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-   -   ABL 3 Versus TB 303 Versus TT bass bot (https://gearspace.com/board/electronic-music-instruments-and-electronic-music-production/1115966-abl-3-versus-tb-303-versus-tt-bass-bot.html)

evosilica 6th October 2016 12:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dick Martini (Post 12178717)
I made this little comparison video a while back. Includes one of my tb303s compared to a xoxbox, tb3 and tt303.

That's cool, but I think the settings are not properly matched to be able to compare nuances.

The tb3's cutoff seems lower, while its accent is much stronger
The tt303 seems to play a different pattern, it seems like there's a pause at the end
The x0xb0x's square wave pulse width is a bit off, which can be calibrated

All in all not really a fair contest in my opinion.

Jeeroj 6th October 2016 12:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by evosilica (Post 12179603)
That's cool, but I think the settings are not properly matched to be able to compare nuances.

The tb3's cutoff seems lower, while its accent is much stronger
The tt303 seems to play a different pattern, it seems like there's a pause at the end
The x0xb0x's square wave pulse width is a bit off, which can be calibrated

All in all not really a fair contest in my opinion.


This is the issue we're dealing with here, they're different machines which sound different so I'm not sure how you're supposed to match them exactly. What would people consider to be matched?

TT - VERY punchy, the pots have a different range and also response (IMO, it's like you take a slightly different road to get home). Also the accent is very loud and super punchy in a hard way, if I had to give it a sound it'd be 'honk/donk'. Accent-filter response is different.

x0xb0x - my x0xb0x seems more gentle that my TT, I prefer the sound of it but it doesn't cut through like the Bassbot. I feel like there is more variation in dynamics within this machine. However, accent behaviour is much closer to a TB, the 'Wau' of the filter opening is such a big part of the 303 sound and the x0xb0x does it wayyy better than the TT. Lots of people have said the x0xb0x square wave isn't quite the same as the TB so matching it would be hard.

Trying to get those to both match settings on a TB is ok for static settings but it's the movement and interaction between these points that makes the OG sound so good. :synth:

I've used ABL a few times, I'd love to see a little hardware version from them - the GUI's make me wish they were real!!

Of course, these are my opinions, all pretty subjective, If my soundcard worked I'd do some comparisons but to be honest I'm not sure I'd want to share them here only to have nitpicky types complain about everything. You can compare them but I'm not sure you can "match" them to each other.

What they're asking for is impossible. "Make them all sound the same then we can compare them", it just doesn't seem possible to me. Proving Bigfoot DOES exist is easier than proving it doesn't.

sorry for ramble hidz

Deleted User 6th October 2016 12:46 PM

4 Attachment(s)
here are 2 patterns (same patterns with different accents/slides), 120 bpm, Volume at 3 o'clock, recorded straight into the fireface uc, no processing and so on ^^

Each pattern contains 12 different settings:
  1. cutoff100_res_0_env100_dec100_acc100
  2. cutoff0_res_0_env100_dec100_acc100
  3. cutoff0_res_0_env100_dec0_acc100
  4. cutoff100_res_0_env100_dec0_acc100
  5. cutoff100_res_100_env0_dec0_acc100
  6. cutoff100_res_100_env100_dec0_acc100
  7. cutoff100_res_100_env0_dec100_acc100
  8. cutoff100_res_100_env100_dec100_acc100
  9. cutoff0_res_100_env100_dec100_acc100
  10. cutoff0_res_100_env0_dec100_acc100
  11. cutoff0_res_100_env0_dec0_acc100
  12. cutoff0_res_100_env0_dec0_acc0

Jeeroj 6th October 2016 12:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by decoder23 (Post 12179651)
here are 2 patterns (same patterns with different accents/slides), 120 bpm. Each pattern contains 12 different settings:

Out of curiosity, is this with the TB-303 volume knob at max?

evosilica 6th October 2016 12:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jeeroj (Post 12179643)
This is the issue we're dealing with here, they're different machines which sound different so I'm not sure how you're supposed to match them exactly. What would people consider to be matched?

I don't understand your problem with my post. I'm not claiming that any clone can be matched exactly, but in order to do a fair comparision they should be matched as close as possible, which was not the case IMO

Compare 2 TB-303s which don't have the same calibration of the internal TM3 pot and they won't sound the same either, because the filters will have different cutoff frequencies, despite the same setting. However adjusting the cutoff by ear (or better by frequency analysis) will match them as close as possible. Only then one can discuss about the subtle nuances. That's all I'm saying.


