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Behringer UB-Xa Synthesizer
Old 12th May 2022 | Show parent
  #13081
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🎧 5 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by Snipeuout ➡️
Behringer has lost the race. Clearly they are in different categories because of price. ...

100% agree with this but I do think Behringer has a lot of egg on their face now.

Im mean its pretty poor marketing to be promising a synth, with all the teasers, speculation, lack of updates etc etc for how many years now - and yet a much smaller company, with presumably all of the same supply chain issues, just announces and imminently releases something that clearly is in the same sort category.

Ive said it before, I am pretty much a fan of Behringer but Im really sick of al the *ull*hit teasing & announcements with no products in sight.

I really hope they reconsider their marketing strategies as this makes them look like 8icks...
Old 12th May 2022 | Show parent
  #13082
vlz
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rpmedia ➡️
Good luck with that. One was on Reverb for ~£13k this week and seems that it sold! Not clear when any new ones will be made.
Of course, I meant ordering one from him for about 6k. He's taking orders for this year. However, it's all hypothetical, because I would not sink that much money on a synth. Once I considered the Moog One 8, but then thought I'd be disappointed.
Old 12th May 2022 | Show parent
  #13083
Lives for gear
Quote:
Originally Posted by vlz ➡️
Of course, I meant ordering one from him for about 6k. He's taking orders for this year. However, it's all hypothetical, because I would not sink that much money on a synth. Once I considered the Moog One 8, but then thought I'd be disappointed.
Don’t think he is taking orders, hence the Reverb scalper, but as you say, hypothetical.
Old 12th May 2022 | Show parent
  #13084
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jags's Avatar
 
🎧 5 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by DJKrishna ➡️
100% agree with this but I do think Behringer has a lot of egg on their face now.

Im mean its pretty poor marketing to be promising a synth, with all the teasers, speculation, lack of updates etc etc for how many years now - and yet a much smaller company, with presumably all of the same supply chain issues, just announces and imminently releases something that clearly is in the same sort category.

Ive said it before, I am pretty much a fan of Behringer but Im really sick of al the *ull*hit teasing & announcements with no products in sight.

I really hope they reconsider their marketing strategies as this makes them look like 8icks...
First of all, had it not been for the Pandemic and all the troubles that it brought, we would have all had our UB-Xa's six months ago.

Next, Behringer works on a different business model than Sequential. Behringer has a lot tighter profit margin because of their budget pricing. They need to sell a lot of synths to make the same profit as Sequential selling just a few.

I'm not sure of the numbers, but Behringer is probably planning to make 50,000 UB-Xa synths compared to Sequential maybe making 5,000 OB-X8 synths. Because Sequential is making so few UB-X8 synths and selling them at such a high price, they can afford to purchase the chips they need at a high price as they only need enough for 5,000 synths. The increase in the parts price is absorbed by the very high profit margin.

Since Behringer has such a small profit margin they cannot afford the inflated price of the chips especially if they need to purchase enough for 50,000 synths. If they tried to manufacture the UB-Xa with the inflated part prices that now exist, they could not maintain the profit margin they need if they kept the synth in the budget price range. They would have to increase the price of the synth significantly which is something they do not want to do.

So, in actuality the two companies do not have all of the same supply chain issues. Because of the profit margins, Behringer has totally different supply chain issues than Sequential has.

So Behringer, in my opinion, is just stuck between a "rock and a hard place" right now. No "egg on the face" and no "looking like Dicks" because all the reasons that their product is not yet available is not due to anything they "mistakenly" or "intentionally" have done. It all happened due to external circumstances beyond their control.

That's how I see it!

Old 12th May 2022 | Show parent
  #13085
Lives for gear
 
🎧 5 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by rpmedia ➡️
Don’t think he is taking orders, hence the Reverb scalper, but as you say, hypothetical.
Reverb is a funny world
A River remained for sale for a complete month in my city, for 4500€…
Old 12th May 2022 | Show parent
  #13086
Lives for gear
 
🎧 5 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by jags ➡️
First of all, had it not been for the Pandemic and all the troubles that it brought, we would have all had our UB-Xa's six months ago.....

Next, Behringer works on a different business model than Sequential. Behringer has a lot tighter profit margin because of their budget pricing. They need to sell a lot of synths to make the same profit as Sequential selling just a few.

......It all happened due to external circumstances beyond their control.

