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I feel like I'm stuck in a loophole of watching tutorials, have I been wasting my time?
Old 1 week ago | Show parent
  #331
Lives for gear
 
🎧 10 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by NawwwwwSun ➡️
I mean this is exactly what I’m bored of. Competent is how I would describe almost all released music now.

There are literally thousands of competent sounding dance tracks released a day. Who even know how many pop songs etc.

Competent music is played as Muzak when I go grocery shopping. Starbucks used to sell CDs of competent music at the checkout counter. My mom loves competent music.

I’d much much rather hear something INTERESTING and incompetent tbh.
There are millions of incompetent tracks put out into the world every week. Way more than not. Put in a bit of effort man, I'm sure you'll find some of it interesting. .
Old 1 week ago | Show parent
  #332
Lives for gear
 
greggybud's Avatar
 
🎧 15 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by newguy1 ➡️
Great execution of your creative ideas is what takes time.

You either have already spent the time by practicing to the point of extremely high immediate competency (which is what you're paying for when you hire pros), or you're working to achieve extremely high competency as you go at a slower pace, or you're giving up at lower points of execution and calling it the best you can do for where you're at.

Competency and execution time come into play at every stage of the process: the writing and composition, the arrangement, the performances, the production, the engineering, the mixdown, and the master.

So yes, for most people to do all of these at a high level, it takes a whole lot of time. For someone to be immediately competent at all of the above skillsets would take an enormous amount of practice at an enormous amount of skills that would take years upon years to achieve.

I'm not there, for me its 2 tracks a month, max, working full time, requiring a certain amount of surrendering to a lower point of execution than what I know is my highest potential.

Said better than I can explain!

There was a time when I wanted to charge solely for my composition time meaning creation of the basic song. Maybe just piano or guitar for chords plus lyrics and a rough score or rough midi take. Melda used to have a free tool that keeps track of the time you spend on each project...a VST clock, with auto history about project changes, but I can't find it, and it never seemed to work very well anyway.

Melda and other developers have basic VST notepads, but if there is another tool to automatically gauge the time and record history changes that is automatically is engaged when you open any DAW project, I would love to check it out. iirc, I think you had to enter the history part.

EDIT: not Melda, but HOFA and it's not free. The free version didn't help me much.
https://hofa-plugins.de/en/plugins/4u-projecttime/
Old 1 week ago | Show parent
  #333
Gear Maniac
Quote:
Originally Posted by newguy1 ➡️
Great execution of your creative ideas is what takes time.

You either have already spent the time by practicing to the point of extremely high immediate competency (which is what you're paying for when you hire pros), or you're working to achieve extremely high competency as you go at a slower pace, or you're giving up at lower points of execution and calling it the best you can do for where you're at.

Competency and execution time come into play at every stage of the process: the writing and composition, the arrangement, the performances, the production, the engineering, the mixdown, and the master.

So yes, for most people to do all of these at a high level, it takes a whole lot of time. For someone to be immediately competent at all of the above skillsets would take an enormous amount of practice at an enormous amount of skills that would take years upon years to achieve.

I'm not there, for me its 2 tracks a month, max, working full time, requiring a certain amount of surrendering to a lower point of execution than what I know is my highest potential.
I’ll go with that. And the execution time is dependant wholly on coin. When I used to do the gig full time I was a tube factory knocking out a (usually) one fully mixed and mastered track per week. 20 years later, market collapsed, no way to make a living, I make 2 tracks a year. It doesn’t take me 6 months solid work to make a track, maybe 3-4 weeks but nothing gets a constant time input and there isn’t a constant factory output because there’s no point and there are other priorities.
Old 1 week ago | Show parent
  #334
Gear Addict
 
NawwwwwSun's Avatar
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by newguy1 ➡️
There are millions of incompetent tracks put out into the world every week. Way more than not. Put in a bit of effort man, I'm sure you'll find some of it interesting. .
But they’re still a very cleanly recorded “incompetent”. It’s boring. I’ve been djing music publicly, working in record shops, and writing record reviews for more than two decades. You probably don’t know a single person who puts in more effort than I do in finding new music.
Old 1 week ago | Show parent
  #335
Lives for gear
 
🎧 10 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by NawwwwwSun ➡️
But they’re still a very cleanly recorded “incompetent”. It’s boring. I’ve been djing music publicly, working in record shops, and writing record reviews for more than two decades. You probably don’t know a single person who puts in more effort than I do in finding new music.
Yeah sure man, the world is absolutely flooded with incompetent music like never before and it’s all cleanly recorded and boring. It’s all the wrong kind of incompetent, all of it.

