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mono vs. stereo
Old 26th November 2009 | Show parent
  #31
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Quote:
Originally Posted by alehoe ➡️
but when you convert something from mono to stereo you get the same exact signal on the left and the right..
its like converting an mp3 to wav - doesnt work.

edit: one thing that does work, is if the same signal is slightly delayed on one side = different information = stereo = profit
Old 26th November 2009 | Show parent
  #32
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kasprouch ➡️
its like converting an mp3 to wav - doesnt work.

the only thing that does work, is if the same signal is slightly delayed on one side = phase issues if converted back to mono


all im trying to say is that if the the signal is mono it doesn't matter if the file is stereo or mono
Old 26th November 2009 | Show parent
  #33
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Quote:
Originally Posted by alehoe ➡️
why are we talking about mic'ing techniques all of a sudden heh
'cause that is where "stereo" comes from.
Stereo is an technique to give you an illusion of 2D space (width and depth) and is strongly related to recording techniques.
Old 26th November 2009 | Show parent
  #34
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Quote:
Originally Posted by alehoe ➡️
but when you convert something from mono to stereo you get the same exact signal on the left and the right..
Tha't's still a mono signal --> mono is simply same waveform in each channel. Whether this 'split' is done at the output or in the file does not matter.

Quote:
Originally Posted by mullet ➡️
but both increase amplitude in the panned side and reduce in the other side, so what is the difference?
The difference lies in the psychoacoustic effect. Two speakers create a stereo field. The same waveform in each speaker has no 'width', this is mono. When you adjust the relative level of the channels, the psychoacoustic effect of this is placement in the stereo field: panning.

A stereo signal has different waveforms in each speaker and the psychoacoustic effect of this is that it takes up a much broader range of the stereo field, it has width.
Old 26th November 2009 | Show parent
  #35
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HomeProducer ➡️
'cause that is where "stereo" comes from.
Stereo is an technique to give you an illusion of 2D space (width and depth) and is strongly related to recording techniques.
yeah but we were talking about drum samples and synths.. i think?
Old 26th November 2009 | Show parent
  #36
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Quote:
Originally Posted by alehoe ➡️
yeah but we were talking about drum samples and synths.. i think?
yes, but ...

Quote:
well technically everything is double mono
and here I disagree referring to time-of-arrival stereophony used in recording or approximated with DSP.

but never mind ..
Old 26th November 2009 | Show parent
  #37
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kasprouch ➡️
either way, it doesnt really matter what the sound is in, as you can go about it differently. there are plenty of plugs that will do the mono'ing down below for you, where it matters the most. i.e. they'll take everything below 150/300hz and put it in mono, and leave the rest in stereo. best of both worlds!

one of these type of plugs is Otium's Basslane. DNR's MixControl has it too.
So would a good approach be to keep everything that lies <150hz in mono and the rest in stereo?

Also, what would be a good approach to panning a stereo fx? Would it make sense to use a imager or widener plugin of some sort such as the waves s1-imager?
Old 26th November 2009 | Show parent
  #38
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sctt_stone ➡️
It is always cool to me to listen to the old Beatles recordings around the Strawberry feilds era. They will pan bass and drums over to one side and guitars to the other.

I actually kinda like it.
I wanna go look this up now, but I've heard that The Beatles didn't have anything to do with that kind of crazy panning people always talk about...
Old 26th November 2009 | Show parent
  #39
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mullet ➡️
So would a good approach be to keep everything that lies <150hz in mono and the rest in stereo?

Also, what would be a good approach to panning a stereo fx? Would it make sense to use a imager or widener plugin of some sort such as the waves s1-imager?
I don't think there's much of a concrete answer to your questions. Are you making bedroom music or dancefloor stuff? Most clubs are in Mono, so whatever stereo you do, you're gonna have to make sure its all still legit in mono. You can't say a sweeping statement about anything under so and so hz should be in mono; how often are you grooving to a snare drum that you only hear in one hear, or one ear more than the other? I'm not saying it doesn't happen, but everything here is a case by case basis. I might suggest though, to listen for yourself what it feels like when you're trying to groove to your track, and one of the rhythmic back bones is coming from one side, imo its a wierd feel.

