc... learning how to use all this simply where I draw that line as an artist. To ask me to program a sequencer module that does nbot exist is like asking me to join team Avid to make pro tools behave in a more customizable way with regards to MIDI not color coding... this is a request for Avid Technical staff... not the end user.... because this is not my area of expertise. So In essence, if I am convinced to buy an eventide H series, I must find a programmer.
I understand your frustration but as you just saw, in the example above, it takes about 5 seconds to add a new module. After that you need to tell it what to do. Then it's tweaking, tweaking, tweaking. It's most likely that you will always end up adding more than one module. During the process you will find that some parameters from the module you added needs to be directly adjusted from the Eventide. This "uploading" of information is done with the magenta cables. In this way, you can precisely tell the Eventide which parameters you want to adjust. Nothing more, nothing less.

Quote:
Originally Posted by AcousticsWizard ➡️
but perhaps you can shed light on whether the unit can make very twisted sounding stuff reminiscent of those NI Kore sound packs called Deep Reconstructions and Deep transformations.
Will it be enough if I tell you that you can even modulate the contrast of the LCD display?heh

Regarding pedals...

How about calling up a beat detection algorithm, where in one channel you feed it a clock signal (MIDI or audio say from a drummer), the Eventide extracts the tempo information and it sends the data to the other channel where you have your guitar going through delays and the delays are always synced to tempo?

Information from pedals (or other CV things for that matter) can be parsed into the Eventide. Once it's inside you can do anything with it. Something that just came to mind... you can use a pedal like an on/off switch for effects by using logic gates.

I am not sure about using 4 pedals. I know that the H8000FW has 2 inputs for pedals and these can be pedals, switches or, like I said, CV voltages. You can trigger things with these pedals, depending on how each particular algorithm is programmed.

As for Eventide being better than TC Electronic as regards multi-FX... Yes, they are. And not only as regards multi-FX. Top notch converters, awesome effects, amazing routing capabilities, VSig programming for FX, built like a tank, something like 1800+ presets, good preamplifiers. Yes, of course they are better by a looooooooooooooooong way.
Old 13th February 2011 | Show parent
  #60
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🎧 15 years
Ok thanks for your answers. I'll be purchasing soon. I was considering a used DSP series one but that might be going backwards instead of forwards. But this does not look at all as complicated as reaktor... you should see the mathematical and logic functions in that... this looks much easier and is just a matter of being creative IMO from what I see on that screen shot... (or are there deeper modules and celss within cells within modules like reaktor?)

Ok so you found a sequencer? Built in? Or did you make that module? You found it in the menu? Hmmm... thats strange. eventide's forum support seems to be saying one does not exists. LOL.

Here is the main reason for my decision... i had an apogee rosetta but i might as well use that credit towards the eventide if the converters are good enough... but the problem is that I always must use 88.2 sample rate for whatever reason (to match my partner's session), then I can only be going through a 88.2 preset on the eventide... the complex effects only working at 44/48 are unavailable in this sample rate and will not work since i am clocked at 88.2.

So I was thinking in that case, I could maybe go out analog from the 7600 (or 8000 if I get that), and in to the aphex 230 preamp because there is an option to bypass the preamp and go straight to the converters. But then in these cases where I have to use the 44/48 sample rate on the eventide, i would no longer be clocked to it... i hope the clocking on the aphex is good enough. I know the converters on it are good based on crystals and panasonic components... but the question is the clocking.... Aphex told me the clocking will definetly tighten up my crapp m-audio project mix... so i hope the fidelity of the aphex clocking is good enough for the eventide when in 44/48. but most of the time it will be on the eventide recording and clocking at 88.

Again thanks much and I'll be contacting you guys for paid services. I might not have to go to the other guy but if I really want the similar Kore FX matched, then I will contact him.

I notice your final signature is "No Moog, No Party". How do you find the Access Virus? I have one. Do you think it models analog well? People tell me no... but i tell them... it doesn't matter - it has a very nice dark character and a very big sound! I have been frustrated with forums lately where people are trying to tell me Massive from NI is as good as the Virus... I get very angry because how can a $200 synth sound like a $2000 synth with such a signature sound and a very deep 3D fidelity. How do you find moog? Is it much better?

Thanks
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