Just admit you’re here to complain lol.
Old 1 week ago
  #336
Lives for gear
 
jaxman12's Avatar
 
🎧 5 years
Having a good background in electronic music from the early 80's and 90's, there was a great deal about electonic music I already knew. Owned some very good synths and sequencers. That equipment did not take a long time to learn.

Bought my first DAW about ten years ago, Cakewalk Sonar. This opened up a whole new way of creating music. The possibilities that DAWs opened up were amazing. However, with the new possibilites came a very large learning curve. Starting out was difficult. Not much made sense. Getting the DAW to do what I wanted was extremely frustrating. I was close to having a meltdown on a regular basis. With all of the yelling and cursing at my equipment because I couldn't get it to work, I'm surprised my neighbors didn't call the police to my house. (Yeah, it was bad)

I purchased the book "Sonar Power - The Comprehensive Guide" by Garrigus. Went through the chapters one by one. As I read, I would open the DAW and lay down tracks, using what I was learing over and over until I had it down. Although I did not remember everything I read, I did remember at least what chapter to go to when I needed help. The index in the back of the book helped me identify key works to help find the answers to my questions. It wasn't long until things became second nature and I was no longer frustrated working with DAWs and VSTs.

I switched from Sonar to Cubase. Although they are similar, the way it works is different. The transition is way easier than starting from scratch. I have a yearly subscrition to "Groove3" which is a great video tool for learining. I have dual monitors so I will load up Groove 3 tutorials for Cubase on one screen and have Cubase DAW open on another. Will learn how something works from the tutorial, pause the video, and will then create the same thing in Cubase to make sure I understand what I have learned.

I think it is important to understand that getting involved with a DAW will require a good amount of study until you can get the basics down, learn the shortcuts, and how everything works. If you don't do the work, you will not reap the benefits that a DAW has to offer.

I talked with Tran Whitely who owns Tran Traks some years ago when I was getting back into Electronic Music. We talked about what was available that was different from the 80's and early 90's. He said "Imagine having all the gear you had back then with every bell and whistle that was available to you". "Multiply that by 1,000 and that is what you have now". "There is so much that you will never use, but it is amazing how far things have come and what you can do".

My practice sessions will normally contain:
1) a certain amount of time for tutorials and studying how my gear works
2) finger exercises for dexterity
3) working on performance pieces
4) laying dow tracks.
It doesn't always go exactly like that every session, but overall on a weekly basis it will get done.


Don't expect to learn it all overnight or even in a short time. Be patient, it will come.
Old 1 week ago
  #337
Lives for gear
 
🎧 5 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by Aoharukano ➡️
Hey, I realized I have been watching tutorial after tutorial for years now, and I have barely gotten anything done.

I end up watching all these youtube tutorials, synthesize this way, compress that way, mix like this, and their each 10 to 20 minutes long, I end up wasting my hole day watching them.

I realized, when I first started making music, I just opened my DAW and experimented with everything, I learned how everything worked by experimenting.

I ended up making so many more songs when I first started than I do now, and I honestly feel like all the tutorials I've been watching is why. I never end up using the stuff I learn when I open my daw anyway, I always just try a bunch of different things till I get what I like.

And when I think of my favorite producers in the early days, there was no tutorials to teach them this stuff were there? They learned it all on there on, or with friends.

I find the same thing with music theory too, once you learn the very basics of music theory, synthesizers, eqs/compressors, is there really any need to watch all these
*how to make genre mixing mastering course*
*how to mix like a pro, secert compressor plugin secerts!* videos?

I wrote lots of things down in notepads from videos like these, and articles, butI never open them... I basically have so much notepad stuff written down I could waste my time for months going through it


or I could open up my daw, throw some beats and chords down, add instrumentation and figure out how to make it sound good on the spot.


What do you guys think?
Did you use tutorials when first starting out producing? Or did you just learn the basics and experiment?

Are tutorials actually counter productive?