That's how I see it!

While I agree with the parts supply complication, economies of scale etc & yes It probably reasonable to cut Behringer some slack, I think youre being waayyy too generous- you just can’t claim “would have had synths now....”etc...could’ve, would’ve , should’ve,

I should mention, unlike many in this thread this synth is not any sort of holy grail for me so I don’t really care how long it takes, I’m more frustrated by lack timeframes on a bunch of other things they keep saying are nearly done...

Regardless really don’t think it I dispels my main point ; they’re the ones who engaged in the hype marketing so from that point of view they DO have massive facial yolk...

Whatever I hope they learn from it & work out to be less good at hype and better at communicating timeframe & potential customer expectations...
Old 12th May 2022 | Show parent
  #13087
vlz
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jazzcabbage ➡️
I think the OB-X8 is super cool. I was really hoping for pinstripes and a lower price. It's not a synth I'd use in every track either even though it would be awesome for the stuff I probably would use it for. Might go for an UB-Xa? Weirdly they didn't combine the OB-X architecture into it even though ppl have been talking about rumor that Tom's would be at least dual for some time?
What? I thought the OBX8 was the OBX, OBXa and OB8 all in one. Isn't that what they were saying? Do you mean it's the OBX but not the others? Sorry but I am not really following that thread but only read a few posts.
Old 12th May 2022 | Show parent
  #13088
Lives for gear
 
🎧 10 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by DJKrishna ➡️
While I agree with the parts supply complication, economies of scale etc & yes It probably reasonable to cut Behringer some slack, I think youre being waayyy too generous- you just can’t claim “would have had synths now....”etc...could’ve, would’ve , should’ve,

I should mention, unlike many in this thread this synth is not any sort of holy grail for me so I don’t really care how long it takes, I’m more frustrated by lack timeframes on a bunch of other things they keep saying are nearly done...

Regardless really don’t think it I dispels my main point ; they’re the ones who engaged in the hype marketing so from that point of view they DO have massive facial yolk...

Whatever I hope they learn from it & work out to be less good at hype and better at communicating timeframe & potential customer expectations...
To make their products at an acceptable price point they need very large supplies of chips at low prices which simply aren’t available due to well-understood unusual global events no one predicted (that are disrupting all manner of goods production everywhere) - I can’t see how that could be any simpler to understand really. Boutique luxury production is just not a comparable situation in any way.
Old 12th May 2022 | Show parent
  #13089
Lives for gear
Quote:
Originally Posted by jags ➡️
I'm not sure of the numbers, but Behringer is probably planning to make 50,000 UB-Xa synths compared to Sequential maybe making 5,000 OB-X8 synths. Because Sequential is making so few UB-X8 synths and selling them at such a high price, they can afford to purchase the chips they need at a high price as they only need enough for 5,000 synths. The increase in the parts price is absorbed by the very high profit margin.
You are overestimating the size of analog synth market.
Old 12th May 2022 | Show parent
  #13090
Lives for gear
I don't think Behringer does not have an intention to make a lot of money selling synths. They are making money from the other categories of the products, and synth business is rather Uli's midlife crisis hobby, I guess.
Old 12th May 2022 | Show parent
  #13091
Gear Guru
 
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🎧 5 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by vlz ➡️
What? I thought the OBX8 was the OBX, OBXa and OB8 all in one. Isn't that what they were saying? Do you mean it's the OBX but not the others? Sorry but I am not really following that thread but only read a few posts.
according to Marcus Ryle it is all 3 machines internals

so the 8 , X and XA filter, their own filter env, pwm etc

so you can mix and match parts from each synth

of course env are digital, lfo too

pretty crazy and damn cool to do it that way - i am sure people will be very happy as i would hope to be if i was spending that much - it is a wicked looking synth, sounded way better when i heard it played by someone who isn't a toober
Old 12th May 2022 | Show parent
  #13092
Gear Nut
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jamie munro ➡️
according to Marcus Ryle it is all 3 machines internals

