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Roland Cloud
Old 1 week ago | Show parent
  #4471
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realtrance's Avatar
 
🎧 10 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by ionian ➡️
I just spent 3 days with Roland cloud support over a stupid issue that wouldn't have been if the RCM had just been more clearer.

I bought some soundpacks to put on my Fantom. Every time I tried to download my soundpacks, it'd fail and I'd get a popup that said, "Trouble activating instrument. (E024) Try again later."

Three days going back and forth with Roland Cloud support with no real solutions working. Eventually I figured out it wasn't working because I don't have zenology installed on my computer. I have no interest in the zenology plug and didn't care to install it on my computer and don't even have a cloud subscription - I just wanted the SDZ files to install on my fantom. Nevertheless once I installed Zenology on my PC, then I was able to download the SDZ files to a USB stick and put them on my Fantom.

Makes no sense why I needed to install Zenology just to download some fantom files, but whatever. Adding to the confusion is I had previously downloaded the model expansions for the fantom from RCM without having Zenology installed and absolutely no issues at all - so the RCM isn't even consistent with what you need to have zenology installed for to download fantom files.

All RCM had to tell me instead of saying "Error 024 - try again later" was, "You don't have Zenology installed. You need to have zenology installed to download soundpacks."

This is the kind of thing that causes a lot of frustration and wasted time - both for me and for roland support.
The current system mystifies quite a few things, unfortunately. It feels like a sneaky way to fool you into paying for stuff you don’t want. I put that in VirtualSonics, who keep positioning their crap right next to the actual Roland stuff in the library in the hope you’ll click on it. Web marketing foolery at its finest!

The .SDZ packs are unfortunately patch sets, some of which operate under separate VSTs, some of which are patch additions to Zenology.

Zenology Pro is meant to be the software tool that lets you go deepest — outside the Fantom and Jupiter X — in doing patch design. You then go through a very convoluted system to export those patches to a user bank, which you can then import into all the Zenology-based instruments.

The RCM marketing team in Seattle could clear this up, as I just did, if they actually knew what they were doing; but I suspect they don’t.

So we’re left with this hare-brained monstrosity of formats and layers more inscrutable than ancient Nahuatl Prayer Sticks. Which just ends up feeling like a shell game.
Old 1 week ago | Show parent
  #4472
Gear Maniac
 
I don’t understand why Roland management in Japan allows the incompetency of VirtualSonics.
Old 1 week ago
  #4473
Lives for gear
 
jiffybox's Avatar
After nearly 4500 posts, the fact that every one still knows nothing kinda says it all.
Old 1 week ago | Show parent
  #4474
p-t
Gear Addict
 
🎧 15 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by Chri ➡️
I don’t understand why Roland management in Japan allows the incompetency of VirtualSonics.
I'm not sure why people blame VirtualSonics when it's probably some hair-brained 2005-type thinking at Roland HQ that dictates these oppressive copy protection mechanisms. Folks like to compare it to Arturia, let's go back to the early days of Arturia with syncrosoft protection, single machine licenses, etc and how well they are doing now compared to then, now that they've stopped punishing their users for buying their product. Roland will never hit its Cloud userbase goals as long as they treat their customers like criminals. Roland has a long and proven track record of excellent ideas and products that are cut short due to hair-brained management decisions.
If you're not getting the results you want from the VS team, then go up the chain.
Old 1 week ago | Show parent
  #4475
Lives for gear
 
Septic's Avatar
 
🎧 10 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by Chri ➡️
I don’t understand why Roland management in Japan allows the incompetency of VirtualSonics.
Well they have dug themselves in a shallow grave with the lifetime keys. If they choose the arturia or korg way, then they must manually change all those lifetime keys to full licences. And that is quite the work. I have 8 lifetime keys, from which only 2 show up in the Rolandcloud accountpage. Because I had a 2 year sub. And those keys had to be added manually, after looking into my paymentdetails personally, no automated system available etc. That is alot of work for all those early adopters and their keys.

Or Roland is just stubborn. Just as stubborn to NOT release a full editor AU/Standalone/VST for the TR8s for instance.

In some ways they havent entered the 21st century yet.

