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New Sequential Prophet 5 and 10
Old 1 week ago | Show parent
  #8161
Lives for gear
 
21 Reviews written
🎧 10 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by hebex ➡️
Some work with sustain while pressing the "release hold" button, some don´t. For example factory preset 114 won´t work either way.

Anybody, please?
What's the value of the release knobs on Factory 114? If the release knobs are set to something fast, even when controlling release on the sustain pedal, you won't get a long release. You'd have to turn the RELEASE button off, lengthen the release times on Filter/Amp envelopes, then use the sustain pedal to hear it. The manual explains the behavior.
Old 1 week ago | Show parent
  #8162
Gear Nut
 
robotecho's Avatar
 
🎧 5 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by hebex ➡️
Some work with sustain while pressing the "release hold" button, some don´t. For example factory preset 114 won´t work either way.

Anybody, please?
There's a global for "release / sustain", change that. It defaults to a non-standard sustain pedal behaviour that is true to the original synth, but you can switch it to the standard behaviour.
Old 1 week ago | Show parent
  #8163
Kja
Lives for gear
Quote:
Originally Posted by rpmedia ➡️
Got it, but are you sure it doesn't still step doing this? You can do it on the Rev 4 also, but not very effectively as the LFO doesn't have key retrigger, but it still seems to step when using the mod wheel to change filter cutoff via a slow LFO on the Rev 4.

On the OB-6 using white noise with the resonance right up I think it still steps using the mod wheel, I'd be surprised if the P6 is different.

On the P6 you can have the filter self resonate with no noise or oscillators up and move the wheel very slowly to test if it is stepping.
I don't have an ob6, but i can tell a huge difference, with the knob you hear very obvious stepping and with the mod wheel i hear none of it.. That's all i can tell.. If there is stepping it is so tiny steps i can't hear them.. I'm very suprised a ob6 would step... That just doesn't make sense.. The resonance on ob6 is already very hard to hear.. People say they can't hear the stepping on ob6 with even the knobs since there is no resonance to make it obvious.. Do you hear stepping in the sequential J3PO tutorial video?
Old 1 week ago | Show parent
  #8164
Lives for gear
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kja ➡️
Do you hear stepping in the sequential J3PO tutorial video?
He never moves the wheel slowly (at least I didn't see that when I skipped through it) - the filter only steps with slow movements, with fast movements it is smoothed. You won't hear stepping on any of them with quick movements - from the P6 thread:

Quote:
Originally Posted by cbmd ➡️
When the filter knobs are turned slowly, they step in semitones. This is helpful when, for example, you are setting the filter to key track in self resonance. If, however, the knob is swept and/or the filter cutoff is modulated, there will be no stepping.
On the Rev 4 I can hear the stepping when using the wheel to change the amount of modulation, although not when the modulation is left alone to do it, which surprised me (i.e. that it did step from the wheel). On the OB6 I had to use white noise with the resonance cranked to hear it, but it sounded stepped to me also when changing the amount slowly, but again not when left alone. Maybe my mod wheel technique is stepped

Last edited by rpmedia; 1 week ago at 08:47 AM.. Reason: clarity
Old 1 week ago | Show parent
  #8165
Kja
Lives for gear
Quote:
Originally Posted by rpmedia ➡️
He never moves the wheel slowly (at least I didn't see that when I skipped through it) - the filter only steps with slow movements, with fast movements it is smoothed. You won't hear stepping on any of them with quick movements - from the P6 thread:



On the Rev 4 I can hear the stepping when using the wheel to change the amount of modulation, although not when the modulation is left alone to do it, which surprised me (i.e. that it did step from the wheel). On the OB6 I had to use white noise with the resonance cranked to hear it, but it sounded stepped to me also when changing the amount slowly, but again not when left alone. Maybe my mod wheel technique is stepped
I messed around with the filter by itself last night after you said that and it is weird... It definitely doesnt step like the knob does, but i can see what your saying. .. It always lands on a note and you can go step to step if you go painfully slow, but even a pretty slow movement causes it to all slew together without stepping, while with the filter knob it pretty much steps unless you go very fast..
So i guess it does technically step because it is a digital control.. But nothing like the knob with obvious stepping and it has much higher resolution or something... It goes away with basically any kind of movement so it is good enough for me, but then im not a huge fan of resonate sweeps to begin with and even the filter actual knob stepping never really bothered me.
Old 1 week ago | Show parent
  #8166
Gear Maniac
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by hebex ➡️
Some work with sustain while pressing the "release hold" button, some don´t. For example factory preset 114 won´t work either way.