so the 8 , X and XA filter, their own filter env, pwm etc

so you can mix and match parts from each synth

of course env are digital, lfo too

pretty crazy and damn cool to do it that way - i am sure people will be very happy as i would hope to be if i was spending that much - it is a wicked looking synth, sounded way better when i heard it played by someone who isn't a toober
Not only is it the internals of all three but you can mix and match different sections. Sonic State has a really good interview that goes into the details. Kinda reminds me of Diva but in hardware form and covering just one brand of instrument.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0KuKq-ECU9E
Old 12th May 2022 | Show parent
  #13093
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🎧 5 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by vlz ➡️
are you listening, @ kurzweil ?
I AM!
Old 12th May 2022 | Show parent
  #13094
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🎧 5 years
+ Marcus Ryle openly admits (in the sonicstate interview / demo video) that Sequential may not have enough parts in stock to meet the demand for the OBX8. That might explain the high price, as they might be planning to sell only a few thousand units. Behr will be planning (relying on) selling tens of thousands.
Old 12th May 2022 | Show parent
  #13095
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Coorec's Avatar
 
🎧 5 years
How can a small manufacturer who needs thousands of chips be faster than an industry giant who need millions .. how? It doesnt make any sense ...

*attention irony*



Quote:
Originally Posted by DJKrishna ➡️
100% agree with this but I do think Behringer has a lot of egg on their face now.

Im mean its pretty poor marketing to be promising a synth, with all the teasers, speculation, lack of updates etc etc for how many years now - and yet a much smaller company, with presumably all of the same supply chain issues, just announces and imminently releases something that clearly is in the same sort category.

Ive said it before, I am pretty much a fan of Behringer but Im really sick of al the *ull*hit teasing & announcements with no products in sight.

I really hope they reconsider their marketing strategies as this makes them look like 8icks...
Old 12th May 2022 | Show parent
  #13096
vlz
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kurzweil ➡️
+ Marcus Ryle openly admits (in the sonicstate interview / demo video) that Sequential may not have enough parts in stock to meet the demand for the OBX8. That might explain the high price, as they might be planning to sell only a few thousand units. Behr will be planning (relying on) selling tens of thousands.
Makes a lot of sense, because that seems to be the way Oberheim operates (we have seen this with the SEMs, TVS etc).
Old 12th May 2022 | Show parent
  #13097
Lives for gear
 
🎧 15 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by DJKrishna ➡️
While I agree with the parts supply complication, economies of scale etc & yes It probably reasonable to cut Behringer some slack, I think youre being waayyy too generous- you just can’t claim “would have had synths now....”etc...could’ve, would’ve , should’ve,
No matter how long it takes for Behringer to take their copies from blueprint to production their clones always fail somehow.

First I was impressed by their RD-8 but the interface bugs let me down. The MS-1 always sounded wrong, especially the sub oscillator, like biscuits compared to the cookies of the original. The pitches of the RD-9 sound were all over the place. How can you tune a simple 6 bit hihat sound too high? Even my self built 9090 sounds more authentic.

These guys at least have the skills to do it right.
Old 12th May 2022 | Show parent
  #13098
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🎧 5 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by vlz ➡️
What? I thought the OBX8 was the OBX, OBXa and OB8 all in one. Isn't that what they were saying? Do you mean it's the OBX but not the others? Sorry but I am not really following that thread but only read a few posts.
Only that it had been rumored that Dave/Tom might be releasing an OB-X possibly with OB-Xa options for some time. So Behringer might have had an opportunity to retool etc for that. With their [Tom and Dave] recent release of the OB-X8 the OB-8 addition came out from nowhere. Only people in-the-know knew about it before its announcement.
Old 12th May 2022 | Show parent
  #13099
vlz
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jazzcabbage ➡️
Only that it had been rumored that Dave/Tom might be releasing an OB-X possibly with OB-Xa options for some time. So Behringer might have had an opportunity to retool etc for that. With their [Tom and Dave] recent release of the OB-X8 the OB-8 addition came out from nowhere. Only people in-the-know knew about it before its announcement.
oh, I misunderstood it.
Old 12th May 2022 | Show parent
  #13100
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🎧 5 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by jags ➡️
I'm not sure of the numbers, but Behringer is probably planning to make 50,000 UB-Xa synths compared to Sequential maybe making 5,000 OB-X8 synths.
Quote:
Originally Posted by momomel ➡️
You are overestimating the size of analog synth market.
As I said "I'm not sure of the numbers". I was just guesstimating.

Does anybody have a more accurate estimate of what the production figures may actually be? How many Deepmind12s did Behringer produce? I would figure their production of the UB-Xa will end up about the same, if not more.

