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Behringer UB-Xa Synthesizer
Old 13th February 2018
  #1471
Registered User
 
🎧 5 years
It would be amazing if the UBXa had the same degree of CV integration that the Oberheim Expander vintage module does, with individual CV/Gate per voice, and individual audio outs per voice.
Old 13th February 2018 | Show parent
  #1472
Registered User
 
🎧 5 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by RunnyKine ➡️
It would be amazing if the UBXa had the same degree of CV integration that the Oberheim Expander vintage module does, with individual CV/Gate per voice, and individual audio outs per voice.
It also makes the product more expensive because you're essentially piping all those CVs into an individual analog-digital converter each, plus 5v+ tolerant digital input for the gate, plus per voice op-amp strong enough to drive an exposed output, plus all the connectors required per channel and needing an enclosure large enough.
Old 13th February 2018
  #1473
Registered User
 
🎧 5 years
Certainly.

Still much less expensive than either of the originals, I'd wager.

But yes, no feature is free. And this set of features is exceptionally rare, and just something I'd like to see more of. And since everyone is making suggestions...
Old 13th February 2018 | Show parent
  #1474
Lives for gear
 
kurzweil's Avatar
 
🎧 5 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by earlevel ➡️
The expander idea is not so bad, because then people could choose, but it makes little business sense for Behringer. A small fraction of those buying the 'Xa would add the expander, at best. Like I said before, if it's that important I think your best bet is to lobby for chaining. I'm not asking for that feature personally—I have an OB-8, and have never once felt it was a shortcoming to not have 16 voices. When I had a Prophet 5 before it, yes, I wanted a few more voices.
Yes, I understand. I'm going to continue to play 'fantasy football' and ignore the business implications, but I take your point completely.

I'm speculating that some additional digital modulation access points could be built into the design of the basic voice card and then accessed (if necessary) from a separate unit if the objective is to keep the project as pure to the original as possible. Maybe that separate unit could just be a small add-on box with some additional controls to access the 'hidden' software functions, for example. In my view this would kill two birds with one stone: a clone with the potential to add some 21st century sound design options.

I can't stop imagining what it would sound like to modulate PW, pitch, and filter with different LFOs, or use the voice number to modulate parameters to create wild offsets between voices when playing chords, etc, etc.
Old 14th February 2018 | Show parent
  #1475
Lives for gear
 
Heinakroon's Avatar
 
🎧 5 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by kurzweil ➡️
Yes, I understand. I'm going to continue to play 'fantasy football' and ignore the business implications, but I take your point completely.

I'm speculating that some additional digital modulation access points could be built into the design of the basic voice card and then accessed (if necessary) from a separate unit if the objective is to keep the project as pure to the original as possible. Maybe that separate unit could just be a small add-on box with some additional controls to access the 'hidden' software functions, for example. In my view this would kill two birds with one stone: a clone with the potential to add some 21st century sound design options.

I can't stop imagining what it would sound like to modulate PW, pitch, and filter with different LFOs, or use the voice number to modulate parameters to create wild offsets between voices when playing chords, etc, etc.
If all the pots will receive MIDI we can still modulate each PW, pitch etc separately with external LFOs or envelopes.
Old 14th February 2018 | Show parent
  #1476
Registered User
 
🎧 5 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by kurzweil ➡️
Yes, I understand. I'm going to continue to play 'fantasy football' and ignore the business implications, but I take your point completely.

I'm speculating that some additional digital modulation access points could be built into the design of the basic voice card and then accessed (if necessary) from a separate unit if the objective is to keep the project as pure to the original as possible. Maybe that separate unit could just be a small add-on box with some additional controls to access the 'hidden' software functions, for example. In my view this would kill two birds with one stone: a clone with the potential to add some 21st century sound design options.

