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Old 4 weeks ago | Show parent
  #1381
Lives for gear
 
draig's Avatar
 
🎧 5 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by Phil Aiken ➡️
Early pre-order still waiting. I found the recent video of the pressure controlled portamento rate to be super expressive. Maybe he is just making it seem easy, but I've manually tweaked portamento rate while playing lines and it does not seem nearly so intuitive as this.
While realizing that not all instruments or controllers are all things to all people, if this had a ribbon I think it would suffice as a one an only MPE controller for me personally, and I would perhaps sell my Seaboard and Linnstrument. As it is, I think the Linnstrument and Osmose could be an excellent match, as could the Osmose and a Continuumini. Something to slide on, and something to play super expressive keys with.
No way I would give up the Linnstrument as I want to be able to slide notes and chords

I also do lots of stuff with the Linnstrument that doesn't need to be super expressive, just MPE flexible. For example, playing a sound with the Bitwig arpeggiator, it converts the individual note pressure to velocity. So I can control the playing of the arp in realtime in ways not possible without the MPE including pitch slides. It is still an arp, but with more variations.

I also play the Linnstrument with pitch quantizing off, so I can on purpose start notes a bit sharp or flat before hitting the 'correct' pitch. Then with pitch quantizing off, there is a natural variation in pitch that can sound lovely (gotta be pretty accurate or it can be too much).

I don't think you could do that stuff with the Osmose either.
Old 4 weeks ago | Show parent
  #1382
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Lady Gaia's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by draig ➡️
I don't think you could do that stuff with the Osmose either.
The chord sliding is definitely out, no question there. The others, though?

Clearly the Osmose can convert pressure to MPE velocity - there’s a dedicated mode for that. Bending into a note is something I’m hoping works fairly well but it’s hard to tell without getting some hands-on experience. Here’s how it should work: if you strike two adjacent keys at the same time with any kind of mono interval set then you should wind up on a pitch that’s an average of the two weighted by their independent pressure levels. Easing off of one will resulting in bending the pitch into the note you keep pressure on.

This should feel pretty intuitive, like you’re managing a pitch see-saw controlled by two fingers on adjacent keys (or not necessarily adjacent, if you set a larger interval and want a more extreme effect.) It’s a different approach than the Linnstrument or Continuum, so I’m sure it’ll have its advantages and drawbacks, but it seems utterly plausible.
Old 4 weeks ago
  #1383
Lives for gear
 
🎧 5 years
Yes, ultimately it will be about how musical the movements and expression sound, and how easy it is to add the expression to your existing technique. Personally I can the make the linnstrument or the rolli work for we, I just didn't like the playing experience and quickly realised that the ‘press’ of a key was more important to me than being able to slide. My Hydrasynth is less capable from an MPE point of view, but a joy to play...poly AT and a ribbon gets close to what I need, I’m hoping the Osmose will be a step up again....

Last edited by SLiC; 4 weeks ago at 09:45 AM.. Reason: Typo
Old 4 weeks ago
  #1384
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NoVi's Avatar
 
🎧 10 years
In their latest newsletter they state that it will be produced in China. Unfortunately my policy is not to buy musical instruments anymore that are being produced there.

So I that means bye, bye to my 'entrance fee' I guess.
Old 4 weeks ago | Show parent
  #1385
Lives for gear
 
🎧 5 years
I think it was known from the start the electronics were being made in China (as most electronics are). You would probably be hard pushed to find anything in a modern studio that didn't have some parts made in China. Even if the external badge says 'made in the USA' or whatever...that usually just means the main parts (that were made in China)
Old 4 weeks ago | Show parent
  #1386
Lives for gear
 
draig's Avatar
 
🎧 5 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lady Gaia ➡️
The chord sliding is definitely out, no question there. The others, though?

Clearly the Osmose can convert pressure to MPE velocity - there’s a dedicated mode for that. Bending into a note is something I’m hoping works fairly well but it’s hard to tell without getting some hands-on experience. Here’s how it should work: if you strike two adjacent keys at the same time with any kind of mono interval set then you should wind up on a pitch that’s an average of the two weighted by their independent pressure levels. Easing off of one will resulting in bending the pitch into the note you keep pressure on.

This should feel pretty intuitive, like you’re managing a pitch see-saw controlled by two fingers on adjacent keys (or not necessarily adjacent, if you set a larger interval and want a more extreme effect.) It’s a different approach than the Linnstrument or Continuum, so I’m sure it’ll have its advantages and drawbacks, but it seems utterly plausible.
I was not meaning that the Osmose couldn't do the AT -> Velocity thing, cause that is in the Bitwig Arp itself. Any controller with per voice pressure can do it with the Bitwig Arp.

