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Kurzweil PC4
Old 24th February 2021 | Show parent
  #2491
Gear Addict
 
🎧 5 years
Haven't bought a keyboard for years. Finally bought a new one a few days ago.

It's not bad actually. Kawai ES920. Weighted action and 88 notes.
Old 25th February 2021 | Show parent
  #2492
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abruzzi's Avatar
 
🎧 5 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by madprof ➡️
Right now the only competition to the PC4 seems to be a used PC3K8 but prices for these are crazy. A new PC4 is better value, albeit with no sampling.
Theis statement seems to imply that the PC3K8 has sampling, which it doesn’t. The last Kurzweil with sampling was the K2600 line (last released was the K2661.)
Old 25th February 2021 | Show parent
  #2493
Gear Head
I stand corrected then. I wonder if the new K2700 will end up having sampling? I can't see it on the feature list. Then again this going to be a lot more expensive than the PC4 so it isn't really a competitor.
Old 27th February 2021 | Show parent
  #2494
Here for the gear
 
Received an update today that mine will be shipped "sometime" in March. I didn't place my pre-order until late in the game -- mid-January -- so having it in March is a bit earlier than I was expecting.
Old 27th February 2021 | Show parent
  #2495
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duplobaustein's Avatar
 
🎧 10 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by madprof ➡️
I stand corrected then. I wonder if the new K2700 will end up having sampling? I can't see it on the feature list. Then again this going to be a lot more expensive than the PC4 so it isn't really a competitor.
Could definitely come with updates.
Old 27th February 2021 | Show parent
  #2496
Lives for gear
 
🎧 10 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by duplobaustein ➡️
Could definitely come with updates.
I doubt sampling is something that could come with updates, since it needs hardware (analog-to-digital converters, the opposite of DACs) which the board probably doesn't have.
Old 27th February 2021 | Show parent
  #2497
Lives for gear
 
🎧 10 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by anotherscott ➡️
I doubt sampling is something that could come with updates, since it needs hardware (analog-to-digital converters, the opposite of DACs) which the board probably doesn't have.
Pretty sure ADC's are needed to run external audio through the fx, so they're already there.
As is sample memory.
Old 27th February 2021 | Show parent
  #2498
Here for the gear
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by felis ➡️
Pretty sure ADC's are needed to run external audio through the fx, so they're already there.
As is sample memory.
Yes to both those statements.

I've been confused about what people mean by "sampling":

1) Does it mean that there's writeable memory available for user-created samples, and those samples can be used in all the same ways as the built-in samples?

2) Or does it mean it can do all that, and *also* that those samples can be captured and created by the board itself? (As opposed to being created somewhere else and then imported from a USB drive or whatever.)

I'd always assumed "sampling" referred to the first feature, but it seems most people take it to mean number 2.

So, to be clear, the PC4 and K2700 support 1 but not 2.

No idea how hard it would be to add support for 2. Seems safest to assume that existing boards will be in bugfix-only mode and any efforts towards new features would focus on the next project, whatever that might be.
Old 27th February 2021 | Show parent
  #2499
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duplobaustein's Avatar
 
🎧 10 years
Correct, now both support 1 (sample loading), but not 2 (recording samples on board). 2 could come with OS updates, because there has to be a analog to digital converter to apply FX to the audio in.
Old 27th February 2021 | Show parent
  #2500
Lives for gear
 
🎧 10 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by felis ➡️
Pretty sure ADC's are needed to run external audio through the fx, so they're already there.
Good point.

Quote:
Originally Posted by bfields ➡️
I've been confused about what people mean by "sampling":

1) Does it mean that there's writeable memory available for user-created samples, and those samples can be used in all the same ways as the built-in samples?

2) Or does it mean it can do all that, and *also* that those samples can be captured and created by the board itself? (As opposed to being created somewhere else and then imported from a USB drive or whatever.)

I'd always assumed "sampling" referred to the first feature, but it seems most people take it to mean number 2.

So, to be clear, the PC4 and K2700 support 1 but not 2.
Yes, sampling means #2 (almost*), and yes, those Kurzweils already support #1 .

Other boards that are not samplers but support #1 include Yamaha Montage/MODX (and MOXF with optional memory board), Nord Electro (3 and up), Nord Stage (2 and up), assorted Dexibells. Having on-board sampling is less important than it used to be, because people typically have better sampling capabilities in their computers than what's been built into keyboards anyway. So as long as you have a computer that you can sample (and edit the samples) with, the only part many (most?) people really need in the keyboard is the ability to store, manipulate, and play them.

