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Osmose by Expressive E
Old 6 days ago | Show parent
  #1411
Lives for gear
Quote:
Originally Posted by Seamus O' Bottle ➡️
Anyone in the UK spoken to Expressive E about their pre-orders and the VAT situation following Brexit? It should be tax included still, right, so no additional import tax for that?
I’ve not discussed the Osmose with them directly, but they were in the process of registering for UK VAT a couple of months ago and so should charge it directly on all their gear.

However there might be import charges if they are made in China rather than the EU I believe. If they assemble them in France then that might avoid any further duty.
Old 5 days ago | Show parent
  #1412
Lives for gear
 
🎧 5 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by rpmedia ➡️
I’ve not discussed the Osmose with them directly, but they were in the process of registering for UK VAT a couple of months ago and so should charge it directly on all their gear.

However there might be import charges if they are made in China rather than the EU I believe. If they assemble them in France then that might avoid any further duty.
I think non-UK companies can only register to charge the VAT on products up to 135 GBP...UK authorities/couriers may well charge additional Import Duty, VAT or even Customs Brokerage...

We definitely need a statement on this (as well as other things!)
Old 5 days ago
  #1413
Lives for gear
 
🎧 10 years
Would hope they just knock off the pre-order price the minimum 20% they would've given to the French taxman then, so that we don't lose out here in blighty.
Old 5 days ago | Show parent
  #1414
Lives for gear
Quote:
Originally Posted by SLiC ➡️
I think non-UK companies can only register to charge the VAT on products up to 135 GBP...UK authorities/couriers may well charge additional Import Duty, VAT or even Customs Brokerage...

We definitely need a statement on this (as well as other things!)
When I asked about weird pricing I was seeing on their website, they indicated they would be charging 20% VAT once UK VAT registered (on Osmose), but they may have got that wrong!

As I understand it (and I could well be wrong!) they can opt to zero-rate items so the customer pays the import VAT on delivery, but that it is possible for them not to do this and charge the VAT their end if they are UK VAT registered (whereas they have to charge the VAT on items below £135).

There could still be additional import duties depending on country of origin (China or France) and additional VAT on that.

I think they could also opt to import them to the UK themselves via a third party business and then charge regular VAT up front as the items are already in the UK when sold to the customer.

Post Brexit VAT seems to be a mess whatever the case.
Old 5 days ago | Show parent
  #1415
Lives for gear
Quote:
Originally Posted by Seamus O' Bottle ➡️
Would hope they just knock off the pre-order price the minimum 20% they would've given to the French taxman then, so that we don't lose out here in blighty.
If they don't charge it I'm sure the invoice simply won't add the 20% VAT.
Old 1 day ago | Show parent
  #1416
Lives for gear
 
🎧 5 years
Well, the latest news still says shipping starts Mid June....But then the latest news has not been updated for a couple of months...

Does anyone expect that they will be shipping in 4 or 5 weeks time? I hope the board is great when it comes, but the communication has not been great.

I still haven't seen a picture of what the final units look like! There is a new picture on the web site (not sure if it is supposed to be there, weird white background) that shows the new 'angled' pitch and mod (so I assume the final design?) and interestingly it also shows MPE 'sounds' on the same (hardware) page...not sure if this is for playing via VST or can be loaded!


Old 1 day ago
  #1417
Lives for gear
 
tjontheroad's Avatar
Latest update was on March 19th. You'd think, if they were shipping next month, a new update would go out soon to let people know to get their remaining funds together. We'll see...
Old 1 day ago | Show parent
  #1418
Lives for gear
 
🎧 5 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by SLiC ➡️
Does anyone expect that they will be shipping in 4 or 5 weeks time?
Not really, no, I still keep pushing back my expectations to later in the year. But eventually I will be pleasantly surprised when it actually arrives.

Lets not forget the caveat from the last update:

Quote:
* The global electronic components industry remains severely disrupted. While most of the uncertainties have been addressed and solved, there remain some that may still offset Osmose’s delivery (e.g. circuit boards/PCBA).
Old 1 day ago | Show parent
  #1419
Lives for gear
 
🎧 5 years
I am able to buy new equipment from other manufacturers...but if there is another delay and shipping wont be Mid June 'as advertised' then LET US KNOW!

I mean, it is what it is, and it won't be ready until its ready...but whatever happens in the end I think a lot less of Expresive E as their communication has been extremely poor and their is absolutely no excuse for it....it takes 5 minutes to post and update online even if there is no substantial change, and they have updates the web site so....
Old 1 day ago | Show parent
  #1420
Lives for gear
 
🎧 5 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by rpmedia ➡️
When I asked about weird pricing I was seeing on their website, they indicated they would be charging 20% VAT once UK VAT registered (on Osmose), but they may have got that wrong!

As I understand it (and I could well be wrong!) they can opt to zero-rate items so the customer pays the import VAT on delivery, but that it is possible for them not to do this and charge the VAT their end if they are UK VAT registered (whereas they have to charge the VAT on items below £135).

There could still be additional import duties depending on country of origin (China or France) and additional VAT on that.

