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Behringer Model D or Roland SE-02
Old 31st July 2017 | Show parent
  #61
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projectwoofer's Avatar
 
🎧 10 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by Analog Prophet ➡️
Looks like I did
I was talking generally in relation to that comment by Teknobeam, that one should have already worked with a synth without presets in order to appreciate it. I personally love them, I already have two analog monos without memory and they are my favorites!
Old 31st July 2017
  #62
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Moonwhistle's Avatar
 
🎧 5 years
Both cheap. Was interested in the SE-02 but that sequencer among other things would annoy the hell out of me.

Behringer D is looking good, safe to say they're going to sell a lot of units.

Sticking with what I have already personally.
Old 31st July 2017 | Show parent
  #63
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rockmanrock ➡️
Your knobs always line up with the sound being made. WYSIWYG.

You can dial in the right sound for the job rather than going through tons of presets.

You don't have to worry about running out of patch memories and shunting banks back and forth.

It's not ideal on a deep synth with loads of menu stuff and modulation, but on a simple synth like this it's no problem at all.
How many SE-02s will brick at firmware updates, or get fried by incorrect adaptors, power spikes? Sensitive microprocessrs are vulnerable in a way that analog circuits are not. And the SE-02 needs an OS to load.

How many bad controllers will be fatally repaired by amateurs? How many "does your cutoff knob skip around" posts will there be?

I'm sure the SE-02 is well made. But there's less to go wrong with less digital circuits.

Pretty sure the only digital thing on the D is a MIDI to CV converter that feeds the circuits when controlled via the DIN jack. If that went south it could be repaired or driven directly via CV.
Old 31st July 2017 | Show parent
  #64
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Quote:
Originally Posted by projectwoofer ➡️
I was talking generally in relation to that comment by Teknobeam, that one should have already worked with a synth without presets in order to appreciate it. I personally love them, I already have two analog monos without memory and they are my favorites!
I now understand that as I just checked your Studio and found some great synths without presets
Old 31st July 2017
  #65
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donato's Avatar
 
🎧 10 years
Kinda wish it would've kept going...


Old 31st July 2017 | Show parent
  #66
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projectwoofer's Avatar
 
🎧 10 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by rsaintjohn ➡️
Quote:
Originally Posted by donato ➡️
Kinda wish it would've kept going...


We ve got some really wise boys around here! No good film on Netflix today? So sorry!
Old 31st July 2017
  #67
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🎧 10 years
Since the very first announcement of Uli's that he was going to put a minimoog clone to the market, I was interested in it. Then the S-02 came along unexpectedly, and that did grab my attention. I watched all the demo videos and listened to the clips, but somehow there seems to be something lacking to the sound.. a roundness, and some real depth. It could be that the media that are supposed to represent it's sound don't do it justice, but as soon as I heard some of the later versions of the Behringer D, it became obvious that that's going to be the one for me.

I'm weird.. to me it isn't about presets, who builds the device, said company's history or any of that background stuff, but to me it's all about the SOUND of the device.

I've always wanteda minimoog, but it was always out of my financial range. I do have a Little Phatty, but that doesn't quite get there.. though it does have a nice moogy sound. But this Behringer D might take me into actual minimoog territory.

So yeah..I never use presets, and hardly ever save anything on my analog monosynths as I just program whatever I need on the fly, so it looks like it'll be the Behringer for me
Old 31st July 2017
  #68
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🎧 10 years


Based on this pic* I'm more interested in the B model D than the SE-02 as I like having enough space between the dials so i don't adjust them accidentally when turning another.