I can't stop imagining what it would sound like to modulate PW, pitch, and filter with different LFOs, or use the voice number to modulate parameters to create wild offsets between voices when playing chords, etc, etc.
Dude, that's not an OB-XA reissue, that's more like an ESQ-1 reissue no? Or maybe a Matrix 12 reissue, which would actually make sense for Behringer.

"Digital modulation access points" in my mind sounds like an avenue for tons of OS bugs and synths shipping late, and it's how you end up with something like the Hartmann neuron. Sorry but that's my professional experience
Old 14th February 2018 | Show parent
  #1477
Lives for gear
 
🎧 10 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by Heinakroon ➡️
If all the pots will receive MIDI we can still modulate each PW, pitch etc separately with external LFOs or envelopes.
I have a Vermona MONO Lancet which implements PW control from MIDI Mod wheel. Changing PW dynamically by mod wheel sounds steppy and not nice because of the 127 CC values and slow transmission rate of MIDI.

Personally I don't even need to see parameter control by CC, especially if it means control resolution is limited to 127 steps. No idea what the resolution of the knobs on an OBXa is but if it's not high I'd like to see an enhancement here to prevent stepping generally.
Old 14th February 2018 | Show parent
  #1478
Gear Guru
 
Jamie munro's Avatar
 
🎧 5 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ntropic ➡️
I have a Vermona MONO Lancet which implements PW control from MIDI Mod wheel. Changing PW dynamically by mod wheel sounds steppy and not nice because of the 127 CC values and slow transmission rate of MIDI.

Personally I don't even need to see parameter control by CC, especially if it means control resolution is limited to 127 steps. No idea what the resolution of the knobs on an OBXa is but if it's not high I'd like to see an enhancement here to prevent stepping generally.
That's a pretty sad design then and I seriously doubt this will have such steppy mod via cc based on their recent offering/s. It's not 1984 so why any manufacturer would implement 127 steps anymore is beyond me.
Old 14th February 2018 | Show parent
  #1479
Lives for gear
 
🎧 10 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jamie munro ➡️
That's a pretty sad design then and I seriously doubt this will have such steppy mod via cc based on their recent offering/s. It's not 1984 so why any manufacturer would implement 127 steps anymore is beyond me.
Thing is, even if you go beyond 127 steps (e.g. using NRPNs,) I would have thought the data transmission rate of MIDI makes anything other than slow modulation rates (eg. from a MIDI LFO) unworkable. Throw in some other concurrent MIDI modulation, some notes and a bit of pitch bend and aftertouch and the data stream must get pretty clogged? I've not tried it. Has anyone had success implementing a MIDI LFO on an analogue synth? I guess a smoothing algorithm within the synth could mitigate. I have a Virus which smooths knob movements quite nicely but I think it somehow "disconnects" you from the guts of the synth. That's a very subjective thing though.
Old 14th February 2018 | Show parent
  #1480
Gear Guru
 
Jamie munro's Avatar
 
🎧 5 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ntropic ➡️
Thing is, even if you go beyond 127 steps (e.g. using NRPNs,) I would have thought the data transmission rate of MIDI makes anything other than slow modulation rates (eg. from a MIDI LFO) unworkable. Throw in some other concurrent MIDI modulation, some notes and a bit of pitch bend and aftertouch and the data stream must get pretty clogged? I've not tried it. Has anyone had success implementing a MIDI LFO? I guess a smoothing algorithm within the synth could mitigate. I have a Virus which smooths knob movements quite nicely but I think it somehow "disconnects" you from the guts of the synth. That's a very subjective thing though.
I can't say I notice on mine that use NRPN, they will use USB (plus standard) on this anyway and that will work way quicker so long as the engine has been designed to accept greater amounts of data, which I expect it will. The dm12 etc do so why make this different, there is no stepping on the mod of that engine to my knowledge.

Midi spec over din is slow agreed but absolutely no reason for stepping, that's the synth design if it's choking and stepping over one modulation you mention and such as PW to PWM.

