I'm glad I'm not the only one who knows 'that sound' from the SY/TG77 and Matrix 1000. I really also sort of think the envelopes play a big role in this. I know you can adjust the envelope shapes in the mod matrix on the P12 by using the envelope to modify the attack or decay to make them logarithmic instead of linear... but I never really got it feeling right. It's a shame too - on the Poly Evolver there's a setting for the envelope shapes. I'd have loved that on the P12.

I have made a lot of patches I love, and they do sit in a mix nicely. I'm fairly critical of it, but partly because I have so many things to compare it to.

Slightly distressed/weird sounds is for sure the type of sound the P12 does in spades. I think distressed is an absolute perfected way to describe almost all of the sounds out of it.

I almost always have some positive value recursive envelope applied to the decay stage of the filter and sometimes the amp env too for any more percussive/fast sounds. I’ve not found so much benefit for slower sounds. Before I discovered the recursive envelopes, I used Env 3 and 4 to add a bit of very fast decaying cutoff and resonance to the front of the sound in addition to the main filter envelope. I sometimes still do this for adding some noise, drive and/or resonance, fm/am, filter fm etc.

The envelope shape is such subtle but important part of a sound. Thinking about it, quite a few of my polys have some options around this. As well as the P12, my PolyBrute, Radias and even my OB6 allow me adjust the curve of the attack/decay stages. And, of course, the TG77 kind of allows you to create your own envelope shape in a much more discrete way than an ADSR envelope allows.

Regarding the high end harmonics, just a little bit of decimation and air from the character section seems to open things up. Perhaps a bit counter intuitively, the main distortion effect can really add some life and sparkle into bell like sounds. Also, I use the 12dB mode a lot. The resonance is all but useless, but it ends up working much better for a lot of sounds.

Another trick for more girth is the high pass filter - try setting filter tracking to 64 and resonance around 100 to add some weight - I use this on almost everything where I’m not using the HPF for more dynamic shaping or scooping out a load of low end for a brighter/fizzier sound.

I’d love a ‘high resolution’ successor to the P12 with more powerful and flexible digital oscillators running at a higher sample rate, nicer filters, a nicer drive implementation, a much higher resolution mod matrix for passing audio rate signals around, and some shaping of the control signals for the delays to allow more accurate/less glitchy pitch shifting/Karplus String type stuff etc., a less band limited implementation of the tuned feedback etc etc. of course, it’s unlikely as the development effort will probably be wasted on a market that just wants another clone of a basic vintage poly synth.

I think a p12 successor is on the horizon, however, I hope for a Tempest successor first. I already have a P12 and love it, would love to have a groove machine the addresses what the tempest lacks.

I've done a lot of these things over the course of a year... even if I don't mention them here. At the end of the day, I think I just don't get on with it for a number of reasons. I probably would have sold it a long time ago, but I stupidly bought it last year when prices seemed to be going up and up to $2500 for a used P12... and now they have plummeted down to around $1800. I have mine listed for like $2200 locally and someone else listed theirs for $1600 and immediately sold it. I figured that is probably the end of it. I'll just keep it and keep trying to work out what things I do like from it.

One thing I haven't done is add distortion for a bell sound as you suggested. Although interestingly, I did add a bit of distortion on my System 8 in the JX3P plug out and found that it added a lot of high end sparkle that I felt was missing (I made a video comparing the JX3P and System 8 JX3P plugout and the JX3P was superior in most ways, so I'm excited thinking I may have figured out how to improve it, as I'd like to pare down the synths in my studio).

Going back to the Prophet 12, the problem with the Character parameters, including Air, is that it can end up shaping the rest of the harmonics in really strange ways, that end up affecting the sound in ways I don't particularly like. This makes me suspect that there's just something about the sound that my ears do not like and there's really nothing to be done to improve that, unless I do a lot of external processing.

As far as a successor... I agree with you. I personally don't actually mind the filter in the P12, while the same filter in the REV2 sounded like junk to me. I don't know why. Agreed about the delays and glitchy pitch shifting.

Doesn't it do Karplus Strong stuff with Feedback? I thought that was the whole point of the section. That's what Patch 86 (Violin) on my set of patches utilized to get strings.