I have many bookmarks too, I'm considering deleting them all and just start opening my daw everyday instead.
I have watched a lot of utube clips. Mostly about cigar review and synth review. Funnily enough I did not watch utube to learn about audio production techniques. So yes, I have killed time watching youtube, who hasn't. You eventually outgrow it. For audio production I have read books, read stuff online, and most importantly tried things for myself by thinking it through and then applying it. One thing I can say is this: if u are actively thinking, applying/trying, and recording then nothing u have watched will go to waste. But don't just copy what this or that person tells u, some of it sure but also do ur own thinking and take it further.
Old 1 week ago | Show parent
  #338
Gear Maniac
All my posts about nether regions have been deleted as ‘inappropriate’. They are actually very appropriate and childishly amusing. And before ‘system’ deletes this as off topic (is this China?) , have a think what is posted and stop being so literal. So I thought you would like to know I’m still just stood over here examining the bit of fluff I found in my belly button. It’s always blue. Why on earth is that?
Old 1 week ago
  #339
Gear Head
 
I use to work experimental most of the time. Just doing things usually. But I always reflect my actions, summarize my experiences and take every chance to learn about fundamentals if relevant in the context. You should maybe not differ that clearly between doing and learning. That can be pretty much the same.

Just an opinion: experts usually don't make tutorials and the world of audio is much too complex for "linear learning processes".

Reengineering, comparing and generally just listening and being curious n open may help a lot, too. But at the end of the day nothing will probably rather be your experiences that make the noise ☝️
Old 1 week ago
  #340
Gear Maniac
 
🎧 5 years
A couple of years back, I suggested to a friend who wanted to start making music, to just copy as better as he could his favorites tracks arrangements and productions, was EDM so the thing can be done with a computer.
Now he is really good at making EDM, way better than me, also because I don't really like that thing.
Old 1 week ago | Show parent
  #341
Lives for gear
 
cogsy's Avatar
 
🎧 5 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by sds1fs1r ➡️
For audio production I have read books, read stuff online, and most importantly tried things for myself by thinking it through and then applying it. One thing I can say is this: if u are actively thinking, applying/trying, and recording then nothing u have watched will go to waste.
Did you read any books that you would care to share? Anything worth checking out?

I feel like in print, you probably have a better signal to noise ratio. Anyone can start a YouTube channel and post some videos, but I'd think the hurdles in getting a book published would weed out some of the riff raff.
Old 1 week ago | Show parent
  #342
Lives for gear
 
🎧 10 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by romplix ➡️
Just an opinion: experts usually don't make tutorials.
Surprisingly not true, there are quite a few experts sharing their process. By far the most valuable type of tutorial to me, other than needing to look up a specific technique when Im at a sticking point (which can be demonstrated by anyone.)

They listed many of the DnB ones in this thread, for example, by well respected top names in the scene. https://www.dogsonacid.com/threads/r...orials.808163/
Old 1 week ago | Show parent
  #343
Lives for gear
 
greggybud's Avatar
 
🎧 15 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by romplix ➡️
I
Just an opinion: experts usually don't make tutorials
Ever since Napster and the digital age of cheapened music, "experts" have been forced to create new ideas and methods for generating the income that they were once used to with just their professional skill.

Often this is product marketing, and yes, tutorials realizing their own name as a selling point. A few instead have opted to get their real estate license.😁

Many can no longer rely on their core profession for the standard of living they were once used to prior to the digital revolution.

Some hook up with Waves and their name becomes a VST tool.

Mix with the masters isn't a tutorial, but my guess is that income must be pretty lucrative, especially if you aren't currently generating the famous clientele that once established your name.

Why does Dave Pensado do what he does?

Serban might be a holdout, but very few are at that calabar with that income.

It seems you have to be at the top of your game to avoid supplemental income such as tutorials unless you accept a lower income or lifestyle than you once had.
Old 1 week ago | Show parent
  #344
Lives for gear
 
🎧 5 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by cogsy ➡️
Did you read any books that you would care to share? Anything worth checking out?

I feel like in print, you probably have a better signal to noise ratio. Anyone can start a YouTube channel and post some videos, but I'd think the hurdles in getting a book published would weed out some of the riff raff.
Nothing too wild. Actually, I just remembered another great resource: interviews with artists doing similar things as I am. You can gain some cool insights and knowledge that way. The key, with whatever source, is to apply what you read and pick up, to your own situation. Not only will u actually do things, but u will learn better for now and later.
Old 1 week ago | Show parent
  #345
Lives for gear
 
Tomás Mulcahy's Avatar
 
🎧 15 years
This book is really great. Which pleasantly surprised me because I feel the title sounds very "dry". Covers a lot of ground, really well.
https://www.routledge.com/The-Craft-...xoCIcgQAvD_BwE
Old 1 week ago | Show parent
  #346
Gear Head
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by greggybud ➡️
Ever since Napster and the digital age of cheapened music, "experts" have been forced to create new ideas and methods for generating the income that they were once used to with just their professional skill.

