Quantcast
Why do so many samples of chords exist? - Page 4 - Gearspace.com
The No.1 Website for Pro Audio
Why do so many samples of chords exist?
Old 1 week ago
  #91
Lives for gear
 
🎧 10 years
So people should stop making music If they don’t know how play chords? Really?

Rule of thumb: Vast majority of good musicians cannot write a song. A lot of song writers are not good musicians.

Sampled chords have a sound that cannot be replicated by playing. Also, old sample cd’s have analog prosessing chains that nobody here can afforf to have. No amount of music training will get you THAT sound If you don’t also have THAT gear.
Old 1 week ago | Show parent
  #92
Quote:
Originally Posted by El-Burrito ➡️
So people should stop making music If they don’t know how play chords? Really?

Rule of thumb: Vast majority of good musicians cannot write a song. A lot of song writers are not good musicians.

Sampled chords have a sound that cannot be replicated by playing. Also, old sample cd’s have analog prosessing chains that nobody here can afforf to have. No amount of music training will get you THAT sound If you don’t also have THAT gear.
I'm sorry for nitpicking, but songwriter is a musician by definition (as far as I know in most languages). Even orchestra conductors are musicians Other than that, there's truth in that, I've heard about great players that not only couldn't write a song but also couldn't improvise their parts (because "you shoud only play from notes"). But there are others, who can. With my previous band we found very good cellist and violinist. Both girls were classically trained and boy, they were good at improvising. They helped to flesh out lots of tracks.
Old 1 week ago | Show parent
  #93
Lives for gear
 
StarfishMusic's Avatar
 
🎧 10 years
Though I'm not the most gifted player, I've been playing keys starting at age 3 so 43 years. I'm totally bored with the idea of sampling something when I can create pretty much whatever I want until you get to Chopin, etc. Still though, having the right vibe for what you're going for is not always going to happen from just playing. It's the production that's sampled and then of course your arrangement.

The reason those cool samples of chords and phrases sound the way they do is what's on them. There's so many possibilities of what's on a sound by the time it was sampled. Could be a tape machine, an s950, a Mackie 8 buss or a Neve or both, a preamp, a compressor, a tube Eq, vinyl, an old dat machine, you name it. You're not just sampling the chord but all that stuff too.

What I do when I feel like I want that vibe is to distress "samples" of my own playing. A little old DAC emulation here, a little tape magic there, some waves abbey road vinyl there. I actually try and simulate the whole chain of what I think my "sample" would be.

I usually start with a preamp or console emu, go to "tape" then compression, maybe more EQ, then another tape to simulate the mixdown that what would then be handed to the mastering engineer. Then another compressor and Eq to simulate the mastering and go to another tape to represent the mastering engineer's final output. From there it goes to Abbey Road Vinyl which is pretty good actually. Then it goes to a DAC plugin like Inphonik rx950 or D16 Decimort 2 to simulate the sampling. My own mix is on top of all that stuff as if it came to me that way. It's alot of work sure but it's fun thinking about the stages that recording would have gone through if it was a sample.

I don't really care how authentic it all is, or if sounds all the way like a "real" sample or not because excuse my french, **** genres! I hate them and feel they're the antithesis of creativity. A bunch of people with no cajones trying to sound like each other because of their own insecurity. Having a vibe influenced from other artists is fine, but straight up trying so hard to fit in is just lame. If you rock it you rock it. If you don't, ok at least you were yourself. There's alot of talk here about not understanding cultures and scenes and this and that BS.

A club I used to go to in the 90s would play your so called "rave culture" stuff. You know what song they'd play in the middle of it all? Blister in the Sun from the Violent Femmes. Not a remix, no four on the floor beat, not a single electronic sound in it. They'd play it every night. The crowd would go wild, sing every note, and find a way to dance to it. What genre is the Violent Femmes, or that song in particular? Heard another song like it? What genre is Hendrix, the Beatles, Skrillex, Aphex Twin, Nirvana, NWA, the Beasties, System of a Down, Pearl Jam, does anybody really sound like any of them without trying to really hard afterward? How famous are those afterward people?