They tried with the integra7 ipad app that was abandoned very fast etc.
Old 6 days ago | Show parent
  #4476
Lives for gear
 
Stormchild's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by jbuonacc ➡️
If that works then Komplete Kontrol should work as a wrapper as well, with less overhead.
You'd think so, but Komplete Kontrol doesn't support AU. It only loads VST2s. My guess is Komplete Kontrol was created as a fork of Maschine, and AU support was added to Maschine after that point.
Old 6 days ago | Show parent
  #4477
Lives for gear
 
Stormchild's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by p-t ➡️
I'm not sure why people blame VirtualSonics when it's probably some hair-brained 2005-type thinking at Roland HQ that dictates these oppressive copy protection mechanisms.
That sounds pretty likely to me, but even if Roland did make a dumb decision about how they wanted to handle authorization, it was also implemented incompentently.

Quote:
Originally Posted by p-t ➡️
Folks like to compare it to Arturia, let's go back to the early days of Arturia with syncrosoft protection, single machine licenses, etc and how well they are doing now compared to then, now that they've stopped punishing their users for buying their product.
That's true…it took Arturia a few tries to get it right.

Quote:
Originally Posted by p-t ➡️
Roland will never hit its Cloud userbase goals as long as they treat their customers like criminals. Roland has a long and proven track record of excellent ideas and products that are cut short due to hair-brained management decisions.
Yep, and yep.
Old 6 days ago | Show parent
  #4478
Lives for gear
 
grasspike's Avatar
 
🎧 5 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by p-t ➡️
I'm not sure why people blame VirtualSonics when it's probably some hair-brained 2005-type thinking at Roland HQ that dictates these oppressive copy protection mechanisms.
Someone at Roland in Japan made the decision to try and slap together editor/librarians for hardware synths, a monthly subscription service, an annual subscription service, and a non subscription outright purchase option.

That entire scheme even if executed perfectly in and of itself is a mess

They should make everything separate

Buy a hardware synth, get an editor and librarian for that synth. Make it a free download with no copy protection of any kind as it's not needed. If you sell that synth the next user can just download it

Want to buy an instrument outright? Not a problem buy it, get a serial number and boom done. No phone home no nothing except at the first initial launch when you enter your serial number, or when updating as part of the update

Want an all you can eat subscription service? Fine it's $20 a month. First month is free. Phones Home once a month when your new billing cycle starts. The system doesn't need to worry about hardware synths or lifetime keys just if it's current for the month if so everything works, if not everything is off

Presets for everything can be exported and then imported between hardware and software

That would make everything way easier as it just makes sense

Instead someone at Roland in Japan wanted to make it all one mess of a process
Old 6 days ago
  #4479
Lives for gear
 
realtrance's Avatar
 
🎧 10 years
Well it is true Roland has been stringently anti-piracy since at least the 90’s, when they had the MV-8000 and MV-8080 out. Even before those, they always released compressed or down sampled versions of their pristine 48kHz S760-oriented proprietary sample libraries. They clearly invested massively in those, and rightly didn’t want them splattered all over the internet.

But now, I think while they have every right to continue to protect their intellectual
property, they could seek for simpler sound and sample management than they currently offer. Obfuscation is one way to limit casual piracy, among those who neither understand nor respect nor even believe in private property, but it’s at a point now where it’s damaging the company’s connection with its customers.
Old 6 days ago | Show parent
  #4480
Gear Addict
 
RichardTK's Avatar
 
🎧 5 years
If piracy had been a concern, they wouldn't have had unverified email address sign up for trial subscriptions for Bast-knows how long.

What I'd really like to see is abandoning the single SRX modules entirely (as they're ALL clones of the XV one, including the JV, albeit with different sample and presets; I've hacked the presets before to load the stock set into a 'wrong' skin) and just one XV 'fully loaded' one.
Old 6 days ago
  #4481
Lives for gear
 
Eigenwert's Avatar
 
4 Reviews written
🎧 10 years
It seems like there are no plans to make the JD-800 a seperate "DCB" instrument, right? Like it was done with the D-50. I really like the JD-800. Obviously it has too many controls to make it into its own Boutique synth. Giving it a seperate GUI/ making it it a seperate plugin would be the nex best thing I think. For some reason I am not so much a fan of the Zenology presets mostly and without an own control surface I can't motivate myself into tweaking Zenology Pro. I think when using plugin GUIs I am more motivated when the tweaking possibilities are a bit more limited as it always feels more like a "job" and not like fun to deal with an overwhelming amount of parameters when using the mouse/ trackball. If there was a dedicated HW control surface for Zenology Pro, it might be a JD-800 on stereoids. However it's probably too complex for making it worthwhile to mass produce a HW controller for that.
Old 6 days ago | Show parent
  #4482
Lives for gear
 
grasspike's Avatar
 
🎧 5 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by RichardTK ➡️

What I'd really like to see is abandoning the single SRX modules entirely (as they're ALL clones of the XV one, including the JV, albeit with different sample and presets; I've hacked the presets before to load the stock set into a 'wrong' skin) and just one XV 'fully loaded' one.
This x1000!

