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Is the Ensoniq DP PRO on the same level as the PCM 91?
Old 4th February 2009
  #1
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🎧 10 years
Is the Ensoniq DP PRO on the same level as the PCM 91?

For those of you who use or have used both.
I need a box that I can finish an album with.
I am not so worried about effects.
I have lots of pedals with stereo outs.
I want a great reverb that can be tweaked and has modulation.

I would like to keep it under 2,000. 1,500 if possible.
Thanks.
Old 4th February 2009
  #2
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No. The DP/Pro has some cool tricks up its sleeve and is a steal for its secondhand price, but the reverbs are raspy, gnarly and are better for special effects.

If you want to keep it cheap, then check out the Kurzweil KSP-8, which can be purchased secondhand for the money you have in mind. Cheaper still would be the Kurzweil Rumor or Sony DPS V77, which I regret selling. If you have AES/EBU io, then the Ursa Major Space Station can be bought for around a grand secondhand. It has "character" reverbs and a very high quality room algorithm that sounds great. It also has the accessibility of a remote without needing one!
Old 4th February 2009 | Show parent
  #3
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chrisso's Avatar
 
🎧 15 years
I'd agree with the above but add...
What about the Lexicon PCM70?
It's a little long in the tooth, but still a studio staple.
Also you can afford a Lexicon 200:
Lexicon 200 (used)
Old 4th February 2009 | Show parent
  #4
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🎧 10 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by our_swimmer ➑️
If you want to keep it cheap, then check out the Kurzweil KSP-8, which can be purchased secondhand for the money you have in mind. Cheaper still would be the Kurzweil Rumor...
Sage advice.../thread over, heh.

The KSP8 will deliver the reverb you want, do multiple channels of it, *and* give you many great-sounding effects too.

The Rumour will give you one channel of the KSP8's reverb, and leave you with a lot of coin left over.


cheers,
Ian
Old 5th February 2009 | Show parent
  #5
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Indeed, my KSP rig came with the RSP-8 and every expansion, costing me exactly 2 grand. It's doable.
Old 5th February 2009 | Show parent
  #6
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Right. Yeah my thing is that I want a reverb box with more than one color.
I want a box that can ssssssssshhhhhhhhh
or provibe subtle ambience.
I listened to demos earlier of the Bricasti M7 and was blown away but its wayy out of my price range at the moment.
I also heard some demos of the Lexicon PCM 96 and surprisingly did not like it at all.
It sounded to clean.
Seems to be a common problem with new gear of all types.
When I think reverb I want Kid A.
Huge dark spaces.
I also think Sashas Xpander.
ssssssssshhhhhhhh.
So I may have to save my coin for a 480l.

Can any of you good slutz record samples of the KSP?
PLease?
Old 5th February 2009 | Show parent
  #7
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🎧 15 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by sctt_stone ➑️
Right. Yeah my thing is that I want a reverb box with more than one color.
When I think reverb I want Kid A.
Huge dark spaces.
I also think Sashas Xpander.
ssssssssshhhhhhhh.

You can do a ton of stuff with the PCM70.
Reverbwise it's no slouch and has some other amazing electronica friendly fx under the cover.
It's no surprise Brian Eno knows these boxes inside out.
Old 5th February 2009 | Show parent
  #8
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🎧 10 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by sctt_stone ➑️
Right. Yeah my thing is that I want a reverb box with more than one color.
That's why we suggested the Kurzweil. It has many reverb colors because it has many algorithms - not just patches - but the actual structures that process the audio. These algos were designed by one of the godfathers of reverb - Christopher Moore - who also did Ursa Major and AKG devices.

Quote:
Originally Posted by sctt_stone ➑️
So I may have to save my coin for a 480l.
Don't kid yourself.


cheers,
Ian
Old 5th February 2009 | Show parent
  #9
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🎧 10 years
What? they are only 4.5 grand or so. I could wait until August and use my next student refund on it.
Gotta love student loans.

Which means I could
Quote:
Originally Posted by aeonlux ➑️
That's why we suggested the Kurzweil. It has many reverb colors because it has many algorithms - not just patches - but the actual structures that process the audio. These algos were designed by one of the godfathers of reverb - Christopher Moore - who also did Ursa Major and AKG devices.



