100% agree with this but I do think Behringer has a lot of egg on their face now.

Im mean its pretty poor marketing to be promising a synth, with all the teasers, speculation, lack of updates etc etc for how many years now - and yet a much smaller company, with presumably all of the same supply chain issues, just announces and imminently releases something that clearly is in the same sort category.

Ive said it before, I am pretty much a fan of Behringer but Im really sick of al the *ull*hit teasing & announcements with no products in sight.

I really hope they reconsider their marketing strategies as this makes them look like 8icks...

Of course, I meant ordering one from him for about 6k. He's taking orders for this year. However, it's all hypothetical, because I would not sink that much money on a synth. Once I considered the Moog One 8, but then thought I'd be disappointed.

Don’t think he is taking orders, hence the Reverb scalper, but as you say, hypothetical.

First of all, had it not been for the Pandemic and all the troubles that it brought, we would have all had our UB-Xa's six months ago.

Next, Behringer works on a different business model than Sequential. Behringer has a lot tighter profit margin because of their budget pricing. They need to sell a lot of synths to make the same profit as Sequential selling just a few.

I'm not sure of the numbers, but Behringer is probably planning to make 50,000 UB-Xa synths compared to Sequential maybe making 5,000 OB-X8 synths. Because Sequential is making so few UB-X8 synths and selling them at such a high price, they can afford to purchase the chips they need at a high price as they only need enough for 5,000 synths. The increase in the parts price is absorbed by the very high profit margin.

Since Behringer has such a small profit margin they cannot afford the inflated price of the chips especially if they need to purchase enough for 50,000 synths. If they tried to manufacture the UB-Xa with the inflated part prices that now exist, they could not maintain the profit margin they need if they kept the synth in the budget price range. They would have to increase the price of the synth significantly which is something they do not want to do.

So, in actuality the two companies do not have all of the same supply chain issues. Because of the profit margins, Behringer has totally different supply chain issues than Sequential has.

So Behringer, in my opinion, is just stuck between a "rock and a hard place" right now. No "egg on the face" and no "looking like Dicks" because all the reasons that their product is not yet available is not due to anything they "mistakenly" or "intentionally" have done. It all happened due to external circumstances beyond their control.

That's how I see it!

Reverb is a funny world
A River remained for sale for a complete month in my city, for 4500€…

While I agree with the parts supply complication, economies of scale etc & yes It probably reasonable to cut Behringer some slack, I think youre being waayyy too generous- you just can’t claim “would have had synths now....”etc...could’ve, would’ve , should’ve,

I should mention, unlike many in this thread this synth is not any sort of holy grail for me so I don’t really care how long it takes, I’m more frustrated by lack timeframes on a bunch of other things they keep saying are nearly done...

Regardless really don’t think it I dispels my main point ; they’re the ones who engaged in the hype marketing so from that point of view they DO have massive facial yolk...

Whatever I hope they learn from it & work out to be less good at hype and better at communicating timeframe & potential customer expectations...

What? I thought the OBX8 was the OBX, OBXa and OB8 all in one. Isn't that what they were saying? Do you mean it's the OBX but not the others? Sorry but I am not really following that thread but only read a few posts.

To make their products at an acceptable price point they need very large supplies of chips at low prices which simply aren’t available due to well-understood unusual global events no one predicted (that are disrupting all manner of goods production everywhere) - I can’t see how that could be any simpler to understand really. Boutique luxury production is just not a comparable situation in any way.

You are overestimating the size of analog synth market.

I don't think Behringer does not have an intention to make a lot of money selling synths. They are making money from the other categories of the products, and synth business is rather Uli's midlife crisis hobby, I guess.

according to Marcus Ryle it is all 3 machines internals

so the 8 , X and XA filter, their own filter env, pwm etc

so you can mix and match parts from each synth

of course env are digital, lfo too

pretty crazy and damn cool to do it that way - i am sure people will be very happy as i would hope to be if i was spending that much - it is a wicked looking synth, sounded way better when i heard it played by someone who isn't a toober

Not only is it the internals of all three but you can mix and match different sections. Sonic State has a really good interview that goes into the details. Kinda reminds me of Diva but in hardware form and covering just one brand of instrument.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0KuKq-ECU9E

I AM!

