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Osmose by Expressive E
Old 3 weeks ago | Show parent
  #1741
Lives for gear
 
Lady Gaia's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by EvilDragon ➡️
How would anyone here know, nobody has one?
Not yet, but soon-ish. Probably. At least those in the "influencer" bucket who might be preparing the usual onslaught of video coverage. It's not a bad thing to have a backlog of inquiries from people who are curious about how the Osmose works in practice.

The only real clues we have so far are from people who we've seen playing at Superbooth who seemed to have a pretty immediate connection, even for short percussive sounds. I wouldn't expect actual measured latency from early impressions, but the degree to which the attack of sounds can be shaped by initial key travel suggests that it's fast compared to most of our usual reference points.

It's particularly noteworthy that sounds are generally triggered so early in key travel, which is a huge step up from most keyboards today. If you assume you need to determine velocity before triggering a sound at all, you're now waiting long enough for a key to hit that second sensor before you do anything at all. That suggests that latency gets worse at lower velocities in a conventional keyboard, and that the Osmose is much less susceptible to this effect.
Old 3 weeks ago
  #1742
Gear Addict
 
SawneyBean's Avatar
 
The longer the pre-warning the better for me personally. It has to be definite of course, which over the last year, it hasn't been. Understandably so though. Monies a lot tighter than when I put my pre-order in and some synths will need to be sold to make up the money for the Osmose.
Old 3 weeks ago | Show parent
  #1743
Gear Addict
 
🎧 10 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by uhoh7 ➡️
For those who still actually play this is the biggest thing since the pianoforte came out. But some will just wait for the plug-in .
AFAIK plug-in is already available...
Old 3 weeks ago | Show parent
  #1744
Gear Guru
 
zerocrossing's Avatar
 
🎧 10 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lady Gaia ➡️
Not yet, but soon-ish. Probably. At least those in the "influencer" bucket who might be preparing the usual onslaught of video coverage. It's not a bad thing to have a backlog of inquiries from people who are curious about how the Osmose works in practice.

The only real clues we have so far are from people who we've seen playing at Superbooth who seemed to have a pretty immediate connection, even for short percussive sounds. I wouldn't expect actual measured latency from early impressions, but the degree to which the attack of sounds can be shaped by initial key travel suggests that it's fast compared to most of our usual reference points.

It's particularly noteworthy that sounds are generally triggered so early in key travel, which is a huge step up from most keyboards today. If you assume you need to determine velocity before triggering a sound at all, you're now waiting long enough for a key to hit that second sensor before you do anything at all. That suggests that latency gets worse at lower velocities in a conventional keyboard, and that the Osmose is much less susceptible to this effect.
That’s why I have to laugh at people who complain about small amounts of latency. Humans are really good at developing proprioception to compensate for small delays, as long as they’re uniform.
Old 3 weeks ago | Show parent
  #1745
Gear Guru
 
zerocrossing's Avatar
 
🎧 10 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by TOYZ ➡️
Osmose key feature: Pressure-weighted Portamento

They patented this feature? WTF? From the description and how it sounds like in the video it seems a verbatim copy of my idea that I emailed them about in great detail in February 2020. I even included a download link to my own implementation of this idea that I tested with a CME X-key.

In addition, I originally posted about this exact same idea way back in 2013 over at KRV:

https://www.kvraudio.com/forum/viewt...62595#p5462595

Here's the email I sent to Osmose:





What the heck Osmose? I gave you an idea and I was all fine with you using and implementing it, but then you patent it without involving me? Not cool. Just so you know, you cannot patent things if there is prior art, and there clearly is, even as far back as 2013.
I don’t think you patent an idea, you patent an implementation of an idea. For instance, Apple can patent a multi touch screen, even though the idea of such a thing has been floating around sci-fi for decades.
Old 3 weeks ago | Show parent
  #1746
Lives for gear
 
draig's Avatar
 
🎧 5 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by lllubi ➡️
What´s the latency of it? Think Osmose has the potential to influence the music industry largely.
The latency should be insignificant since the synth engine is internal.
Old 3 weeks ago | Show parent
  #1747
Lives for gear
 
draig's Avatar
 
🎧 5 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lady Gaia ➡️
It's particularly noteworthy that sounds are generally triggered so early in key travel, which is a huge step up from most keyboards today.
Basically, just touching the key on the Osmose and it is already triggered.

My keyboards are all approx at 50% of the downward travel of the key when it triggers (not including AT)
Old 3 weeks ago | Show parent
  #1748
Lives for gear
 
🎧 15 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by EvilDragon ➡️
How would anyone here know, nobody has one?
No beta testers around or some guys who had the pleasure to play one already?
Wonder how the pitch bends work in unison with guitars or brass instruments on stage.
Old 3 weeks ago
  #1749
Lives for gear
 
tjontheroad's Avatar
In a couple days, this thread and my pre-order will be 2 years old...