Old 12th May 2022 | Show parent
  #13101
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jags's Avatar
 
🎧 5 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by DJKrishna ➡️
I think youre being waayyy too generous- you just can’t claim “would have had synths now....”etc...could’ve, would’ve , should’ve,

Regardless really don’t think it I dispels my main point ; they’re the ones who engaged in the hype marketing so from that point of view they DO have massive facial yolk...

Whatever I hope they learn from it & work out to be less good at hype and better at communicating timeframe & potential customer expectations...
Behringer's policy is to let the customer know what's happening in the production process every step of the way. Just as what was done with other products of theirs, they announced the UB-Xa going into BETA testing, then about six months later in July of 2021 they announced BETA testing as complete, the synth is ready for production and they released the video demos. Their next step would have been to bring in all the parts by the end of July, finish production by the end of September, and then ship out the product so their distributors would get them by November. Just in time for Black Friday and the Christmas season. This was the plan, and had it not been for the Pandemic, I would have had my UB-Xa six months ago.

It is obvious that Behringer ran into a very big and unexpected problem with the unavailability of parts. All of a sudden in July they couldn't get the parts that they expected they would get. It was such a shock to them they actually had to go "radio silent" as we did not hear from them at all the last half of 2021. They did not know what to do or say, and I'm sure it was very frustrating for them.

I really feel bad for Uli and his company. Luckily it looks like they will be able to weather this storm and eventually come out of it OK.

Again, that's just the way I see it!!

Old 12th May 2022 | Show parent
  #13102
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🎧 5 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jamie munro ➡️
in a few of days you will hear all you need to make informed decision
Bring it!!
Old 12th May 2022 | Show parent
  #13103
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jags's Avatar
 
🎧 5 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by coffee ➡️
No matter how long it takes for Behringer to take their copies from blueprint to production their clones always fail somehow.
I love all my Behringer clones even if they may not be 100% perfect. Nothing ever is.

My Behringers sound great and work great for my needs!

Old 13th May 2022 | Show parent
  #13104
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Musicncars ➡️
Bring it!!
I hope that means that Jamie has been busy making patches for it!
Old 13th May 2022 | Show parent
  #13105
Gear Nut
 
🎧 5 years
As I see it, with the x8 released, it would make sense for Behringer to release another round of demos in more detail showing vintage modes etc. They’ve had time to fine tune, time to pony up a little more b4 some potential x8 sales cut theirs.
Old 13th May 2022 | Show parent
  #13106
Lives for gear
 
🎧 10 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by jags ➡️
As I said "I'm not sure of the numbers". I was just guesstimating.

Does anybody have a more accurate estimate of what the production figures may actually be? How many Deepmind12s did Behringer produce? I would figure their production of the UB-Xa will end up about the same, if not more.

I think Uli said there were 30,000 Boogs preordered by retailers when that was announced.
Old 13th May 2022 | Show parent
  #13107
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jags's Avatar
 
🎧 5 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by rockmanrock ➡️
I think Uli said there were 30,000 Boogs preordered by retailers when that was announced.
So maybe 100,000 Behringer Model Ds (Boogs) already produced? Maybe @ Jamie munro can shed some light on this question.

Old 13th May 2022 | Show parent
  #13108
Lives for gear
 
🎧 10 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by jags ➡️
So maybe 100,000 Behringer Model Ds (Boogs) already produced? Maybe @ Jamie munro can shed some light on this question.

Yes I bet it's a figure like that. A Minimoog clone for next to nothing is still an insane deal. I bet the polys will sell in the tens of thousands.

Behringer prices seem to be up though. My VC340 was 340 pounds, now it's well over 400, almost 500 at some places. Deepmind 12 is 675 quid.
Old 13th May 2022 | Show parent
  #13109
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jags's Avatar
 
🎧 5 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by rockmanrock ➡️
Yes I bet it's a figure like that. A Minimoog clone for next to nothing is still an insane deal. I bet the polys will sell in the tens of thousands.


That's why I'm curious to know how many Deepminds have been produced. That would probably be a better indicator of how many UB-Xa synths could be produced in the future.

Old 13th May 2022 | Show parent
  #13110
Lives for gear
Quote:
Originally Posted by rockmanrock ➡️
I think Uli said there were 30,000 Boogs preordered by retailers when that was announced.
Then jags estimate would not be far from reality.
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