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Roland MC-707 & MC-101 Grooveboxes
Old 3 days ago | Show parent
  #8731
Gear Head
 
boomyak's Avatar
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by nodataavailable ➡️
I am going to take a step back from this, because I genuinely don't want to make you angry. But I will leave you with this:

How many OS updates did the SP-404SX get?

-It got to v1.07

How many of those updates involved any significant changes to functionality

The support page only lists these as non-bug fixes, and that was in v1.05, which I think was the first post-release OS upgrade:
[IMPROVEMENT]

After startup, the display remains as "- - -" until the unit can start working and sound. It can be playable after the display returns to BPM.
After sampling done, the display remains as "- - -"until the sampled data saved. Don't turn off the product until it returns to the BPM display.


I'm sorry you feel this way. I feel like I'm being a pragmatist, and maybe I am wrong.

Like I say, I genuinely don't want to make you annoyed or anything, was just trying to explain from my layperson's knowledge, and essentially guessing (which is the same really as you are doing thinking what could be possible and probable - this is not a dig)

I do hope what you want happens, as it would be a gamechanger for that unit.
I feel you. It's just exhausting when literally EVERYONE on this thread is parroting the pessimistic view. It doesn't feel like it's me vs this entire forum, it IS like that lol. Because I have to audacity to ask for longer than 60 seconds total project sample time.


It's either:

- We simply don't have the technology to playback CD-quality audio (like we could in 1980) on flash media.

- No large feature like this has ever been done before... except for making a groovebox a literal 20 track (10 stereo) output audio device? You can LITERALLY just buy an MC-707 instead of an audio card.

- Just cause it's been actually done before on the SP-404 back in 2009, things are so different nowadays that it is now IMPOSSIBLE.

- Why not buy this other thing that costs twice as much and doesn't have the rest of the functionality that the 707 already has?

- Just because it does MORE for your needs than ANY other single piece of outboard gear, you're OBVIOUSLY using the wrong equipment, you fool!

or the main one:

- Why bother asking for anything? Everything sucks, nothing gets better, everyone hates everything, and especially you for having the poor sense to hope for a [email protected]#$ing feature. BOOOO. BOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO.

Enjoy this negative cesspool. And [email protected]#$ me for having the crazy far-off dream of using a [email protected]#$ing SD card that already exists for audio in an audio device. HOW DARE I. Everyone just make sure to do your part and shoot down the next fool unlucky enough to dream in here, god have mercy on them.

/unsubscribed from thread
Old 3 days ago | Show parent
  #8732
Here for the gear
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by boomyak ➡️
I feel you. It's just exhausting when literally EVERYONE on this thread is parroting the pessimistic view. It doesn't feel like it's me vs this entire forum, it IS like that lol. Because I have to audacity to ask for longer than 60 seconds total project sample time.
I said I've leave this, but I will just say this as a final thought.

I don't think people are attacking you, I think they're just thinking what you want isn't going to happen. That is possibly pessimistic (although I would say it's pragmatic instead). Sure, what you said is definitely possible but doesn't mean it will happen.

None of this is personal, though, no one is having a go at you./ I certainly am not, I have tried to be level headed and explain my thinking.

With regards to you wanting something to happen, I would recommend you contact Roland. I don't know how receptive they will be, but reckon you'll have a better chance than writing on a forum, which I would be surprised if they read (especially 300 pages in). I've not dealt with Roland, but I have emailed a few other (admittedly smaller) manufacturers, and by and large they are nice people to deal with, even if they say no.

Have a great day, mate, I honestly wish you well.
Old 3 days ago | Show parent
  #8733
Here for the gear
 
The hardware features that allowed older gear to stream directly from the sd card may simply not be present in the hardware silicon.

They may have used a different cpu and or io chips. In which case it may not be a firmware update needed it may be a complete firmware rewrite to emulate the hardware in the firmware depending on the architecture !
Old 3 days ago | Show parent
  #8734
Lives for gear
 
cogsy's Avatar
 
🎧 5 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by boomyak ➡️
I feel you. It's just exhausting when literally EVERYONE on this thread is parroting the pessimistic view. It doesn't feel like it's me vs this entire forum, it IS like that lol. Because I have to audacity to ask for longer than 60 seconds total project sample time.


It's either:

- We simply don't have the technology to playback CD-quality audio (like we could in 1980) on flash media.

- No large feature like this has ever been done before... except for making a groovebox a literal 20 track (10 stereo) output audio device? You can LITERALLY just buy an MC-707 instead of an audio card.

- Just cause it's been actually done before on the SP-404 back in 2009, things are so different nowadays that it is now IMPOSSIBLE.