* assuming, but have no idea whether they're to the same scale ...was the only compare I could find; got it from here...
https://www.hispasonic.com/noticias/...oland-02/42991
Old 1st August 2017
  #69
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sovietpop's Avatar
 
🎧 10 years
To be honest i would choose the B Model D even if i am a big fan of Studio electronic (the Boomstar 4075 is my favorite mono ever).
The SE2 looks like a cheap consumer product to me and i cant stand the Roland boutique format but that just me.
Old 1st August 2017 | Show parent
  #70
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daviddever's Avatar
 
🎧 5 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by Astro Spy ➡️
How many SE-02s will brick at firmware updates, or get fried by incorrect adaptors, power spikes? Sensitive microprocessrs are vulnerable in a way that analog circuits are not. And the SE-02 needs an OS to load.

How many bad controllers will be fatally repaired by amateurs? How many "does your cutoff knob skip around" posts will there be?

I'm sure the SE-02 is well made. But there's less to go wrong with less digital circuits.

Pretty sure the only digital thing on the D is a MIDI to CV converter that feeds the circuits when controlled via the DIN jack. If that went south it could be repaired or driven directly via CV.
If the microprocessor is fried, chances are it'll pull down the power supply rails, regardless of the manufacturer in question. Most micros run at 3.3v / 1.8v or less, from a 5 VDC input (USB or DC adaptor), implying that they'll have built-in power supply regulation (which could itself be easily repaired).
Old 1st August 2017 | Show parent
  #71
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Westlaker's Avatar
 
🎧 10 years
Not in the market for either, but if I were, I think I'd much rather give my hard-earned $$ to the St. Regis brothers and the fine folks at Roland.
Old 1st August 2017
  #72
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GeminIAm's Avatar
 
🎧 5 years
I love my presetless Odyssey and hate the Boutique minijack/micro usb connectors (it's not the end of the world, just annoying). On that basis I'd go Behringer but won't be buying either of them new anyway, I like the MM sound but not a necessity for me. I'll wait til there's lots of cheap used ones around
Old 1st August 2017 | Show parent
  #73
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Quote:
Originally Posted by robwood ➡️


Based on this pic* I'm more interested in the B model D than the SE-02 as I like having enough space between the dials so i don't adjust them accidentally when turning another.


* assuming, but have no idea whether they're to the same scale ...was the only compare I could find; got it from here...
https://www.hispasonic.com/noticias/...oland-02/42991
Roland SE-02 width is 300mm (11-13/16 inches) if the same as other Boutique series

Behringer Model D width is 482mm (19 inches) if its Eurorack

If so the picture should be somehow realistic regarding size difference. A significant difference by size and space between the knobs. The Moog Model D is in comparison 727mm (28,6 inches) width.
Old 1st August 2017
  #74
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projectwoofer's Avatar
 
🎧 10 years
If it wasn't for those tiny knobs so close to each other, I'd choose the SE-02 based on the extra features and better company reputation. But as it is, I'm not sure...
Old 1st August 2017 | Show parent
  #75
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wagoo's Avatar
 
🎧 5 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by Analog Prophet ➡️
Behringer Model D width is 482mm (19 inches) if its Eurorack
Internal width of a 19" rack is about 445mm (not counting the ears).. and that would imply full width 3U - which isn't the case as:

- Eurorack is a subset of 19" rack, so the D would mount in an 84HP Eurorack case.. which fits into 3U (I think some 85HP are available too)
- Modular Grid have the width of the D at 71HP, so it wouldn't take up the full rack width

It's about 5.08mm per HP, so that implies the width is around 360.68mm (14.2").. measuring the width of my JP-08 boutique that's about 299mm wide for comparison.

This is how it'd look in a 3U rack (if Modular Grid are accurate on the HP):

Old 1st August 2017
  #76
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It's amusing to see people complaining that the 40 or so knobs on the SE-02 are too close together given that until recently many synths had no knobs at all.

Anyway, I've already got seven Boutiques so I'm comfortable enough with the format. I'll still need to play an SE-02 before committing myself; I've bought too many things on preorder that have turned out to be disappointing - Minilogue and DrumBrute were recent offenders.

