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-   -   ABL 3 Versus TB 303 Versus TT bass bot (https://gearspace.com/board/electronic-music-instruments-and-electronic-music-production/1115966-abl-3-versus-tb-303-versus-tt-bass-bot.html)

Deleted User 8th October 2016 07:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by cpkcpk (Post 12184442)
Here's ABL 3 doing Pattern 2, volume at 3 o'clock, VCO mode 2

wow peachh

antto 8th October 2016 10:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by decoder23
that's cool, some more tb303 recordings please =D
@ pete , yours sounds a little bit like my first re303, my second sounds like my tb

so is the "re303" recording he posted done with the re303 which sounds more like his tb?
just curious

Deleted User 9th October 2016 12:03 AM

Why don't you ask him?

theoneafter909 9th October 2016 12:43 AM

1 Attachment(s)
TT303, pattern 2.

Deleted b5734b5 9th October 2016 02:11 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by cpkcpk (Post 12184442)
Here's ABL 3 doing Pattern 2, volume at 3 o'clock, VCO mode 2

Call me nit picky, but those fake background noises are not helping at all. Everything else sounds good :)

re5etuk 9th October 2016 06:16 AM

I saw phuture play tonight. No idea which 303 they used but I didn't see mass walk outs based on the ramp of the accent or shrill of the resonance.

Just work with what you have , buy the one you can afford. Write a tune instead of analysing and arguing on an Internet forum.

El-Burrito 9th October 2016 07:28 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by decoder23 (Post 12184345)
Would be cool if more recordings show up , so far 2x303, 1xre303, xoxbox and tb3.. someone with a tt303, avalon and abl3 wanna join?

I recorded pattern 2 with TT.....to find out i had saw now square selected. Then i did new one and when i started to compare sound to yours i found out that my pattern is not correct. Then i thought i'd edit/upload it anyways, but then rather watched Westworld e2.

realtrance 9th October 2016 09:12 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by fiddlestickz (Post 12179522)
This why using Reason is so cool, all you purchases are there left with propellerheads, so any time you move or change computers or whatever major changes you have in your life, you can always just log into props and download them all again, even Reason it's self is always available to re download should you need it.. it's like they maintain everything, I just lease the software and use it whenever I want, it's a great way to have your music software I find.


Yeah I like that approach. A number of online software companies use it. You just have to hope that said company never goes out of business to the point where you lose it all (these days, can happen).

That's the value of an actual thing (although it will physically break, too, eventually). It doesn't have an umbilical cord tied to a business somewhere keeping it alive.

OTOH..... nothing is forever.abduction

I think the thing I like most about the TB-303 and all clones is that the sound can't be "imitated" between them, because -- at least in my experience of the music made by them over the years -- it's as much the result of the performer/musician's style with the instrument as the instrument itself.

Maybe that's part of the magic of the TB-303; "its" sound requires a combination of machinery and human to occur.

Of course this is true of all instruments, and all synths, for that matter, but the TB-303 has had sustained-enough obsession over a coupla decades to actually catch on as an instrument people fully play.

And the simplicity of the TB-303 is a huge factor; in the endless chase in the synth market here for yet another thing, people easily lose sight of the fact that, indeed, less is more. rockout

Deleted User 9th October 2016 09:51 AM

Where are the avalon fan boys when you need them? :D
Acidlab bass line 3 would be nice too.

antto 9th October 2016 10:42 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by decoder23
Why don't you ask him?

i just did, i thought you have ignored me so i expected someone else to answer
so, is that recording you posted done from the re303 which sounds more like your tb?

antto 9th October 2016 10:48 AM

i've been sitting on the avalon thread waiting for someone to post some non-crazy recording of it (dry or whole tracks)
my theory is that it's just not typical, same goes for the devilfish/x0xi0 and other such heavy mods
what could possibly happen when you break the limitations and extend everything..