Old 2 weeks ago | Show parent
  #1750
Lives for gear
 
markwalkerjr's Avatar
 
🎧 5 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by tjontheroad ➡️
In a couple days, this thread and my pre-order will be 2 years old...

Well if they invested the money this crazy market shouldn't at least help them cover the component cost increases
Old 2 weeks ago | Show parent
  #1751
Gear Maniac
 
🎧 5 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by tjontheroad ➡️
In a couple days, this thread and my pre-order will be 2 years old...

My anniversary is in 2 weeks, still in the first discount batch but I’m surprised I didn’t order sooner, I guess I was a different person back then :/ Out of boredom I was gonna play the order number game but the numbers look like just numbers for the whole store.

Funny to see “summer 2020” in the original email ;(
Old 2 weeks ago | Show parent
  #1752
Lives for gear
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by lllubi ➡️
What´s the latency of it? Think Osmose has the potential to influence the music industry largely.
Coming from the Continuum:
If it shares the same Hall Effect sensors as the Continuum, I think it scans the surface about 3x per millisecond, so that would be the lower limit of its time resolution. Then it's a matter of how does it use that data? With the Continuum, there can be tons of xyz data from each note right from the start (usually the most critical part of each note), so Haken had to figure out how to parse all that data in the most musically useful way within the constraints of the DSPs. With the Osmose, you're only dealing with a stream of pressure (z) data, and a single x value at note-on, coming from the keyboard, until you get to the point where you can wiggle the keys and then transition to the "y" zone. So, I don't see any reason for EE not to use the maximum possible "z" resolution during that part of the key travel. Besides that limit, there’s got to be some processor latency for the calculations and to output the audio, but it really isn't much.

I don't know whether the low latency for a digital synth will change the music industry. They say Nonlinear Labs C15 has really low latency too, and it has a normal keyboard, and it's been around for a while now. I think the whole "your fingers are the envelopes" aspect is just the bees knees, and more people would give it a shot in a sort of normal keyboard rather than a "fingerboard"... that might change the industry somewhat, but it's not appropriate for everything. I think people would rather play ragtime on a piano keyboard, for example. I might be wrong about that, you never know. I also think the final retail price will have to be quite a bit higher than they anticipated, so there will still be much more demand for digital pianos and regular keyboard synths. At least the huge delay should give them time to test durability, for the prototypes, and to find any weak spots that may need to be improved.
Old 2 weeks ago | Show parent
  #1753
Lives for gear
 
🎧 15 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by PuggaMahone ➡️

I don't know whether the low latency for a digital synth will change the music industry. They say Nonlinear Labs C15 has really low latency too, and it has a normal keyboard, and it's been around for a while now. I think the whole "your fingers are the envelopes" aspect is just the bees knees, and more people would give it a shot in a sort of normal keyboard rather than a "fingerboard"... that might change the industry somewhat, but it's not appropriate for everything. I think people would rather play ragtime on a piano keyboard, for example. I might be wrong about that, you never know. I also think the final retail price will have to be quite a bit higher than they anticipated, so there will still be much more demand for digital pianos and regular keyboard synths. At least the huge delay should give them time to test durability, for the prototypes, and to find any weak spots that may need to be improved.
I see it as an addition to other keyboards. Mainly for solo parts and melodies. I don't have the skills to fly over a keyboard and mimic technically other instruments. But can't wait to hear artist that can.
Old 1 week ago
  #1754
Lives for gear
 
🎧 10 years
Does anybody know how the pitch bend and modulation faders work? I've just finished a complete new studio build and have a space on top of my Kawai VPC1 for this as my main non-weighted controller (downpayment since first day), but if the pitch bend isn't sprung and only controls the sensitivity of the keys themselves, that probably won't work well for standard controller use. My main 76 note controller aftertouch is simply too hard to use any more (need to stand on it etc) so I nearly caved in and bought a Roland Enhancia Neova today to tide me over for some extra expression until the Osmose arrives (still very tempted). If the pitch bend doesn't work like a normal synth, I may just go ahead and buy a new midi controller and use the Osmose in another spot in the studio. Anybody know - the answer could mean I get to go shopping before Christmas or continue waiting ...
Old 1 week ago | Show parent
  #1755
Lives for gear
 
tjontheroad's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by dr_Jezz ➡️
Does anybody know how the pitch bend and modulation faders work? I've just finished a complete new studio build and have a space on top of my Kawai VPC1 for this as my main non-weighted controller (downpayment since first day), but if the pitch bend isn't sprung and only controls the sensitivity of the keys themselves, that probably won't work well for standard controller use. My main 76 note controller aftertouch is simply too hard to use any more (need to stand on it etc) so I nearly caved in and bought a Roland Enhancia Neova today to tide me over for some extra expression until the Osmose arrives (still very tempted). If the pitch bend doesn't work like a normal synth, I may just go ahead and buy a new midi controller and use the Osmose in another spot in the studio. Anybody know - the answer could mean I get to go shopping before Christmas or continue waiting ...
I'd be 99% sure the pitch bend slider is global considering there isn't any other way to do so. That said, I don't know if it's ever been demonstrated on video.
Old 1 week ago | Show parent
  #1756
Lives for gear
 
