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Kenton Midi developing a Pro Midi Patchbay
Old 14th May 2019
  #1
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Coorec's Avatar
 
🎧 5 years
Kenton Midi developing a Pro Midi Patchbay

I didnt find a thread, nor video coverage, so i thought i'd tell you guys

At Superbooth the Kenton Midi guys showed me a prototype of their new serious midi patchbay.

The younger folks around here may not know what that even is, since they grew up with midi interfaces and DAWs, but the experienced live keyboarder will know the value.

We didnt get much into details, but we shared email adresses and he promised me to keep me informed.


Here is what little i could gather:

8 midi in/out
4 USB host
128 Patches
everything can be set up on the box (display and knobs)
no need for a computer (although it can be configured with computer too)
Typical merge, split function

can probably work as midi interface too

Its supposed to be released in 3 months. Estimated price was like 350 quid / 400 Euro.

Since my PMM 88 died last year and my MIO 10 is kind of a constant disappointment (Windows problems, problems with other midi controllers like Maschine, no presets, needs computer to setup etc.) this is kind of huge for me.

Thought i'd share, becasue it kind of flew below the radar.


EDIT: Name is Interchanger. More detailed information and pictures in post number 19.
Old 14th May 2019
  #2
Gear Guru
 
EvilDragon's Avatar
 
🎧 5 years
Interesting stuff. Bit on expensive side (compared to Alyseum U3-88c), but if it can be daisy-chained for more channels beyond 2 units (what U3-88c supports), that's cool. Also very neat that it doesn't need the computer (Alyseum's does need it). Hmmmm, interesting!
Old 14th May 2019
  #3
Gear Head
 
musosolus's Avatar
 
🎧 10 years
Thanks for sharing. I am definitely looking for something modern like this. I want to have a DAW-less rig and DAW connected rig available with one shared connectivity layout. Configuration presets would be sweet here. I know there are a few other products on the market that have some or most of the features I would like - but there have been enough down sides to keep me waiting. Looking forward to what Kenton is cooking up!
Old 14th May 2019 | Show parent
  #4
Gear Head
 
musosolus's Avatar
 
🎧 10 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by EvilDragon ➑️
Interesting stuff. Bit on expensive side (compared to Alyseum U3-88c), but if it can be daisy-chained for more channels beyond 2 units (what U3-88c supports), that's cool. Also very neat that it doesn't need the computer (Alyseum's does need it). Hmmmm, interesting!
EvilDragon - I had never checked out the Alyseum devices before. Wow those are also kind of awesome. And now I know who designed that unique setup for Vangelis!
Old 14th May 2019
  #5
Gear Guru
 
EvilDragon's Avatar
 
🎧 5 years
@ Coorec Was it a rack unit? If yes, I am hoping ALL the ports are in the back. I hate it when they put 7 I/O on the back and one in front. I don't ever need the front ones, I want my MIDI stuff to be in the back since it's all static anyways.

If anything, duplicate one set of I/O in front, make it switchable with the ones on the back (mutually exclusive - if you have back I/O connected, and you connect something to front, it automatically disables the back I/O and patches front I/O in). But have all 8 sets of I/O on the back, that's where it's at for me.
Old 14th May 2019
  #6
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usedtohaveajuno's Avatar
 
🎧 5 years
It's pricey but in my experience Kenton gear is rock solid and reliable, plus I don't mind paying small companies for their expertise and quality.
Old 14th May 2019
  #7
Lives for gear
 
JayTee4303's Avatar
 
🎧 5 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by Coorec ➑️
I didnt find a thread, nor video coverage, so i thought i'd tell you guys

At Superbooth the Kenton Midi guys showed me a prototype of their new serious midi patchbay.

The younger folks around here may not know what that even is, since they grew up with midi interfaces and DAWs, but the experienced live keyboarder will know the value.

We didnt get much into details, but we shared email adresses and he promised me to keep me informed.


Here is what little i could gather:

8 midi in/out
4 USB host
128 Patches
everything can be set up on the box (display and knobs)
no need for a computer (although it can be configured with computer too)
Typical merge, split function

can probably work as midi interface too

Its supposed to be released in 3 months. Estimated price was like 350 quid / 400 Euro.

Since my PMM 88 died last year and my MIO 10 is kind of a constant disappointment (Windows problems, problems with other midi controllers like Maschine, no presets, needs computer to setup etc.) this is kind of huge for me.