Also, about your question concerning whether or not to use a stereo widener plug, do you like how it sounds when you plug one in?
Old 27th November 2009 | Show parent
  #40
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Quote:
Originally Posted by patrickg ➡️
I don't think there's much of a concrete answer to your questions. Are you making bedroom music or dancefloor stuff? Most clubs are in Mono, so whatever stereo you do, you're gonna have to make sure its all still legit in mono. You can't say a sweeping statement about anything under so and so hz should be in mono; how often are you grooving to a snare drum that you only hear in one hear, or one ear more than the other? I'm not saying it doesn't happen, but everything here is a case by case basis. I might suggest though, to listen for yourself what it feels like when you're trying to groove to your track, and one of the rhythmic back bones is coming from one side, imo its a wierd feel.

Also, about your question concerning whether or not to use a stereo widener plug, do you like how it sounds when you plug one in?
club music for sure. I want this **** to bang and bang hard lol. What do you mean still legit in mono - should it sound the exact same in mono as it does in stereo?

with respect to the stereo widener - is this what they are intended for? Yes, i think i like the sound better because it allows the percussion and bass in the middle to be clearer..
Old 27th November 2009 | Show parent
  #41
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mullet ➡️
What do you mean still legit in mono - should it sound the exact same in mono as it does in stereo?
he means when you put your whole track into mono, do your stereo sounds sound the same or do they go all messy... stereo sounds can lose volume, definition and presence when converted to mono, and in the worst case even disappear. one of the big problems with stereo widening plugs is that they inevitably create phase issues if you overdo it... the only way to check is to pop the track into mono and make sure it still works.

thats one of the reasons so many people use & love auratones... alot of setups will have just one of em, as true mono is only properly reproduced using one speaker - they use them to get their levels right, and check the entire mix for compatibility. some even prefer to do the bulk of their mixing work in mono... its all a matter of taste.
Old 27th November 2009 | Show parent
  #42
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kasprouch ➡️
he means when you put your whole track into mono, do your stereo sounds sound the same or do they go all messy... stereo sounds can lose volume, definition and presence when converted to mono, and in the worst case even disappear. one of the big problems with stereo widening plugs is that they inevitably create phase issues if you overdo it... the only way to check is to pop the track into mono and make sure it still works.

thats one of the reasons so many people use & love auratones... alot of setups will have just one of em, as true mono is only properly reproduced using one speaker - they use them to get their levels right, and check the entire mix for compatibility. some even prefer to do the bulk of their mixing work in mono... its all a matter of taste.
do you know how to pop my track into mono using ableton 7.0?
Old 27th November 2009 | Show parent
  #43
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mullet ➡️
do you know how to pop my track into mono using ableton 7.0?
well i don't use ableton for mixing music but i had a quick look around and found the utility plug in which says that if you set the width to 0% it functions as a mono switch

so all you have to do it put it on the master track, set the width to 0% and turn it on whenever you want to check your mix in mono
Old 27th November 2009 | Show parent
  #44
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Quote:
Originally Posted by alehoe ➡️
well i don't use ableton for mixing music but i had a quick look around and found the utility plug in which says that if you set the width to 0% it functions as a mono switch

so all you have to do it put it on the master track, set the width to 0% and turn it on whenever you want to check your mix in mono
ok so I put the utility plug on my master, and found that it sounds exactly the same at both 0% and 100%. As I go above 100% however, it gets quieter..
Old 27th November 2009 | Show parent
  #45
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mullet ➡️
ok so I put the utility plug on my master, and found that it sounds exactly the same at both 0% and 100%. As I go above 100% however, it gets quieter..
i just tried it and it worked just like it said it would

of course you wont hear a difference if you're checking with a mono signal
Old 27th November 2009 | Show parent
  #46
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I´ve got an Adam A7 dead center for mixing and I use phones to play around with the stereo stuff. It´s a different world inside the phones for sure.