- Why not buy this other thing that costs twice as much and doesn't have the rest of the functionality that the 707 already has?

- Just because it does MORE for your needs than ANY other single piece of outboard gear, you're OBVIOUSLY using the wrong equipment, you fool!

or the main one:

- Why bother asking for anything? Everything sucks, nothing gets better, everyone hates everything, and especially you for having the poor sense to hope for a [email protected]#$ing feature. BOOOO. BOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO.

Enjoy this negative cesspool. And [email protected]#$ me for having the crazy far-off dream of using a [email protected]#$ing SD card that already exists for audio in an audio device. HOW DARE I. Everyone just make sure to do your part and shoot down the next fool unlucky enough to dream in here, god have mercy on them.

/unsubscribed from thread
You understand that every single person in this thread would love to have the features that you're describing, right? We're all on your side. You don't have to convince us. Copy all your posts in this thread and go paste it on Roland's Facebook page. Also, be sure to let them know how easy it is to implement. I bet they would love to hear that.
Old 3 days ago | Show parent
  #8735
Gear Nut
 
Bonsaipanda's Avatar
Just out of curiosity: Has anyone poked the MC-707 with SysEx messages? The MIDI implementation chart says that the device does not respond but then the manual sort of hints that it could be done (but advices against it). The key to the communication would be to know the device id (for example, on the Jupiter-X it's 00 00 00 65h and on the Juno-X 00 00 00 12h) and thought that maybe someone knows what the id is for MC-707.

I could write a quick script that just pokes the box with dummy values until it responds, but there is a huge chance that SysEx is just simply disabled on the device (so Roland can focus selling patches via their cloud service). Knowing the id would enable complete control over everything in the box, could be neat.
Old 3 days ago | Show parent
  #8736
Lives for gear
 
🎧 5 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by boomyak ➡️
Huh, so what you're saying is that something that was developed for a differenr Roland product, could be easily ported into the MC-707, so it's no big deal?

You're making my point.

The SP-404a/SX from 15 years ago was sampling directly to and from the SD card! And that was with the garbage tier of SD cards available 15 years ago!
No, that's not what I'm saying. I'm saying that developing class compliance was worth the trouble because it is something they could use across many products, MCs being just an example among them.

Roland specifically developed the ZEN-Core software platform and the BMC chips that powers it to make developing many products more efficient. When products share the same underlying technology, both hardware and software, then developments made can be shared and porting becomes relatively easy, and Roland is putting ZEN-Core in more or less everything now.

That old SP SD streaming however is from a completely different technological era. A port wouldn't be as easy. That doesn't mean developing it again to work with their current platform would be hard.

Regardless, technical feasibility is not what's in question. They know that streaming exists and they've already chosen to not use it. I do not know what all the Pros and Cons involved are but it's certain that they have weighed their options and eventually chose to work with internal memory, and chose to assign it in the way they thought best for the product they were aiming to offer, resulting in that deliberately chosen small looper buffer, and those design decisions are locked into the structure of the device.

This is a caricature but I really want to drill the idea across: if someone is making a race car asking them to add a DVD player to entertain the kids isn't going to fly, no mater if they've done so before in other types of car, no matter how old DVD tech is, no matter how easy it would be to do, because such a feature is not relevant to a race car.

Fact is that their vision of what the MCs are is quite different from what you (and others, it's been recurring issue since release) want it to be. The use case you want is clearly not one they had in mind, otherwise they would have made many many different choices from the get go.

Not saying things won't improve btw: people wanted a "song mode" but Roland considered the MCs to be live instruments, so they eventually settled for scene chains which kinda scratch that "song" itch a bit while retaining that live orientation. There may be some way to rearrange the RAM to get more looper time or ways to record into 6/12 minute sample space more quickly or something.

But the chances of this turning into a giant 8 track looper with SD streaming that can record loads of audio are slimmer than slim. That's a very different product.
Old 2 days ago | Show parent
  #8737
Lives for gear
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bonsaipanda ➡️
Just out of curiosity: Has anyone poked the MC-707 with SysEx messages? The MIDI implementation chart says that the device does not respond but then the manual sort of hints that it could be done (but advices against it). The key to the communication would be to know the device id (for example, on the Jupiter-X it's 00 00 00 65h and on the Juno-X 00 00 00 12h) and thought that maybe someone knows what the id is for MC-707.

