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Emulate Pro-One/Prophet-5 with VA?
Old 26th January 2009
  #1
Gear Addict
 
John_Seward's Avatar
 
🎧 10 years
Emulate Pro-One/Prophet-5 with VA?

Hi!

I've been making dance music for a few years with a more modern sound, but now I'd like to implant some more vintage stuff in my music.

Could someone give me some pointers on how to emulate the Sequential sound? My setup consist of a Waldorf Blofeld and a NL 2.

What's the most important things to have in mind when emulating old analogue gear with new VA-stuff like the synthesizers in my setup?

Thanks in advance,
John
Old 26th January 2009
  #2
Gear Guru
 
chrisso's Avatar
 
🎧 15 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by John_Seward ➑️

What's the most important things to have in mind when emulating old analogue gear with new VA-stuff like the synthesizers in my setup?
I have no idea, but I would say the Pro One is a great little synth to own - the real one that is. It has more going for it than any VA emulation could copy.
Old 26th January 2009
  #3
Moderator
 
Reptil's Avatar
 
2 Reviews written
🎧 15 years
hmmm
that it sounds good?
you can give a nice touch to modern synths by using filters, phasers etc.

you won't get close to a Prophet though.. pretty unique sound.
the software and VA synths don't do it justice. those old machines have some crunchy 3 dimensional thing going on. hard to put your finger on it,
so if you want 100% genuine Prophet 5 rev2.2 there is only one solution..
find one

OTOH if you're going for something that is not a copy..
The new prophet 08 might be what you need.

Orrr EVEN BETTER that new little mean Mopho, which is beyond fat, and would be the perfect playmate for your lean and slinky Blofeld.
Old 27th January 2009 | Show parent
  #4
Lives for gear
 
🎧 10 years
Thats what I was just gonna suggest. I own a Prophet 5 and although the Mopho does not sound like it, it sounds like its cousin. It sounds great.
You should buy it.
You will not get real analogue tone out of a program no matter what you do to it.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Reptil ➑️
hmmm
that it sounds good?
you can give a nice touch to modern synths by using filters, phasers etc.

you won't get close to a Prophet though.. pretty unique sound.
the software and VA synths don't do it justice. those old machines have some crunchy 3 dimensional thing going on. hard to put your finger on it,
so if you want 100% genuine Prophet 5 rev2.2 there is only one solution..
find one

OTOH if you're going for something that is not a copy..
The new prophet 08 might be what you need.

Orrr EVEN BETTER that new little mean Mopho, which is beyond fat, and would be the perfect playmate for your lean and slinky Blofeld.
Old 27th January 2009 | Show parent
  #5
Gear Addict
 
John_Seward's Avatar
 
🎧 10 years
Thanks, I'll check out the mopho!

Anyway.
I attented to a Nord Wave release party, where a guy got his Nord Wave to sound almost identical to a ARP 2600 patch. Kinda "our VA synth can do anything, even sound like an ARP". Even though you could hear some minor difference, the NWave patch was awesome. Sure it wasnt an arp, but pretty damn close.

If you're really into programming synthesizers I bet you can get any subtractive synthesizer to sound/or resemble another (subtractive).

All the best,
John
Old 27th January 2009 | Show parent
  #6
Lives for gear
 
🎧 10 years
Hey- Truth is 99% of people can not tell the difference and really do not care what you make your music on or with.
Some of us- myself included get hung up on the details like tone and tamber.
In the end, to the listener, it probably does not matter anymore.

Quote:
Originally Posted by John_Seward ➑️
Thanks, I'll check out the mopho!

Anyway.
I attented to a Nord Wave release party, where a guy got his Nord Wave to sound almost identical to a ARP 2600 patch. Kinda "our VA synth can do anything, even sound like an ARP". Even though you could hear some minor difference, the NWave patch was awesome. Sure it wasnt an arp, but pretty damn close.

If you're really into programming synthesizers I bet you can get any subtractive synthesizer to sound/or resemble another (subtractive).