I know I combined two subjects here, sampling and genres, but the idea was originally sampling something old to create a NEW thing. People sample a chord cause it sounds cool and its a direct way to get that sound, period. It's like any other instrument, can be creative or boring. I do it another way because i'm not bound to finding existing material. It just came up in the context of comparing people to other people. I can't help but thinking of how lame it is when people make rules for music. If a trained muso rocks it at a failed drum and bass attempt and makes something new, that's pretty cool in my eyes. It's cooler to me than the classical stuff he might be copying and cooler than the D&B he doesnt know how to make. At least it's different. I hate music by numbers. Make what you feel, don't be a wimp.

Last edited by StarfishMusic; 1 week ago at 10:03 PM..
Old 1 week ago | Show parent
  #94
Gear Head
 
Totally agree with what you say. The only reason genres were brought up was to do with trying to explain firstly where sampled chords came from/came about and then why they proliferated. The music comes first, it gets categorised by others and like it or lump it, in dance music it’s pretty damn important. The people who get big are the ones who tend to pump out the same sound over and over. Those that bring in other influences, cross fertilise etc will get some coverage and a certain respect among their peers but they don’t usually have the same success. Why? Because people are sheep. This is a very mature thing isn’t it, it’s been around 35 years, it’s not the wild Wild West of ‘anything goes’ anymore. The media has seen to that. Is Rock any different? Not really.

The club scene became very ‘homogenous’ I.e. full of one genre nights and that was because the promoters found they couldn’t get people to attend nights that played all sorts anymore. It didn’t used to be like that but as the algorithm dictates, if all you ever watch on YouTube are right wing news broadcasts, all YouTube will offer up for your viewing delight is right wing news broadcasts.

It then got used because of people banging on about ‘trained musicians’, And the theory zealots ( there’s a Bjork track where there’s a juxtaposition of Locrian and Mixolydian (I think, off the top of my head) did they mean to do it or are you just using your preconceptions about theory to describe something that wasn’t intentional and implying some kind of preconceived notion by the artist? Same album (I think), they used a one finger wavestation preset so are they one finger monkeys or genius’s?) and the usual snobbery about ‘learning to play an instrument blah blah blah’ like anyone is interested. Dictionary.com definition 2 “a contrivance or musical apparatus for producing musical sounds’, which sounds like a DAW to me.

The ‘outlier’ tune dropped in the middle of a set...yeah, what was the rest of the set though? That’s a DJ that knows his crowd and knows what he’s doing. If he’d’ ever just dropped that all night he’d have no floor.

The posts are getting longer because the discussion became more than ‘why chord samples’. Which has been answered now by about 10 people 😊
Old 1 week ago | Show parent
  #95
Lives for gear
 
StarfishMusic's Avatar
 
🎧 10 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by nunrgguy ➡️
Totally agree with what you say. The only reason genres were brought up was to do with trying to explain firstly where sampled chords came from/came about and then why they proliferated. The music comes first, it gets categorised by others and like it or lump it, in dance music it’s pretty damn important. The people who get big are the ones who tend to pump out the same sound over and over. Those that bring in other influences, cross fertilise etc will get some coverage and a certain respect among their peers but they don’t usually have the same success. Why? Because people are sheep. This is a very mature thing isn’t it, it’s been around 35 years, it’s not the wild Wild West of ‘anything goes’ anymore. The media has seen to that. Is Rock any different? Not really.

The club scene became very ‘homogenous’ I.e. full of one genre nights and that was because the promoters found they couldn’t get people to attend nights that played all sorts anymore. It didn’t used to be like that but as the algorithm dictates, if all you ever watch on YouTube are right wing news broadcasts, all YouTube will offer up for your viewing delight is right wing news broadcasts.

It then got used because of people banging on about ‘trained musicians’, And the theory zealots ( there’s a Bjork track where there’s a juxtaposition of Locrian and Mixolydian (I think, off the top of my head) did they mean to do it or are you just using your preconceptions about theory to describe something that wasn’t intentional and implying some kind of preconceived notion by the artist? Same album (I think), they used a one finger wavestation preset so are they one finger monkeys or genius’s?) and the usual snobbery about ‘learning to play an instrument blah blah blah’ like anyone is interested. Dictionary.com definition 2 “a contrivance or musical apparatus for producing musical sounds’, which sounds like a DAW to me.

