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Sequential Take 5
Old 31st August 2021 | Show parent
  #1021
35khz is where all the magic happens.
Old 31st August 2021 | Show parent
  #1022
ValhallaDSP
 
seancostello's Avatar
 
🎧 10 years
Just got a Take 5. Plotting the frequency response (running my interface at 96 KHz). It looks like the VCF can sweep considerably above 20 kHz, but that the A/D in the Take 5 convertor starts to roll off above 18 kHz, with a cutoff somewhere in the 22-24 kHz range.

Sonically, the Take 5 is INCREDIBLE. But I'll have more on this when I've had more than a few hours with it. Gotta learn how it works. A few highlights:

- The filter drive is very nice. Not a huge roar, but definitely adds some growl. Reminds me of my Moog Rogue, although a bit more gentle.

- Square sub oscillator. YES.

- It can sound REALLY CLOSE to my Prophet-10. Like, freakishly close.

- The reverb isn't all that bad. And I'm a bit of a snob about such things.
Old 31st August 2021 | Show parent
  #1023
ValhallaDSP
 
seancostello's Avatar
 
🎧 10 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by rockmanrock ➡️
I think once they put DSP effects on these synths and everyone cranks them up, we're hearing more digital than analogue sound anyway, and that's what people seem to like. Instant Blade Runner or Instant Eno or Instant BOC. It sells synths and makes people happy. Analogue purity curmudgeons like me will probably get something else.
I wouldn't rule out the Take 5. You can switch the effects off. You'll be hearing the sound through a convertor, but then again, the same can be said of every bit of music that wasn't recorded to tape and mastered to vinyl. Switch off the effects, and you have a pretty amazing analog synth.

I'm a fellow analog purity curmudgeon, in the sense that I like my analog synths to sound ANALOG. And then I'll apply my OWN digital effects for Instant Blade Runner or Instant Eno or Instant BoC. The Take 5 will work nicely for me by these criteria.
Old 31st August 2021 | Show parent
  #1024
Lives for gear
 
beau_mckee's Avatar
 
1 Review written
🎧 15 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by seancostello ➡️
- The reverb isn't all that bad. And I'm a bit of a snob about such things.
I'll take that endorsement from you 😎
Old 31st August 2021 | Show parent
  #1025
Lives for gear
 
Synthpark's Avatar
 
2 Reviews written
🎧 10 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kja ➡️
I'm not buying some dang hybrid!!!


Just kidding..
Honestly? I am a bit disappointed to hear the distortion is digital. So Prophet 5/6/10 or nothing for me. A few bastions of pure analog polys left and then it is not even fully analog? The envelopes are as important as the filter.
Old 31st August 2021 | Show parent
  #1026
Lives for gear
 
🎧 10 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by beau_mckee ➡️
Sounds like something that should be accepted as a part of the unit's charm / character. Up to a certain point imo it isn't worth fretting over AD/DA, we are very advanced nowadays in terms of conversion loss
I wholeheartedly agree. It’s analog where it counts (oscillators & filters) and digital where needed for efficiencies. Many top end products (Eventide for one) don’t run an analogue dry path. This doesn’t diminish quality.
Old 31st August 2021 | Show parent
  #1027
Lives for gear
 
Synthpark's Avatar
 
2 Reviews written
🎧 10 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by beau_mckee ➡️
Sounds like something that should be accepted as a part of the unit's charm / character. Up to a certain point imo it isn't worth fretting over AD/DA, we are very advanced nowadays in terms of conversion loss
Very advanced? Then you should take a view on the spectrum analyzer. I did already on mine. And then compare it to a good plugin. You get more aliasing with the hardware in this case, so please no general statements ...
Old 31st August 2021 | Show parent
  #1028
Lives for gear
 
🎧 10 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by seancostello ➡️
I wouldn't rule out the Take 5. You can switch the effects off. You'll be hearing the sound through a convertor, but then again, the same can be said of every bit of music that wasn't recorded to tape and mastered to vinyl. Switch off the effects, and you have a pretty amazing analog synth.

I'm a fellow analog purity curmudgeon, in the sense that I like my analog synths to sound ANALOG. And then I'll apply my OWN digital effects for Instant Blade Runner or Instant Eno or Instant BoC. The Take 5 will work nicely for me by these criteria.
Yes, I'm not completely ruling it out but I think I will be prioritising synths that don't do this. They have got a lot right on this by the looks of things.

