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Will Behringer actually fix the MIDI Sync of the Rd-8? (SOLVED)
Old 27th April 2020 | Show parent
  #151
Gear Nut
 
🎧 5 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ludar ➡️
I actually have found a solution to start RD-8 perfectly in time. At first we have to make clear for everyone sync input is similar to midi, it needs that procedure you mentioned (start stop start stop..) to get timing right. However if you leave ground out from the sync signal it receives only clock and no start/stop signal (I made this by using ts cable instead of trs). Now when you play start from RD-8 manually it goes to mode waiting for clock, and when you play start from master device it will start now correctly (this is similar how tape sync works). Obviously you lose possibility to start pattern again but at least this is somewhat workaround to start it once when slaved. I have no knowledge if you should use clock without ground signal and if it can damage your other gear (I dont care if RD-8 gets damaged, I just want the damn thing synced).

Edit: while writing this I got idea just leave the start out not the ground, going to test that..
I've found that analog sync is slightly tighter than MIDI, at least on the older firmware. I send both clock and start / stop, through ts cable. Haven't found disabling start/stop to be helpful, its worse for me if its not there. Look into the different ways manufacturers send clock and start/stop, make sure you are getting the right connections happening on tip, ring and sleeve, between what your device is sending and what the rd-8 expects to see.

With the newest firmware, it seems like both analog sync and MIDI are performing better for me. But its tough to be completely objective because I didn't take measured recordings before and after updating. I just know currently the drift on start is not a huge issue for me. Overall jitter from note to note is definitely still not great.

This is all internal sequencer, external clock, I can't speak to how it responds to MIDI for individual notes.
Old 27th April 2020 | Show parent
  #152
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javd007's Avatar
 
🎧 5 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dutchman_s Gold ➡️
I've found that analog sync is slightly tighter than MIDI, at least on the older firmware. I send both clock and start / stop, through ts cable. Haven't found disabling start/stop to be helpful, its worse for me if its not there. Look into the different ways manufacturers send clock and start/stop, make sure you are getting the right connections happening on tip, ring and sleeve, between what your device is sending and what the rd-8 expects to see.

With the newest firmware, it seems like both analog sync and MIDI are performing better for me. But its tough to be completely objective because I didn't take measured recordings before and after updating. I just know currently the drift on start is not a huge issue for me. Overall jitter from note to note is definitely still not great.

This is all internal sequencer, external clock, I can't speak to how it responds to MIDI for individual notes.
Thank you for the suggestion. Triggering via note sending to notes is the man way I work, and it works horribly, although placed back fine, you just can't hear the note as you hit the MPC Lives pads. I went and bought a TR-8s, but I might keep the RD-8 because its so cheap, maybe one day it will be fixed.
Old 27th April 2020
  #153
Lives for gear
 
the same xxxxsticks endlessly posting in many threads.
signal to noise is off the scale

take you personal issues and lockdown fever elsewhere

ive already got many on ignore
but it looks like more need to be added.

btw where are the mods.
Old 27th April 2020 | Show parent
  #154
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becks bolero's Avatar
 
🎧 5 years
I presume any problems will be worked out eventually, aren't they releasing a 909 clone soon? that will probably be the same OS & similar hardware, so any fixes will ( surely?) apply to RD8 firmware too.

good info in this thread though, I was not aware of those issues

and javd007, those pictures are CLEARLY photoshopped!!




( just joking around )
Old 27th April 2020 | Show parent
  #155
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RetroFunk's Avatar
 
🎧 5 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by javd007 ➡️
Oh I know . It’s Instant Thriller album. I want to install a midi kit in it but am nervous to ship it .
I recenty was up close and personal with the Forat Linn midi kit, it's good. The code has actually been integrated into the main OS, that takes skill and prior knowldge of the inner workings of the Linn, very clever.

It is a fiddly install though, there are some wires needing soldering to the CPU chip which is a delicate procedure, drilling holes for the midi sockets can be awkward. CPU soldering skills and woodworking tend not to go together in the same workshop! Have a think, buy the kit and have a local Tech fit the circuit board, and woodworker drill the 3 holes for the midi sockets.

The Forat midi kit adds some nice features like sysex memory dump, I tested many of the features and they all work perfectly (take note Beh.Mcr.). I didn't get chance to test sync accuracy etc. but I was feeling rather confident it was all done correctly.

