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How to get Detroit Techno Sounds
Old 3 weeks ago
  #61
Lives for gear
 
jm2c's Avatar
 
FWIW I don't really compare random youtube videos to commercially released music. You will get deluded real fast and start going "its all garbage these days".. yet, when you go to a curated record store, there's never been a problem finding freshly made good music, in any genre.

Youtube myopia is a thing
Old 3 weeks ago | Show parent
  #62
Lives for gear
 
Analogue Mastering's Avatar
 
🎧 10 years
The envy is great in this one. I'm in MY zone, doing my iteration of techno. You're free to step in, but if you're rather not, that's fine too.

But hate, frustration, belittling and pre-occupation with what has been, won't get u anywhere.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Gearheadz ➡️
The good thing is that most of the homemade detroit techno attempts in this thread and across youtube are so far off the real thing that I'm confident that all the old detroit stuff is going to reach a mona-lisa like status. In my world they already have.

No matter the ever growing amount of features, technologies and the flood of bargain toys out there, you still dont nail it...what does that tell you?

A lot of these detroit techno and house classics are actually complex arrangements from guys who are highly talented or at least highly inspired musicians. In any case these people where very determined.
Back in the day one had to think carefully about what they could afford.

A $15'000 setup in 1986 would be equal $38'000 in 2021. It requires a good amount of confidence and determination to do such investment. Ultimately there was also a lot of cooperation with PRO mastering studios, arrangers and talented singer, songwriters. Thus, also lot of experience and brain power involved. Today any hikikomori can load a preset sequence, sync gear, press record and upload everything onto the web in 30 minutes. Not really a sign of true commitment or talent. Isnt it?

My fat, weed smoking idiot neighbour can afford spending 1500.-- euro for a TD-3, RD-8, RD-9, MS-1 a mixer and a ADC. Doing so is not a sign of determination or a indicator for talent but a sign of a hiper deflated market and slave labour. Any broke hillbilly can afford that amout of gear with social welfare and thats what we witness with 99% of YT electronica performance artists these days. A utter void of talent, a flood of cringe uninspired self promoting woke hikikomori nerds who think investing 1000 euros for gear makes them a artist. Ever wondered why you see all these new gear presenter where they keep on talking for 15 minute showing of their vast technical know-how while presenting just 1 minute of some kind of drone-sounds?

No matter the amount of YT videos out there, it is a rare thing to find vibrant inspiring house or techno performances these days. Thats why everyone sticks to the timeless music of 1985-1993 of that genre. If I find myself 10 DOPE videos of new bedroom techno/house productions a year its actually a lot.

Behind the art of TRAX, metroplex and UR detroit techno is indead a system, a technique but even more a SPIRIT. Dont expect that insiders spill the beans. You get hints here and there. However, talented artists of any genre dont allow you easily to have a look into their soul. Neither they share the full spectrum of acquired technical knowledge and those who push to the forefront are more than not anything, but talented but most of the time self-promoters aka behringer people. The UR guys didnt seek public attention.

Also there is a flood of guerilla marketing out there by new gear producers pointing you more than not into the wrong direction. Behringer is a expert in these fields.

But than again, even gettin yourself the real thing such a Tr-909 doesnt get you there by itself. I just visited a live performance artists who played me some of his tracks based on a real TR-909 TB-303 and some Roland classics. The tracks where awfully bad and uninspiring. It almost gave me a headache Thus, it is neiter a question of gear.

So...what is the secret of the magic of vintage detroit techno? No way around but you will need to start digging far and deep into that rabbit hole. A process that requires working on your talent, knowledge, cooperation and INSPIRATION in the very first line rather than stacking up gear.

But than again...why is it that all boutique, behringer cringe people dont manage to come up with a dope track out of millions of YT videos? Maybe because these people are cheap on the inside...










...or the magic of simplicity..