* - The reason I said "almost" is that #2 does not necessarily include *all* the capabilities you listed under #1 . For example, the Roland FA includes sampling, but those samples cannot "be used in all the same ways as the built-in samples." The user samples are used primarily to be triggerd by the sample pads. You cannot edit/map them into fully keyboard-playable sounds like you can with the built-in samples. But this is uncommon. Most boards that let you sample also let you edit/map them into fully keyboard playable sounds.
Old 27th February 2021
  #2501
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duplobaustein's Avatar
 
🎧 10 years
I don't need on board sampling at all tbh.
Old 27th February 2021 | Show parent
  #2502
Lives for gear
 
🎧 10 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by duplobaustein ➡️
I don't need on board sampling at all tbh.
I don't either. Much easier with a computer.
But a lot of people seem to see it as a big selling point.

If you wanted to sample a lot of varied type indoor and outdoor sounds,
a portable field unit would make more sense than a big keyboard.
Old 27th February 2021 | Show parent
  #2503
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syntonica's Avatar
 
1 Review written
🎧 10 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by duplobaustein ➡️
I don't need on board sampling at all tbh.
Resampling would be quite convenient, however.

Sampling mostly depends on how much free RAM is available as I'm doubtful it could be buffered and written out on a timely basis.
Old 28th February 2021 | Show parent
  #2504
Lives for gear
 
🎧 10 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by syntonica ➡️
Resampling would be quite convenient, however.

Sampling mostly depends on how much free RAM is available as I'm doubtful it could be buffered and written out on a timely basis.
Resampling could be useful if you're wanting to conserve fx units,
or want to have baked in layered instruments or whatever.
With 256 voices and 32 fx units available, I don't think it'd be a major concern though.

Still - you'd have to multisample if you want to avoid the munchkin effect,
and then there's looping everything.

Can be fun, but pretty time consuming.
Sampling has never been one of my favorite things.
Old 28th February 2021
  #2505
Here for the gear
 
I just got my PC4 just a few days ago, its an amazing controller (I just upgraded from PC3)
Still, I wonder if any of you guys know if there is a way to control any of the pc4 controllers via another device (I have a FCB1010). I have programmed scenes to the assignable switch buttons, but I would like to know if I can control those switch buttons with my FCB1010 so I could keep playing with both hands while changing through those scenes using my foot.
Another thing I would like to do is while Im at the QA Banks, instead of having to press the numeric keys, be able to use my FCB Controller to change any of the MULTIS (I usually just use multis) on the QA BANK Im at that moment.
Thanks
Old 28th February 2021
  #2506
Lives for gear
 
duplobaustein's Avatar
 
🎧 10 years
Those buttons are just physical controllers, that are mapped to CCs. You can perfectly control the PC4 from external, but only those CCs. If slider 1 is set to CC11 in one Multi and to CC7 on another Multi, you have to send the proper CC to control what those sliders control. There is no way to globally control the on board controllers.
Old 28th February 2021 | Show parent
  #2507
Here for the gear
 
Thanks for the reply; the issue with a specific CC on a specific MULTI is that each button can have different CCs (1 per zone)

I just found this:

http://karma-lab.wikidot.com/misc:fi...sysex-messages

Its not from a Kurzweil forum but I think is related to what I would like to accomplish, as far as I understand, it should be possible; if not for the assignable switch buttons, maybe at least for the numeric keypad.
Old 28th February 2021 | Show parent
  #2508
Here for the gear
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by symphmind ➡️
Thanks for the reply; the issue with a specific CC on a specific MULTI is that each button can have different CCs (1 per zone)

I just found this:

http://karma-lab.wikidot.com/misc:fi...sysex-messages

Its not from a Kurzweil forum but I think is related to what I would like to accomplish, as far as I understand, it should be possible; if not for the assignable switch buttons, maybe at least for the numeric keypad.
I'm not aware of any documentation of PC4 sysex messages, I'd be curious if anyone finds any.
Old 28th February 2021 | Show parent
  #2509
Here for the gear
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by symphmind ➡️
Another thing I would like to do is while Im at the QA Banks, instead of having to press the numeric keys, be able to use my FCB Controller to change any of the MULTIS (I usually just use multis) on the QA BANK Im at that moment.
Thanks
If you set Global->MIDI->Program Change Mode to Quick Access, then you can choose from QA banks by sending program change messages. That might be what you need--I'm not sure how your pedal works.

You can also set attached switch pedals to "Quick Acc Inc"/"Quick Acc Dec" to step through quick access banks--see p. 9-14 of the manual. I don't know if there's a way to do the same over MIDI.
Old 28th February 2021
  #2510
Lives for gear
 
duplobaustein's Avatar
 
🎧 10 years
There are not so many sysex documentations for Kurzweil boards out there. Maybe you find something at the Mastering VAST forum.
Old 8th March 2021
  #2511
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Fleer's Avatar
 
🎧 5 years
Playing the PC4-7
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=bqsz2_wfr7E
Old 11th March 2021
  #2512
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Fleer's Avatar
 
🎧 5 years
Italian importer GS is listing a price difference of €280 between PC4 and PC4-7:
GENERALSOUND
Kurzweil PC4 €1.980,00
Kurzweil PC4-7 €1.700,00
Old 11th March 2021 | Show parent
  #2513
Lives for gear
 
I must say I do not like its sound

I find it terribly cold, digital, bright, 90s like workstation. Lacks depth and warmth in the sound. Almost as bright as the MODX, which is among the worst.