Anybody, please?
Does the sustain not function such that it holds the sustain level set by the envelopes’ sustain stage knobs? If so, a patch that has the sustain knob at zero will simply fade to silence as set by the decay knobs.

You could easily verify this by using the dot in the display to check the knobs’ saved values. Turn the sustain knobs and watch when the dot appears in the display indicating you have reached the saved value.
Old 1 week ago | Show parent
  #8167
Lives for gear
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kja ➡️
I messed around with the filter by itself last night after you said that and it is weird... It definitely doesnt step like the knob does, but i can see what your saying. .. It always lands on a note and you can go step to step if you go painfully slow, but even a pretty slow movement causes it to all slew together without stepping, while with the filter knob it pretty much steps unless you go very fast..
So i guess it does technically step because it is a digital control.. But nothing like the knob with obvious stepping and it has much higher resolution or something... It goes away with basically any kind of movement so it is good enough for me, but then im not a huge fan of resonate sweeps to begin with and even the filter actual knob stepping never really bothered me.
Interesting... on the Rev 4 I think it sounds the same whether from the wheel or from the knob. On the OB-6 I find it so hard to hear anyway, it is difficult to say whether it is different on the wheel or cutoff knob - it seemed to be easier to hear stepping from the wheel.

Like you I've not found it a problem although some don't like it. On the OB-6, I didn't even notice it was stepped until it was pointed out, and usually the resonance hitting harmonics in the sound is much more obvious than the filter stepping.
Old 1 week ago | Show parent
  #8168
Gear Maniac
 
🎧 5 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by TrenchRun ➡️

3/ am i correct that you cannot individually adjust PWM and vibrato levels ... when messing with it it seemed that to get both just right on an osc i couldn’t. “proper” Pwm resulted in too much vibrato.
You're right. Many pages back in this thread, a few people thought I was crazy when mentioning this. This is one of the few annoying things about the P5 (and P6).
Old 1 week ago | Show parent
  #8169
Kja
Lives for gear
Quote:
Originally Posted by rpmedia ➡️
Interesting... on the Rev 4 I think it sounds the same whether from the wheel or from the knob. On the OB-6 I find it so hard to hear anyway, it is difficult to say whether it is different on the wheel or cutoff knob - it seemed to be easier to hear stepping from the wheel.

Like you I've not found it a problem although some don't like it. On the OB-6, I didn't even notice it was stepped until it was pointed out, and usually the resonance hitting harmonics in the sound is much more obvious than the filter stepping.
I don't know if you care, but another thing i found really strange is that when you set up p6 like the sequential video, for some reason you have a much wider range of the cutoff then with the actual cutoff knob.. That really baffles me, why not have the full range from the knob? Idk... But maybe that has something to do with it, maybe that's why the resolution is much greater fron the wheel?
Old 1 week ago | Show parent
  #8170
Lives for gear
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kja ➡️
I don't know if you care, but another thing i found really strange is that when you set up p6 like the sequential video, for some reason you have a much wider range of the cutoff then with the actual cutoff knob.. That really baffles me, why not have the full range from the knob? Idk... But maybe that has something to do with it, maybe that's why the resolution is much greater fron the wheel?
If it is like the Rev4 and old prophets, the full filter range is not covered by the cutoff knob, it is covered by cutoff + filter envelope which may explain this.

So to open the filter fully on a sustained note you need cutoff max, envelope amount max, filter envelope sustain max. While perhaps the wheel-LFO does cover the whole filter?

The OB-6 seems different, perhaps since based on TO designs - here the cutoff does seem to go all the way - at least to my old ears - I'd have to get the 'scope out to check these days.

On the OB-6 the filter envelope amount can be huge - it feels like the whole range of the filter is covered when maxed out, unlike the Rev 4.
Old 1 week ago | Show parent
  #8171
Gear Nut
 
FixMy106's Avatar
 
🎧 10 years
Another annoying little thing I just found out is that when you set unison to 2 voices, the Detune value does nothing.

Is this a design decision by Sequential? Why let us detune 3 voices but not 2?

I also have some wider issues I'd like to talk about regarding the voice allocation system in general but I'll keep that for another post.
Old 1 week ago | Show parent
  #8172
Lives for gear
Quote:
Originally Posted by FixMy106 ➡️
Another annoying little thing I just found out is that when you set unison to 2 voices, the Detune value does nothing.