The ‘outlier’ tune dropped in the middle of a set...yeah, what was the rest of the set though? That’s a DJ that knows his crowd and knows what he’s doing. If he’d’ ever just dropped that all night he’d have no floor.

The posts are getting longer because the discussion became more than ‘why chord samples’. Which has been answered now by about 10 people 😊
The people ARE sheep and that's because they've been bred to not have an open mind. Listen to any hip hop lately? Any triplets? that's right, ALL triplets. The same exact flow over and over. That's not what hip hop used to be. I liked Gang Starr. I liked Digital Underground. Of course I liked Easy-E. I liked them at the same time. None of those artists sound the same as each other at all. Even the rappers in NWA all sounded different.

I really think all the homogenousness these days originally came from record labels forcing it down peoples throats. The genres have been tightening for decades now. I mean U2 is "rock" Kiss is "Rock" Van Halen is "rock" guitars, drums, vocals and the occasional keyboard but couldn't sound any more different. Those groups are all old, I'm old, I get it. I just mean the same person would listen to Van Halen and U2, but then it becomes not that anymore.

Record companies just went for sheepification and it worked. That's changing due to internet music wild west of youtube though. Some interesting songs break through there or at least get heard.
Old 1 week ago | Show parent
  #96
Gear Addict
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by StarfishMusic ➡️
The people ARE sheep and that's because they've been bred to not have an open mind. Listen to any hip hop lately? Any triplets? that's right, ALL triplets. The same exact flow over and over. That's not what hip hop used to be. I liked Gang Starr. I liked Digital Underground. Of course I liked Easy-E. I liked them at the same time. None of those artists sound the same as each other at all. Even the rappers in NWA all sounded different.

I really think all the homogenousness these days originally came from record labels forcing it down peoples throats. The genres have been tightening for decades now. I mean U2 is "rock" Kiss is "Rock" Van Halen is "rock" guitars, drums, vocals and the occasional keyboard but couldn't sound any more different. Those groups are all old, I'm old, I get it. I just mean the same person would listen to Van Halen and U2, but then it becomes not that anymore.

Record companies just went for sheepification and it worked. That's changing due to internet music wild west of youtube though. Some interesting songs break through there or at least get heard.
this is the part where someone says 'JESUS ****ING CHRIST' really loud
Old 1 week ago | Show parent
  #97
Gear Maniac
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by El-Burrito ➡️
So people should stop making music If they don’t know how play chords? Really?
Not at all !

but why aren't we going down the route of encouraging people to learn something, or creating programs that guide people into being able to construct a chord

All the great artists I know that never had any music training at least experimented or constructed something themselves and then got better.

But if you're just dragging stuff around and using auto generated music programs then how can you take any credit for what materialises even if it ends up sounding great .
Old 1 week ago | Show parent
  #98
Gear Head
 
People can learn whatever they want. There’s a glut of information all over the internet, of all places!
There are programs that help with harmonisation, finding chords, experimenting with chord structures. I’ve got about 5 of em stuck here on my phone. Go download Suggester. ‘That’s cheating’. No, it isn’t. It’s just a list of chords that will fit with a scale (like we used to have on paper) only now you can touch the chord and hear it and decide if it makes the noise you want it to. Hearing chords and making decisions based on what you hear rather than what someone has TOLD you you must play? What is this witchcraft?

But none of the above really has much of anything to do with sampled chords in a pack.

Silly notion, it’s a bit like saying ‘but why doesn’t the trombone player learn all of the harmonic partials which each note he plays comprises of, is it laziness, lack of skill, or does he just have no talent?’. Or is it none of these because he doesn’t need to know, and even if he did it wouldn’t make blind bit of difference to whether if he plays E after G if it elicits an emotional response in you or not?
Old 1 week ago | Show parent
  #99
Lives for gear
 
The thing is it helps if they want to learn. For some the first stage could be learning how to learn. There are many ways to skin a cat! And some ways are fun. It helps if they want to.