Don't kid yourself.


cheers,
Ian
Old 5th February 2009 | Show parent
  #10
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🎧 10 years
Can anyone post demos of the KSP?
Old 5th February 2009 | Show parent
  #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by aeonlux ➑️
These algos were designed by one of the godfathers of reverb - Christopher Moore - who also did Ursa Major and AKG devices.
! The penny never dropped. Nice one.
Old 5th February 2009 | Show parent
  #12
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🎧 10 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by sctt_stone ➑️
What? they are only 4.5 grand or so. I could wait until August and use my next student refund on it.
Gotta love student loans. Which means I could
My point wasn't that you could not afford it. Sorry for the misunderstanding.

My point is that you would pay a lot of coin for a box that won't do all that you want, i.e., it does a certain color very well, but there are many colors it does not do.

Again, this is why we suggested the Kurz - because you can spend a little and get a single channel, or spend a bit more (but 1/4 the price of a 480L) and have multiple-channels (tops for production) of world-class reverb in a variety of colors - from long halls to ambience to drum fatteners - it's all there. Then you can also consider the filters, shapers, saturators, compressors, delays, overdrive, and other effects, all with MIDI control, that you'd get.

Check Kurz's site for some demos, and also search GSlutz - there is talk of this unit in older threads (not just this subforum).


cheers,
Ian
Old 5th February 2009
  #13
Gear Addict
 
🎧 15 years
KSP8!!

I too love the kind of sound you are after (Sasha etc)
I have owned many boxes (Ensoniq DP4, PCM 80/90 etc) and have access to many other reverbs including a TC 6000 (too clean!) and even real 140 Plates.
The KSP8 is always used in preference! It just has the kind of "sound" i have always been looking for. I do prefer it for the smaller reverbs generally tho...
If you want the big Sasha/Orb sound then you have to get an Eventide.. I have an Orville here and the reverb is unique. It doesn't sound so good on real instrument type stuff but on Electronics..wow..Sasha uses an Orville btw
If you want the big cavernous sound you should also check out the AMS RMX16...

Overall i would recomend the KSP tho..it has many many flavours and will give you at least 4 of them at a time in very high quality! If you get spare change pick up a used Ensoniq DP4 (not the plus!). I had one and i still miss it.

Lifer
P.S. I AM saving for a Bricasti tho'

Last edited by Lifer; 5th February 2009 at 04:13 PM.. Reason: added info
Old 5th February 2009 | Show parent
  #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sctt_stone ➑️
Can anyone post demos of the KSP?
I don't have my KSP with me here, sorry.
Old 5th February 2009 | Show parent
  #15
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🎧 15 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by sctt_stone ➑️
What? they are only 4.5 grand or so.
You really don't need to spend that much.
Old 5th February 2009 | Show parent
  #16
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omegaomega's Avatar
 
🎧 10 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lifer ➑️
If you get spare change pick up a used Ensoniq DP4 (not the plus!). I had one and i still miss it.
Hi!

Why not the plus? I am looking to buy a second hand DP4 for some time now and I thought the plus is much better than the non-plus. What's wrong with the plus then?
Old 5th February 2009 | Show parent
  #17
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Lifer is nonplussed!
Old 10th February 2009 | Show parent
  #18
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🎧 10 years
i had the DP4("+", i think..), along with the Lexicon PCM80, TC M2000 and Roland srv 330 and they all sounded completely different, and were useful for different things.

in summary:

DP4 - fat, warm sounding reverbs (along with some other pretty strange effects - envelope followers & the like. i actually liked the compressor on solo vocals, but for some reason it seemed to break up on more than one at a time...wierd)

pcm80 - lovely, deep, crystal clear reverbs (along with lovely delays & choruses etc..)

m2000 - miles better than the powercore i tried out, which sounded AWFUL in comparison - maybe i got a dud. but still the least inspiring of all the units. does, however, produce useable, clear reverbs....but which lack real depth or interest. oh...and virtually every other effect (bar the slap "elvis-like" delay) on this unit was unusable. made me wonder how people EVER managed to use chorus/phasing/etc... and the compressor was PATHETIC

srv330 - now this had some lovely warm reverbs, crisp ones, strange 3d ones. there were even effects on it that made things sound like they were coming from behind you, or from the other room....but you had to check mono compatability (i just used some of the effects anyway on my album even though they disappeared in mono! - only minor parts..). pete waterman's studio bought this off me in the end and used it on hihats for pretty much every track they did...just the same preset every time! regretted selling this almost as soon as i'd done it.

all of the above were bitches to program, esp. the dp4, which just ended up flashing a million red lights at you until you wanted to smash it to pieces. once you actually figured out which bit of it you were editing (and how the 4 fx were configured) the editing was pretty easy. unlike the srv330 - azimuth...wtf?
Old 10th February 2009
  #19
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🎧 15 years
Well I now own a DP/4 and a Kurzweil rumour and I completely agree with the comments already made on these two devices. The dp/4 is fun and was my first hw reverb. Some of the verbs are useable, especialy the non linear drum patches. I use them more as effects than for adding a convincing sense of space.