Is this a design decision by Sequential? Why let us detune 3 voices but not 2?
I think someone reported it here before, not sure if anyone has lodged it with Sequential. Seems like a bug to me.


Quote:
Originally Posted by FixMy106 ➡️
I also have some wider issues I'd like to talk about regarding the voice allocation system in general but I'll keep that for another post.
1.5.2 allows you use the traditional P5/P10 allocation method or change to round robin, like the P6/OB-6 and others, which some prefer.

The odd thing to me is that poly unison mode always seems to behave like round robin, whether you're in P5 or rr mode. This may be a bug also.

Last edited by rpmedia; 1 week ago at 02:22 PM.. Reason: clarity
Old 1 week ago
  #8173
Here for the gear
 
Just to share the excitement of my latest arrival!:
Attached Thumbnails
New Sequential Prophet 5 and 10-e006a655-89fc-44a6-81b2-ac1ea515117a.jpg  
Old 1 week ago | Show parent
  #8174
Kja
Lives for gear
Quote:
Originally Posted by rpmedia ➡️
If it is like the Rev4 and old prophets, the full filter range is not covered by the cutoff knob, it is covered by cutoff + filter envelope which may explain this.

So to open the filter fully on a sustained note you need cutoff max, envelope amount max, filter envelope sustain max. While perhaps the wheel-LFO does cover the whole filter?

The OB-6 seems different, perhaps since based on TO designs - here the cutoff does seem to go all the way - at least to my old ears - I'd have to get the 'scope out to check these days.

On the OB-6 the filter envelope amount can be huge - it feels like the whole range of the filter is covered when maxed out, unlike the Rev 4.
But if that was truly the reason for less stepping with the mod wheel, then wouldn't the p5 have less stepping with the mod wheel too? Unless maybe the lfo doesn't go as far on the p5 as the p6.. Other then that i can't think why that would be.. Unless just for some reason the mod wheel has better resolution then all the knobs and the mod wheel of p5.. Which i doubt because you would think they run similar control on all their synth's.. I don't see why it would be different unless it's some vintage limitation thing and they want it historically correct.. Which seems dumb.. Idk.. I guess some things we just won't ever know really.. Unless they come in and say why it's like that.
Old 1 week ago
  #8175
Kja
Lives for gear
Anyway though.. On p6 when you use the mod wheel trick, there is basically no stepping of the cutoff as long as you move at a slow but steady pace. If you move it by the centimeter you hear stepping.
Old 1 week ago | Show parent
  #8176
Lives for gear
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kja ➡️
But if that was truly the reason for less stepping with the mod wheel, then wouldn't the p5 have less stepping with the mod wheel too? Unless maybe the lfo doesn't go as far on the p5 as the p6.. Other then that i can't think why that would be.. Unless just for some reason the mod wheel has better resolution then all the knobs and the mod wheel of p5.. Which i doubt because you would think they run similar control on all their synth's.. I don't see why it would be different unless it's some vintage limitation thing and they want it historically correct.. Which seems dumb.. Idk.. I guess some things we just won't ever know really.. Unless they come in and say why it's like that.
The Rev 4 mod wheel with a square wave LFO doesn't move the filter as much as the filter cutoff does, so that clearly makes it different to the P6 which you've found moves more than the cutoff - it could at least in part explain the different nature of the stepping on the two.

I suspect it is this way on the Rev 4 to be aligned with the OG.
Old 1 week ago | Show parent
  #8177
Kja
Lives for gear
Quote:
Originally Posted by rpmedia ➡️
The Rev 4 mod wheel with a square wave LFO doesn't move the filter as much as the filter cutoff does, so that clearly makes it different to the P6 which you've found moves more than the cutoff - it could at least in part explain the different nature of the stepping on the two.

I suspect it is this way on the Rev 4 to be aligned with the OG.
Sorry i had forgot you said that.. Will that makes sense then. Like we said earlier, i don't really think the stepping is that bad.. I mean, who is still doing resonate filter sweeps for breakdowns like this is 2003 or something? Who cares.. P5 is a beast and one of the best sounding synth's i have ever heard.. I actually find the stepping really useful to me.. They have such great filters it's awesome to be able to find all these delicious spots where the resonance sits with perfect notes plus like cbmd said, you can tune the filter quicker..
Old 1 week ago | Show parent
  #8178
Lives for gear
 
21 Reviews written
🎧 10 years
Someone else mentioned recently that their Rev 4 will occasionally crash when left unattended. Or at least, stop making sound. Had that happen to me on Monday. Left it on, but unattended, for like an hour or more, came back to it and it looked fine but no sound. A quick power cycle and everything was back to normal.