Also - you are absolutely right on the development. I'm actually super bummed about the REV4 OS release yesterday... I keep hoping for an octave transpose feature which would allow me to use it as my main controller, but obviously Sequential does not care about that since I've only been asking about it (to their support team) since November 2020.

As many have said, the Prophet 12 is a fairly dark-sounding synth. I love it as it is, but also wanted the flexibility of being able to get slightly brighter sounds out of it, so I paired it with a Behringer SX3040 V2 Sonic Exciter (a balanced, +4 dB device) and… Wow!
You can get these for a little over a hundred bucks and it adds a really nice sizzle to the Prophet 12 (and anything else, for that matter).

Interesting - I'm not sure I'd buy that, but it does seem like a nice idea.

It's funny that people say it sounds 'dark'. I don't think it sounds dark, because the mids are so loud comparatively... The 15kHz frequencies aren't really that dark per se, although I don't know of any other synthesizers that really do this, so it's hard for me to say what I think of as 'dark'.

I'd have to think more about that.

Using the oscillators and character section with slight amounts of feedback create entirely new sonic pallets than just the ocillator and character sections alone. That's why I mentioned that frequency graphs of the isolated oscillators is pointless. Try using a bit of air or girth with drive then boost the feedback to taste. Adding a bit of key tracking to the feedback tuning is cool as well. I love using the 2-pole in this context for more mellow sounds; you can get more resonance without self oscillation to focus the sound.
That being said, the feedback (as well as all 4 per voice delay taps) can work as simple karplus-Strong oscillators, but can also be used in other contexts for shaping.

But it does help me visualize what I'm hearing. And these graphs also help me demonstrate what I'm saying to others, otherwise it's hard to come to a discussion with subjective words like 'dark' or 'muted', but if I send a graph that shows what I'm hearing, it conveys it a lot better. I think even you yourself showed me what things you could achieve with boosting levels at various frequencies using the graphs.

I think the problem for me is that all of these methods for increasing the high frequencies end up making isolated single note oscillators sound 'good' but mixed as chords, the sound becomes unusable. Maybe that's your point?

Obviously, at the end of the day - I think I just don't prefer the sound of the Prophet 12. I've spent months trying to do all sorts of things, like everything recommended here, and it never sounds better to me. Whereas I instantly play a Poly Evolver or Prophet 5/10... or even my Virus TI and think "yeah, this sounds good." Like my old AX80 that I sold - I just never got on with it.

That said - I do enjoy all the tips. They're nice and fun for exploratory purposes.

It's not the graph I have an issue with, it's the ocillator in isolation. As an audio engineer, I find visual representation of audio very useful, but it depends what I'm listening to.

There are a lot of people that don't get on with the P12, totally understandable; it's kind of a freak. I feel very liberated when I use it, after putting in my hours I just feel I can design whatever I hear in my head on it. I am however mostly using it for music and SFX, so perhaps that is the difference; it is seldom an isolated instructions.
Here is a composition from 4 years ago I created using one stereo recording of a single layer patch on the p12:

https://youtu.be/MQkQ2d3lPSE

Awesome! That's what this synth is about. I would like to hear a P5 recreation of the tune, as it supposedly is so much a better synth.

Awe yeah, get your freak on!

I can get as much creamy leads and booty bass as I need with the P12 (drive, HPF and touch of distortion are your friends here), but what has me lost in other dimensions where hours seem to pass in mere minutes is the universe of freaky cool stuff the P12 can do. Few things can capture my attention for hours on hours of entertainment like the P12.

I’ve received my Prophet 12 today and found an immediate issue with the outputs… they’re not outputting basically!

I’ve set it to mono in the Global menu… headphone jack outputs fine. A left, nothing. A right, really low signal.
B left, nothing. B right outputs voices 7-12 and mutes on 1-6.
This is on an Init patch.

Does this sound familiar to anyone??

Doesn't sound good for the unit

Yes, I know... this is what I was afraid of... I already had a degree of buyers guilt/remorse from buying this P-12 as I already have a P-6 and Rev2... maybe this is a sign from the synth gods to return it for a refund.

Try a firmware flash, double check your monitor signal path, and ensure you are in fact initialized first!

Sequential has very reasonable repair prices.