Face it...this is you...if you cant spot the difference, its a lost cause...
Old 3 weeks ago | Show parent
  #63
Lives for gear
 
gentleclockdivid's Avatar
 
🎧 10 years
Some people are just saying that your posts are anything but Techno , what this has to do with envy is beyond me
Doesn't matter if your zoning or not
Old 3 weeks ago | Show parent
  #64
Lives for gear
 
Analogue Mastering's Avatar
 
🎧 10 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by gentleclockdivid ➡️
Some people are just saying that your posts are anything but Techno , what this has to do with envy is beyond me
Doesn't matter if your zoning or not
It’s very broad, Enjoy…. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Techno
Then benchmark the definition against what I posted above, then we can conclude what it is or isn’t.
Old 3 weeks ago | Show parent
  #65
Quote:
Originally Posted by Analogue Mastering ➡️
I guess it depends on what you’re after, it’s not fundemental religion.
Yes you can sample vibes and rehash, or you can go even further back and recreate the source.
In my case it’s really about trying to create a certain vibe, not to recycle, not identical, but in spirit. With a workflow where I stay in midi untill mixdown. Not because it’s better or more purist, it’s just the way I like to work.
And that is / was a great way to work ... but honestly - when I think of Vinyl, cassette tapes and all those other impacts on the signal chain my eyes immediately turn forwards again.

And 90s techno in general was all about vinyl that was pressed under non ideal circumstances, often by non professionals and so on. That shaped the sound most. And secondly the cheap analog gear that nobody mentions anymore. I mean who was Neve back then?!

If I would make EDM or EDM sounds I know what I´d try first
Old 3 weeks ago | Show parent
  #66
Lives for gear
 
Analogue Mastering's Avatar
 
🎧 10 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by romplix ➡️
And that is / was a great way to work ... but honestly - when I think of Vinyl, cassette tapes and all those other impacts on the signal chain my eyes immediately turn forwards again.

And 90s techno in general was all about vinyl that was pressed under non ideal circumstances, often by non professionals and so on. That shaped the sound most. And secondly the cheap analog gear that nobody mentions anymore. I mean who was Neve back then?!

If I would make EDM or EDM sounds I know what I´d try first
I get your point, but dirt and gritt is easily obtained if that’s what one is after. It’s only 1 part of the equation.
Understanding drive and jack and (I like the lighter side) euphoria emotionally is a much more interesting part of the puzzle.
A great track being too clean will still sound better than a shit track mangled. I like to put stuff into 16/32 or 64 steps
Do that with 3-5 different instruments
Find happyness
Record
Done!

For me modern EDM in DAW, 50+ tracks polished to death, where everything modulates everything is a different game.
Old 3 weeks ago | Show parent
  #67
Quote:
Originally Posted by Analogue Mastering ➡️
I get your point, but dirt and gritt is easily obtained if that’s what one is after. It’s only 1 part of the equation.
Understanding drive and jack and (I like the lighter side) euphoria emotionally is a much more interesting part of the puzzle.
A great track being too clean will still sound better than a shit track mangled. I like to put stuff into 16/32 or 64 steps
Do that with 3-5 different instruments
Find happyness
Record
Done!

For me modern EDM in DAW, 50+ tracks polished to death, where everything modulates everything is a different game.
That last sentence shows me that we have something in common :D

I must admit that I am no mastering engineer and can´t know what some of them can do today.

But I didn´t think of dirt and grit, I already generated that extensively back then. I rather thought about 3D, presence, that solidity, that certain something. That frequency response?

I know very well that a noise floor above the sound changes a lot, but that won´t give me that "vibe" or make a VST really sound like a solid modular

As I´m always curious - could you maybe give us some links to examples of what have done with analog mastering already that maybe also give us an idea of the source material?

I mainly work into the other direction by the way. ROMpler sound. Digital hardware "grit".
Old 3 weeks ago | Show parent
  #68
Lives for gear
 
Analogue Mastering's Avatar
 
🎧 10 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by romplix ➡️
That last sentence shows me that we have something in common :D

I must admit that I am no mastering engineer and can´t know what some of them can do today.

But I didn´t think of dirt and grit, I already generated that extensively back then. I rather thought about 3D, presence, that solidity, that certain something. That frequency response?

I know very well that a noise floor above the sound changes a lot, but that won´t give me that "vibe" or make a VST really sound like a solid modular

As I´m always curious - could you maybe give us some links to examples of what have done with analog mastering already that maybe also give us an idea of the source material?