Edit: always here willing to learn and be proved wrong
Old 14th February 2018
  #1481
Lives for gear
 
🎧 10 years
Obviously USB data rate is orders of magnitude faster than MIDI but isn't MIDI over USB limited to the original MIDI spec of +/- 1ms per packet? Genuine question.
Old 14th February 2018
  #1482
Lives for gear
 
As ive had many of the big classics, a bog standard XA doesnt interest me. To me an xa is very good but not great compared to my personal all times favs, chroma, 4 voice, obx (all of which ive owned) and memorymoog cs80/gx1 and voytra8.

I kept things like the mks 80 and xpander around BECAUSE of the extra features not originally on those above.
ADD the ob-8 functions and im far far more interested, hide them on page 2 for all i care, remembering and acessing that stuffs not difficult for me..
Old 14th February 2018
  #1483
Lives for gear
 
Heinakroon's Avatar
 
🎧 5 years
It obviously won't be audio rate modulation, but for regular LFO tasks it should work fine.

Testing with my minilogue and DeepMind 12, they seem to respond smoothly to control changes from my DAW.

Not as convenient as an extra on-board LFO of course, but workable.
Old 14th February 2018 | Show parent
  #1484
Gear Addict
 
🎧 5 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by ZT Scheer ➡️
Many incorrectly assume that "more is better" regarding polyphony. There are parts you cannot actually play "correctly" if you have more than about 8 voices.
While this is true (many leads will only work in mono mode with the correct note priority), it would in principle be possible to limit polyphony in software. Won't work the other way around obviously.
Old 14th February 2018
  #1485
Lives for gear
 
Dear Uli, heres an idea. Make it like a computer game the better you are/or get the more secret options you unlock..Next Level stuff.......you can add a 'catch up' mode if you have to. Promote smartening up not dumbing down..
Old 14th February 2018 | Show parent
  #1486
Gear Nut
 
puta_locura's Avatar
 
that's page 2...synth plays fine in original state, but if you want to get an icing on a cake all you do is switch it on and your knobs will get new functions..Behringer people could probably just borrow an OB-8 from someone for checking page 2 out in action, they don't necessarilly have to actually bid on and buy ob-8 on ebay.
Old 14th February 2018 | Show parent
  #1487
Lives for gear
 
kurzweil's Avatar
 
🎧 5 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by Heinakroon ➡️
It obviously won't be audio rate modulation, but for regular LFO tasks it should work fine.

Testing with my minilogue and DeepMind 12, they seem to respond smoothly to control changes from my DAW.

Not as convenient as an extra on-board LFO of course, but workable.
As soon as I plug a computer into a synthesizer it starts to feel like work rather than play, but I've had some fun with Max patches that can assign independent 'midi-LFOs' to any parameter of my Bass Station II..
Old 14th February 2018
  #1488
Lives for gear
 
🎧 10 years
As regards polyphony, I've loved stacking sounds since it was first available on single synths ... it even allowed sounds on the upper end CZs that sound great to me this day (bright metallic on dark layers) ... and on the JP8, but this led to 4 note poly, which has always bugged me. It's not about having more notes than fingers (this always jars) - it's about the luxury of 6 or, for me personally, 8 note stacked layers that appeals. It's why I can't wait to get my hands on a Prologue. It's just a personal desire, and DSI seem to have this covered with no objections now. Extra cards could work and would be in line with the original voice choice in the OBXa if you think about it (4,6,8 wasn't' it - which would you honestly choose?). Anyway, it's just something that could be doable now, without effecting the 8 note or 4 note stacked sound or the original at all. The whole point of this thread is to discus what they might do in a blue sky manner because we were invited to. Yes, I'd be happy with an exact remake, but it doesn't require a thread to itself to repeat that endlessly. If that's the deal, I might give up my ongoing search for a decent OBXa anyway.
Old 15th February 2018
  #1489
Here for the gear
 