The Rumour completely and utterly out classes the dp/4 when it comes to pro sounding reverbs . Different league altogether. I find it very inspiring to use.

I really enjoy owning both of these boxes.
Old 10th February 2009
  #20
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🎧 10 years
Tell me it can make my P5 sound like a Mini Moog and Im all ove it
ne;3901134]This isn't going to be the most popular post but my advice would be if you can't afford something in the 3 - 4000 range, ie:bricasti, pcm96,
don't even bother going outboard unless it's to serve a special purpose or you find a brilliant deal in the 2000 range !

There's lots of outboard specialty pieces for a good price like H3000se,PCM70, 200 etc but if you need something to strap across a mix,
I'd go with plugins in this price range. Many studios have gone to a hybrid mix of both.
With 1500 in plugins & a little creativity, you can do something very close to the higher end units in electronic music.
Vocals & complex sources like strings etc, that could be another story. Jmo.



There's alot of "tweakability" in this unit. Give it a test run & you might be surprised.[/QUOTE]
Old 10th February 2009
  #21
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chrisso's Avatar
 
🎧 15 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by Drone ➑️
There's lots of outboard specialty pieces for a good price like H3000se,PCM70, 200 etc but if you need something to strap across a mix,
I'd go with plugins in this price range. Many studios have gone to a hybrid mix of both.
With 1500 in plugins & a little creativity, you can do something very close to the higher end units in electronic music.
I wouldn't exactly call the PCM70 a 'speciality piece'.
It has a lot of good reverb patches.
I also haven't noticed much plug-in reverb action at professional studios. 99.99999% have a rack with Lexicon 480, PCM's, AMS hardware units and large plates.
When do you strap a reverb across a mix?
Old 10th February 2009 | Show parent
  #22
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🎧 10 years
I think I need to give up the all in one idea.
Kinda like looking for a synth to do everything.
I have good analogue pedals for modulation so really I just need great reverb.
I am thinking about grabing a Lex PCM 80 a TC M2000 and a Kurweill Rumor.
As they say if I cant get a great mix out of that Its not the gear thats the problem.


But yeah if I had the cash it would be a 480L and Bricasti.
Old 10th February 2009 | Show parent
  #23
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🎧 15 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by Drone ➑️
I haven't tried the pcm70 ver 2 but from what i've heard it has a distinct sound. -especially the tiled room preset.
It has a few basic and standard reverbs. These are the kind of sounds people would use as an all in one reverb setting.
I think the best advice is for Scott to try and hear some of these boxes before writing them off and assuming a Bricasti and 480 are the only solution.

Some of the less-high end boxes see a lot of use in high-end studios. The PCM70 wasn't really a budget solution when it was first released anyway.
I've worked in television and film for quite a few years and many people are using PCM's, Rumour's, KSP's etc and we are mostly looking for pristine basic plate and hall sounds, not so much the character fx like 'tiled room'.
Quote:
Originally Posted by sctt_stone ➑️
Kinda like looking for a synth to do everything.
I disagree.
A basic reverb is a basic reverb and many top studios and composers rely heavily on one reverb as the main workhorse, be it a 480, or a real plate room.
When multi-track recording first started that's all people had, and it would still be the norm in the classical world.
Old 11th February 2009 | Show parent
  #24
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1 Review written
🎧 15 years
I have a DP/4 and still think it has one of the best phasers/flangers in the business.

Reverbs are dark and gritty but certainly not lush...for that I generally use an altiverb plate.
Old 11th February 2009 | Show parent
  #25
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🎧 15 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by omegaomega ➑️
Hi!