🎧 10 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by tjontheroad ➡️
I'd be 99% sure the pitch bend slider is global considering there isn't any other way to do so. That said, I don't know if it's ever been demonstrated on video.
Hi - you mean unsprung unlike a standard pitch stick/wheel? I have a feeling it may only be for setting the sensitivity of the key action and this be just a slider that stays stationary. Thanks for coming back
Old 1 week ago
  #1757
Gear Guru
 
EvilDragon's Avatar
 
🎧 10 years
I'm pretty sure it's sprung.
Old 1 week ago | Show parent
  #1758
Here for the gear
 
ugerhard's Avatar
Does anybody know something about the bizarre price change on the Osmose web page? It now says €13,698.99 there (twice: once on the top and on the bottom again).
Attached Thumbnails
Osmose by Expressive E-osmose.jpg  
Old 1 week ago | Show parent
  #1759
Lives for gear
Quote:
Originally Posted by ugerhard ➡️
Does anybody know something about the bizarre price change on the Osmose web page? It now says €13,698.99 there (twice: once on the top and on the bottom again).
All looks normal here - €1799 as usual. I have had it go weird before, showing VAT added twice then, must be a new glitch.
Old 1 week ago | Show parent
  #1760
Lives for gear
 
Gomjab's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by ugerhard ➡️
Does anybody know something about the bizarre price change on the Osmose web page? It now says €13,698.99 there (twice: once on the top and on the bottom again).
Hitting the US version of their website shows $1799 USD
Old 1 week ago | Show parent
  #1761
Lives for gear
 
tjontheroad's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by dr_Jezz ➡️
Hi - you mean unsprung unlike a standard pitch stick/wheel? I have a feeling it may only be for setting the sensitivity of the key action and this be just a slider that stays stationary. Thanks for coming back

Quote:
Originally Posted by EvilDragon ➡️
I'm pretty sure it's sprung.
Sprung I'd think as well.
Old 1 week ago | Show parent
  #1762
Lives for gear
 
tjontheroad's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by ugerhard ➡️
Does anybody know something about the bizarre price change on the Osmose web page? It now says €13,698.99 there (twice: once on the top and on the bottom again).
That's been crazy and ever wrong since they changed it for Brexit. Seems like a website glitch.
Old 1 week ago | Show parent
  #1763
Lives for gear
 
🎧 10 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by EvilDragon ➡️
I'm pretty sure it's sprung.

Quote:
Originally Posted by tjontheroad ➡️
Sprung I'd think as well.
Thanks guys - appreciate it

Still would be good to know if anyone's actually used the pitch slider or seen it being used at Superbooth to be absolutely certain as it might affect a purchase decision v. soon? Thanks guys.
Old 5 days ago | Show parent
  #1764
M32
Lives for gear
 
M32's Avatar
not sure if i should start a new thread, or if i can post this here, but i just bought the Imagine Software, and i'm really dissapointed.

It really is chrompaphone dressed up in a flashy visual jacket, and the amount of control over specifics is very limited.
It's a nice gadget that can create some fun sounds, but nowhere near the cool sounddesign tool it is advertised as.

But the worst part is that it is buggy as hell! midi implementation is very shoddy, for something that is marketed as an 'expressive instrument'?

I knew it didn't respond with MPE, but it's not just that, it downright crashes ableton live when you try to use it with say, a Roli Rise.

Anyway, rant over. Continue
Old 5 days ago | Show parent
  #1765
Lives for gear
 
🎧 5 years
Noisy is the same, lots of promise but never updated...

I suspect (hope) whatever resource thy have is working on Osmose!
Old 1 day ago
  #1766
Here for the gear
 
🎧 10 years
We’ll I’m getting excited for a new “we got delayed by two more months” update

Jk I want them to get it built right
Old 1 day ago | Show parent
  #1767
Lives for gear
 
🎧 5 years
Well, new variant seems to be slowing things down again then Xmas and New Year....its better to just try and forget about it until things start to happen...perhaps less contact is a mercy until there is some news like manufacturing started....
Old 1 day ago | Show parent
  #1768
Lives for gear
 
draig's Avatar
 
🎧 5 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by SLiC ➡️
Well, new variant seems to be slowing things down again then Xmas and New Year....its better to just try and forget about it until things start to happen...perhaps less contact is a mercy until there is some news like manufacturing started....
My Erae Touch finally showed up on my doorstep after a very long time. I'm sure the Osmose will eventually land at my door too.

In the meanwhile, I love my studio and making music and I'm not 'waiting' for anything!
Old 22 hours ago
  #1769
Lives for gear
 
tjontheroad's Avatar
They'd have a lot stupid balls showing up to Superbooth and not delivering from those promises made from then on. I believe it when I can play it.
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