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Speculation on the next Sequential instrument
Old 1st October 2022 | Show parent
  #7261
Gear Head
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Synthpark ➡️
As soon as you try to use this great, really vintage sounding premium synth in a production you might see under certain circumstances where the limitations are, which make workflow a little hard. It has midi, velocity, aftertouch. But all the presets, which rely on slow, but rhythmic LFO movement, can't be synced or key-triggered, and music has moved on, new styles exist. You also cannot start with some midi production and add some presets to the arrangement if your LFO makes what it wants, which you are never able to exactly adjust to the tempo.
Which DAW do you use? If you by any chance have Ableton suite, you can achieve these results that you describe related to sync (but not key-trigger). I have been using this Max4Live device, it's basically a utility which you can put on a midi track (sending midi to the P5/10 via usb on the track's output). You have 16 dials, and you can assign them to any of the available CC messages on the P5/10. Once they are set, you can map LFOs, envelopes, and other modulators (all syncable) to those CCs. It's pretty fun and easy.
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Old 2nd October 2022 | Show parent
  #7262
Lives for gear
 
xanax's Avatar
 
🎧 10 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by Synthpark ➡️
An updated Prophet 10 would be best, with stereo out. With selectable LFO per voice (either global or voice-specific), trigger-to-key or midi clock, positive and negative envelope. Honestly not interested in anything else, as this synth has the best tone, but just lacks a few essential features of the Prophet 6 which would expand the functionality by far. Just yesterday I could convince myself about the tone, but artificial restrictions like the only free running LFO mode are just too silly, deal breaker. If there is only one LFO, this LFO should be really versatile.
well it hasn't kept anybody from recording tons of songs throughout its +40 years of existence so maybe not that silly. And even though there is just one LFO, there is also Poly-Mod for advanced modulation.

Quote:
When I buy a professional camera for 5k from Canon, which as a tool is intented for professional use, I expect certain basic features, and it does deliver these.
what a strange comparison. the P5r3 is not a camera or a phone, its a re-issue of a vintage synth. it certainly delivers on its excellent recreation with a few enhancements. you already have Prophet-6 for a more modern feature rich version. I'd assume the next sequential will be something forward-thinking..
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Old 2nd October 2022 | Show parent
  #7263
Lives for gear
 
cutlery's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by xanax ➡️
I'd assume the next sequential will be something forward-thinking..
Indeed - they've beaten the analog reissues into the dirt already (as has everyone else).

A nextgen Prophet-12/Pro 3 poly (whatever the hell that might be) seems more likely.
Old 2nd October 2022 | Show parent
  #7264
Lives for gear
 
Synthpark's Avatar
 
2 Reviews written
🎧 10 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by decicoop ➡️
Which DAW do you use? If you by any chance have Ableton suite, you can achieve these results that you describe related to sync (but not key-trigger). I have been using this Max4Live device, it's basically a utility which you can put on a midi track (sending midi to the P5/10 via usb on the track's output). You have 16 dials, and you can assign them to any of the available CC messages on the P5/10. Once they are set, you can map LFOs, envelopes, and other modulators (all syncable) to those CCs. It's pretty fun and easy.
I know about such solutions, and you basically mimic an LFO. Although this works, it will never be at the same level of the midi clock solution. Its just an excuse, a strange work around instead of the straight forward, natural solution.

And there is an LFO already, and since this LFO has unusual waveshapes, it can combine different waveforms, it really invites you to use it synchronized to make rhythmic stuff. There isn't much phantasy needed. I believe I suggest something where some users who use it more like a main sound creation machine in the studio may benefit from. But all the reaction, and I didn't expect something on GS, is a sort of defense of what s there. As if I attacked the product.