Honestly, after reading through this thread, I think the best way to make everyone happy here is to remake the original keyboard as accurately as possible. (Except for that one guy who really wants it to be white, he's really worried about it if you didn't notice) I love the fact that the project is going that way. You could add another lfo for additional modulation, and that would make me even happier! As long as the original sound is the same! And for all those who want to add trashy digital effects: do that externally with your DAW and save everyone else the money and the headaches! The only thing I don't understand is how low this is on the list of priorities. If you look at the number of people expressing interest on this forum alone, its clear that this could be a huge seller. And using the ethos of this classic is going to have a much bigger impact on the market than an original from berhinger - no offense dudes... I personally believe you guys should bump this up on the list. Teach those old-fart-naysayers a lesson and make this happen!!!
Old 15th February 2018 | Show parent
  #1490
Lives for gear
 
Heinakroon's Avatar
 
🎧 5 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ebaum42 ➡️
Honestly, after reading through this thread, I think the best way to make everyone happy here is to remake the original keyboard as accurately as possible. (Except for that one guy who really wants it to be white, he's really worried about it if you didn't notice) I love the fact that the project is going that way. You could add another lfo for additional modulation, and that would make me even happier! As long as the original sound is the same! And for all those who want to add trashy digital effects: do that externally with your DAW and save everyone else the money and the headaches! The only thing I don't understand is how low this is on the list of priorities. If you look at the number of people expressing interest on this forum alone, its clear that this could be a huge seller. And using the ethos of this classic is going to have a much bigger impact on the market than an original from berhinger - no offense dudes... I personally believe you guys should bump this up on the list. Teach those old-fart-naysayers a lesson and make this happen!!!
Haha, subtweeted on Gearslutz!

For the record, as long as those blue lines can be made subtle enough, I can get over my worry. :D
Old 15th February 2018 | Show parent
  #1491
Lives for gear
 
kurzweil's Avatar
 
🎧 5 years
If Uli manages to bring a clone of the Xa to market that sounds authentic and does as much as the original, it will be a huge success and any lack of all the feature improvements that I and others would like are not going to stop us from buying this beast. That doesn't stop me from thinking 'what if...' though!
Old 15th February 2018
  #1492
Deleted 153c85c ðŸŽ™ï¸
Guest
Allow me to provide you with a quick update.

Aside from the earlier desktop version, many of you requested for a keyboard version of the UB-Xa synth and hence we thought we'd share some designs with you. We have asked our engineers to render a 5-octave keyboard version and use this opportunity to show you some of the insights how such a product is developed.

It all starts with the industrial design as well as definition and placement of all functional controls. Once this is completed, the next step is to transfer the "dxf" file which contain the component coordinates plus the artwork for the silk screen printing to the mechanical engineers.
Their job is now to translate the artwork into a fully functional design. In general this works quite smoothly but there are instances where mechanical conflicts arise and artwork changes are required. This collaboration between industrial designers as well as mechanical and system engineers gets more complicated whenever electrical or mechanical constraints come into play.

Over many decades our engineering teams have created a massive component library of close to 100,000 components which have been designed in a photo- and dimension-realistic manner.
This means that any product that is designed based on components from the library will automatically look and feel real, which helps us not only to shorten the design and review process but also skip all photography. As a result any changes can be done almost in real-time and there is no need for traditional photography anymore which is a huge time and cost saver. All our product images on our websites are renderings.

Today I am asking for your feedback in relation to the current design. Do you prefer a keyboard over a desktop version and if yes would you vote for a 4 or 5 octave version. Please remember that the actual features have not yet been decided as we're still gathering valuable input.

Thanks for your feedback.