As the Prologue video guy says though, there could be some limiting going on. I certainly notice when my digital effects boxes don't do an analogue wet/dry mix, it flattens the sound. The argument that the only difference is the loss of some dog frequency top end ignores what can happen to the rest of the audio.
Old 31st August 2021 | Show parent
  #1029
ValhallaDSP
 
seancostello's Avatar
 
🎧 10 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by Synthpark ➡️
Honestly? I am a bit disappointed to hear the distortion is digital. So Prophet 5/6/10 or nothing for me. A few bastions of pure analog polys left and then it is not even fully analog? The envelopes are as important as the filter.
Prophet 5/6/10 envelopes are digital.
Old 31st August 2021 | Show parent
  #1030
Lives for gear
 
Synthpark's Avatar
 
2 Reviews written
🎧 10 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by seancostello ➡️
Prophet 5/6/10 envelopes are digital.
But the VCA is at least analog.
Old 31st August 2021
  #1031
Deleted b2fa653
Guest
Everything new seems to have digital envs, but they seem better than vst envs for sure...
Old 31st August 2021 | Show parent
  #1032
Lives for gear
 
Synthpark's Avatar
 
2 Reviews written
🎧 10 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by Deleted b2fa653 ➡️
Everything new seems to have digital envs, but they seem better than vst envs for sure...
there is no reason for that, same math, same DSP. On the other hand, I have a Juno 60 here and have yet to find a synth with such envelopes.
Old 31st August 2021
  #1033
Lives for gear
 
gsilbers's Avatar
 
🎧 15 years
Stark difference with behringer and other companies that do more vaporware marketing that run
Into years of no release.

While Here … One day, it’s out. On many stores. A good product.
Old 31st August 2021 | Show parent
  #1034
Lives for gear
 
gsilbers's Avatar
 
🎧 15 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by Deleted b2fa653 ➡️
Everything new seems to have digital envs, but they seem better than vst envs for sure...
Then why not have multi stage envelopes like omnisphere, zebra2, dune3. Such a missed opportunity.


Btw- does the take 5 have looping envelopes like the sub37? I think the rev2 had it? Not sure
Old 31st August 2021 | Show parent
  #1035
Deleted b2fa653
Guest
Quote:
Originally Posted by Synthpark ➡️
there is no reason for that, same math, same DSP. On the other hand, I have a Juno 60 here and have yet to find a synth with such envelopes.
Digital in combination with analog, is not the same. Analog VCA is way diff, and the gain staging in the analog mixer etc. It all makes something the vst cannot touch. In theory it should, but in practice it does not LOL..

DF
Old 31st August 2021
  #1036
Kja
Lives for gear
 
🎧 5 years
Prophet 6 has digital envelopes and they are my favorite I have ever heard, better then any of the analog ones besides vactrols from buchla or bugbrand, or verbos etc.
Old 31st August 2021 | Show parent
  #1037
ValhallaDSP
 
seancostello's Avatar
 
🎧 10 years
Here's a neat trick I learned from one of the presets: To get a modulated reverb sound, use the mod matrix to assign LFO1 (or LFO2) to the reverb predelay. You'll want a slow LFO speed, and a very small amount of depth.
Old 31st August 2021 | Show parent
  #1038
Gear Nut
 
shallow pond's Avatar
 
🎧 10 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by seancostello ➡️
Here's a neat trick I learned from one of the presets: To get a modulated reverb sound, use the mod matrix to assign LFO1 (or LFO2) to the reverb predelay. You'll want a slow LFO speed, and a very small amount of depth.

Sean Costello posts amazing Moog Grandmother examples = Myself buys Grandmother

Sean Costello posts amazing Sequential Take 5 examples = ?

Please Sean, post rubbish examples!
Old 31st August 2021 | Show parent
  #1039
ValhallaDSP
 
seancostello's Avatar
 
🎧 10 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by shallow pond ➡️
Sean Costello posts amazing Moog Grandmother examples = Myself buys Grandmother

Sean Costello posts amazing Sequential Take 5 examples = ?

Please Sean, post rubbish examples!
I might end up posting rubbish examples this time around. I've been tired lately.

But, if they end up rubbish, it ain't the Take 5's fault. I'm able to pretty much exactly duplicate some of my favorite Prophet-10 sounds on the Take 5.
Old 31st August 2021
  #1040
Lives for gear
 
3rdpath's Avatar
 
🎧 15 years
I played one today and was incredibly impressed with the sounds. Very inspiring. I'm shopping for something new...went into Perfect Circuit hoping to love the Matriarch and wound up just drooling over the Take 5. Really rich sounds, very expressive, and the layout was super easy to navigate.

And I'll add, I'm not an OB or P fan. I like those synths but their sound just isn't my cuppa. There's something different happening with the Take 5. You can hear the heritage but it's moved forward instead of backwards.
Old 31st August 2021 | Show parent
  #1041
Gear Addict
 
creativespiral's Avatar
 
🎧 5 years
The key to great analog envelope character, using modern digital envelopes, is really just per-voice-variance to ADR timings -- similar to the variance to tuning, filter and other parameters. Fortunately, that's covered with the vintage knob on Take 5... dial it up and you have instant temporal ADR offsets between voices/envelopes, creating the majority of that classic/vintage character of analog. And if the Vintage Knob isn't dialed in like you want, just hand roll it in the mod matrix with the new "Voice Spread" source routed to Env Attack/Decay/Release -- you can dial in exactly how much envelope variance you want.

http://www.voicecomponentmodeling.com



The other aspect that's really important to envelopes is just the contour/curve between stages. Both digital and analog envelopes are capable of incredible speed (usually less than 3-4milliseconds rise/fall)... so "speed" of Envs is not really an issue... differences are usually imperceptible. But the contour between stages really defines the envelope behavior. You can change it somewhat with recursive modulation, but its a bitch to dial in, and even if you know what you're doing, getting good results is tough.

https://www.presetpatch.com/article/...n-Synthesizers

I hope Sequential will start offering ADR contour shaping as a standard option in their synths going forward. This is something that is really awesome on Deepmind and Moog One. You can alter the contours to be more linear (like classic Junos), or have super snappy convex or extended concave attack stages.... great for dialing in punchy plucks, super slow evolving pads, or anything in between.
Old 31st August 2021 | Show parent
  #1042
ValhallaDSP
 
seancostello's Avatar
 
🎧 10 years
A quick demo. Take 5, using the built in sequencer. Running through a few instances of ValhallaSupermassive.