In fact, based on the theme of this thread, I suggested another synth, a special edition or next revision, which would have small enhancements, like stereo out, LFO sync, negative envelopes, so that no user of this synth would start to moan. Otherwise I would have posted in the P5/P10 thread. Did I do something wrong? For me, that would be the functional sweet spot of this synth, where every element of it, the one envelope, the one LFO could be used in the most elegant way. You don't have to a agree, but for my understading this would be so. Also, the Prophet 10 with the two keyboards has two outputs I believe. You can use unisono, in bitimbral mode with 5 voice polyphony it will react like the P5.

By the way, I downgraded my Novation Peak to an older firmware because I found it more reliable in terms of voice allocation, and it was still in the functional sweet spot, it has 3 envelopes, 2 LFOS, why would I want to add another 2 LFOs and all kind of extras? So I asked the support and they finally gave me the older firmware, not available on the net. I just want to say: it is not about adding more and more, no, it is about giving a synth a reasonable functional palette.

Last edited by Synthpark; 2nd October 2022 at 07:32 AM..
Old 2nd October 2022 | Show parent
  #7265
Lives for gear
 
Synthpark's Avatar
 
2 Reviews written
🎧 10 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by xanax ➡️
well it hasn't kept anybody from recording tons of songs throughout its +40 years of existence so maybe not that silly. And even though there is just one LFO, there is also Poly-Mod for advanced modulation.

what a strange comparison. the P5r3 is not a camera or a phone, its a re-issue of a vintage synth. it certainly delivers on its excellent recreation with a few enhancements. you already have Prophet-6 for a more modern feature rich version. I'd assume the next sequential will be something forward-thinking..
Of course you can use the LFO for vibrato effects as a keyboard player or for scifi and other effects where a certain amount of randomness is fine. But vibrato normally does not use square wave LFO or square wave plus sawtooth LFO. This would make much more sense for beat-related stuff, no?

Or you can use no LFO at all and still record music! Did you know that ? There are the 40 years. Do you believe the sound will suffer when adding simple functions from the P6, OB6, Rev2? Why have these functions been added to those synths if one can record music without? Or why actually has MIDI been added at all? The camera example is a very good one, because normally when you buy a much more expensive camera with a better lense, this camera will cover all basic functions from the cheaper models to make life easier for the user, or better to say for different sorts of users, because apparently there are users which don't need it. I am not going to discuss this any further, let's talk about something else. It's a great sounding instrument, and to make it full use for me, I believe in one-synth-does-it-all, these little enhancements would be great. Case closed.

Not sure how much you are into sound design, synth programming. As you mention Polymod: Polymod greatly benefits from a synced LFO.

Last edited by Synthpark; 2nd October 2022 at 08:04 AM..
Old 2nd October 2022 | Show parent
  #7266
Lives for gear
 
xanax's Avatar
 
🎧 10 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by Synthpark ➡️
Sorry, the way you argue: it's just your personal stubbornness. Of course you can use the LFO for vibrato effects as a keyboard player or for scifi and other effects where a certain amount of randomness is fine. But vibrato normally does not use square wave LFO or square wave plus sawtooth LFO. This would make much more sense for beat-related stuff, no?

Or you can use no LFO at all and still record music! Did you know that ? There are the 40 years. Do you believe the sound will suffer when adding simple functions from the P6, OB6, Rev2? Why have these functions been added to those synths if one can record music without? Or why actually has MIDI been added at all? The camera example is a very good one, because normally when you buy a much more expensive camera with a better lense, this camera will cover all basic functions from the cheaper models to make life easier for the user, or better to say for different sorts of users, because apparently there are users which don't need it. I am not going to discuss this any further, let's talk about something else. It's a great sounding instrument, and to make it full use for me, I believe in one-synth-does-it-all, these little enhancements would be great. Case closed.
Wow talk about being stubborn. You still don't seem to get it: Prophet-5 rev4 is a reissue of a classic synth with minor tweaks that don't affect the sound path. It is a retro product not the modern spin such as Prophet-12/Pro3, nor is it an "inspired by" synth like P6/OB6. And certainly has nothing to do with your Canon R5.