Uli
Attached Thumbnails
Behringer UB-Xa Synthesizer-ub-xa_p0cqm_right.jpg   Behringer UB-Xa Synthesizer-ub-xa_p0cqm_top.jpg   Behringer UB-Xa Synthesizer-ub-xa_p0cqm_top-front.jpg   Behringer UB-Xa Synthesizer-ub-xa_p0cqm_rear.jpg   Behringer UB-Xa Synthesizer-inno-mech-ph_p0cqm_iso-open1_2018-02-15.jpg  

Behringer UB-Xa Synthesizer-inno-mech-ph_p0cqm_iso-front_clear1_2018-02-15.jpg   Behringer UB-Xa Synthesizer-inno-mech-ph_p0cqm_iso-rear_clear2_2018-02-15.jpg  
Old 15th February 2018 | Show parent
  #1493
Lives for gear
 
Mr Knoch's Avatar
 
🎧 5 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by Uli Behringer ➡️
Allow me to provide you with a quick update.

Aside from the earlier desktop version, many of you requested for a keyboard version of the UB-Xa synth and hence we thought we'd share some designs with you. We have asked our engineers to render a 5-octave keyboard version and use this opportunity to show you some of the insights how such a product is developed.

Behringer UB-Xa Synthesizer-ub-xa_p0cqm_right.jpg

Today I am asking for your feedback in relation to the current design. Do you prefer a keyboard over a desktop version and if yes would you vote for a 4 or 5 octave version. Please remember that the actual features have not been decided as we're still gathering valuable input.

Thanks for your feedback.

Uli
Love it, love it, love it! This is a thing of beauty in the renderings above. Five octaves are my preference but if you put a full sized keyboard on it (no matter the octaves) I'll buy one. Uli, truly, you are the boss.
Old 15th February 2018 | Show parent
  #1494
Company Rep
 
AdmiralQuality's Avatar
 
🎧 15 years
Behringer UB-Xa Synthesizer-ub-xa_p0cqm_top.jpg

Perfect!
Old 15th February 2018 | Show parent
  #1495
Gear Nut
 
puta_locura's Avatar
 
it's important to remember that nailing the sound is number one priority, and everything ese is secondary to that...cuz getting sound right is a foundation upon which all other things will fall into place. If it means putting CA 3080 for VCA than it must be done. Actually I was rather surprised that there are at least 10 chinese factories that presently sell that chip on line and it's really very cheap.
Old 15th February 2018 | Show parent
  #1496
Lives for gear
 
Mr Knoch's Avatar
 
🎧 5 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by puta_locura ➡️
it's important to remember that nailing the sound is number one priority, and everything ese is secondary to that...cuz getting sound right is a foundation upon which all other things will fall into place. If it means putting CA 3080 for VCA than it must be done. Actually I was rather surprised that there are at least 10 chinese factories that presently sell that chip on line and it's really very cheap.
Yep, but one thing to remember about Uli; he is not satisfied until he nails the sound. So I have no doubts on that end.
Old 15th February 2018
  #1497
Gear Addict
 
🎧 10 years
I absolutely love that we are being updated on this project, and invited to offer opinions. Thanks Uli.

I think a 5-octave keyboard is right. With 8 voice polyphony, a player will want that range (at least) to be able to properly do the voicings they wish. Plus, it would be a honest tribute to the original. I really appreciate the rendering has Oberheim's traditional pitch and mod paddles. They are an integral part of the OB lineage.

I also feel if possible, a module/desktop version would be a great offering for those who have that preference. I'd hope this option could be desktop or rack-mountable.

Thumbs up overall - this is so badass.
Old 15th February 2018
  #1498
Lives for gear
 
Heinakroon's Avatar
 
🎧 5 years
This looks really nice!

@ Uli Behringer , would there still be a desktop module or is it one or the other?
Old 15th February 2018
  #1499
Registered User
 
🎧 5 years
Desktop would be my preference...
5 octave (not less) full size keys would my second choice.
Old 15th February 2018
  #1500
Registered User
 
🎧 5 years
wow hell yeah - only complaint is that is looks weird having the logo/product name cutting off the blue stripes, looks awkwardly shoved in. Instant buy who cares.
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