It's good members discuss and list their sync problems, it all helps us get a measure of the RD8's shortcomings, more reason for Beh. to open source. I didn't know Korg had started that, interesting. It must be the way forward. In a way the RD8 is good platform for DIY development.
Old 27th April 2020 | Show parent
  #156
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redloheb's Avatar
 
🎧 5 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by pppch ➡️
@ Reptil pls. change the thread title or move it, thx
Agree here. @ Reptil
Old 27th April 2020 | Show parent
  #157
Lives for gear
 
🎧 10 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by javd007 ➡️
Is Behringer really just going to abandon this unfinished product ? Can’t be . It doesn’t trigger notes or sync properly and it’s a drum machine in 2020. This is like a cruel joke. Hey we’re making a Tr-808 that’s new and awesome and sounds great.

Oh but it won’t sync to midi or trigger from
Your sequencer.

Haha
It would be so much more easier to accept if it had bad sounds too, I feel you
Old 27th April 2020 | Show parent
  #158
Gear Guru
 
Jamie munro's Avatar
 
🎧 5 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mastropiero ➡️
He has sometimes responded to other people.

Of course, you shouldn't expect that from a CEO, but you wouldn't expect either other CEOs posted on GS and FB on a regular basis
Agreed about FB eTC maybe he is a cloned bot after all?

And yes I've had a few exchanges with him on GS in pm, ideas, feedback among other things so yeah he does reply to people and usually quite fast IME but I doubt he would respond about the SW request, I perhaps worded it wrong
Old 27th April 2020 | Show parent
  #159
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Mastropiero's Avatar
 
🎧 5 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jamie munro ➡️
Agreed about FB eTC maybe he is a cloned bot after all?

And yes I've had a few exchanges with him on GS in pm, ideas, feedback among other things so yeah he does reply to people and usually quite fast IME but I doubt he would respond about the SW request, I perhaps worded it wrong
Of course, he not responding to my request is what I expected in the end, but I still tried since I had nothing to lose.

Anyway, releasing the BCR2000 firmware would be a smart move because it's now a legacy product and there are already some reverse engineering projects related to the BCR/BCF family:

http://willem.engen.nl/projects/bc2000-dev/

http://www.bwalk.com.au/BC2k/BC2k.html

Zaquencer - step sequencer firmware for BCR2000
Old 27th April 2020 | Show parent
  #160
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Mastropiero's Avatar
 
🎧 5 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by RetroFunk ➡️
I didn't know Korg had started that, interesting. It must be the way forward. In a way the RD8 is good platform for DIY development.
They aren't releasing the source code of Kronos, that's quite obvious, but they have created some SDK and open-source developments:

https://github.com/korginc/

https://cdm.link/2013/12/littlebits-...usic-projects/
Old 27th April 2020
  #161
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RetroFunk's Avatar
 
🎧 5 years
@ Mastropiero : perfect, this is the future annex. RD8 and SDK is nice. I'm impressed when home users "open the box" and start coding up. I've not really bothered with Korg's Little bits are they seem to be under the control of Korg, buy this, buy that and still not have anything more than an "educational kit". Willem and Zaq. now that's impressive.
Old 27th April 2020
  #162
Moderator
 
Reptil's Avatar
 
2 Reviews written
🎧 15 years
< moderator message - where are the mods? well.. the moderator also has to sleep. because otherwise he'd go nuts. Let's not change this thread into something other than sorting this problem in this drum machine (if possible), and not an opportunity to take a dump on the company that makes it. That will only result in fights, and other nonsense. I'll ban pppch from the thread, obviously this doesn't work. So, please keep this on topic? I've edited the title of the thread, more precise, less provocative/emotional. Thank you. >

Last edited by Reptil; 27th April 2020 at 01:09 PM..
Old 27th April 2020 | Show parent
  #163
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Mastropiero's Avatar
 
🎧 5 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by RetroFunk ➡️
buy this, buy that and still not have anything more than an "educational kit". Willem and Zaq. now that's impressive.
It is impressive but has been a lot of unnecessary work. It could've been open-source once the product is discontinued and it's not profitable anymore.

Skilled users would have ended up creating these upgrades anyway, without having to deal with a closed platform and thus focusing on what really matters: new exciting features and developments (and more fun!).

I hope that most manufacturers start reconsidering open-source as a smart business strategy (yeah, and that includes @ Uli Behringer ).
Old 27th April 2020 | Show parent
  #164
Deleted 0cbbc73
Guest
Let’s hope they fix the 101 portamento and the oddy ‘s hpf etc.
Old 27th April 2020
  #165
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S_A_P's Avatar
I get the impression here that building a retro synth is more than just pressing up a bunch of circuit boards and copying the circuits. There is actually a significant amount of effort required to build a modern firmware...