Deleted User 9th October 2016 10:52 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by antto (Post 12185382)
i just did, i thought you have ignored me so i expected someone else to answer
so, is that recording you posted done from the re303 which sounds more like your tb?

it's the first one I built which has more resonance than my tb. it's the one which is closer to the tb recording from pete. the second re is the one which I made all the demos in the other threads.

antto 9th October 2016 12:55 PM

1 Attachment(s)
well, here's my 303 clone, interleaved with the reference, pattern2
at the required volume position, it doesn't clip as much as the reference, which is probably because of the BA6110
the envmod range is also a tiny bit larger than the reference

evosilica 9th October 2016 06:49 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by antto (Post 12185521)
well, here's my 303 clone

Also a x0xb0x, right?
Sounds pretty much spot on to me, I could not tell which one is which.
TT303 also sounds very close to me, though the cutoff is set a bit lower than the reference and the accent seems to have a slightly slower filter attack time.
ABL3 sounds very good too, though the dry square without resonance has a more bassy character.
TB3 is by far the easiest to spot so far. ;)

evosilica 9th October 2016 07:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by antto (Post 12185971)
yes, it's a x0xb0x from a willzyx kit, no extra vintage components used
i've only adjusted TM3 and R97 to match the reference

Just curious, did you have to tweak R45 too or was the square correct right of the bat?

My first x0x from x0xsh0p (standard parts) was quite off, the current one has some of the rare parts inside, but still needed a little tweaking of R45 to match the reference exactly. I've heard other x0xes that also had this issue more or less, which is strange.

evosilica 9th October 2016 08:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sdesign75 (Post 12186030)
Okay, here is pattern2 on the MB33 Retro (square wave)...

Is this really fully set to square? In the beginning it sounds more like a saw/sqare mix to me.
And why no accents?

sdesign75 9th October 2016 08:21 PM

1 Attachment(s)
Quote:

Originally Posted by evosilica (Post 12186050)
Is this really fully set to square? In the beginning it sounds more like a saw/sqare mix to me.
And why no accents?

I uploaded the wrong file. Doh! I used my Engine to sequence as the MB33 has no sequencer and its velocity was turned down from my last session which meant the Accent wasn't being triggered. Had to record it again. Here's the proper file...

Oh, and yes the MB33 is turned fully to the left (Square wave). Not very square sounding, is it?

evosilica 9th October 2016 08:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sdesign75 (Post 12186076)
Oh, and yes the MB33 is turned fully to the left (Square wave). Not very square sounding, is it?

Indeed. What was the volume knob set to? Could be that it distorts its internal amplifier much more than a tb303 at max volume.
It also seems to have a highly extended cutoff range. Would you mind doing another run with the settings matched by ear?

sdesign75 9th October 2016 08:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by evosilica (Post 12186089)
Indeed. What was the volume knob set to? Could be that it distorts its internal amplifier much more than a tb303 at max volume.
It also seems to have a highly extended cutoff range. Would you mind doing another run with the settings matched by ear?

Yes, the volume is at max, I'll try and reduce it. Also I have tweaked the cutoff offset and range using the screws accessible at the back. I'll try and match the settings and try again. Sorry, as you've probably guessed I'm not great at this kind of thing hidz

evosilica 9th October 2016 08:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sdesign75 (Post 12186096)
Sorry, as you've probably guessed I'm not great at this kind of thing hidz

No reason to apologize. I think it's great you've joined the game and post examples kfhkh

evosilica 9th October 2016 09:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by antto (Post 12186118)
no
but this is the same x0x i used some time ago in another thread and i calibrated R45 against a reference from decoder23

So it was a bit off, too? I wonder why this is the case with so many x0xb0xes.