Why not the plus? I am looking to buy a second hand DP4 for some time now and I thought the plus is much better than the non-plus. What's wrong with the plus then?
I had both the DP4 and the plus..the original unit while slightly noisier is much smoother sounding. Not sure why but side by side, the modulation programs and the distortion sounded much more analogue on the original unit. The plus has a crunchy spiky sound in comparison. I read somewhere that the original had some analogue components that the plus didn't .. which might be phooey... but it did "sound" that way. The Flangers/Phasers and Rotary on the DP4 are magical btw..

thumbsup
Old 11th February 2009 | Show parent
  #26
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🎧 15 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by sctt_stone ➑️
I think I need to give up the all in one idea.
Kinda like looking for a synth to do everything.
I have good analogue pedals for modulation so really I just need great reverb.
I am thinking about grabing a Lex PCM 80 a TC M2000 and a Kurweill Rumor.
As they say if I cant get a great mix out of that Its not the gear thats the problem.


But yeah if I had the cash it would be a 480L and Bricasti.
These 3 will give you quite a few different flavours (although i prefered the 90 to the 80) ..a good choice.
Before you part with your cash make sure you at least check out the Eventide Eclipse..you'll understand why when you do.
Old 11th February 2009 | Show parent
  #27
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🎧 10 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by sctt_stone ➑️
I think I need to give up the all in one idea.
Kinda like looking for a synth to do everything.
Fair comment, but one good 'verb can go a lot farther than one good synth in terms of total production.

Quote:
Originally Posted by sctt_stone ➑️
I have good analogue pedals for modulation so really I just need great reverb.
Pedals can certainly deliver as it concerns modulation (I have a few myself), but make no mistake, rack units can deliver some modulations that pedals never will.

Quote:
Originally Posted by sctt_stone ➑️
I am thinking about grabing a Lex PCM 80 a TC M2000 and a Kurweill Rumor.
Go with the Rumour first and see what it can do. Relatively low coin and it offers a lot, great algos first and foremost.

The t.c. M2000 is fairly humdrum on the effects, and in terms of reverb, is not one of the big-boys. I'd grab a Sony DPS-V77 before it any day of the week, not to mention a Roland SRV-330.

The Lexicon PCM-80 will deliver some nice reverb to be sure (I own and use a PCM-81), but I don't know if the return on investment would make it worth it, esp. after getting a Rumour. Don't get me wrong, I love Lexicon reverb, but of mine, I would let go of the PCM-81 first and keep the Nuverbs and LXP-15II (cheap, but sweet).

Quote:
Originally Posted by sctt_stone ➑️
But yeah if I had the cash it would be a 480L and Bricasti.
With v2.0 of the Bricasti algos, you won't need the 480L. Or so they say.


cheers,
Ian
Old 11th February 2009 | Show parent
  #28
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🎧 15 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by chrisso ➑️
When do you strap a reverb across a mix?




-Casey
Old 11th February 2009 | Show parent
  #29
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🎧 15 years
Scott, mentioning Kid A, and if indeed you're considering parting with $3 - 4k, i would strongly suggest pairing a Lexicon 300 with a stereo Eventide like DSP7000/7500/4000B+. its a combo made in heaven. one has trademark huge lexicon sound. can sound majestic, dark, thick, smooth. the other does everything, from totally fkdup sml non linear spaces for drums n stuff, to full out cinematic, alien landscapes. besides reverb, eventide will provide you with best there is muti-fx and pitch trasnpose engine.

both machines, or if you will, their algorithm heritages, have track record bigger than anything else out there. no it wont make P5 sound like mini, but it will make your synths sound huge, lthe way they are meant to sound on a record.

much more versatile deal than a single 480. haven't followed the prices lately but both are in vicinity of $2K. DSP7000 could perhaps be found for 1.8k. throw me a PM if u want some mp3


about PCM-70: i love mine but its not good as only reverb. it excells in sml and mid sized spaces, but u still need something to do vast, huge stuff.
Old 17th February 2009 | Show parent
  #30
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🎧 10 years
Hi. Would any of you care to post samples presets from your gear wether it be a Kurzweil Rumor or a Lex 480l.

I know that there are scattered samples around gearslutz but I feel it would be usefull for buyers to have samples demonstrating the basic character of differant boxes in one place. Thanks.

I myself will be buying something in the next week or so and my budget is now up to 2,500.00. I guess its no surprise that the best samles I have heard have been from a 480 followed by the Bricastti then the PCM 96.

I have not been able to find any clips of the Kurzweills or the PCM 80 or the Eventides.
Thanks
Scott.
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