Quote:
Originally Posted by nunrgguy ➡️
People can learn whatever they want. There’s a glut of information all over the internet, of all places!
There are programs that help with harmonisation, finding chords, experimenting with chord structures. I’ve got about 5 of em stuck here on my phone. Go download Suggester. ‘That’s cheating’. No, it isn’t. It’s just a list of chords that will fit with a scale (like we used to have on paper) only now you can touch the chord and hear it and decide if it makes the noise you want it to. Hearing chords and making decisions based on what you hear rather than what someone has TOLD you you must play? What is this witchcraft?

But none of the above really has much of anything to do with sampled chords in a pack.

Silly notion, it’s a bit like saying ‘but why doesn’t the trombone player learn all of the harmonic partials which each note he plays comprises of, is it laziness, lack of skill, or does he just have no talent?’. Or is it none of these because he doesn’t need to know, and even if he did it wouldn’t make blind bit of difference to whether if he plays E after G if it elicits an emotional response in you or not?
Old 1 week ago | Show parent
  #100
Lives for gear
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by El-Burrito ➡️
...Sampled chords have a sound that cannot be replicated by playing.
TL;DR at bottom!
That's why I brought up Casiochords earlier. I really like that tracker-esque sampled chord sound in electronic music, so I've been trying to copy it with different tools since I was a kid. I couldn't achieve it just by playing chords on a polyphonic keyboard. And I can play any chord I can reach - it's not so hard, and worth learning, but "sampled chords" is a different sound, and

to me, it's just as iconic a sound as bagpipes, accordion, pan flute, banjo, kazoo or any other folk instrument whose existence seems to annoy some people.

Another general answer to the thread question:
Best of both worlds: you can stretch a sampled chord across a keyboard (or multisample if you're posh) and play it as an instrument. I remember finding presets that had perfect 5ths, flat 7ths, glued onto the root, or warbling up to a 3rd and back, and actually laughing, and then trying it out, and then laughing again because I knew how to play it! It forces your hand, a little, so if anyone's feeling blocked, they could try a patch like this... or even with analog oscillators tuned at intervals, which is similar, but has a different sound and feel when you play it.

TL;DR - So, there is another reason for chord samples: you can play the samples the same way you would with any instrument that plays a chord for each note, or like tuning a 3 osc synth to intervals. But, since you're using a sample-based architecture, you start with a chord sample instead of 3 separate oscillators or 3 tuned reeds, or triple row of strings etc. Of course it'll sound different - if it didn't, you might as well use your minimoog or hurdy gurdy or wtv.

That's in addition to other uses: trackers and triggering chord samples while making a music with a pad controller, which were the first 2 uses of chord samples that came to mind. "Playable sample" is another.

STL;DR - You can use chords just like any other sound.
Old 1 week ago
  #101
Lives for gear
 
SkyWriter's Avatar
 
🎧 10 years
What passes for music, musicianship, and telent have changed from when I was a kid.

Everything changes meaning over time.

To me, if you can't play and you use a computer; you're not a musician, you're a music designer.
Old 1 week ago
  #102
Lives for gear
 
WozNYC's Avatar
 
🎧 5 years
Certain individuals in this thread are assuming people that use chord samples can't play.
I've been a session keyboardist and producer for 30+ years. I've put out lots of records and
played on lots of other artists' records. I sometimes use chord samples in house music just because they sound awesome.
I played all the keys on this by hand but guitar chord samples were also used. Doesn't make me any less of a musician.

Old 1 week ago | Show parent
  #103
Quote:
Originally Posted by PuggaMahone ➡️

TL;DR - So, there is another reason for chord samples: you can play the samples the same way you would with any instrument that plays a chord for each note, or like tuning a 3 osc synth to intervals. But, since you're using a sample-based architecture, you start with a chord sample instead of 3 separate oscillators or 3 tuned reeds, or triple row of strings etc. Of course it'll sound different - if it didn't, you might as well use your minimoog or hurdy gurdy or wtv.
*facepalm.jpg*
You know I'd actually never thought of it that way.....
that is to say that there's the idea of looking at it much the same way one would traditional harp tuning or what have you.

While such does lead to the exact sort of "parallel" play that's been mentioned numerous times in this thread, for some reason my mind just didn't make the jump to connecting such to the likeness other instruments that bare locked key scale tunings of the sort.

In any case, suppose I can see a base generalized simple approach with a general carried "here's a point".
Old 1 week ago
  #104
Gear Addict
 
not all, but MOST of the music is very simple that uses these chords. As shown with YES some real musicians use them creatively or for effect.