All the best,
John
Old 27th January 2009 | Show parent
  #7
Lives for gear
 
🎧 10 years
prophet-5
can be emulated with: native instruments pro-53,
yamaha plg150-an / an1x / an200
arturia prophet vs

pro-one and prophet-5:
also with sonic core dsp plugins
Welcome to SONIC CORE

i have the plg150-an with kenton plugstation reclocked with drawmer m-clock.
----------------------------------------------------
Pro-Wave DSP Plug-In
Synthesizer

Now featuring both Rev1 and Rev3 Prophet filter emulations (CEM & SSM), as well as the Minimax Lowpass filter. Of course, it includes all of the v1.1 changes, such as:

1) Midi clocking of the Loop Envelope
2) Extended Midi times for sync - up to 8 bars/1 cycle
3) Note and Mod Wheel added to PolyMod Source lists
4) Enable switch and Sensitivity added for Mod Wheel
5) Panning circuit from Solaris added.

check the MP3 sound samples

Return of the Prophet

Alhambra 20by 20night 20v4 20 - 20128kb

Happy Pro-Wave

Whale 20song
------------------------------------------
Pro One DSP Plug-In
Synthesizer

I had a customer contact me about buying the old Pro One plug-in I made (for Wine Country) some time ago, and shortly after I sold it to him, he wrote to ask if I could add some highpass and bandpass filters. I asked him did he want 24dB or 12 dB slope filters? He came back with, "yes"....for both! So, I added the filters, including the SSM and Minimoog emulations, plus a new filter select parameter.

check the MP3 sound samples

Zigma BP - HP Demo 256
------------------------------------------------------
Welcome to SONIC CORE

Profit 5 DSP Plug-in
Virtual analog synthesizer

After an in-depth analysis, the circuitry of the legendary Prophet-5 synthesizer was transferred to the modern DSP platform using our Circuit Modeling technology. This allowed for a realistic emulation of the distinct sonic behavior of this classic machine down to the minutest details using modern technology. A comparison will convince even the most analytical listener of the fact that the Profit-5 sound is amazingly close to the original, producing exactly the polyphonic characteristic Prophet sound.

check the atteched MP3 file



Profit 5 DSP Plug-in

Old 27th January 2009 | Show parent
  #8
Lives for gear
 
sleepwalker's Avatar
 
🎧 15 years
Depends on the 2600 patch. I can get a sampler(if I sample the 2600) to sound 99.999% like my 2600 if it's a static lead/bass.

Quote:
Originally Posted by John_Seward ➑️
Thanks, I'll check out the mopho!

Anyway.
I attented to a Nord Wave release party, where a guy got his Nord Wave to sound almost identical to a ARP 2600 patch. Kinda "our VA synth can do anything, even sound like an ARP". Even though you could hear some minor difference, the NWave patch was awesome. Sure it wasnt an arp, but pretty damn close.

If you're really into programming synthesizers I bet you can get any subtractive synthesizer to sound/or resemble another (subtractive).

All the best,
John
Old 27th January 2009 | Show parent
  #9
Gear Guru
 
chrisso's Avatar
 
🎧 15 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by sleepwalker ➑️
Depends on the 2600 patch.
I agree.
And two of the BEST features on the 2600 are the audio input and the cheapo spring reverb. Can a VA do that?
Case in point, the Pro One has a very nice audio input, plus an interesting step sequencer.
Yes you can emulate some sounds, but I doubt you can emulate the synth as a whole.
The argument about not being able to tell the difference does not address the tactile qualities and useful functions of hardware synths such as these. they send you into different creative directions, and that is their value over software emulations.
I know we hate the VA vs real argument, but I'm saying this because the original questioner sounds quite experienced and asked about implanting the vintage sound and asked about the important things to bear in mind when emulating vintage stuff.
The importance in my mind is not just about recreating a few patches, it's about workflow and creative inspiration.
Old 27th January 2009
  #10
Lives for gear
 
Popbott's Avatar
 
🎧 10 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by John_Seward ➑️
...Could someone give me some pointers on how to emulate the Sequential sound? My setup consist of a Waldorf Blofeld and a NL 2.

