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Behringer VP 330 Vocoder clone
Old 21st September 2021 | Show parent
  #2641
Deleted ff365b1
Guest
Is it normal for the vocoder to be a good bit quieter than the strings or choir? Even with the vocoder maxed on the mixer, the strings and choir are much louder even at half way.

Also, for the vocoder to distort fairly easily? It seems like it has really low headroom, I have either turn the input level way down and get a thinner sound or have really strong control of my singing volume.. Turning off the ensemble helps but not entirely.

I have to turn the vc340 volume to 100% and have the loud switch on, and crank the volume on my mixer fully to make the vocoder usable with all my other synths and drum machines.

i have an early unit, i preordered before it was even listed. I've kinda made due for the last couple years but I'm starting to realize maybe this isn't by design? Or is it?
Old 21st September 2021 | Show parent
  #2642
Lives for gear
 
Rob Ocelot's Avatar
 
🎧 10 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by AlGoreRhythm ➡️
Is it normal for the vocoder to be a good bit quieter than the strings or choir? Even with the vocoder maxed on the mixer, the strings and choir are much louder even at half way.

Also, for the vocoder to distort fairly easily? It seems like it has really low headroom, I have either turn the input level way down and get a thinner sound or have really strong control of my singing volume.. Turning off the ensemble helps but not entirely.

I have to turn the vc340 volume to 100% and have the loud switch on, and crank the volume on my mixer fully to make the vocoder usable with all my other synths and drum machines.

i have an early unit, i preordered before it was even listed. I've kinda made due for the last couple years but I'm starting to realize maybe this isn't by design? Or is it?
I found the kind of mic used had an impact on the vocoder gain levels. I don't think this was as much of a problem back in the late '70s with the Roland original as the gamut of mics are more limited. Today though, there's mics of all types and impedances (and sizes).

It still puzzles me why Behringer just didn't throw in a cheapo 'gimme' mic to get people started.
Old 21st September 2021 | Show parent
  #2643
vlz
Lives for gear
 
vlz's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rob Ocelot ➡️
I found the kind of mic used had an impact on the vocoder gain levels. I don't think this was as much of a problem back in the late '70s with the Roland original as the gamut of mics are more limited. Today though, there's mics of all types and impedances (and sizes).

It still puzzles me why Behringer just didn't throw in a cheapo 'gimme' mic to get people started.
I guess a cheapo mic won't cut it. I'm using a condenser (AKG C1000), which is not expensive but not cheap either. I get a good signal out of the vocoder with it, no problem.

Someone here(?) mentioned using a compressor, but I did not think I need you in my use.
Old 21st September 2021 | Show parent
  #2644
Gear Maniac
 
🎧 5 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by AlGoreRhythm ➡️
Is it normal for the vocoder to be a good bit quieter than the strings or choir? Even with the vocoder maxed on the mixer, the strings and choir are much louder even at half way.

Also, for the vocoder to distort fairly easily? It seems like it has really low headroom, I have either turn the input level way down and get a thinner sound or have really strong control of my singing volume.. Turning off the ensemble helps but not entirely.

I have to turn the vc340 volume to 100% and have the loud switch on, and crank the volume on my mixer fully to make the vocoder usable with all my other synths and drum machines.

i have an early unit, i preordered before it was even listed. I've kinda made due for the last couple years but I'm starting to realize maybe this isn't by design? Or is it?
Without using a mixer I can record a clean and clear vocoder at around -20dbfs, I think is a good start for studio work. On the other hand if I use the mixer or a vca module on my modular I could record the vocoder at a much higher level, I could also make it louder by switching the input level on my converter, but i am ok with -20dbfs and later boost itb.
Old 22nd September 2021
  #2645
Lives for gear
 
Back when I bought my original VP-330, the guy who owned the studio (and who had 4 or 5 of those units) told me the best mic for it was by far a cheap talk-back mic
Old 22nd September 2021 | Show parent
  #2646
vlz
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vlz's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by Vinw ➡️
Back when I bought my original VP-330, the guy who owned the studio (and who had 4 or 5 of those units) told me the best mic for it was by far a cheap talk-back mic
Well I ought to try that. I didn't think it would fare well with a dynamic mic, but what do I know.
Old 22nd September 2021 | Show parent
  #2647
Lives for gear
 
The Elf's Avatar
 
🎧 10 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by vlz ➡️
Well I ought to try that. I didn't think it would fare well with a dynamic mic, but what do I know.
Cheaper dynamics have always given me subjectively better results with vocoders. My favourite currently is a Shure WH20 headset mic that solves the problem of keeping a consistent angle and distance to the mic too.
Old 22nd September 2021 | Show parent
  #2648
Lives for gear
 
🎧 10 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by vlz ➡️
Well I ought to try that. I didn't think it would fare well with a dynamic mic, but what do I know.
I get great results with an SM58.
(copy and paste into any mic thread)
Old 22nd September 2021 | Show parent
  #2649
Gear Maniac
 