I think they could also opt to import them to the UK themselves via a third party business and then charge regular VAT up front as the items are already in the UK when sold to the customer.

Post Brexit VAT seems to be a mess whatever the case.
Yes, this is my concern. The price we were paid included the tax. Now (as I understand it) they can not charge UK tax, it has to be collected by the courier....so UK customers will face an additional charge of around 23% (Courier collected VAT + fees) on top of what we were quoted as the 'full cost' original unless they reduce the cost by 20% for UK customers (and it will still cost more, but that's BREXIT!)

Obviously they cant include the tax and also not pay the tax on it on to the government, so I am sure they will refund the tax to UK customers, but its been a long time since BREXIT so I would have expected a comment on this!
Old 1 day ago | Show parent
  #1421
Lives for gear
Quote:
Originally Posted by SLiC ➡️
Yes, this is my concern. The price we were paid included the tax. Now (as I understand it) they can not charge UK tax, it has to be collected by the courier....so UK customers will face an additional charge of around 23% (Courier collected VAT + fees) on top of what we were quoted as the 'full cost' original unless they reduce the cost by 20% for UK customers (and it will still cost more, but that's BREXIT!)

Obviously they cant include the tax and also not pay the tax on it on to the government, so I am sure they will refund the tax to UK customers, but its been a long time since BREXIT so I would have expected a comment on this!
We will pay additional charges but not double VAT - it will be paid point of sale or delivery not both. I'm pleased that the updated website now shows the correct inc. VAT price - until about a week ago it was showing double VAT on my browsers!

I just made a quick test on their website buying a touché - I went all the way through to payment and stopped there, so it had my UK delivery address and it included VAT on the charge. Touché is above the £135, so I'm guessing they'll collect the VAT on Osmose too.

The only additional VAT would be on any customs duties if it turns out these are applicable.
Old 1 day ago | Show parent
  #1422
Lives for gear
 
🎧 5 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by rpmedia ➡️
We will pay additional charges but not double VAT - it will be paid point of sale or delivery not both. I'm pleased that the updated website now shows the correct inc. VAT price - until about a week ago it was showing double VAT on my browsers!

I just made a quick test on their website buying a touché - I went all the way through to payment and stopped there, so it had my UK delivery address and it included VAT on the charge. Touché is above the £135, so I'm guessing they'll collect the VAT on Osmose too.

The only additional VAT would be on any customs duties if it turns out these are applicable.
Interesting, I am still not sure they can charge (and collect) VAT above £135 as they would have no way to pay it top the UK Government, it hasn't been set up to work that way (and no other retailer like Thomann is doing it)

http://www.gov.uk/guidance/vat-and-o...mers-in-the-uk
Old 1 day ago | Show parent
  #1423
Quote:
Originally Posted by tjontheroad ➡️
Latest update was on March 19th. You'd think, if they were shipping next month, a new update would go out soon to let people know to get their remaining funds together. We'll see...
It’s entirely possible that they are now limited by the chip shortages. It could be another 6-12 months for all we know. I haven’t been able to find stock for months for currently produced items, depending on the manufacturer.
Old 1 day ago | Show parent
  #1424
Lives for gear
Quote:
Originally Posted by SLiC ➡️
Interesting, I am still not sure they can charge (and collect) VAT above £135 as they would have no way to pay it top the UK Government, it hasn't been set up to work that way (and no other retailer like Thomann is doing it)

http://www.gov.uk/guidance/vat-and-o...mers-in-the-uk
I agree all the descriptions of the system seem to expect them not to. It is "import VAT" not "sales VAT", but whether they can collect both types I don't know. You'd think that since they have to collect VAT on sales below £135 and pay it to UK gov they could do for items above £135. Or maybe they will pay it to Fedex or whoever on our behalf?

Have you tried asking Expressivee?

Muziker, dv247 and Bax all charge UK VAT, but I guess they all have some UK presence despite being EU based. Thomann currently charge VAT on any consignment under £135 and then not above, yes.
Old 1 day ago | Show parent
  #1425
Lives for gear
 
djwaxxy's Avatar
 
🎧 5 years
Who are expressive e distribution in uk?
One way vat could be sorted is if they use there uk company too sort it out.
The other way is for them too take 20% off the original preorder price and I really hope they don’t use ups of fedex in uk they add massive fees on top of any import duty’s claimed .
In my experience those are the two worst import delivery companies,they’ve over charged me in the past and took me ages for them to sort it out also there delivery guys are obnoxious..I’ve seen them throw packets and purposely break gear in my case they damaged 3 sets of speakers and amps .
Old 1 day ago | Show parent
  #1426
Lives for gear
 
tjontheroad's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by Thudinthenight ➡️
It’s entirely possible that they are now limited by the chip shortages. It could be another 6-12 months for all we know. I haven’t been able to find stock for months for currently produced items, depending on the manufacturer.
They said they had all the components as of January 2021. Manufacturing in the middle of a pandemic is the problem.
Old 1 day ago | Show parent
  #1427
Lives for gear
 
🎧 5 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by rpmedia ➡️
I agree all the descriptions of the system seem to expect them not to. It is "import VAT" not "sales VAT", but whether they can collect both types I don't know. You'd think that since they have to collect VAT on sales below £135 and pay it to UK gov they could do for items above £135. Or maybe they will pay it to Fedex or whoever on our behalf?