What's the most important things to have in mind when emulating old analogue gear with new VA-stuff like the synthesizers in my setup?

Thanks in advance,
John
John, did you know that Clavia has re-created all the original Prophet 5 sounds in the multi bank of your Nordlead2 ? It's way cool!!!

The most important thing to keep in mind when emulating old gear IMO is to try and keep your signals nice and phat by using a nice outboard preamp while tracking or mixing.
Old 27th January 2009 | Show parent
  #11
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Heathfinnie's Avatar
 
🎧 10 years
Beat me to it...
Old 27th January 2009 | Show parent
  #12
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sleepwalker's Avatar
 
🎧 15 years
Exactly. I'll be honest, I use the 2600 as a 1 voice bass synth a lot. Truthfully, this sound is totally doable with sampling software, but that's not exactly an impressive feat. The 2600 has a wonderful raw osc tone. Sample it and be happy you've got access to the sound, in a sampler, you can even go polyphonic. Amazing.

All that said, you'll be very disappointed trying to emulate the ring mod and enveloper follower or even simple controllable modulations. Again, static modulations are totally doable via software/sampling.

All that said, do what you gotta do. I love my 2600, but I got it for nearly nothing. I'm sure I could survive witha sampler and a lap[top and be fine.


Quote:
Originally Posted by chrisso ➑️
I agree.
And two of the BEST features on the 2600 are the audio input and the cheapo spring reverb. Can a VA do that?
Case in point, the Pro One has a very nice audio input, plus an interesting step sequencer.
Yes you can emulate some sounds, but I doubt you can emulate the synth as a whole.
The argument about not being able to tell the difference does not address the tactile qualities and useful functions of hardware synths such as these. they send you into different creative directions, and that is their value over software emulations.
I know we hate the VA vs real argument, but I'm saying this because the original questioner sounds quite experienced and asked about implanting the vintage sound and asked about the important things to bear in mind when emulating vintage stuff.
The importance in my mind is not just about recreating a few patches, it's about workflow and creative inspiration.
Old 27th January 2009 | Show parent
  #13
Gear Addict
 
John_Seward's Avatar
 
🎧 10 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by Popbott ➑️
John, did you know that Clavia has re-created all the original Prophet 5 sounds in the multi bank of your Nordlead2 ? It's way cool!!!

The most important thing to keep in mind when emulating old gear IMO is to try and keep your signals nice and phat by using a nice outboard preamp while tracking or mixing.
But I don't own a Nord Lead 2.

How do I get Reason 4.0 sound like a Mini Moog?
I want the drift and everything!

All the best,
John
Old 27th January 2009 | Show parent
  #14
Lives for gear
 
🎧 10 years
I'm half way through a HUGE project for a large sample/vsti company (no prizes for guessing who lol).

Let me just say that you can not get that analog sound that so many people lust after with virtual emulations. Take the sequential Pro 1 for example, nothing in the virtual world comes even remotly close to the bass presence and sound of this awesome little synth.

You HAVE to sample it, it's the only way. Like the previous poster said about his Arp 2600, if you want thatarp sound in a vsti you have to sample it and use a virtual sampler like say Kontakt 3.

I've just finished a simple bass sound from the Pro 1, it took over 300 recordings for a 5 octave sound. I have been known to do over 400 for a patch. Top of the range sound card and some various bits of vintage compression (no virtual...gotta be hardware here), all helps in the process.

Only problem is size, this project is turning out to be a monster, far larger than my last one.