+ Marcus Ryle openly admits (in the sonicstate interview / demo video) that Sequential may not have enough parts in stock to meet the demand for the OBX8. That might explain the high price, as they might be planning to sell only a few thousand units. Behr will be planning (relying on) selling tens of thousands.

How can a small manufacturer who needs thousands of chips be faster than an industry giant who need millions .. how? It doesnt make any sense ...

*attention irony*

Makes a lot of sense, because that seems to be the way Oberheim operates (we have seen this with the SEMs, TVS etc).

No matter how long it takes for Behringer to take their copies from blueprint to production their clones always fail somehow.

First I was impressed by their RD-8 but the interface bugs let me down. The MS-1 always sounded wrong, especially the sub oscillator, like biscuits compared to the cookies of the original. The pitches of the RD-9 sound were all over the place. How can you tune a simple 6 bit hihat sound too high? Even my self built 9090 sounds more authentic.

These guys at least have the skills to do it right.

Only that it had been rumored that Dave/Tom might be releasing an OB-X possibly with OB-Xa options for some time. So Behringer might have had an opportunity to retool etc for that. With their [Tom and Dave] recent release of the OB-X8 the OB-8 addition came out from nowhere. Only people in-the-know knew about it before its announcement.

oh, I misunderstood it.

As I said "I'm not sure of the numbers". I was just guesstimating.

Does anybody have a more accurate estimate of what the production figures may actually be? How many Deepmind12s did Behringer produce? I would figure their production of the UB-Xa will end up about the same, if not more.

Behringer's policy is to let the customer know what's happening in the production process every step of the way. Just as what was done with other products of theirs, they announced the UB-Xa going into BETA testing, then about six months later in July of 2021 they announced BETA testing as complete, the synth is ready for production and they released the video demos. Their next step would have been to bring in all the parts by the end of July, finish production by the end of September, and then ship out the product so their distributors would get them by November. Just in time for Black Friday and the Christmas season. This was the plan, and had it not been for the Pandemic, I would have had my UB-Xa six months ago.

It is obvious that Behringer ran into a very big and unexpected problem with the unavailability of parts. All of a sudden in July they couldn't get the parts that they expected they would get. It was such a shock to them they actually had to go "radio silent" as we did not hear from them at all the last half of 2021. They did not know what to do or say, and I'm sure it was very frustrating for them.

I really feel bad for Uli and his company. Luckily it looks like they will be able to weather this storm and eventually come out of it OK.

Again, that's just the way I see it!!

Bring it!!

I love all my Behringer clones even if they may not be 100% perfect. Nothing ever is.

My Behringers sound great and work great for my needs!

I hope that means that Jamie has been busy making patches for it!

As I see it, with the x8 released, it would make sense for Behringer to release another round of demos in more detail showing vintage modes etc. They’ve had time to fine tune, time to pony up a little more b4 some potential x8 sales cut theirs.

I think Uli said there were 30,000 Boogs preordered by retailers when that was announced.

So maybe 100,000 Behringer Model Ds (Boogs) already produced? Maybe @ Jamie munro can shed some light on this question.

Yes I bet it's a figure like that. A Minimoog clone for next to nothing is still an insane deal. I bet the polys will sell in the tens of thousands.

Behringer prices seem to be up though. My VC340 was 340 pounds, now it's well over 400, almost 500 at some places. Deepmind 12 is 675 quid.

That's why I'm curious to know how many Deepminds have been produced. That would probably be a better indicator of how many UB-Xa synths could be produced in the future.

Then jags estimate would not be far from reality.