So you think it is a see-saw? I didn't notice that the pitch could go back and forth. I thought it only moved from first note to second note with the rate based on the relative pressure difference.
Old 4 weeks ago | Show parent
  #1387
Lives for gear
 
🎧 5 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by draig ➡️
So you think it is a see-saw? I didn't notice that the pitch could go back and forth. I thought it only moved from first note to second note with the rate based on the relative pressure difference.
I think it's pretty clear at about 1:07, where he plays D-E-D: the pitch glides up and down.
Old 4 weeks ago | Show parent
  #1388
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Lady Gaia's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by draig ➡️
So you think it is a see-saw? I didn't notice that the pitch could go back and forth. I thought it only moved from first note to second note with the rate based on the relative pressure difference.
It’s pretty apparent both from the opening few notes of the demo video and also how it’s described by the in text:

Quote:
“Unlike regular portamento that makes the pitch glide to the last note's pitch within a fixed amount of portamento time, the Pressure-weighted Portamento reacts to the pressure ratio between the two notes. The pitch will dynamically glide between the notes in real-time, always reacting to how the player distributes pressure between the two notes.

Controlled pitch slides, slow, expressive glissando, and subtle to dramatic vibrato effects are now immediately available at your fingertips!”
The notion that it’s continuous adjustment “between the notes” rather than using an instantaneous snapshot of pressure or limiting the description to the glide from one to another suggests the possibility, and the mention of vibrato all but confirms it. The video is, to me, pretty definitive evidence of that interpretation.

It’s all very much in keeping with the Haken approach of letting you perform the amplitude envelope rather than merely triggering it. This kind of continuous control, directly connected to what you’re doing, is a wonderful consequence of treating synthesis more like an acoustic instrument.
Old 4 weeks ago | Show parent
  #1389
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draig's Avatar
 
🎧 5 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rimwolf ➡️
I think it's pretty clear at about 1:07, where he plays D-E-D: the pitch glides up and down.
Yeah, that looks right... I had thought he again played the D, not that he just pressed harder on the D

cool!
Old 4 weeks ago | Show parent
  #1390
Lives for gear
 
draig's Avatar
 
🎧 5 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lady Gaia ➡️
It’s pretty apparent both from the opening few notes of the demo video and also how it’s described by the in text:

The notion that it’s continuous adjustment “between the notes” rather than using an instantaneous snapshot of pressure or limiting the description to the glide from one to another suggests the possibility, and the mention of vibrato all but confirms it. The video is, to me, pretty definitive evidence of that interpretation.

It’s all very much in keeping with the Haken approach of letting you perform the amplitude envelope rather than merely triggering it. This kind of continuous control directly, connected to what you’re doing, is a wonderful consequence of treating synthesis more like an acoustic instrument.
it would have to be as you say with vibrato... and I looked closer at the video and concur from that too...

I'm curious how it is working.
Old 4 weeks ago | Show parent
  #1391
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draig's Avatar
 
🎧 5 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by jdkJake ➡️
The pressure portamento feature is part of the Eagan Matrix sound engine. The feature would have to be built into a VST's sound engine to work as it works in the Eagan Matrix. As the feature is patented, it seem unlikely any VST would license the technology. But, you never know I guess.

Nice to see additional Continuum features come over to the Osmose.
If the feature is in the EaganMatrix, then wouldn't it have just automatically worked with the Osmose?

I'm curious what data the hardware sending? Is it using Pitch Bend?
Old 4 weeks ago | Show parent
  #1392
Lives for gear
 
🎧 5 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by draig ➡️
If the feature is in the EaganMatrix, then wouldn't it have just automatically worked with the Osmose?

I'm curious what data the hardware sending? Is it using Pitch Bend?
As per what I said in a previous post after reading the Continuum manual:

Quote:
Originally Posted by SteveElbows ➡️
there is a table showing various different function modes within mono mode. And the table has both description and Midi Encoding columns. For the function labelled Portamento, the midi encoding column says 'A highly optimized series of Pitch Bend messages will be used to glide the pitch to the new note'.
I dont like to make assumptions about Osmose being identical, but its reasonable to expect it to be similar. But I dont know for sure, for example, whether all the MIDI. MPE & config stuff in the Osmose relies on the same EaganMatrix code or whether they've implemented any part of this differently, in their own layer.

If all the portamento stuff is done in the same way in the Osmose then even when considering fancier modes with different zones and polyphonic capabilities, I would expect these could also work with any MPE synth that has implemented MPE properly.