For worse, it has the same problem that many workstations and keyboards around

Some samples have way narrower stereo image than others. Almost mono. That's quite annoying.

At least it seems it doesn't have the volume problems between sounds, unlike Korg.

Whatever happened with the richer and more analog-like sound of the PC3
Old 11th March 2021 | Show parent
  #2514
Lives for gear
 
🎧 10 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by ponkine ➡️
Some samples have way narrower stereo image than others. Almost mono. That's quite annoying.
Most samples in most workstations (and other sample based boards) are mono (stereo-ness more often comes from the effects, or from panning multiple mono instruments). And that makes sense, because most real world single instruments have very little stereo spread to them, if any.

Quote:
Originally Posted by ponkine ➡️
Whatever happened with the richer and more analog-like sound of the PC3
Hmmm... I haven't had a PC3-series board in a long time. Though sometimes the "lower fidelity" of older gear can also give it an "analog-like richness." For a more extreme example, if you look at older samplers from the pre 16-bit days (like the 12-bit or even 8-bit samplers), you might sense an "analog richness" you don't experience in the more pristine later generations... it could be the "flaws" that you are missing. There's a long history of people saying that the older boards had "something" missing from their replacements Korg players who think later boards didn't sound as good as the Triton series, Yamaha players who preferred earlier Motifs over later ones, and so forth.

Other than the PC3, is there anything else you've liked? (Since besides the PC4, you also mentioned not liking the MODX or Korgs, albeit for different reasons.) Rolands maybe?
Old 12th March 2021 | Show parent
  #2515
Gear Head
I went and bought a PC4. It's great but I've found a weird backup problem.

I have 5000-odd user objects and if one particular program and a chain are included in there it not only fails to backup it dumps me to System Mode.

I can backup all objects apart from that program and that chain. Including either of them in the list of objects to backup will dump me to System Mode.

Any thoughts on what might be causing this?

Latest OS (1.09) and has Sweetwater and Weisersound libraries on it. However as I bought this unit second hand I don't know the history of the sound sets and OS installation. The current state is how I bought it.

Should I report this to Kurzweil themselves? Do they have any mechanism for reporting this sort of strange behaviour? (Going via a distributor seems a bit weird)
Old 12th March 2021 | Show parent
  #2516
Lives for gear
 
🎧 10 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hambones ➡️
Received an update today that mine will be shipped "sometime" in March. I didn't place my pre-order until late in the game -- mid-January -- so having it in March is a bit earlier than I was expecting.

Which one did you pre-order: PC4, PC4-7, or K2700?
Old 12th March 2021 | Show parent
  #2517
Lives for gear
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by ponkine ➡️
I must say I do not like its sound

I find it terribly cold, digital, bright, 90s like workstation. Lacks depth and warmth in the sound. Almost as bright as the MODX, which is among the worst.

For worse, it has the same problem that many workstations and keyboards around

Some samples have way narrower stereo image than others. Almost mono. That's quite annoying.

At least it seems it doesn't have the volume problems between sounds, unlike Korg.

Whatever happened with the richer and more analog-like sound of the PC3
On my Kronos, every time I switch to a preset combi, I have to go check its EQ page. Same thing when you audition a new sound within a combi, it comes with its saved preset EQ. And they just love to goose the high frequencies. Not only the EQ page - they also usually slap a parametric with hi boost on the TFX/MFX page. Tricky bastids. There's usually a bass boost too, fwiw. I think the full name of the Triton Extreme was probably "Triton, Extreme EQ" but there were too many characters, so they shortened it.

I'm sure that's not the only reason they seem bright, but it's a contributing factor, with Korgs at least. I can't speak to Kurzweil's EQ habits, but it wouldn't surprise me if they also err on the side of brightness, rather than risk being called a dullard by someone listening thru Guitar Center's finest monitoring setup.

Korgs should have a setting that toggles everything's EQ curve between "store/demo" and "home".
Old 12th March 2021 | Show parent
  #2518
Here for the gear
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by felis ➡️
Which one did you pre-order: PC4, PC4-7, or K2700?
PC4-7
Old 12th March 2021 | Show parent
  #2519
Lives for gear
 
🎧 10 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hambones ➡️
PC4-7
Looking forward to a pic or two when you get it, and your overall impression of it.
Have you had Kurzweil stuff before?
Old 12th March 2021
  #2520
Lives for gear
 
Fleer's Avatar
 
🎧 5 years
Come to think of it, one of the unique things I love about the PC4 is how bold its curve or slant is, the way its back is pushed up like a fine lady’s behind, as sexy as a classic car’s boot. None of the other Kurzweils have this. Not the Forte, nor the PC3 or K2 series, not even the PC4-7.
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