Have you tried asking Expressivee?

Muziker, dv247 and Bax all charge UK VAT, but I guess they all have some UK presence despite being EU based. Thomann currently charge VAT on any consignment under £135 and then not above, yes.
I have several unanswered emails on this and general shipping date enquiries!

Yes, Muziker, dv247 and BAX all have UK addresses now and pay tax like a UK company (I know DV247 keep stock for a lot of the products in the UK to offfer next day shipping....I don't think EU suppliers will last long with often more expensive costs after import and 3 day minimum shipping time...if it doesn't get stuck in customs!)
Old 1 day ago
  #1428
Lives for gear
 
I think "no news" is exactly that ... no news. I'm happy for them not to waste time every week posting "nothing new to tell you".
My experience of pre-ordering stuff is generally good in the end ... but I factor in the wait to my expectations... almost always comes out right. I anticipate this will be the case with Osmose ... it's not like they are starting out from scratch ...
Old 1 day ago | Show parent
  #1429
Lives for gear
 
🎧 5 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by TobyB ➡️
I think "no news" is exactly that ... no news. I'm happy for them not to waste time every week posting "nothing new to tell you".
My experience of pre-ordering stuff is generally good in the end ... but I factor in the wait to my expectations... almost always comes out right. I anticipate this will be the case with Osmose ... it's not like they are starting out from scratch ...
Maybe, but they could answer emails on the UK VAT situation....there is a difference between no news and no communication which is slightly more concerning!
Old 1 day ago
  #1430
Lives for gear
 
Yes - quite agree with that - although it might well be the case that they are trying to clarify it themselves - but they could tell us that ...
Old 15 hours ago | Show parent
  #1431
Lives for gear
 
🎧 5 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by tjontheroad ➡️
They said they had all the components as of January 2021. Manufacturing in the middle of a pandemic is the problem.
No, they said this in March:

Quote:
The global electronic components industry remains severely disrupted. While most of the uncertainties have been addressed and solved, there remain some that may still offset Osmose’s delivery (e.g. circuit boards/PCBA).
Old 14 hours ago | Show parent
  #1432
Lives for gear
 
tjontheroad's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by SteveElbows ➡️
No, they said this in March:
Third paragraph...

https://expressivee.happyfox.com/kb/...f-development/

"In January 2021 we received all the industrial parts of the first Osmoses. The parts were tested and assembled with the greatest care. The final results were very conclusive, and the quality of the parts once assembled in the final product functioned perfectly. We are currently working on the final industrial adjustments phase."

The last statement does seems conflict the first I agree.
Old 14 hours ago | Show parent
  #1433
Lives for gear
Quote:
Originally Posted by tjontheroad ➡️
Third paragraph...

https://expressivee.happyfox.com/kb/...f-development/

"In January 2021 we received all the industrial parts of the first Osmoses. The parts were tested and assembled with the greatest care. The final results were very conclusive, and the quality of the parts once assembled in the final product functioned perfectly. We are currently working on the final industrial adjustments phase."

The last statement does seems conflict the first I agree.
Perhaps these “first Osmoses” were a few test builds in Jan to check the industrial design rather than parts for finalised products - the shortages perhaps kick in for the larger run?
Old 14 hours ago | Show parent
  #1434
Quote:
Originally Posted by tjontheroad ➡️
Third paragraph...

https://expressivee.happyfox.com/kb/...f-development/

"In January 2021 we received all the industrial parts of the first Osmoses. The parts were tested and assembled with the greatest care. The final results were very conclusive, and the quality of the parts once assembled in the final product functioned perfectly. We are currently working on the final industrial adjustments phase."

The last statement does seems conflict the first I agree.
The way I interpret that is: they received all the components to build the first industrial versions. But sourcing enough for general production is still a problem.
Old 14 hours ago | Show parent
  #1435
Lives for gear
 
🎧 5 years
Either way- if they have made even a few of the 'final' production version of the Osmose (the one with the sloping mod wheels I assume) it would be nice to see some pictures!! If that's the final- how about the manual? Anything!!
Old 13 hours ago | Show parent
  #1436
Lives for gear
 
tjontheroad's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by rpmedia ➡️
Perhaps these “first Osmoses” were a few test builds in Jan to check the industrial design rather than parts for finalised products - the shortages perhaps kick in for the larger run?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Thudinthenight ➡️
The way I interpret that is: they received all the components to build the first industrial versions. But sourcing enough for general production is still a problem.

Meh, only they know

Old 13 hours ago | Show parent
  #1437
Gear Addict
 
🎧 5 years
They answered to me a week ago that the info on their site regarding the production status is still relevant. They’re going to provide new infos this month.
Plus they told me I’ld have some weeks to pay the remaining amount if it’ld happened the launch would be at a moment I’m in trouble money wise and still the preorder lower price.
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