I mainly work into the other direction by the way. ROMpler sound. Digital hardware "grit".
I'm not sure if I understand your question?
I have some hardware units, a hardware mixer an outboard sequencer. I program patterns, perform and hit record. There is nothing more to it.
Above examples contain no VST's, DAW or automation, it's all coming out of either the onboard sequencer or Toriaz Squid. There is no mastering or processing involved. Would i like the darker vinyl sound of the eighties, Waves Retro-Fi would get me 90% there without the need of a low end mixer and press dub plates.
Old 3 weeks ago | Show parent
  #69
Lives for gear
 
🎧 10 years
It's funny that there is so much back and forth here. The OP asked about gear for "Detroit Techno" not "Techno" in the general. Detroit techno, even after all these years is still a "regional style" that has more to do with musical culture than equipment. Certainly there are "classic" instruments/synthesis methods used in it, which the OP already has well covered.

You can't make "Detroit Techno" without being part of that musical community. You can make something inspired by it for sure, but the more one tries to emulate culture from the outside without being a part of it the more it becomes about what that person creating it imagines it to be rather than what it is. That's fine, people are going to make music inspired by what they like, and such a disconnect can lead to interesting developments, but it can't be "Detroit Techno" (Or "Philly Soul" or "HarDCore" or similar, without the creator actually having a social/cultural connection with whatever regional scene is in question.
Old 3 weeks ago | Show parent
  #70
Lives for gear
 
Analogue Mastering's Avatar
 
🎧 10 years
I think this sums it up nicely. It's not a cloning business, I'm turning 52 this year, I've lived most of the scene from the Netherlands and UK in the past 35 years. That's my heritage on which I'm building.

And that's what I don't understand, House is a universal language, a feeling, you either speak it or you don't but it's not captured into a template, sample or preset pack.
Quote:
Originally Posted by bluegreengold ➡️
It's funny that there is so much back and forth here. The OP asked about gear for "Detroit Techno" not "Techno" in the general. Detroit techno, even after all these years is still a "regional style" that has more to do with musical culture than equipment. Certainly there are "classic" instruments/synthesis methods used in it, which the OP already has well covered.

You can't make "Detroit Techno" without being part of that musical community. You can make something inspired by it for sure, but the more one tries to emulate culture from the outside without being a part of it the more it becomes about what that person creating it imagines it to be rather than what it is. That's fine, people are going to make music inspired by what they like, and such a disconnect can lead to interesting developments, but it can't be "Detroit Techno" (Or "Philly Soul" or "HarDCore" or similar, without the creator actually having a social/cultural connection with whatever regional scene is in question.
Old 3 weeks ago | Show parent
  #71
Lives for gear
 
CasimirsBlake's Avatar
 
🎧 10 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by rasseru ➡️


posted this the other day asking about any other synths that do the bleepy/euphonic Roland pulse thing well apart from the obvious juno/jupiter/101 and got like 0 replies

the irony hasnt escaped me talking about what synth does what in a thread where we should be championing 'use what you got and hit record'
Classic record. Doesn't matter what synths are used for something like this though. More important that effort is made to make a solid groove, actually compose melodies and not succumb to the usual minimalism BS.
Old 3 weeks ago
  #72
Lives for gear
 
Analogue Mastering's Avatar
 
🎧 10 years
Orlando always has been great https://www.discogs.com/artist/4347-Orlando-Voorn
Old 3 weeks ago | Show parent
  #73
Lives for gear
 
CasimirsBlake's Avatar
 
🎧 10 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by cheeswolfenstein ➡️
The new melodic techno is more like 90's trance than techno.

Trance and progressive house are more upbeat than techno is, and there's structural differences. Melodic techno tends to be more repetitive with less big changes than trance.

Melodic techno also has more intricate drums.

Melodic techno have a simple drop while prog/trance will have drops that keep the melody going.
You may have good intentions, but can we please not take this thread in the direction of mass gatekeeping?

Detroit Techno is so much more about vibe than some arbitrarily defined rules. Even at 140 bpm.
Old 3 weeks ago
  #74
Lives for gear
 
jm2c's Avatar
 
As for gear suggestions, I think an MC-101 would be a great box for writing D tech
With only 4 tracks to use, you'll use them wisely. Has lots of Roland sounds.