This is pretty much identical to the sound my Prophet-10 opens up with. I was able to dial it into the Take 5 in a few minutes.
Old 31st August 2021 | Show parent
  #1043
ValhallaDSP
 
seancostello's Avatar
 
🎧 10 years
Q Compensation

I don't know if it has been discussed here, but the SSI 2140 filter in the Take 5 differs from the Prophet-5/10 in a significant way: the Take 5 filter is using Q compensation.

What is Q compensation?

- In your "classic" 4-pole lowpass filter circuits, the resonance or "Q" control works by turning up negative feedback around 4 one-pole filters. This has the side effect of reducing the amplitude of signals below the cutoff. Which means that bass sounds with higher amounts of resonance sound less bassy.

- Q compensation works by increasing the input or output level as the Q is turned up. This results in a more constant level for signals below the cutoff at all resonance levels. It can also result in a higher level for the resonance peak, depending on how it is implemented, which can create clipping.

The SSI 2140 shows 3 different ways of implementing Q compensation. I'm not sure what method Sequential is using, but it sounds GREAT. As you turn up the resonance, the signal level below the cutoff remains the same, and I never hear clipping in the output. This is really useful for bass sounds, as well as emulating an SH-101.
Old 31st August 2021 | Show parent
  #1044
Lives for gear
 
🎧 5 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by seancostello ➡️
A quick demo. Take 5, using the built in sequencer. Running through a few instances of ValhallaSupermassive.



This is pretty much identical to the sound my Prophet-10 opens up with. I was able to dial it into the Take 5 in a few minutes.
Some nice sounds. The tone does indeed remind of the Rev 4, but with more of a "forward" sound in the mix. I think this is what some people are referring to when they describe it as either slightly more aggressive or dynamic, depending on taste.
Old 31st August 2021 | Show parent
  #1045
TJe
Lives for gear
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Synthpark ➡️
Honestly? I am a bit disappointed to hear the distortion is digital. So Prophet 5/6/10 or nothing for me. A few bastions of pure analog polys left and then it is not even fully analog? The envelopes are as important as the filter.
On P6/OB6 the envelopes are FPGA based,not generated by DSP.They are very high resolution,very snappy.If I have something to complain about these synths,there is nothing wrong with the envelopes for me.
Old 31st August 2021 | Show parent
  #1046
Lives for gear
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by creativespiral ➡️
I just wanna see Seq produce a new flagship poly synth: 12-16 voices, with super deep sound engine... Pro 3 voice architecture and mod engine provides the best template.

Time for a heavyweight bout vs. Moog One.
Absolutely. My money is ready. Though I’d totally jump on a 5-octave version of the Take 5.
Old 31st August 2021 | Show parent
  #1047
Lives for gear
 
Synthpark's Avatar
 
2 Reviews written
🎧 10 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by TJe ➡️
On P6/OB6 the envelopes are FPGA based,not generated by DSP.They are very high resolution,very snappy.If I have something to complain about these synths,there is nothing wrong with the envelopes for me.
Please read carefully . I prefer a P5/P6/P10 with their full analog signal path including an analog VCA. If the VCA control input is generated with a high-res. FPGA thats ok for me (although not quite sure if they can reach the last 3-5% of the Juno env). But, more importantly, there is no conversion of the actual signal to digital and back when effects bypassed. That's my personal preference. And the word "DSP" stands both for "digital signal processing" which can be done anywhere, from signal processor to FPGA, as well as for "digital signal processor". By the way, with a modern digital signal processor you should be able to generate snappy envelopes as well, as technology moves on. Otherwise there would be not a single VST with snappy envelopes. But 4-8, even 16x oversampling is supported.

Last edited by Synthpark; 31st August 2021 at 09:28 AM..
Old 31st August 2021
  #1048
Lives for gear
 
Dave_Ionic's Avatar
 
🎧 10 years
Mine is scheduled to arrive thurs. I can’t wait.
Old 31st August 2021 | Show parent
  #1049
Lives for gear
 
Stormchild's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by seancostello ➡️
Sonically, the Take 5 is INCREDIBLE.
It’s almost like these guys know what they’re doing!
Old 31st August 2021 | Show parent
  #1050
Gear Head
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dave_Ionic ➡️
Mine is scheduled to arrive thurs. I can’t wait.
Not due in the UK for a couple of weeks, sadly;-(

Ordered though!
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