Anyone know if this is on the Sequential radar? I can certainly report it but if others have already, won't bother. It's only happened like two or three times here, each time after being left alone for an hour or more, but it's definitely real.
Old 1 week ago
  #8179
Gear Head
 
1 Review written
🎧 5 years
I've been experiencing a bug on my P10 module when using an external sequencer. Whenever I stop a sequence, the P10 will get stuck playing a note until I reboot it. Doesn't matter if I turn the sequencer off or change a patch on the P10 - the stuck note remains. I'm using a Prophet X sending arp/seq out via MIDI. Not sure if it's a P10 or PX problem. Hope this can be fixed!
Old 1 week ago | Show parent
  #8180
Gear Nut
 
robotecho's Avatar
 
🎧 5 years
I answered a question from @ TrenchRun about PWM and frequency modulation with the suggestion that you can use Osc B to control the PWM leaving the LFO free to dial in pitch modulation.

Then it was an itch I had to scratch! So for reference and for fun, here's some sounds using that technique.

Damn this synth sounds good! Obligatory loads of reverb warning.

1st is pretty much the most basic version of exactly what I described, Osc A square wave with PWM from Osc B. Osc B is actually perfect for this because you can scale it with the keyboard, resulting in perfect sounding PWM from top to bottom. Then just a little pitch modulation from the LFO.

2nd is the same patch with poly unison, detuned to 3.

3rd is just adding filter modulation from Osc b, generates lots of movement because it is scaled across the keyboard.
Attached Files

OSCBPWM.mp3 (4.23 MB, 1410 views)


Last edited by robotecho; 1 week ago at 03:51 AM..
Old 1 week ago | Show parent
  #8181
Gear Nut
 
robotecho's Avatar
 
🎧 5 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by dewaldian ➡️
I've been experiencing a bug on my P10 module when using an external sequencer. Whenever I stop a sequence, the P10 will get stuck playing a note until I reboot it. Doesn't matter if I turn the sequencer off or change a patch on the P10 - the stuck note remains. I'm using a Prophet X sending arp/seq out via MIDI. Not sure if it's a P10 or PX problem. Hope this can be fixed!
Is this over USB or DIN cables? Can you inspect the midi data with MIDI OX or something? Check if the note off event is getting sent from the PX. What happens if you try to play the P10 by midi after this happens? Is it one midi event behind? i.e., does the stuck note stop when you hit a key, then the next note starts when you lift the key?
Old 1 week ago | Show parent
  #8182
Gear Head
 
1 Review written
🎧 5 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by robotecho ➡️
Is this over USB or DIN cables? Can you inspect the midi data with MIDI OX or something? Check if the note off event is getting sent from the PX. What happens if you try to play the P10 by midi after this happens? Is it one midi event behind? i.e., does the stuck note stop when you hit a key, then the next note starts when you lift the key?
This is over MIDI DIN cables. I don't have MIDI OX, but let me describe the issue in some more detail. If I play a sequence from the PX and then hit STOP while a note is playing, that note continues on ad-infinitum on the P10. The issue doesn't seem to occur if I hit STOP when the PX's sequencer is in between notes. If I try to play the P10 by MIDI after the note gets stuck, the same note plays until the P10 runs out of voices. So, I could stop the note by playing 10 keys at once via voice allocation. Importantly, the same note continues playing even when I unplug the MIDI IN from the rear of the P10, which makes me think this is not a PX issue. The same note also continues when I change patches or change the release to minimum on the P10. Hope that helps
Old 1 week ago | Show parent
  #8183
Gear Nut
 
robotecho's Avatar
 
🎧 5 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by dewaldian ➡️
This is over MIDI DIN cables. I don't have MIDI OX, but let me describe the issue in some more detail. If I play a sequence from the PX and then hit STOP while a note is playing, that note continues on ad-infinitum on the P10. The issue doesn't seem to occur if I hit STOP when the PX's sequencer is in between notes. If I try to play the P10 by MIDI after the note gets stuck, the same note plays until the P10 runs out of voices. So, I could stop the note by playing 10 keys at once via voice allocation. Importantly, the same note continues playing even when I unplug the MIDI IN from the rear of the P10, which makes me think this is not a PX issue. The same note also continues when I change patches or change the release to minimum on the P10. Hope that helps
I'm going to say I think that's expected behaviour. You aren't sending a note off event to the P10.

If you hit the key for the hung note on the PX I expect it will stop, because the PX will send a note on event that will do nothing, followed by a note off event that will stop the note playing.