🎧 5 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by MarvinDog ➡️
I get great results with an SM58.
(copy and paste into any mic thread)
Me too, SM58 sounds good, but I actually record the voice in the daw first and compress/eq until the vocoder sounds as i want it to sound.
Dynamic and eq of the voice can make a big difference in the overall vocoder sound.
Old 22nd September 2021 | Show parent
  #2650
Deleted ff365b1
Guest
Thanks for all the advice. ive tried an md421 and shure sm57 with and without windscreen and neither has given me good results. either clips way too easily or not enough treble
Old 23rd September 2021 | Show parent
  #2651
Gear Nut
 
🎧 5 years
Why not just make it behringer all the way through? Look up the behringer ta 312s gooseneck mic.. seems the obvious choice no?
Old 23rd September 2021 | Show parent
  #2652
Lives for gear
 
🎧 5 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by cowfood ➡️
Why not just make it behringer all the way through? Look up the behringer ta 312s gooseneck mic.. seems the obvious choice no?
I find the problem with gooseneck mics on vocoders is they’re never long enough and they pick up vibration from playing the keys or even touching the case.
Old 24th September 2021
  #2653
vlz
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vlz's Avatar
FWIW, I picked up an SM58 in the studio to try with the vocoder. While it worked, I got better subjectively results with the C1000. In any case the signal out of the vocoder was comparable in level with the strings and voice with either mic.
Old 3rd October 2021 | Show parent
  #2654
Gear Addict
 
Rtroost's Avatar
 
🎧 5 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by vlz ➡️
FWIW, I picked up an SM58 in the studio to try with the vocoder. While it worked, I got better subjectively results with the C1000. In any case the signal out of the vocoder was comparable in level with the strings and voice with either mic.
I use a 57 with the windscreen on mine. The tight pickup pattern is helpful in rejecting extraneous stage noises
Old 2nd December 2021
  #2655
Lives for gear
 
🎧 10 years
Just got one from Bax. It's certainly a dense, well-built little box of tricks. If I was allowed one moan, I would say the jacks on the back seem slightly wobbly (like the MS-1 ones). I've tried an SM57 and a Behringer XM8500 mic so far, and the latter works very well with it as I think it has a slightly hotter output. The headphone output on it seems quite bad though, mono and a very different tone to the main outs to my ears. It's a lot of fun overall, I'm glad I got it.
Old 2nd December 2021
  #2656
Lives for gear
 
wagoo's Avatar
 
🎧 5 years
Never used the headphone socket on mine.. not noticed jack wobble on main outs, though. For mics I use a beta 58a

I'm looking out for a second as I bet it sounds lovely layered..
Old 2nd December 2021 | Show parent
  #2657
Lives for gear
 
🎧 10 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by wagoo ➡️
Never used the headphone socket on mine.. not noticed jack wobble on main outs, though. For mics I use a beta 58a

I'm looking out for a second as I bet it sounds lovely layered..
I played it for ages on just the headphone out and it almost made me consider sending it back. Lo-fi tone and the mono collapsed signal made the chorus sound too warbly. I finally got it hooked up to a proper headphone amp and it was so much better. This has caught me out on other gear, like the K-Station and Volcas, they don't get on with my headphones.

Two VC340s?! I would suggest waiting for the Solina. Going to be hard to resist that.
Old 2nd December 2021 | Show parent
  #2658
Lives for gear
 
wagoo's Avatar
 
🎧 5 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by rockmanrock ➡️
I played it for ages on just the headphone out and it almost made me consider sending it back. Lo-fi tone and the mono collapsed signal made the chorus sound too warbly. I finally got it hooked up to a proper headphone amp and it was so much better. This has caught me out on other gear, like the K-Station and Volcas, they don't get on with my headphones.

Two VC340s?! I would suggest waiting for the Solina. Going to be hard to resist that.
Ah the Solina.. yes that will be fun when it finally arrives

I always use the main L/R outs from synths.. if I'm just doing something quick I go into a Tascam DR-40 (2x 6.3mm ins) then headphones from that on a 3.5mm jack. That let's me easily patch some pedals/FX in between first too.. and gives recording ability of course..
Old 2nd December 2021 | Show parent
  #2659
Lives for gear
 
🎧 10 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by wagoo ➡️
Ah the Solina.. yes that will be fun when it finally arrives

I always use the main L/R outs from synths.. if I'm just doing something quick I go into a Tascam DR-40 (2x 6.3mm ins) then headphones from that on a 3.5mm jack. That let's me easily patch some pedals/FX in between first too.. and gives recording ability of course..
This comes from me not having my wiring done properly. I don't know why the manufacturers bother putting these headphone jacks on stuff when they don't work very well. It's so tempting to just use them but I'm sure it has clouded my perception of some gear.

Looks like the Roland VP330 has a stereo headphone out. Another Behringer "special", like the mono effects on the Odyssey. Oh well, can't really moan at the price.
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