I will say the SE-02's programmability is a definite plus. The D I'll look at, but I can't say I like the company philosophy or its Robin Hood marketing - as with all Behringer products, a low price will be everything.
Old 1st August 2017 | Show parent
  #77
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projectwoofer's Avatar
 
🎧 10 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by Licudi ➡️
It's amusing to see people complaining that the 40 or so knobs on the SE-02 are too close together given that until recently many synths had no knobs at all.
So you find amusing the fact that people express their own opinion and because until recently there were not many synths with knobs people should just shut up and be happy with synths made for ants. Funny what some people find amusing.
Old 1st August 2017
  #78
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The space between the knobs is maybe not what makes the decision of what route to go, it's the sound. It of course it's not unimportant as the particular synth is about performance real time experience. The question is if they sound similar, what is then a good choice? There are some differences - of personal taste I guess.

I have two boutique devices (TR-09 and TB-03). One of them (TR-09) is maybe well small to my old vintage fingers, but it don't stop me to use the knobs, it's 'take it or leave it'.
Old 1st August 2017 | Show parent
  #79
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Quote:
Originally Posted by projectwoofer ➡️
Funny what some people find amusing.
I guess that was unintentional.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Analog Prophet ➡️
it's 'take it or leave it'.
A good philosophy.
Old 1st August 2017 | Show parent
  #80
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Yes, my philosophy is good
Old 1st August 2017 | Show parent
  #81
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projectwoofer's Avatar
 
🎧 10 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by Licudi ➡️
I guess that was unintentional.
Except that when you proudly state it here also implies criticism. But it's not my intention to argue further...
Old 1st August 2017 | Show parent
  #82
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Quote:
Originally Posted by projectwoofer ➡️
Except that when you proudly state it here also implies criticism. But it's not my intention to argue further...
An aside, not pride. If I meant anything at all it was that age adds perspective; I found the knobs on the DX-7 really hard to use. Mainly because it didn't have any.
Old 1st August 2017 | Show parent
  #83
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projectwoofer's Avatar
 
🎧 10 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by Licudi ➡️
An aside, not pride. If I meant anything at all it was that age adds perspective; I found the knobs on the DX-7 really hard to use. Mainly because it didn't have any.
Thanks for clarifying it. I know we live in good times where the choice of analog knobby synths is huge and I wouldn't want to sound ungrateful or something but I honestly believe that the extra tiny form factor of the boutiques is really a missed opportunity for Roland. I really like the sound and, like I said, the extra features of the SE-02 and the fact that's a cooperation with SE makes me want it even more but I would personally really want it to be a bit bigger.

On the other hand, the Behringer new demos sound very good to my ears but it lacks, like the original, features like PWM and sync (and I'd like it to have those additions in 2017, to tell you the truth) and the fact that's a Behringer makes me more skeptical.
Old 1st August 2017 | Show parent
  #84
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Licudi ➡️
An aside, not pride. If I meant anything at all it was that age adds perspective; I found the knobs on the DX-7 really hard to use. Mainly because it didn't have any.
And with the DX7 (that I still like) all knobs were gone for decades. I'm happy of the return of the knobs in these days so that synths once again will be performance instruments instead of patch banks recalling overused presets from. Let music be an art again, not just sonic engineering. I think the SE-02 and B Model D is a step in that direction.
Old 1st August 2017 | Show parent
  #85
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Quote:
Originally Posted by projectwoofer ➡️
I honestly believe that the extra tiny form factor of the boutiques is really a missed opportunity for Roland. I really like the sound and, like I said, the extra features of the SE-02 and the fact that's a cooperation with SE makes me want it even more but I would personally really want it to be a bit bigger.
Don't disagree with you, but Roland has committed itself to the Boutique footprint. For the moment, it's a question of whether or not you can live with that.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Analog Prophet ➡️
And with the DX7 (that I still like) all knobs were gone for decades. I'm happy of the return of the knobs in these days so that synths once again will be performance instruments instead of patch banks recalling overused presets from. Let music be an art again, not just sonic engineering. I think the SE-02 and B Model D is a step in that direction.
Couldn't agree more. I hated those times.