It´s much more inspiring to produce in stereo on nearfields but I just didn´t have the cash then and thought why not? And it works.

You really hear the sound pop out when you´re panning around in mono. And it´s so much easier to set the levels of tracks and effects. EQing is much more straightforward too.

I also use effects that are very mono compatible like the UAD CTC, UAD EMT 140 & 250, UAD UAD CE-1, UAD Dimension D. This helps a lot.
Old 27th November 2009 | Show parent
  #47
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Quote:
Originally Posted by XAXAU ➡️
I´ve got an Adam A7 dead center for mixing and I use phones to play around with the stereo stuff. It´s a different world inside the phones for sure.

It´s much more inspiring to produce in stereo on nearfields but I just didn´t have the cash then and thought why not? And it works.

You really hear the sound pop out when you´re panning around in mono. And it´s so much easier to set the levels of tracks and effects. EQing is much more straightforward too.

I also use effects that are very mono compatible like the UAD CTC, UAD EMT 140 & 250, UAD UAD CE-1, UAD Dimension D. This helps a lot.
You are panning with one speaker? How would that work?
Old 28th November 2009 | Show parent
  #48
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mans ➡️
You are panning with one speaker? How would that work?
Just pan and listen.
Old 28th November 2009 | Show parent
  #49
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i'd love to see a pic of your setup XAXAU

sounds very interesting and a good idea actually because most the time when im mixing with my monitors i can't really go into detail with the detailed stereo panning so i use the headphones for that
Old 28th November 2009 | Show parent
  #50
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Quote:
Originally Posted by XAXAU ➡️
Just pan and listen.
The only thing you would be able to hear is a level change.
Old 28th November 2009 | Show parent
  #51
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Quote:
Originally Posted by alehoe ➡️
i'd love to see a pic of your setup XAXAU

sounds very interesting and a good idea actually because most the time when im mixing with my monitors i can't really go into detail with the detailed stereo panning so i use the headphones for that
So you have no room treatment?

I don´t have any atm but moving to Malaysia soon and teaming up with my partner there and then I can hear what I´m doing properly

I think room treatment is THE most important piece of gear in the studio.

Once I get the drums banging on the A7 and the levels right I dive into the phones. It´s so much fun to arrange in there
Old 28th November 2009 | Show parent
  #52
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mans ➡️
The only thing you would be able to hear is a level change.
Sure. It´s really easy to find the sweet spot where the least amount of cancellation takes place. Do you really have to hear where you place it in the stereo field? Just look at the pan knob, you´ve done stereo panning a thousand times, I think you know what it´s gonna sound like. Unless you´re mucking about with delays, then I dive into the phones and of course check in true mono again.
Old 28th November 2009 | Show parent
  #53
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Quote:
Originally Posted by XAXAU ➡️
Sure. It´s really easy to find the sweet spot where the least amount of cancellation takes place. Do you really have to hear where you place it in the stereo field? Just look at the pan knob, you´ve done stereo panning a thousand times, I think you know what it´s gonna sound like. Unless you´re mucking about with delays, then I dive into the phones and of course check in true mono again.
Interesting. Going to have to try this thumbsup
Old 28th November 2009 | Show parent
  #54
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Quote:
Originally Posted by XAXAU ➡️
So you have no room treatment?

I don´t have any atm but moving to Malaysia soon and teaming up with my partner there and then I can hear what I´m doing properly

I think room treatment is THE most important piece of gear in the studio.

Once I get the drums banging on the A7 and the levels right I dive into the phones. It´s so much fun to arrange in there
yeah no treatment over here

i've been holding it off because i was supposed to move but then it never happened so i think im just gonna make my bass traps
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