THe key here is that rap and edm (i hate the term but even tradtional house/techno and sub groups) are very simple. VERY SIMPLE.

Much like the rock and popular acoustic and/or electric music most of the musicians are talking about here.

Playing blues at any level is nothing compared to a symphony. SO you too are playing some easy ass music by those standards. Just like the current loop based music is simplistic compared to playing some blues/rock/country.

things change, and of course being a musician and understanding theory is gonna help you with making simplistic edm but at the same time, its simple, its rhythmic basic pattern type stuff 99% of the time. IT doesn't need or want a guitar or piano solo. it doesnt need complex chord changes or a bridge. DOes some of it have solos, bridges or chords, yes, but you have to remeber the origins of electronic music, musique concrete, etc. Did some musicians bring in synths to use in a musical context? yeah, but they werent electronic musicians. Actual electronic musicians werent trying to be clapton or the beatles or elo, they just were making weird ass bloops and bleeps, soundscapes, sonic textures and such.

So you cant look at stuff like chords on a synth like some sort of simplistic dumbed down music. ITs just different. YOu want to paint a portrait, some people wanna smear paint on a canvas. others want to make pop art and take a picture of soup cans.

I'm not saying you have to like it, but if you dont respect others art, why would you expect them to respect yours? at a certain level you playing blues or rock based blues is the simplest ass music you could play. does it take a bit of nature talent and dexterity? sure but its not some sort of calculus formula

ill leave you with this from 30+ years ago. its got chords. its simple. its music. good day

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iUwfOOdg4eE
Old 1 week ago
  #105
Gear Addict
 
not all, but MOST of the music is very simple that uses these chords. As shown with YES some real musicians use them creatively or for effect.

THe key here is that rap and edm (i hate the term but even tradtional house/techno and sub groups) are very simple. VERY SIMPLE.

Much like the rock and popular acoustic and/or electric music most of the musicians are talking about here.

Playing blues at any level is nothing compared to a symphony. SO you too are playing some easy ass music by those standards. Just like the current loop based music is simplistic compared to playing some blues/rock/country.

things change, and of course being a musician and understanding theory is gonna help you with making simplistic edm but at the same time, its simple, its rhythmic basic pattern type stuff 99% of the time. IT doesn't need or want a guitar or piano solo. it doesnt need complex chord changes or a bridge. DOes some of it have solos, bridges or chords, yes, but you have to remeber the origins of electronic music, musique concrete, etc. Did some musicians bring in synths to use in a musical context? yeah, but they werent electronic musicians. Actual electronic musicians werent trying to be clapton or the beatles or elo, they just were making weird ass bloops and bleeps, soundscapes, sonic textures and such.

So you cant look at stuff like chords on a synth like some sort of simplistic dumbed down music. ITs just different. YOu want to paint a portrait, some people wanna smear paint on a canvas. others want to make pop art and take a picture of soup cans.

I'm not saying you have to like it, but if you dont respect others art, why would you expect them to respect yours? at a certain level you playing blues or rock based blues is the simplest ass music you could play. does it take a bit of nature talent and dexterity? sure but its not some sort of calculus formula

ill leave you with this from 30+ years ago. its got chords. its simple. its music. good day

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iUwfOOdg4eE
Old 1 week ago
  #106
Lives for gear
 
Monotremata's Avatar
And lets not forget, aside from the 2 or 3 nerds in your crowd that show up specifically to look at those 'complex chord inversions' and your 'blistering pentatonic runs', nobody on the floor gives a damn about what keys or chords or scales you're using. As long as they enjoy themselves, they don't go much farther into it than that. They're going to tell you they either love it, or your track sucks. They dont care about why YOU think your song is so awesome with its 26 modulations and revolving modal lines, they either had a good time or you made them leave the bar.
Old 1 week ago | Show parent
  #107
Lives for gear
 