Thought i'd share, becasue it kind of flew below the radar..
It's a shame your Mio-10 isn't getting you where you need to go. I had some early troubles with mine, but now its a forgetable rock, quietly passing MIDI data so well I don't pay much attention to it.

A LOT of MIDI data. 16 ports x 16 channels from PC A, again from PC B, one or two ports x 16 channels from PC C and D. Just... wow.

It does take a PC to set up, no way around that, but once its set, its set.

A lot of my problems were resolved in sequencing power-up. Power to the racks, including the Mio-10, first. Wait till it fully boots, then power up synths, controllers and the USB hub. PCs last, after checking that synth traffic, both DIN and USB, lights up the right Mio-10 LEDs.

I STILL have to remind myself that a hardware Mio-10 MIDI Out to a synth, SENDS MIDI OUT to a synth, (duh), while a Mio-10 MIDI Out to a PC is actually that PC's MIDI IN.

Seems logical enough, until you work with other USB MIDI ports, where an In is ALSO the PC's In.

A MidiSport 4x4 IS the PC... while the Mio-10 sits BETWEEN PCs.

My controllers are class compliant Akais and one Alesis. Non-class compliant devices, like a Fishman Triple Play, Roland HPD-20, and an Akai LPD-20, go directly to PCs, where the drivers can do their jobs.


From there, my problems just went away. I hope you can get it working to your satisfaction, at $400 retail, it should be a solid performer for you, like it is for me.
Old 14th May 2019 | Show parent
  #8
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Coorec's Avatar
 
🎧 5 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by EvilDragon ➑️
@ Coorec Was it a rack unit? If yes, I am hoping ALL the ports are in the back.
Yes, its 1U.

I wouldnt bet my first born on it, but if i remember correctly the USB and MIDI ports were all at the back. I am really not sure tho. 3 days of trade show, too many impressions to be certain.
Old 14th May 2019 | Show parent
  #9
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Coorec's Avatar
 
🎧 5 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by JayTee4303 ➑️
A MidiSport 4x4 IS the PC... while the Mio-10 sits BETWEEN PCs.
Thats what i have too. But i have to cater towards 3 different workflows (composition, production and audition/gigs). Mio has no presets, hence the setup needs to be changed frequently. And thats where the trouble has its source for me. Communication aint working properly as soon as a windows PC in in the setup. I am tired of testing and checking further. It keeps frustrating me since more than a year already.

And Kenton is known for working Midi stuff without any hassle since decades.
Old 14th May 2019
  #10
Gear Maniac
How is a patch bay different than a thru box?
Old 14th May 2019
  #11
Gear Guru
 
EvilDragon's Avatar
 
🎧 5 years
Thru box just copies an input to multiple outputs, patchbay allows any-to-any routing, and some more advanced ones allow filtering particular types of MIDI messages, etc...
Old 14th May 2019
  #12
Gear Addict
 
🎧 5 years
wish i had caught the kenton gents at the fair to see this. by the time i got to their stand in the gymnasium, it looked like they had packed up and gone back to the UK.

Last edited by millionmiles; 14th May 2019 at 09:03 PM.. Reason: redundancy
Old 14th May 2019 | Show parent
  #13
Gear Addict
 
Rtroost's Avatar
Very interested! Hate the complexity of the iconnectivity stuff.
Love the kenton bits i have in my rig. Have proven robust in live work.

Quote:
Originally Posted by JayTee4303 ➑️
My controllers are class compliant Akais and one Alesis. Non-class compliant devices, like a Fishman Triple Play, Roland HPD-20, and an Akai LPD-20, go directly to PCs, where the drivers can do their jobs.
Fwiw i have run triple play into the kenton midi usb host without a machine or drivers; worked a treat. Not sure about class compliance but it has worked for me.
Old 15th May 2019 | Show parent
  #14
Lives for gear
 
StepLogik's Avatar
 
🎧 5 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by EvilDragon ➑️
I am hoping ALL the ports are in the back. I hate it when they put 7 I/O on the back and one in front. I don't ever need the front ones, I want my MIDI stuff to be in the back since it's all static anyways.