I guess with the recent release of the Trigon 6 there wont be a successor any time soon

What's a firmware flash? Just an update you mean? It had v1.0.0 when it arrived and I've updated it to the most recent fw.

The signal path is me taking the leads out of my Rev2 that's working fine and using them on the P12, so pretty sure it's not that.

The annoying thing is, from just using the headphone out of the P12, I can tell I like it a lot and might prefer it to the Rev2.
I REALLY like how the 'Show' control latches on the P12 and its screen, compared to the Rev2.

I can return this one for a refund and get another one... even if Sequential are reasonable, it's always going to cost me more unless the seller covers it, yada yada. Easier to return it.

Yes, try reinstalling the firmware. Because the output is only sending certain voices, it would lead me to a potential routing issue (firmware) as opposed to a actual hardware failure.
Please ensure everything is factory reset. Also, it is worth running a calibration.
Good luck!

Every Sequential synth I've owned (four) needed something repaired (usually out the box). Really, no other manufacturer I've bought from has had issues like that. That being said, I am probably more confident in them than any other because their repairs are so cheap and their customer service is so good. If anything, It's a selling point/thought for me to get off of some of my more obscure things and move more towards Sequential.

I returned the Prophet 12 yesterday, and bought another one off Reverb today.

Even with the faulty one, using its headphone output, there was enough there that I liked about to make me want to replace it immediately.

I feel like there’s going to be a shootout between my Rev2 and the P-12, and I’ll only keep one of them as a partner to my Prophet 6.

Too bad you got a lemon there
I'd say those three synths are different enough to justify keeping them all: A VCO, DCO, and a digital hybrid.
Fingers crossed you nab a good one this time!

Same here, my 2008 prophet 8 has had two thirds of its components replaced, and my 2018 desktop p12 was faulty right out of the box. My desktop evolver was flawless though.

Still a big fan - though with dave’s passing and focusrite acquiring of the company, it remains to be seen if it’ll feel like the same place.

Well he’s left them with an amazing product line that seems to be largely timeless now, it’d be hard to mess that up.

I’ve had a much better track record with them, but I did get a bum Prophet 12 on my first try, and my first REV2 had a faulty display.

It’s a hassle, but ultimately they’re the one synth manufacturer that seems to “get me” the most. Their stuff not only sounds great to me, but it always seems to have a full complement of features that other companies ignore.

I’ve pointed this out before, but the Prophet 12 seems to generate a fixed number of partials per voice. This isn’t evident when playing in the middle of the keyboard, on up (because partials become out of range anyway) but down low, it seems as if the oscillators are very band limited. So, you just don’t get a lot of harmonic content from a low note, which is different than the other synths you mention. I think it was a poor move to not include the analog DCOs (Ala Evolver) on it, which would make up for such things.

That said, I never approach the Prophet 12 as a synth where I’m expecting a big lush sweet spot. It’s there, for sure, but I feel like it’s the bad-boy teenager trying to make a good impression for his first meeting the girlfriend’s parents. The 12 is most comfortable when breaking the law and causing general chaos.

I was working on a Star Trek style transporter sound effect for a game, and I like to work in software because I can get timing very precise. I started working in VCV Rack Pro. It was great for the ethereal initial sound, and the control panel whirs, but it fell flat for the part of the sound where it seems like you’re dealing with taming incredible amounts of “pure energy.” I wanted something even more evocative of that than they got in the original series, and all my software and even my analogs weren’t cutting it. A minute using the 12’s tuned feedback and I instantly had a sound that seemed like a high energy system was about to come apart at the seams. I probably could have made the entire sound using it, but I’d already done the first bits, but my point is, the 12 is just a powerhouse of synthesis and it tends to be happiest making sounds that aren’t typically “beautiful.” Almost all my patches on it would be more at home in a NIN or BoC song, and none in a Vangelis tune.

Hi guys, today my beloved P12 desktop module fell down from the desk and one encoder break. I turned it on and luckily all the rest is working fine.
Do you know if I can replace the encoder on my own and if so how can I get a new encoder? Alternatively, could someone recommend me a tech support in centre Italy? 

Contact DSI support, they are really good. They will probably send you what you need for nothing. As long as you can solder/De-solder.

If not they offer a fixed $25 fixing fee, they pay for return postage you pay for sending it to them.