Coming back to controls, Roland gets most of the flak but the problem is more widespread. For instance, the faders on my Dreadbox Nyx are similarly sized to those on the JU-06, but are far harder to adjust. And unlike the Boutiques, there's no MIDI cc and editors to get you out of that one. Nyx sounds good though, so another case of take it or leave it.
Old 1st August 2017 | Show parent
  #86
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projectwoofer's Avatar
 
🎧 10 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by Licudi ➡️
Don't disagree with you, but Roland has committed itself to the Boutique footprint. For the moment, it's a question of whether or not you can live with that.
I know, I must try it in person to form an opinion.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Licudi ➡️
Coming back to controls, Roland gets most of the flak but the problem is more widespread. For instance, the faders on my Dreadbox Nyx are similarly sized to those on the JU-06, but are far harder to adjust. And unlike the Boutiques, there's no MIDI cc and editors to get you out of that one. Nyx sounds good though, so another case of take it or leave it.
I played the NYX at a store and I agree. But I also found it a bit too, let's say specialized for my taste. I'm waiting for Medusa, on paper it sounds like it could be the one Dreadbox for me...
Old 1st August 2017
  #87
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🎧 10 years
Another vote for the SE-02 here. The features and sound are superb, the sequencer with parameter locks is well thought through, modern and fun. Just seems like a fantastic instrument at a great price point. The small footprint actually appeals to me as I am getting tight on space. The Behringer? it has THAT sound, what can I say. Nevertheless... I really don't like what they did there and I'm so tired of clones.
Old 1st August 2017 | Show parent
  #88
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Quote:
Originally Posted by flextone ➡️
I'm so tired of clones.
I have the original from Moog AND I'm excited about 'the attack of the clones' as it expand my possibilities, especially when be able to multi chan some new devices to a polyphonic Moogish monster to an affordable price tag (and buy a module now and then when the economy permit to expand one more voice).
Old 1st August 2017 | Show parent
  #89
Deleted d6ffc70
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Licudi ➡️
It's amusing to see people complaining that the 40 or so knobs on the SE-02 are too close together given that until recently many synths had no knobs at all.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Licudi ➡️
An aside, not pride. If I meant anything at all it was that age adds perspective; I found the knobs on the DX-7 really hard to use. Mainly because it didn't have any.
It's amusing to see people complaining about how a digital synth like the DX7 that had no need for analog control pots instead used a data slider to input digital values into a computer.

It's also amusing when knobs like those on the SE-02 are praised by said people, when they are used to enter digital values into a computer controlling an analog device which creates audible stepping issues on things like the filter controls as clearly seen and heard on the demo videos for the SE-02

I own several Yamaha FM Synths with sliders as controls to edit them, sliders are great for that, far better than knobs would be because a slider gives you instant visual feedback as to the relative value

It's the same reason sliders (AKA Faders) are used on analog mixers, and even analog synths like the Jupiter 8

In the DX7 Yamaha's engineers designed the user interface as good as was technically possible for the early 1980s, for players this included one of the best keyboards ever created with velocity and after touch and made those very much a part of sound design

It's mind blowing amusing to me that Roland and Studio Electronics designed a synth with lots of knobs for hands on controls but then made them tiny and crammed together to make the use of them either impossible during live performance or frustratingly difficult to the point where a reviewer on a pre-release demo almost flips the unit over and has to stop playing it to turn a knob on a monosynth with both hands
Old 1st August 2017 | Show parent
  #90
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Deleted d6ffc70 ➡️
I own several Yamaha FM Synths with sliders as controls to edit them, sliders are great for that, far better than knobs would be because a slider gives you instant visual feedback as to the relative value

It's the same reason sliders (AKA Faders) are used on analog mixers
A bit disingenuous. Mixers have faders per channel not one that's assignable.

Defending the DX-7's control interface is a pointless exercise, but by all means try.
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