And have it have it have all the waveforms and presets from all the SR-JV cards. Many of those waveforms don't exist in the SRX format and the presets were different in the SRX expansions than in the original SR-JV cards

They could also just port everything over to Zenology Pro.
Old 6 days ago | Show parent
  #4483
Lives for gear
 
grasspike's Avatar
 
🎧 5 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by Eigenwert ➡️
IFor some reason I am not so much a fan of the Zenology presets mostly and without an own control surface I can't motivate myself into tweaking Zenology Pro. I think when using plugin GUIs I am more motivated when the tweaking possibilities are a bit more limited as it always feels more like a "job" and not like fun to deal with an overwhelming amount of parameters when using the mouse/ trackball. If there was a dedicated HW control surface for Zenology Pro, it might be a JD-800 on stereoids.
I have often thought a dedicated hardware controller/programmer based on the JD-800 would be amazing for Zenology Pro. It's heart is still the four partial Eric Persing system from long ago
Old 6 days ago | Show parent
  #4484
Lives for gear
 
Eigenwert's Avatar
 
4 Reviews written
🎧 10 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by grasspike ➡️
I have often thought a dedicated hardware controller/programmer based on the JD-800 would be amazing for Zenology Pro. It's heart is still the four partial Eric Persing system from long ago
I think I personally would prefer such a controller over a knobby synth (which not only also has the control surface but also has the Zenology engine inside - and of course a prohibitive price tag as its disadvantage). However I think that - if anything - a synth with a sound engine inside would rather be a typical Roland product than a controller-only device. I remember that some time ago there was a figure stating that they want to attract many more clients to the Roland Cloud than already are using the Roland Cloud (which might imply that a Roland Cloud controller without internal sound engine could not have a big enough market so far [/yet?]). It's hard to say if such a controller would attract a significant amout of additional clients to the Roland Cloud - probably it's not a good bet, not sure. All I can say is that this would be a product I personally would love to see (by any manufacturer), as I like to use "digital polysynths" ITB (without a need to record them to get them to the DAW) and I like rather complex digital polysynths - however editing them only feels enjoyable with a knobby interface to me.

Last edited by Eigenwert; 6 days ago at 08:47 PM..
Old 6 days ago
  #4485
Lives for gear
 
Analogue Mastering's Avatar
 
🎧 10 years
I think you guys finally managed to cancel Brian.
Old 6 days ago | Show parent
  #4486
Gear Nut
Quote:
Originally Posted by Analogue Mastering ➡️
I think you guys finally managed to cancel Brian.
Or hes still traveling as he noted a week ago.
Old 6 days ago | Show parent
  #4487
Just uninstalled RCM even though I have the free Pro subscription that came with buying a 101. I love love love Roland's sounds but this is just unusable bug-ridden garbage for me, so I'll stay with Tal, Cherry, u-He, and Ultrabeat for my needs. I hope they sort things out, though. 🤘🏻
Old 6 days ago | Show parent
  #4488
Lives for gear
 
grasspike's Avatar
 
🎧 5 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by Eigenwert ➡️
I think I personally would prefer such a controller over a knobby synth (which not only also has the control surface but also has the Zenology engine inside - and of course a prohibitive price tag as its disadvantage). However I think that - if anything - a synth with a sound engine inside would rather be a typical Roland product than a controller-only device.
The Roland A-800 is now pretty long in the tooth but has a bunch of buttons, knobs, and sliders

Something like that where everything is pre mapped to Zenology Pro would be awesome
Old 6 days ago | Show parent
  #4489
Gear Addict
 
Gearspace Cadet's Avatar
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by grasspike ➡️
The Roland A-800 is now pretty long in the tooth but has a bunch of buttons, knobs, and sliders

Something like that where everything is pre mapped to Zenology Pro would be awesome
They should add system exclusive to zen pro like the Jupiter x , i could map it myself to my apro , but templates would be a time saver
Old 6 days ago
  #4490
Gear Nut
OK so an actual question about something not related to RCM...