A Yammy DX100/Casio CZ-101 + MC101 oughta be a decent gigging rig, just add fx
Old 3 weeks ago | Show parent
  #75
Lives for gear
 
NawwwwwSun's Avatar
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by CasimirsBlake ➡️
You may have good intentions, but can we please not take this thread in the direction of mass gatekeeping?

Detroit Techno is so much more about vibe than some arbitrarily defined rules. Even at 140 bpm.
But this music of his doesn’t have the vibe or follow the supposedly “arbitrary” rules.

Words and ideas have meaning, you don’t just get to do whatever and call it something that is defined.
Old 3 weeks ago | Show parent
  #76
Lives for gear
 
NawwwwwSun's Avatar
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gearheadz ➡️
The good thing is that most of the homemade detroit techno attempts in this thread and across youtube are so far off the real thing that I'm confident that all the old detroit stuff is going to reach a mona-lisa like status. In my world they already have.

No matter the ever growing amount of features, technologies and the flood of bargain toys out there, you still dont nail it...what does that tell you?

A lot of these detroit techno and house classics are actually complex arrangements from guys who are highly talented or at least highly inspired musicians. In any case these people where very determined.
Back in the day one had to think carefully about what they could afford.

A $15'000 setup in 1986 would be equal $38'000 in 2021. It requires a good amount of confidence and determination to do such investment. Ultimately there was also a lot of cooperation with PRO mastering studios, arrangers and talented singer, songwriters. Thus, also lot of experience and brain power involved. Today any hikikomori can load a preset sequence, sync gear, press record and upload everything onto the web in 30 minutes. Not really a sign of true commitment or talent. Isnt it?

My fat, weed smoking idiot neighbour can afford spending 1500.-- euro for a TD-3, RD-8, RD-9, MS-1 a mixer and a ADC. Doing so is not a sign of determination or a indicator for talent but a sign of a hiper deflated market and slave labour. Any broke hillbilly can afford that amout of gear with social welfare and thats what we witness with 99% of YT electronica performance artists these days. A utter void of talent, a flood of cringe uninspired self promoting woke hikikomori nerds who think investing 1000 euros for gear makes them a artist. Ever wondered why you see all these new gear presenter where they keep on talking for 15 minute showing of their vast technical know-how while presenting just 1 minute of some kind of drone-sounds?

No matter the amount of YT videos out there, it is a rare thing to find vibrant inspiring house or techno performances these days. Thats why everyone sticks to the timeless music of 1985-1993 of that genre. If I find myself 10 DOPE videos of new bedroom techno/house productions a year its actually a lot.

Behind the art of TRAX, metroplex and UR detroit techno is indead a system, a technique but even more a SPIRIT. Dont expect that insiders spill the beans. You get hints here and there. However, talented artists of any genre dont allow you easily to have a look into their soul. Neither they share the full spectrum of acquired technical knowledge and those who push to the forefront are more than not anything, but talented but most of the time self-promoters aka behringer people. The UR guys didnt seek public attention.

Also there is a flood of guerilla marketing out there by new gear producers pointing you more than not into the wrong direction. Behringer is a expert in these fields.

But than again, even gettin yourself the real thing such a Tr-909 doesnt get you there by itself. I just visited a live performance artists who played me some of his tracks based on a real TR-909 TB-303 and some Roland classics. The tracks where awfully bad and uninspiring. It almost gave me a headache Thus, it is neiter a question of gear.

So...what is the secret of the magic of vintage detroit techno? No way around but you will need to start digging far and deep into that rabbit hole. A process that requires working on your talent, knowledge, cooperation and INSPIRATION in the very first line rather than stacking up gear.

But than again...why is it that all boutique, behringer cringe people dont manage to come up with a dope track out of millions of YT videos? Maybe because these people are cheap on the inside...










...or the magic of simplicity..






Face it...this is you...if you cant spot the difference, its a lost cause...
This is exactly right.

If you don’t have knowledge of what happened before, it’s probably very easy to be satisfied with whatever your friends think is cool or whatever the media tells you is cool.

If you have that knowledge and a discerning ear, finding new captivating house and techno music is very very difficult. It is rare like the Mona Lisa.