The virtual Korg MS-20 up against the real thing was funny as was the Pro-1 and Prophet 5. The Pro-53 is a good vsti synth, but it's not a Prophet 5.
Old 27th January 2009 | Show parent
  #15
Gear Guru
 
SWAN808's Avatar
 
1 Review written
🎧 10 years
I generally agree with the above sentiment - however if you want Arp sounds - I really think this emulation is pretty damn good. Its not 100% there but the closest yet IMO

Way Out Ware >>> Products

Captain Proton - if you are doing a big sample collection - can you PLEASE sample some classic poly-synths - and LOTS of samples from them....it seems they are either too few or mainly mono-synths (probably as the big poly-synths are too expensive to get hold of...) in the collections so far....

Also can you do round-robin sample/key selection AND varied sample start point? THEN I think a collection could be very good! Otherwise the sample patches sound sterile....

Seeing as Prophet 5s, Jupiters and Oberheims are so expensive - surely there is a market for a very good (and very big!) vintage synth sample collection...? I thought Omnisphere would be this - but IMO it has not delivered....

UVI Synths Anthology is the best thus far IMO and it is quite limited...
Old 27th January 2009 | Show parent
  #16
Lives for gear
 
🎧 10 years
Hello Swan808,

you're right about round robin and random start points. Way ahead of you dude

I've even done something that no one else has ever done before but I can't say as every other sample producer would then copy (get my ego eh lol).

The Timewarp vsti is pretty damn good, certainly better than the Auturia emulation, but still not there yet. I think it's the oscilators, they never sound right in virtual synths. The filters can get pretty close like in the Oditty synth, but the rest all ends up in a low presence aliasing vsti frag fest.
Old 27th January 2009 | Show parent
  #17
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Heathfinnie's Avatar
 
🎧 10 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by John_Seward ➑️
But I don't own a Nord Lead 2
What did you mean in your original post when you said you have a NL 2?
Old 27th January 2009 | Show parent
  #18
Gear Guru
 
chrisso's Avatar
 
🎧 15 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by SWAN808 ➑️
Also can you do round-robin sample/key selection AND varied sample start point? THEN I think a collection could be very good! Otherwise the sample patches sound sterile....
Even the multi-sampled analogue synth collections are compromised IMO.
They are good, but nothing like owning a real synth.
Firstly, almost every note you play on a real analogue synth has a slightly different timbre, this means tuning, how the envelope and vca react, where the oscillators are in their drift cycle.
Also, and this is a big one for me, there are just so many ways to tweak an old style synth. One thousand ways to slightly adjust a single bass patch for example.
If you go the sampled synth route you are surrendering most of your choices to the taste of the person sampling the synth.
Finally, there's a world of adjustments you can make while the synth is being played. These can't be replicated in sampling.
I think the softsynths are best viewed as an original sound source, rather than a clone of an old synth. I think the virtual analogue sample sets are 50% of what a real analogue is capable of.
They are all useful and worthy tools, just so long as you understand the compromise.
Old 28th January 2009 | Show parent
  #19
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Popbott's Avatar
 
🎧 10 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by John_Seward ➑️
But I don't own a Nord Lead 2.

How do I get Reason 4.0 sound like a Mini Moog?
I want the drift and everything!

All the best,
John
Like Heathfinnie said, what is a NL 2 on your original post?

As for your Minimoog Reason 4 question: If you can't make a Minimoog sounding patch in Reason's basic Subtractor module, maybe you should look for a book on programming synthesizers or something and get the basics down. I believe there are some Combinator patches that come real close to a Minimoog sound that can serve as models for your programming needs.
Old 29th January 2009
  #20
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cramseur's Avatar
 
🎧 15 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by John_Seward ➑️
Hi!

I've been making dance music for a few years with a more modern sound, but now I'd like to implant some more vintage stuff in my music.

Could someone give me some pointers on how to emulate the Sequential sound? My setup consist of a Waldorf Blofeld and a NL 2.

What's the most important things to have in mind when emulating old analogue gear with new VA-stuff like the synthesizers in my setup?

Thanks in advance,
John
+1 on the Sonic Core Pro-12 ASB... That'll take care of the Prophet 5 emulation VA. Way better than the NI Pro 53.
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