Quote:

Originally Posted by antto (Post 12186118)
i won't draw any conclusions here, folks have ears, this clone is good enough for me, the biggest difference was the sequencer, but that has been covered additionally (biased opinion)

I only draw conlcusions based on my own observations. And thanks to this thread and the people posting great audio examples, I could draw them.
My example changes between 303 and x0x every other bar, yet it sounds to me that there's only one synth playing. So to me the x0xb0x, when calibrated, sounds spot on. I'm happy.
Regarding the sequencer, I don't hear any difference in "groove" or whatever, also looking at the scope I could not see any significant difference in timing.
However I can understand that some people prefer the original programming style. It's an interesting workflow and will definitely will lead to different patterns.

sdesign75 9th October 2016 09:02 PM

1 Attachment(s)
Another attempt at the MB33 Retro.

I actually had to take the volume below 50% to stop the distortion! Should sound like a square wave now. I tried to match the sound as best I could by tweaking the cutoff range/offset but I'm not that good at this to be honest so I'm not sure if it's an improvement.

evosilica 9th October 2016 09:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sdesign75 (Post 12186146)
Another attempt at the MB33 Retro.

I actually had to take the volume below 50% to stop the distortion! Should sound like a square wave now. I tried to match the sound as best I could by tweaking the cutoff range/offset but I'm not that good at this to be honest so I'm not sure if it's an improvement.

It definitely is.

To me it sounds like it uses a square oscillator with constant pulsewidth over pitch, unlike the tb303, where the pulse width changes a little with pitch.

Also the cutoff at the end is very low, no tb303 could ever reach this low without changing R47.

But it sounds cool. I'd definitely prefer it to a tb3. ;)

sdesign75 9th October 2016 09:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by evosilica (Post 12186172)
It definitely is.

To me it sounds like it uses a square oscillator with constant pulsewidth over pitch, unlike the tb303, where the pulse width changes a little with pitch.

Also the cutoff at the end is very low, no tb303 could ever reach this low without changing R47.

But it sounds cool. I'd definitely prefer it to a tb3. ;)

Yes, I agree, it's sounds way better than my TB-3 (which I've only really hung on to because it recieves MIDI CC's).

The cutoff is very low for the last two settings. I think that's why I tweaked the cutoff offset up but obviously it had an impact at the top end. I'll have another go at tweaking it.

I just checked the MB's manual...

"A maximum volume can – for certain parameter settings – lead to overriding of the output signal (Accent on maximum, Resonance to minimum) , which becomes noticeable in form of distortions as a consequence. Turn down the Volume, if this is not a desired effect."

sdesign75 9th October 2016 09:36 PM

1 Attachment(s)
Quote:

Originally Posted by evosilica (Post 12186172)
Also the cutoff at the end is very low, no tb303 could ever reach this low without changing R47.

Okay, tweaked the offset a bit to increase the cutoff settings slightly. Is this better?

sdesign75 9th October 2016 10:09 PM

What do you mean by instant slide?

Eigenwert 10th October 2016 09:06 AM

The x0x from evo is so close I think I couldn't spot it in a blind test.
Funny enough the ABL2 which some say is the best emulation (maybe they meant 'software' emulation) seems quite easy to spot - also in that video everyone seemed to be impressed of ("almost no phasing when both are playing" or something like that).

TornadoTed 10th October 2016 09:51 AM

I recently did a remix of an acid tune for a friend and he has an original 303. I found the sample he gave me too resonant so I bought ABL3 and used that instead. I thought it sounded really good and actually worked better in the track. As a test I tried to replicate his squealing resonant 303 sample, I couldn't get it anywhere near as resonant and aggressive as the real 303 with the control at max.

audiorealism 10th October 2016 09:56 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Deleted b5734b5 (Post 12184980)
Call me nit picky, but those fake background noises are not helping at all. Everything else sounds good :)

We have an update coming which removes those noises, it will sound much cleaner. Also we are bumping the accent a little more in lower cutoff settings, so I think you guys will like it..!
--Mike

Deleted b5734b5 10th October 2016 12:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by audiorealism (Post 12186922)
We have an update coming which removes those noises, it will sound much cleaner. Also we are bumping the accent a little more in lower cutoff settings, so I think you guys will like it..!
--Mike

kfhkh