Often this is product marketing, and yes, tutorials realizing their own name as a selling point. A few instead have opted to get their real estate license.😁

Many can no longer rely on their core profession for the standard of living they were once used to prior to the digital revolution.

Some hook up with Waves and their name becomes a VST tool.

Mix with the masters isn't a tutorial, but my guess is that income must be pretty lucrative, especially if you aren't currently generating the famous clientele that once established your name.

Why does Dave Pensado do what he does?

Serban might be a holdout, but very few are at that calabar with that income.

It seems you have to be at the top of your game to avoid supplemental income such as tutorials unless you accept a lower income or lifestyle than you once had.
Ok that´s a pont for you. But the term "expert" is still used without a definition and not everything an "expert" says is said by the expert, but rather the salesman.

That´s at least what I think, just as what I´ve said before. I mean there may be some pigs in space and some gold may just look like sh** from time to time, but when I think of the mass (...) of rubbish I have seen over the years I´d draw mainly two conclusions:

- If you really know something you don´t give that knowledge away for free.
- Experts face hard times these days because the people prefer simple truths over long, confusing and dissoluting explanations.

And last but not least: who can still be called an expert today with hundreds of styles and sub-styles that have a completely different comprehesion of basic terms like "music" and lastly disgusting variations in their aestetic measures :|
Old 6 days ago | Show parent
  #347
Lives for gear
 
greggybud's Avatar
 
🎧 15 years
"You don't write a good song a day. You might write 5 good songs a year. If you work every day."...Benny Anderson.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bgNtdNwYmc4

And Benny and Bjorn pretty much kept bankers hours 5 days a week, which I'm guessing with most musicians is quite unusual. I know of a writer in Nashville who works this way. She comes into an actual office space 3 to 6 days a week, meets with others, and starts writing with just a piano and/or guitar. It's quite structured.

Once the song was composed, the actual recording of just one Abba song either at Metronome or Polar often took a month. They were perfectionists. Of course today, they both still find a lot wrong with a good portion of their songs.
Old 6 days ago
  #348
Lives for gear
 
syntonica's Avatar
 
1 Review written
🎧 10 years
What I always did was just wing it if I didn't know what I was doing. Mostly just placeholder stuff, however. Then, one day, while mixing, I decided it was time to get serious about my EQ work. So, I went of to the internet (pre-youtube) and found a couple of articles about EQ, some about drums and frequencies, etc., and read them carefully. Afterwards, I still did things in my usual way, but I was about 5x better than before with many of my doubts dispelled. Then I moved onto the next topic, and then the next. All in my own time, whatever area I felt I was lacking. Yeah. It's a journey.

I do watch a lot of YouTube videos regarding gear and music production, but I find them awfully frustrating as they don't address my actual questions, so I just watch them for entertainment. I find asking pointed questions on fora to be the better solution. Moral of the story is to keep doing first, targeted learning second and then the infotainment needs to take a backseat in third place. Because, in the end, that's what most YouTube videos are about--getting likes, subscribes and the pennies per click.
Old 5 days ago | Show parent
  #349
Lives for gear
 
usedtohaveajuno's Avatar
 
🎧 5 years
A sound engineer I know came up here for evening, I slipped him some dosh, he gave me a quick masterclass on how to EQ properly - it really helped me along I must say

I'd love to go and do a night class in sound engineering, but so much to do, so little time etc!
Old 5 days ago | Show parent
  #350
Here for the gear
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by erikthered ➡️
How does setting a higher number overcome that?
I think my point was that, based on the original post where the idea of an "album" was introduced, it might give a person an actual goal to try to achieve. As opposed to just recording an idea and then walking away from it.

When i first started playing in bands, there was no affordable computer based home studio setup that was practical. We had Tascam Cassette based portastudios, if you could afford them. So, the most common way was to write songs in a garage, play shows, get tight, then book a studio. And someone else would record you.

It's great that we have all of the toys in our own homes now. But, too many of us record while we write. And we try to do it alone. Missing that energy of a loud room and collaboration amongst others. Thats not very inspiring.

Also, its easy to get trapped in a "loop". Write one section of a song, loop it, overdub the other instruments and then walk away from it.

You'll be more apt to complete a project if you have a vision.
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