Gringo Starr's Avatar
 
🎧 10 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by Monotremata ➡️
And lets not forget, aside from the 2 or 3 nerds in your crowd that show up specifically to look at those 'complex chord inversions' and your 'blistering pentatonic runs', nobody on the floor gives a damn about what keys or chords or scales you're using. As long as they enjoy themselves, they don't go much farther into it than that. They're going to tell you they either love it, or your track sucks. They dont care about why YOU think your song is so awesome with its 26 modulations and revolving modal lines, they either had a good time or you made them leave the bar.
There's truth to this but good electronic music is not determined by whether or not it can make a room full of people dance. Not all electronic music is dance music. I don't think people go to clubs or raves hoping to hear clever compositions anyways.
Old 1 week ago | Show parent
  #108
Lives for gear
 
🎧 5 years
why are there so many chords?
Old 1 week ago | Show parent
  #109
Gear Head
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gringo Starr ➡️
There's truth to this but good electronic music is not determined by whether or not it can make a room full of people dance. Not all electronic music is dance music. I don't think people go to clubs or raves hoping to hear clever compositions anyways.
And there is why you’re completely missing the point re chord samples I feel. They came predominantly from the dance music scene and were sold as a product to be used within the dance music scene. If you choose to go and use them for something else that’s great, that’s how things evolve but their primary purpose? Dance music.
Old 1 week ago | Show parent
  #110
Lives for gear
 
hcppp's Avatar
Even worse....Too Many Notes!






Quote:
Originally Posted by ibtl ➡️
why are there so many chords?
Old 1 week ago | Show parent
  #111
Lives for gear
 
🎧 10 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by SkyWriter ➡️
What passes for music, musicianship, and telent have changed from when I was a kid.

Everything changes meaning over time.

To me, if you can't play and you use a computer; you're not a musician, you're a music designer.
Musician is the comprehensive term for anyone who makes music.

Instrumentalist is the term for someone who plays an instrument.

"Music designer" is definitely in the "to me" category.
Old 1 week ago | Show parent
  #112
Lives for gear
 
Monotremata's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by ibtl ➡️
why are there so many chords?
Blame all them wacky jazz cigarettes the kids smoked in the 50s/60s..
Old 1 week ago | Show parent
  #113
Lives for gear
 
Gringo Starr's Avatar
 
🎧 10 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by nunrgguy ➡️
And there is why you’re completely missing the point re chord samples I feel.
You keep hanging on to the idea that I'm missing the point. Is it possible that you're missing the point? The OP didn't ask why there are so many chord samples for electronic dance music. Chord samples are all over the place with many intended uses. Many sub-genres of electronic music exist that aren't dance music. I'm not sure why you keep getting hung up on the idea that chord samples and this topic strictly applies to club/rave type music. Especially when the OP mentions nothing of it.
Old 1 week ago | Show parent
  #114
Gear Head
 
Because that’s where they mainly originally came from as a marketed product, that’s why they proliferated and that’s what their predominant use is, the market diversified afterwards.
Does that answer the OPs question: yes.

Has the OP specified what sample packs he’s referring to:no.
So nothing else can be inferred or implied other than to answer the question with “because there’s a market for it” and provide that background to it.
Old 1 week ago
  #115
Here for the gear
 
CivoLee's Avatar
I don't see a problem with it so long as the musicians who assemble their songs from samples/loops don't try to peg those who play instruments as living in the past. I haven't encountered that personally, but there are all kinds of people in this world...
📝 Reply

Similar Threads

Thread / Thread Starter Replies / Views Last Post
replies: 1830 views: 236212
Avatar for Don Solaris
Don Solaris 1 week ago
replies: 154 views: 17113
Avatar for jlgrimes11
jlgrimes11 18th January 2021
replies: 28764 views: 3046770
Avatar for dasoundjunkie
dasoundjunkie 1 day ago
Post Reply

Welcome to the Gearspace Pro Audio Community!

Registration benefits include:
  • The ability to reply to and create new discussions
  • Access to members-only giveaways & competitions
  • Interact with VIP industry experts in our guest Q&As
  • Access to members-only sub forum discussions
  • Access to members-only Chat Room
  • Get INSTANT ACCESS to the world's best private pro audio Classifieds for only USD $20/year
  • Promote your eBay auctions and Reverb.com listings for free
  • Remove this message!
You need an account to post a reply. Create a username and password below and an account will be created and your post entered.


 
 
Slide to join now Processing…

Forum Jump
Forum Jump