Dave Smith already stated that they thought of adding stereo outs etc but then it wasn't a Prophet-5 they were doing anymore, it was a Prophet-6 (of which some people didn't gel with believe it or not).

Most people are very happy with the way P5/P10 turned out. You are not one of them, boo-hoo. Not a reason to berate the forum, call the design choices silly, and impose your wishlist to others. You are acting like a bully. Not very mature.

Nothing wrong with making suggestions, that is what this thread is about. But your constant need to argue and convince others you are right is pointless. You made your dream synth suggestion. It didn't quite get the response you anticipated. Just move on.

Quote:
Not sure how much you are into sound design, synth programming. As you mention Polymod: Polymod greatly benefits from a synced LFO.
I'm very much into sound design, synth programming. But I manage just fine with the free-running LFO. I have other synths for more complex modulation. FWIW, I am not against sync LFO option, maybe it will come in a firmware update who knows.
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Old 2nd October 2022 | Show parent
  #7267
Lives for gear
 
Synthpark's Avatar
 
2 Reviews written
🎧 10 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by xanax ➡️
Wow talk about being stubborn. You still don't seem to get it: Prophet-5 rev4 is a reissue of a classic synth with minor tweaks that don't affect the sound path. It is a retro product not the modern spin such as Prophet-12/Pro3, nor is it an "inspired by" synth like P6/OB6. And certainly has nothing to do with your Canon R5.
You really don't get it. There are people who have sold their P6/OB6, or P12 just because their found the tone of the "new" reissues more convincing. Functions don't matter if the basic tone is not the same, and vice versa does also apply to some extend. Only basic functions PLUS basic sound character make sense. All-in-one. And we are not debating about synths with 11 LFOs, 5 envelopes etc. I am not buying 5 slightly different cars and put them in a garage of my house, although some people seem to do that (ok, there are a lot of synths here, lol). But since you not against sync, its all good, in any case, enjoy your day!

ps: did the p10 with 2 manuals have stereo out? It was like two p5s. Once again, I asked for a special version, not to drill holes into a p5/p10 reissue! It's no drama, just a product suggestion. Maybe there would be too much overlap with a OBX8, which has these features, I have no idea. I checked both synths (p5, not p10) recently and clearly prefer the P5.

And there is also another reason: stacking two layers results in 4 voice polyphony for OBX8, but for me, 5 voice is minimum in order to play certain chords, this simply feels better, not so constrained. So either stereo with 4 voice, or mono with 5 voice. Or Rev2 but with a completely different tone, DCO. At 4 voices, adding just one voice makes a huge difference. To summarize: A little more Canon R5 product philosophy is very welcome. One last point: The P10 rev4 has 10 voices, and requires a different headroom. If you want to stick to the exact reissue sound in all aspects like saturation, I think you would have to go for the P5 rev4. And in this respect, having a two-channel P10 with 5 voices going to one channel and the other going to the other channel is interesting. And if that synth would cost 500 bucks more, I would still buy it.

Last edited by Synthpark; 2nd October 2022 at 11:16 AM..
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Old 2nd October 2022 | Show parent
  #7268
Lives for gear
 
adydub's Avatar
 
🎧 10 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by cutlery ➡️
Indeed - they've beaten the analog reissues into the dirt already (as has everyone else).

A nextgen Prophet-12/Pro 3 poly (whatever the hell that might be) seems more likely.
I really hope so. Commercially, the reissues and re-imagined (P6/OB6) obviously do well, but I still think there is room for a new, forward looking, deep and powerful, hardware synth. No one has done a high resolution audio mod rate hybrid poly synth with interesting per voice fx yet. Prophet 12 goes some of the way there, I’d absolutely love to see where an evolution of what that started ends up.
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Old 2nd October 2022 | Show parent
  #7269
Lives for gear
 
🎧 5 years
Hey Synthpark, I’m not sure when this quoted part about “accusing you” showed up as there have been several edits to your reply (I do that frequently to my posts too).