And frankly, patent complications aside, I wouldnt be surprised that if I looked into the detail, it would be possible to write my own MIDI MPE processing layer that would enable other MPE controllers to end up with similar functionality. It would just be a question of whether I was clever enough to get the maths/code right, whether unacceptable amounts of lag were introduced by my layer, how timely and sensitive the pressure data from the other MPE controller was, and maybe a few other things I havent thought of. Then there would be the patent issue to deal with, which would come down to the details of the patent, any personal use etc exemptions in certain jurisdictions, what I was planning to do with the fruits of this work. And in my case Im not actually planning to do any of this, because I do not want to be a dick to innovative controller/synth companies, am not excited enough about the feature to spend the time replicating it, and also because I preordered the Osmose and am hoping that its so good that my other MPE controllers wont get much use once I have the Osmose. Or at least that I would just use those controllers for what styles of play they are already good for, and save this fancy portamento stuff for the Osmose.
Old 4 weeks ago
  #1393
Lives for gear
 
🎧 5 years
Oh and when I say I'm not that excited about that feature, it does interest me, its just most of my favourite synth patches take advantage of ways to play with expressive controllers that already make uses of pressure to control other aspects of the sound. Patches that try to do both will have to make compromises, in terms of there not being separable control, in that mode the pressure will end up affecting pitch and whatever other parameters I want at the same time. Although this isnt quite an accurate description given what I'm about to say in the next paragraph, since we have two different ranges of pressure on the Osmose that can do their own thing. But they arent fully independent physically given that to get to one you first have to press through the zone of the other.

On a related note, apart from how it actually feels, one of the biggest unknowns for me with the Osmose is how readily I will come to terms with the fact that the Y MPE axis on the Osmose is not available via its own distinct dimension. If I remember correctly its controlled by the initial pressure phase of keys, and once I move past that point of key depression, and on to controlling the Z dimension via additional pressure (aftertouch), I dont have the ability to further affect Y on that key, not until I release enough pressure to end up back in the Y zone rather than the Z zone. Well I'm sure there was is easier way to describe that than I have managed this time!
Old 4 weeks ago | Show parent
  #1394
Lives for gear
 
draig's Avatar
 
🎧 5 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by SteveElbows ➡️
Oh and when I say I'm not that excited about that feature, it does interest me, its just most of my favourite synth patches take advantage of ways to play with expressive controllers that already make uses of pressure to control other aspects of the sound. Patches that try to do both will have to make compromises, in terms of there not being separable control, in that mode the pressure will end up affecting pitch and whatever other parameters I want at the same time. Although this isnt quite an accurate description given what I'm about to say in the next paragraph, since we have two different ranges of pressure on the Osmose that can do their own thing. But they arent fully independent physically given that to get to one you first have to press through the zone of the other.

On a related note, apart from how it actually feels, one of the biggest unknowns for me with the Osmose is how readily I will come to terms with the fact that the Y MPE axis on the Osmose is not available via its own distinct dimension. If I remember correctly its controlled by the initial pressure phase of keys, and once I move past that point of key depression, and on to controlling the Z dimension via additional pressure (aftertouch), I dont have the ability to further affect Y on that key, not until I release enough pressure to end up back in the Y zone rather than the Z zone. Well I'm sure there was is easier way to describe that than I have managed this time!
This is why the Osmose cannot become a replacement for my Linnstrument. It cannot do the pitch slides and it doesn't really have the Y axis... not in terms of ways I use it with the Linnstrument. For example, striking pads in different spots on the Y axis can be set to increase envelope release time (or whatever).

They are really quite different and using the term MPE (as in they are both 'MPE' controllers) makes them sound more similar than they actually are.
Old 4 weeks ago | Show parent
  #1395
Gear Nut
 
switch777's Avatar
 
🎧 10 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by NoVi ➡️
In their latest newsletter they state that it will be produced in China. Unfortunately my policy is not to buy musical instruments anymore that are being produced there.

So I that means bye, bye to my 'entrance fee' I guess.
If you can get them to transfer your pre-order seat to me, I'll gladly pay you the original pre-order cost.
Old 4 weeks ago | Show parent
  #1396
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Lady Gaia's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by switch777 ➡️
If you can get them to transfer your pre-order seat to me, I'll gladly pay you the original pre-order cost.
If I remember correctly, they won’t transfer pre-orders, but of course whoever placed the original pre-order is free to re-sell the product - even arrange to have it delivered elsewhere. They’re just responsible for arranging payment in that case.

Or they can simply cancel the pre-order and request a refund. The original language made it clear that was an option. Nobody was ever obligated to follow through with the order, which is part of why placing the original order was such a no-brainer for me.
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