If anything, duplicate one set of I/O in front, make it switchable with the ones on the back (mutually exclusive - if you have back I/O connected, and you connect something to front, it automatically disables the back I/O and patches front I/O in). But have all 8 sets of I/O on the back, that's where it's at for me.
Complete agreement. This is how it should be done.
Old 16th May 2019 | Show parent
  #15
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JayTee4303's Avatar
 
🎧 5 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by Coorec ➑️
Thats what i have too. But i have to cater towards 3 different workflows (composition, production and audition/gigs). Mio has no presets, hence the setup needs to be changed frequently. And thats where the trouble has its source for me. Communication aint working properly as soon as a windows PC in in the setup. I am tired of testing and checking further. It keeps frustrating me since more than a year already.

And Kenton is known for working Midi stuff without any hassle since decades.
I get frustration. It's your call there. Sounds like a bad unit to me. I have 4 PCs in to the Mio-10 here, two via USB-B, two via DIN. Zero issues.

I have a boatload of configuration presets I've created here, and CAN switch at will, but I've honed the current one and can cover most workflows from there.

Whatever it takes, I hope you get your rig running the way you want it. I like my MIDI behind the scenes, functional, but not in my face while making music. Best of luck.
Old 16th May 2019
  #16
Gear Head
 
This sounds really good! I have been thinking about how to route multi-channel MIDI in my setup. 16 channels runs out really fast when using MPE, so I can't really use channels to send MIDI data to specific devices. Having researched the market a bit, I basically only found the iConnectivity stuff and Motu's Express series. iConnectivity lacks presets (on the device) and both require a computer to setup so I have been kinda hesitant.

If this has filtering and preset changing through MIDI, it's more or less perfect for my needs.
Old 16th May 2019 | Show parent
  #17
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gravyface's Avatar
 
1 Review written
🎧 5 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by ilmai ➑️
This sounds really good! I have been thinking about how to route multi-channel MIDI in my setup. 16 channels runs out really fast when using MPE, so I can't really use channels to send MIDI data to specific devices. Having researched the market a bit, I basically only found the iConnectivity stuff and Motu's Express series. iConnectivity lacks presets (on the device) and both require a computer to setup so I have been kinda hesitant.

If this has filtering and preset changing through MIDI, it's more or less perfect for my needs.
I picked up an old MOTU Express XT for like 40 bucks. No driver/parallel port support, but the standalone presets cover a lot of ground: Merge All, Merge Some (split), Live Keyboards (send to all but your own matching out), etc.
Old 16th May 2019
  #18
Here for the gear
 
I checked out the Kenton unit as well. Looks great so far. Time for me to start off-loading my function junctions, studio 5s and miditemps. :-)
Old 16th May 2019
  #19
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Coorec's Avatar
 
🎧 5 years
Name: Interchanger

I asked Kenton Midi if they could provide some pictures and they did. Also some more detailed information.

Quote:
You're welcome to share these photos online, although please be aware that we retain the copyright.

I'd also like to reinforce that these are pictures of a prototype unit
and do not necessarily reflect the complete feature set or fit and
finish of the final shipping product.

Here's some more information about the product. Again, this is how it is
at the moment and things may change in the shipping product.

- 8x DIN MIDI inputs and outputs. All 8 I/Os are on the back panel, but
I/O 7 & 8 are also duplicated on the front. Whether the unit will use
the front or back inputs for 7 & 8 is set in the options.

- 4x USB 'host' ports - much like our MIDI USB Host product, these can
host a class-compliant USB MIDI peripheral. The Interchanger supports up
to 4x USB MIDI devices at once.

- 1x USB 'device' port - this allows the Interchanger to be connected to
a computer and appears to the computer as 4x pairs of MIDI inputs and
outputs, which can be used in the Interchanger's routing matrix.

- 16x16 internal routing matrix. Any combination of inputs can be routed
to any combination of outputs; with merging, filtering, and MIDI
transform operations.

- Fully programmable on the unit itself (as well as via a planned editor
program). Up to 128 programs can be stored and recalled, as well as 128
scenes. The current program / scene number is displayed on its own
7-segment display for maximum visibility.

- Unit can send out a full set of program changes for each scene.

- Dual assignable footswitch inputs, can be configured to step through
scenes for example.

- Names can be assigned to programs, scenes and maybe MIDI ports.

- The ability to link multiple units together to expand the routing
matrix is something we plan to implement, however we are not yet fully
decided on how multiple units will connect together. This may be an
additional port on the back of the unit.

- 1U rack unit with removable ears.

There will no doubt be other things it can do, but these are the main
things we were telling people at the Superbooth show. We're hoping to
have these in production in 3 months time, and the price is currently
somewhere in the region of Β£350 + VAT.