The PX isn't continuing to send the note, it just isn't sending the message to stop the note.
Old 1 week ago | Show parent
  #8184
Here for the gear
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by dewaldian ➡️
This is over MIDI DIN cables. I don't have MIDI OX, but let me describe the issue in some more detail. If I play a sequence from the PX and then hit STOP while a note is playing, that note continues on ad-infinitum on the P10. The issue doesn't seem to occur if I hit STOP when the PX's sequencer is in between notes. If I try to play the P10 by MIDI after the note gets stuck, the same note plays until the P10 runs out of voices. So, I could stop the note by playing 10 keys at once via voice allocation. Importantly, the same note continues playing even when I unplug the MIDI IN from the rear of the P10, which makes me think this is not a PX issue. The same note also continues when I change patches or change the release to minimum on the P10. Hope that helps
To avoid this some sequencers send a ‚all note off‘ when you stop. Perhaps you can set the PX to send this. My old AMT8 patchbay has a button to send this to end all ringing notes.
Old 1 week ago | Show parent
  #8185
Gear Maniac
 
TrenchRun's Avatar
 
🎧 10 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by robotecho ➡️
I answered a question from @ TrenchRun about PWM and frequency modulation with the suggestion that you can use Osc B to control the PWM leaving the LFO free to dial in pitch modulation.

Then it was an itch I had to scratch! So for reference and for fun, here's some sounds using that technique.

Damn this synth sounds good! Obligatory loads of reverb warning.

1st is pretty much the most basic version of exactly what I described, Osc A square wave with PWM from Osc B. Osc B is actually perfect for this because you can scale it with the keyboard, resulting in perfect sounding PWM from top to bottom. Then just a little pitch modulation from the LFO.

2nd is the same patch with poly unison, detuned to 3.

3rd is just adding filter modulation from Osc b, generates lots of movement because it is scaled across the keyboard.
that’s really nice. so thats all just a single oscillator?
Old 1 week ago
  #8186
Gear Maniac
 
TrenchRun's Avatar
 
🎧 10 years
are there examples of poly unison ?

i would think this would be the big difference between the 5 &10? poly unison on the 10 becomes like 2 stacked 5s? (how does that work? 20 simultaneous oscillators with 1 note, 4 with 5 notes?)

but with the 5 you only really get a couple stacks i guess.
Old 1 week ago | Show parent
  #8187
Gear Nut
 
robotecho's Avatar
 
🎧 5 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by TrenchRun ➡️
that’s really nice. so thats all just a single oscillator?
Yep! The second part uses poly unison so that's two per key.


Quote:
Originally Posted by TrenchRun ➡️
are there examples of poly unison ?

i would think this would be the big difference between the 5 &10?
In my opinion poly unison is the definitive reason to go for the 10. It is certainly useable on the 5 and even if you play 3 note chords you get the five voices so it still sounds huge. But a full 5 keys of poly unison would be the bomb, no doubt about it.

Quote:
Originally Posted by TrenchRun ➡️
poly unison on the 10 becomes like 2 stacked 5s? (how does that work? 20 simultaneous oscillators with 1 note, 4 with 5 notes?)

but with the 5 you only really get a couple stacks i guess.
Poly unison assigns 2 voices per key and you can detune them. For normal unison you can only play one note and you can stack as many of the available voices as you choose, and detune them.

Last edited by robotecho; 1 week ago at 02:05 PM..
Old 1 week ago | Show parent
  #8188
Lives for gear
 
21 Reviews written
🎧 10 years
robotecho already answered about the Poly Unison voice assignment, but let me just say: damn does Poly Unison sound cool. It's like having two polyphonic Prophet-5's with variable detuning and sounds crazy lush. Great add on by Sequential!
Old 1 week ago
  #8189
Lives for gear
 
Analogue Mastering's Avatar
 
🎧 10 years
Melodic Techno: Prophet-10 in action, together with Moog One, Mother-32 and a bit of Repro-5
Attached Files

RMX_1.mp3 (6.62 MB, 820 views)

Old 1 week ago | Show parent
  #8190
Gear Maniac
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by FixMy106 ➡️
Another annoying little thing I just found out is that when you set unison to 2 voices, the Detune value does nothing.

Is this a design decision by Sequential? Why let us detune 3 voices but not 2?

I also have some wider issues I'd like to talk about regarding the voice allocation system in general but I'll keep that for another post.
That’s a bug that I reported a few weeks ago and it’s now on the fix list.
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