But to address your post in its current content, it was not my intention to personally accuse you of insulting the original synth designer.

My point was that the Sequential team had all of these discussions already and, as a team, they decided to 1) not have stereo outputs (Dave himself suggested that adding stereo made it not a Prophet 5). 2) not have per voice LFOs (except via Poly mod) 3) not have syncable LFO(s) 4) not have invertable envelopes.

Your suggestion of a type of “Prophet-10 Special Edition” isn’t a bad one - it sounds really nice. I just very much doubt Sequential will undo their collective decisions they made on the Rev4 to make such a product and do it so quickly after the original release and do it so quickly after the original designer has passed on.

I personally think if they did do such a release, it would look weird after Dave Smith’s recent death. This is totally my opinion and my thoughts and I’m in no way the arbitrator of what is right here and really in no position to have an opinion that matters.

Prophet-6 and Prophet 5/10 Rev4 have so much overlap I have trouble figuring out how they make a new product so similar between them.

I want your suggested synth too! But Sequential very often makes non-overlapping products that are “just out of reach” of what we want. They already decide the Prophet 5/10 Rev 4 is a Rev 4 of a Prophet 5 - that’s the version their whole team decided to make and the limits they put into that product.

LFO MIDI sync for the single LFO? Sure, let’s do it. That’s the most minor request you made and I think the most achievable and I doubt anyone thinks that request is “out of bounds”.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Synthpark ➡️
Dude, you should be very careful before you accuse anyone like that, but big sorry from my side if it sounded like that, some wrongly chosen words from a non-native speaker ^^.
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Old 2nd October 2022
  #7270
Gear Addict
 
I wish I liked the P6 filter design bc its a pretty great sounding synth.
Old 2nd October 2022 | Show parent
  #7271
Lives for gear
 
Synthpark's Avatar
 
2 Reviews written
🎧 10 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by blewis_13 ➡️
Hey Synthpark, I’m not sure when this quoted part about “accusing you” showed up as there have been several edits to your reply (I do that frequently to my posts too).

But to address your post in its current content, it was not my intention to personally accuse you of insulting the original synth designer.

My point was that the Sequential team had all of these discussions already and, as a team, they decided to 1) not have stereo outputs (Dave himself suggested that adding stereo made it not a Prophet 5). 2) not have per voice LFOs (except via Poly mod) 3) not have syncable LFO(s) 4) not have invertable envelopes.

Your suggestion of a type of “Prophet-10 Special Edition” isn’t a bad one - it sounds really nice. I just very much doubt Sequential will undo their collective decisions they made on the Rev4 to make such a product and do it so quickly after the original release and do it so quickly after the original designer has passed on.

I personally think if they did do such a release, it would look weird after Dave Smith’s recent death. This is totally my opinion and my thoughts and I’m in no way the arbitrator of what is right here and really in no position to have an opinion that matters.

Prophet-6 and Prophet 5/10 Rev4 have so much overlap I have trouble figuring out how they make a new product so similar between them.

I want your suggested synth too! But Sequential very often makes non-overlapping products that are “just out of reach” of what we want. They already decide the Prophet 5/10 Rev 4 is a Rev 4 of a Prophet 5 - that’s the version their whole team decided to make and the limits they put into that product.

LFO MIDI sync for the single LFO? Sure, let’s do it. That’s the most minor request you made and I think the most achievable and I doubt anyone thinks that request is “out of bounds”.
Thanks for your posting. I see it the same way. Sometimes these discussions can derail a little. Too much passion for synthesizers.
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Old 2nd October 2022 | Show parent
  #7272
Gear Maniac
 
🎧 5 years
Want more LFO on your synth? Your phone can do that.
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Old 2nd October 2022 | Show parent
  #7273
Lives for gear
Can you imagine if this discussion was in a pub, and the police had to be called because a massive brawl over LFO’s caused grievous bodily harm and destruction of public property?

When your wife picks you up from the police station… how do you explain it to her?
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