I could write a quick script that just pokes the box with dummy values until it responds, but there is a huge chance that SysEx is just simply disabled on the device (so Roland can focus selling patches via their cloud service). Knowing the id would enable complete control over everything in the box, could be neat.
That’d be awesome. Where exactly do they hint it could be done?
I still hope they will release an editor for it like they did for the MV-1. Seems like an obvious thing to do, since most of the engine is the same as the MV-1 (I think?)
Old 2 days ago | Show parent
  #8738
Gear Nut
 
Bonsaipanda's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by MPrinsen ➡️
That’d be awesome. Where exactly do they hint it could be done?
I still hope they will release an editor for it like they did for the MV-1. Seems like an obvious thing to do, since most of the engine is the same as the MV-1 (I think?)
There was just a generic comment in the lines of "normally, you would control these values using sysex commands, but the commands are long and take time so the sysctrl shortcuts give a more direct access."

Oh, I didn't know the MV-1 had an editor, gotta have a look at that because yes, I would guess the engines are very similar.
Old 2 days ago | Show parent
  #8739
Lives for gear
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bonsaipanda ➡️
There was just a generic comment in the lines of "normally, you would control these values using sysex commands, but the commands are long and take time so the sysctrl shortcuts give a more direct access."
Interesting! But might also be incorrectly copied from another manual maybe? For example, the Jupiter-X? Since it has the same sound engine and does respond to Sysex (also has an editor).

They did release an editor for the TR-8S years after its initial release. So there is hope
Old 2 days ago | Show parent
  #8740
Gear Nut
 
Bonsaipanda's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by MPrinsen ➡️
Interesting! But might also be incorrectly copied from another manual maybe?
Yes, it's just a generic. SysEx could be completely disabled, though looking through the manual of the MV-1, it also states that it does not send or receive sysex, but the communication with Zenbeats editor looks very much like the classic sysex speed communication. I'll do some poking and report back.
Old 2 days ago | Show parent
  #8741
Lives for gear
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bonsaipanda ➡️
Yes, it's just a generic. SysEx could be completely disabled, though looking through the manual of the MV-1, it also states that it does not send or receive sysex, but the communication with Zenbeats editor looks very much like the classic sysex speed communication. I'll do some poking and report back.
Awesome
Old 2 days ago | Show parent
  #8742
Lives for gear
 
Gearspace Cadet's Avatar
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bonsaipanda ➡️
Yes, it's just a generic. SysEx could be completely disabled, though looking through the manual of the MV-1, it also states that it does not send or receive sysex, but the communication with Zenbeats editor looks very much like the classic sysex speed communication. I'll do some poking and report back.
Yes , the mv and zenbeats communicate via sysex over usb, the mv can also receive sysex via the midi din in , which you can pass on with usb thur , but it doesn’t transmit it back out the mv midi out .

I’ve been using a apro and a bcr2000 to control the mv with and without zenbeats via sysex .

I used a midi monitor to capture the msg
Old 2 days ago | Show parent
  #8743
Lives for gear
 
NuG3nda's Avatar
 
🎧 10 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by cogsy ➡️
Woof, this is a long post. I'll try to answer some of your questions...



MC707 totally has sample loop. Look at the reference manual for editing Drum Tracks
Hey thanks for taking the time in replying to my inquiries..

And since I have you on the line..

*Can you set up sample start / end and loop parameters as preformance controls?

*How many macro parameters can be assigned per knob and can you set up scaled values?

*Can you be in trim mode while adjusting sample /loop values?

*Can you resample while editing these values /or synth parameters?

Are loop settings in the slice mode?.. Or Do you have to jump back to the sample trim once the slice has been assigned to a pad to input loop values?.. And then scroll? To find the orginal sample to continue slicing (as its not on a pad?

a better summation of what I am asking is: How is the sampler workflow when choping and assigning samples to layers /editing drumkits: does the system remember where in the alphabet order thhe last sample was or do you have to scroll though all samples? And are all 4 encoders used for editing the horizontal options or do you have to arrow key dow to change each value?


And lastly but not least and pardon if this has already been discussed in detail, Ive read post on this but from a 1st hand user base preferably with good experience of sampler fidelity:

As a samer how does the mc707 sound in direct comparison to the SP-16 or the MPC line.. Is there a noticeable difference quality/fidelity (any big PA experiences or large system refrance welcome) .. And please feel free to speak on tone/charaghter, pitch algorithms and filters when comparing these boxes.. And add elektron and polyend into the discussions if you have them.

Mucho Gracias!
Old 18 minutes ago | Show parent
  #8744
Gear Nut
 
Bonsaipanda's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gearspace Cadet ➡️
I used a midi monitor to capture the msg
If you have the time and energy, can you look up the command to change the name of the first clip on the first track to "TEST" or something similar and post it here. Or just muting the first clip on track 1? These are usually things that are immediately reflected on the display (and in audio) so it's really fast way to see when a message is received.
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