Kind regards,
Attached Thumbnails
Kenton Midi developing a Pro Midi Patchbay-angle.jpg   Kenton Midi developing a Pro Midi Patchbay-back.jpg   Kenton Midi developing a Pro Midi Patchbay-front.jpg  
Old 16th May 2019
  #20
Gear Guru
 
EvilDragon's Avatar
 
🎧 5 years
OK... these guys are reading my mind. Perfect stuff!
Old 16th May 2019
  #21
Gear Head
I've got a MIO 10 which for the most part has performed well. It's pretty easy to configure it quickly once you've got your head round the iConfig software which is non intuitive. This does sound good though. I'm particularly interested in how the routing would work. I tend to work from one or two master keyboards changing the midi channels on them to control different devices but it would be useful to be able to do thinks like output on channel 2 from device 1 which is then routed to device 2 and the data is remapped to channel 1, that kind of stuff isn't the easiest to do on the Mio. Being able to store presets on the device as well would be reasonable useful as I tend to operate a DAW setup, a dawless setup and a live band setup all of which have differing midi requirements. Also I wonder if USB ports will only pass MIDI data
Old 17th May 2019
  #22
Gear Head
 
musosolus's Avatar
 
🎧 10 years
Yes! This is looking great. Question for those who saw this at Superbooth - will this function as a MIDI interface (8 groups of 16 MIDI channels) in addition to being a standalone patchbay? I know it’s early - but I’m ready for a manual on this baby!
Old 17th May 2019
  #23
Lives for gear
 
🎧 10 years
I have the AL-88 running through network/copperlan.

I wonder if this unit could reduce the MIDI lag even more.

I will spend tons of cash to reduce the lag of the following chain.
Trigger-Triger/Midi converter-MIDI-Computer-DAW-Plug-Sample-Playback-DA-outboard-AD-DAW/mix-DA-Monitor system.

The Trigger/Midi converters are the worst part of the chain. They need 3ms. Every other step I am currently under 1ms
Old 17th May 2019 | Show parent
  #24
Lives for gear
 
🎧 10 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by musosolus ➑️
Yes! This is looking great. Question for those who saw this at Superbooth - will this function as a MIDI interface (8 groups of 16 MIDI channels) in addition to being a standalone patchbay? I know it’s early - but I’m ready for a manual on this baby!
It sounds like it would work as a 4 in and 4 out USB MIDI interface:

"- 1x USB 'device' port - this allows the Interchanger to be connected to
a computer and appears to the computer as 4x pairs of MIDI inputs and
outputs, which can be used in the Interchanger's routing matrix."

Then there's the question of drivers. Class compliant or custom ones?

If you're sending MIDI from a DAW, surely having enough MIDI ports would be enough. The ESI M8U eX looks intriguing. 16 MIDI ports that can work as either an In or Out, and you can hook another one up with its own hardware ID so you could get 32 MIDI Outs, enough for a big collection. It has a standalone patchbay mode too. Custom drivers that claim great timing.

https://www.esi-audio.com/products/m8uex/

https://translate.google.com/transla...u-ex-m4u-ex%2F
Old 17th May 2019
  #25
Gear Nut
 
🎧 10 years
Shame it’s a wall wart.
Old 17th May 2019
  #26
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Bignatius's Avatar
Oooh, those photos reveal the sort of box I'd buy.
Old 17th May 2019 | Show parent
  #27
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Rob Ocelot's Avatar
 
🎧 10 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by usedtohaveajuno ➑️
It's pricey but in my experience Kenton gear is rock solid and reliable, plus I don't mind paying small companies for their expertise and quality.
Kenton has always been pricier but their products are buit like tanks within tanks. Simple interfaces that aren't fancy but they get the job done and are easy for non-techny musicians to grok. Plus they were around doing MIDI stuff (upgrades, CV converters, etc) when no one else bothered.
Old 17th May 2019
  #28
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Mushy Mushy's Avatar
 
🎧 10 years
In. Love Kenton gear. Never let me down.
Old 17th May 2019
  #29
Lives for gear
 
🎧 10 years
Typical - just got a new Alyseum 8x8 in the post this morning ... I wonder when this will be available?

Last edited by dr_Jezz; 18th May 2019 at 10:00 AM.. Reason: Typo due to unfamiliarity with a new toy
Old 17th May 2019
  #30
Gear Guru
 
EvilDragon's Avatar
 
🎧 5 years
They say in about 3 months.
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