Quote:
Originally Posted by jm2c ➡️
FWIW I don't really compare random youtube videos to commercially released music. You will get deluded real fast and start going "its all garbage these days".. yet, when you go to a curated record store, there's never been a problem finding freshly made good music, in any genre.

Youtube myopia is a thing
It’s not just YT. It’s the file purchasing sites. It’s most DJs. There’s an over saturation of mediocre djs playing mediocre music. Which in turn creates more people who want to get into that rat race. Vinyl still the best filter IMO but even that is overloaded with mediocrity. But still the highest hit ratio of any filter.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Analogue Mastering ➡️
The envy is great in this one. I'm in MY zone, doing my iteration of techno. You're free to step in, but if you're rather not, that's fine too.

But hate, frustration, belittling and pre-occupation with what has been, won't get u anywhere.
You just gave us the long winded “they hate us cuz they ain’t us”, which is one of the most flawed of all modern mentalities. Good luck.

Quote:
Originally Posted by bluegreengold ➡️
It's funny that there is so much back and forth here. The OP asked about gear for "Detroit Techno" not "Techno" in the general. Detroit techno, even after all these years is still a "regional style" that has more to do with musical culture than equipment. Certainly there are "classic" instruments/synthesis methods used in it, which the OP already has well covered.

You can't make "Detroit Techno" without being part of that musical community. You can make something inspired by it for sure, but the more one tries to emulate culture from the outside without being a part of it the more it becomes about what that person creating it imagines it to be rather than what it is. That's fine, people are going to make music inspired by what they like, and such a disconnect can lead to interesting developments, but it can't be "Detroit Techno" (Or "Philly Soul" or "HarDCore" or similar, without the creator actually having a social/cultural connection with whatever regional scene is in question.
Sure this is true of regional or local scenes. But even for just good house and techno… there’s a culture for that. It exists in many places but is small, and underground, and not like what most ppl think of when you say “techno and house”. Find that, live it, then you can maybe make more interesting music.
Old 3 weeks ago
  #77
Gear Addict
 
🎧 5 years
hey guys i just emptied all my savings to import a load of french grapes and some barrels, does anyone have any tips on how to make Dom Perignon? thanks in advance
Old 3 weeks ago | Show parent
  #78
Gear Addict
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by NawwwwwSun ➡️
If you have that knowledge and a discerning ear, finding new captivating house and techno music is very very difficult. It is rare like the Mona Lisa.


I stopped going to beatport a long time ago because there are literally mountains full of generic tracks that will give you that dopamine hit when you buy them, but then you'll play them out once and then never touch it again.

Now I just sift through DJ sets and I'll be lucky to hear one really good track.
Old 3 weeks ago | Show parent
  #79
Lives for gear
 
NawwwwwSun's Avatar
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by cheeswolfenstein ➡️
I stopped going to beatport a long time ago because there are literally mountains full of generic tracks that will give you that dopamine hit when you buy them, but then you'll play them out once and then never touch it again.

Now I just sift through DJ sets and I'll be lucky to hear one really good track.
Despite the technical limitations being lifted and access to “any music ever recorded”, there are fewer djs worth listening to now than at any point over the last 25 years I’ve been involved in this shit. How can this be?

The same is true of production. Despite the ease of access using a computer and the ease of YouTube tutorials to teach you how to do “anything”, there is far less good music around. How can this be?

I’ve learned to stop thinking of this as a fallacy and just think of it now as a rule.
Old 3 weeks ago
  #80
Lives for gear
 
Analogue Mastering's Avatar
 
🎧 10 years
As I mentioned before, stop watching tutorials, do your thing, don’t chase ghosts rehashing other people’s work, be the pioneer, rather than trying to copy the pioneer. Unless you want to be a tribute band? There is plenty of groundbreaking stuff, you just need to look better.
Old 3 weeks ago | Show parent
  #81
Quote:
Originally Posted by Analogue Mastering ➡️
I'm not sure if I understand your question?
I have some hardware units, a hardware mixer an outboard sequencer. I program patterns, perform and hit record. There is nothing more to it.
Above examples contain no VST's, DAW or automation, it's all coming out of either the onboard sequencer or Toriaz Squid. There is no mastering or processing involved. Would i like the darker vinyl sound of the eighties, Waves Retro-Fi would get me 90% there without the need of a low end mixer and press dub plates.
Ok, sorry. I just read your name and since this is gearspace I thought that you are maybe a professional mastering engineer offering "analog mastering".