Hmmm. Interesting...
Old 27th April 2020 | Show parent
  #166
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Mastropiero's Avatar
 
🎧 5 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by S_A_P ➡️
I get the impression here that building a retro synth is more than just pressing up a bunch of circuit boards and copying the circuits. There is actually a significant amount of effort required to build a modern firmware...

Hmmm. Interesting...
The firmware takes probably more than 50% of the work. And calibration 40% more.
Old 27th April 2020 | Show parent
  #167
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S_A_P's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mastropiero ➡️
The firmware takes probably more than 50% of the work. And calibration 40% more.
I was being facetious :D Its the same software fallacy/mistake made over and over
Old 28th April 2020
  #168
Gear Guru
 
Bignatius's Avatar
Nvm
Old 28th April 2020
  #169
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Crazy4Jazz's Avatar
 
🎧 5 years
Maybe time to return this box for something else.
Old 28th April 2020 | Show parent
  #170
Gear Guru
 
Bignatius's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mastropiero ➡️
You aren't either.

(My ignore list is about to burst )
That one in particular has been on mine a while.
Old 28th April 2020 | Show parent
  #171
Lives for gear
 
🎧 10 years
re

Quote:
Originally Posted by Crazy4Jazz ➡️
Maybe time to return this box for something else.

yea i just sold mine. its not up to what i need nor is it really a good clone imo.
Old 28th April 2020 | Show parent
  #172
Lives for gear
 
If they fix, in firmware for a future product, any of the issues people have with the RD-8, then will they be more likely to port the upgrade if the RD-8 stays "in the news"?

I know they said they're gonna remake a million synths and drum machines, but how many can they do at the same time? I think they'll have to rotate models through. Aren't sales highest in the beginning, and then they taper off anyway? At least 2 more drum machines should be almost here, with more in the pipeline. You'd think that people could work on firmware from home. But are they spread too thin to pay attention to the RD-8? Are there enough potential customers on the fence, for more work to make sense? Would this influence enough potential customers for future Behringer drum machines, or will they buy either way?
Old 28th April 2020 | Show parent
  #173
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becks bolero's Avatar
 
🎧 5 years
I just ordered one. I'm betting they will patch the firmware when the 909 comes out
Old 5th May 2020 | Show parent
  #174
Gear Maniac
 
rmri's Avatar
 
1 Review written
🎧 5 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by becks bolero ➡️
I just ordered one. I'm betting they will patch the firmware when the 909 comes out
Syncing to an external MIDI clock seems like the most basic function of any drum machine, it's just depressing that after literally years of teasing how fast the developer team abandoned the updates.

I really hope they will come back to it with the 909 release, but even then it just doesn't inspire confidence.
Old 5th May 2020 | Show parent
  #175
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becks bolero's Avatar
 
🎧 5 years
I agree

lately I have been using CV to control clocks instead of MIDI, wherever I can. RD8 has a CV clock in/out

I do hope they fix the MIDI though
Old 5th May 2020 | Show parent
  #176
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weirdfishee's Avatar
 
🎧 10 years
I am hoping its sorted with a patch update when rd9 comes out too. I also hope whoever came up with the system interface /programming decisions is kept well away from the rd9. For all the reasons stated in this thread.
Old 29th July 2020 | Show parent
  #177
Lives for gear
 
🎧 10 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by weirdfishee ➡️
I am hoping its sorted with a patch update when rd9 comes out too. I also hope whoever came up with the system interface /programming decisions is kept well away from the rd9. For all the reasons stated in this thread.
I don't hope anymore, it's been 6 months since last update so its safe to say they leave it die alone
Old 29th July 2020 | Show parent
  #178
Lives for gear
 
🎧 5 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ludar ➡️
I don't hope anymore, it's been 6 months since last update so its safe to say they leave it die alone
and if they'd just stuck to copying the original, with dinsync, and adding the midi at the end, like a midi-modded 808 ... it could take a while to get to the root of the problem, if they are still planning on fixing it. what have they had to say about it?
Old 29th July 2020 | Show parent
  #179
Lives for gear
 
🎧 10 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by ibtl ➡️
and if they'd just stuck to copying the original, with dinsync, and adding the midi at the end, like a midi-modded 808 ... it could take a while to get to the root of the problem, if they are still planning on fixing it. what have they had to say about it?
..that they are fixing it..
Old 29th July 2020 | Show parent
  #180
Lives for gear
 
🎧 5 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ludar ➡️
..that they are fixing it..
well, possibly that involves many exploratory rewrites of firmware, followed by testing each time. maybe it isn't just firmware. what about the issue with accent vs. velocity?
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