Does anyone know what the scatter controls do in the SH-2 plugout? Having a hell of a time finding anything. Also the key hold button doesn't seem to work. Anyone else having that problem?
Old 6 days ago | Show parent
  #4491
Lives for gear
 
Eigenwert's Avatar
 
4 Reviews written
🎧 10 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by Analogue Mastering ➡️
I think you guys finally managed to cancel Brian.
He upvoted Reptil's post from two days ago asking for ending the war so he obviously made it through the nasty part already.
Old 6 days ago | Show parent
  #4492
Gear Nut
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Analogue Mastering ➡️
I think you guys finally managed to cancel Brian.
Hey, friends. I'm here. I was traveling to be with family last week, and then there was some catching up to be done. I've reported all of the concerns recently, I'm here to help.
Old 6 days ago | Show parent
  #4493
Gear Nut
Quote:
Originally Posted by BrianMcClelland ➡️
Hey, friends. I'm here. I was traveling to be with family last week, and then there was some catching up to be done. I've reported all of the concerns recently, I'm here to help.
Hey Brian welcome back. Hope you had some good time off. So asked the question here and also wrote to support but I dont think what support noted to me is correct. In the SH-2 plugout there was a scatter type dial and a scatter depth dial added to the plug-out. Sorta seems to correspond to whats on the System-1 hardware and thats the chart that support sent back to me but there is definitely a difference. Is it possible to find out from engineering just what these dials do? The help PDF that comes with the plug-out was written before this stuff showed up and I can't find any release notes either.
Old 6 days ago | Show parent
  #4494
Lives for gear
 
Fleer's Avatar
 
🎧 5 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by BrianMcClelland ➡️
Hey, friends. I'm here. I was traveling to be with family last week, and then there was some catching up to be done. I've reported all of the concerns recently, I'm here to help.
Good to have you back, Brian. You’re part of why I’m still into Roland Cloud.
Old 6 days ago | Show parent
  #4495
Lives for gear
 
Stormchild's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by rezoneight ➡️
OK so an actual question about something not related to RCM...

Does anyone know what the scatter controls do in the SH-2 plugout? Having a hell of a time finding anything. Also the key hold button doesn't seem to work. Anyone else having that problem?
Scatter is kinda the predecessor to the I-Arpeggiator feature on the X/Xm (where 'I' stands for 'intelligent', I think). It generates more interesting patterns than a standard arpeggiator, but you can also set it to 0 (center) for a typical arpeggio. The mono ACB plugins have it (at least some of them do) because it's a feature of the System-1 (though not included on the 1m).

The Key Hold button doesn't work on any of the plugins. Well, technically it does, in that it will hold any note you click in the on-screen keyboard (but only one at a time), which is pretty much useless. Most people would expect it to hold whatever notes you play via MIDI, but it doesn't do that.

One of my favorite things to do is get arpeggios of different lengths running on a few synths at the same time, then tweak the filters or play a lead over it. I do it all the time on my System-8, but it can't be done with the plugins.
Old 6 days ago | Show parent
  #4496
Lives for gear
 
Stormchild's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by Fleer ➡️
Good to have you back, Brian. You’re part of why I’m still into Roland Cloud.
I think I would have unsubscribed by now if he hadn't been here to let us know that someone is at least listening.
Old 6 days ago | Show parent
  #4497
Lives for gear
 
Septic's Avatar
 
🎧 10 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by Stormchild ➡️
I think I would have unsubscribed by now if he hadn't been here to let us know that someone is at least listening.
Yeah me too.

I think he deserves a nice bonus from Roland.
Old 6 days ago | Show parent
  #4498
Lives for gear
 
Septic's Avatar
 
🎧 10 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by konokoknk ➡️
Is there anypoint is buying a roland integra when roland cloud exists?

I was thinking of buying integra-7 years ago but never did, but have been enjoying roland cloud for a few months now. It seems to have all the same expansions that I wanted plus alot of cool synths and more. The only thing integra has is some supernatural sounds but I use kontakt for those.
No point.

I sold mine when the xv5080 and the srx expansions came to the cloud.

Also editing the integra depends on a third party editor. Shame on you Roland for abandoning this marvelous piece of studio equipment. But the times have changed. Totally 100% ITB these days.
Old 5 days ago | Show parent
  #4499
Lives for gear
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by BrianMcClelland ➡️
Hey, friends. I'm here. I was traveling to be with family last week, and then there was some catching up to be done. I've reported all of the concerns recently, I'm here to help.
Glad to have you back Brian!

Happy Roland Cloud user here (with very few and only minor issues with RCM :p)
Old 5 days ago | Show parent
  #4500
Lives for gear
 
Stormchild's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by Septic ➡️
Yeah me too.

I think he deserves a nice bonus from Roland.
Saving Private Brian
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