I must admit that I have a different opinion about getting that oldschool sound. 90% with waves retro-fi? Not for me - but that is just what I think. I think I might be too demanding sometimes and quickly loose myself in details. But I also know the difference between a raw 909 kick and a 909 kick from a vinyl record. There is something happening. It´s 3D and makes your mix bigger. Solid. Oomph. But we should also never forget the signal chain.

Just my two cents. With headphones on :D
Old 3 weeks ago | Show parent
  #82
Lives for gear
 
NawwwwwSun's Avatar
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Analogue Mastering ➡️
As I mentioned before, stop watching tutorials, do your thing, don’t chase ghosts rehashing other people’s work, be the pioneer, rather than trying to copy the pioneer. Unless you want to be a tribute band? There is plenty of groundbreaking stuff, you just need to look better.
I literally get paid to fly to other places to play music for people. I would bet I buy and hear more new music than almost anybody on this message board. There is never an abundance of “groundbreaking” music, that’s not how it works. But there is definitely not “plenty” of it right now. There is a paucity of it.
Old 3 weeks ago | Show parent
  #83
Gear Maniac
 
macs672's Avatar
 
🎧 5 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by NawwwwwSun ➡️
I literally get paid to fly to other places to play music for people. I would bet I buy and hear more new music than almost anybody on this message board. There is never an abundance of “groundbreaking” music, that’s not how it works. But there is definitely not “plenty” of it right now. There is a paucity of it.
sh*t man I didn't know paris hilton is on this damn board!...........
........
....
..
.

Detroit Banger:
Old 3 weeks ago | Show parent
  #84
Lives for gear
 
NawwwwwSun's Avatar
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by macs672 ➡️
sh*t man I didn't know paris hilton is on this damn board!...........
........
....
..
.

Detroit Banger:
lol

This was prob my fav detroit jam this year. Just deep techno done right.



Dude is 23 but is son of Big Strick and cousin of Omar S.
Old 3 weeks ago
  #85
Gear Guru
 
Derp's Avatar
 
🎧 10 years
This thread is turning me into a gatekeeping elitist. **** house, this thread is now about TRVE KVLT black metal which can only be made in your mom's basement, assuming your mom lives in Norway and was involved in church burnings. Here, let me show you what to do:



This is exactly what this thread sounds like to me, only sub out black metal for techno and Norway for Detroit.
Old 3 weeks ago
  #86
Gear Maniac
 
🎧 10 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by NawwwwwSun ➡️
This was prob my fav detroit jam this year. Just deep techno done right.
Robert Hood - The Grey Area smokes this imho if you like that ominous foggy Detroit drone/pad vibe. The bar was set really high decades ago.
Old 3 weeks ago | Show parent
  #87
Lives for gear
 
NawwwwwSun's Avatar
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by mangobob ➡️
Robert Hood - The Grey Area smokes this imho if you like that ominous foggy Detroit drone/pad vibe. The bar was set really high decades ago.
I like that you think I am unaware of Robert Hood lol but sure
Old 3 weeks ago
  #88
Lives for gear
 
jm2c's Avatar
 
a noob of a total of 7 posts rants how he cant find good examples of d tech being performed on Youtube, followed by NawwSun's usual rhetoric about most contemporary music not being up to snuff, and suddenly this thread is about gatekeeping?
Old 3 weeks ago | Show parent
  #89
Lives for gear
 
NawwwwwSun's Avatar
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by jm2c ➡️
a noob of a total of 7 posts rants how he cant find good examples of d tech being performed on Youtube, followed by NawwSun's usual rhetoric about most contemporary music not being up to snuff, and suddenly this thread is about gatekeeping?
The truth is in fact my usual rhetoric. This is why it never changes.
Old 3 weeks ago | Show parent
  #90
Gear Addict
There's one thing I find more boring than (most) modern music and that's the relentless moaning about it.

We need less negativity, more knowledge. Some insights into how you can keep things minimal but interesting, for instance
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