Quote:

Originally Posted by Jeeroj (Post 12179643)
Proving Bigfoot DOES exist is easier than proving it doesn't.

Sorry, but that analogy is ridiculous.

Deleted User 6th October 2016 12:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jeeroj (Post 12179656)
Out of curiosity, is this with the TB-303 volume knob at max?

ah yes, forgot to mention, it's at 3 o'clock, will edit it in the post :P

evosilica 6th October 2016 12:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by decoder23 (Post 12179651)
here are 2 patterns (same patterns with different accents/slides), 120 bpm, Volume at 3 o'clock, recorded straight into the fireface uc, no processing and so on ^^

That's brilliant. Looking forward to see how close I can get.

Many thanks for the effort, decoder kfhkh

Deleted User 6th October 2016 12:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by evosilica (Post 12179662)
That's brilliant. Looking forward to see how close I can get.

Many thanks for the effort, decoder kfhkh

you're welcome, have fun :)

Jeeroj 6th October 2016 12:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by evosilica (Post 12179657)
I don't understand your problem with my post. I'm not claiming that any clone can be matched exactly, but in order to do a fair comparision they should be matched as close as possible, which was the case IMO

Compare 2 TB-303 which don't have the same calibration of the internal TM3 pot and they won't sound the same either, because the filters will have different cutoff frequencies, despite the same setting. However adjusting the cutoff by ear (or better by frequency analysis) will match them as close as possible. Only then one can discuss about the subtle nuances. That's all I'm saying.

Easy now, Crazy Horse, I wasn't having a go at you, merely musing and actually agreeing with you. My point was that they are all different so we'll all struggle to get "exact" comparisons that everyone will be happy with.

Go eat a bowl of Bro-flakes and chill out, I am not your enemy. abduction

EDIT: out of curiosity, which clone do you own?

evosilica 6th October 2016 01:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jeeroj (Post 12179666)
Easy now, Crazy Horse, I wasn't having a go at you, merely musing and actually agreeing with you. My point was that they are all different so we'll all struggle to get "exact" comparisons that everyone will be happy with.

Go eat a bowl of Bro-flakes and chill out, I am not your enemy. abduction

I don't see too much agreement, but ok.

Jeeroj 6th October 2016 01:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jeeroj (Post 12179643)

Trying to get those to both match settings on a TB is ok for static settings but it's the movement and interaction between these points that makes the OG sound so good. :synth:

Of course, these are my opinions, all pretty subjective

What they're asking for is impossible. "Make them all sound the same then we can compare them", it just doesn't seem possible to me.

In a nutshell, they all have their own nuances, the knobs get you to similar sounds but via a different route therefore exact comparisons aren't really possible.

Come round for a cup of tea, you can have a listen to my machines, I love it all!

here's some **** 3 way acid line

Mushy Mushy 6th October 2016 01:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jeeroj (Post 12179656)
Out of curiosity, is this with the TB-303 volume knob at max?

I'm curious why you ask.
I run my TT at max volume always. Should I tame it?

Jeeroj 6th October 2016 01:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mushy Mushy (Post 12179722)
I'm curious why you ask.
I run my TT at max volume always. Should I tame it?

It's to do with an extra gain stage after the volume knob. Hold on I'll find a video Brian did comparing the avalon to a TB where he mentions this...

Deleted User 6th October 2016 01:47 PM

1 Attachment(s)
the 303 starts to slightly distort at full volume at some settings which makes the 303 a bit more aggressive sounding :P it's more or less another "tone" control ^^ don't know how it is at the tt303..

here is a comparison :lol: first with volume at 3 o'clock, next 4 measures with full volume, I tried to match the volume in the daw..

Jeeroj 6th October 2016 01:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mushy Mushy (Post 12179722)
I'm curious why you ask.
I run my TT at max volume always. Should I tame it?

He starts discussing it at about 3:50. I'm not sure if it's the same with x0xb0xes and Bassbots but I'd imagine so..


Dick Martini 6th October 2016 03:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jeeroj (Post 12179643)
This is the issue we're dealing with here, they're different machines which sound different so I'm not sure how you're supposed to match them exactly. What would people consider to be matched?
...

Of course, these are my opinions, all pretty subjective, If my soundcard worked I'd do some comparisons but to be honest I'm not sure I'd want to share them here only to have nitpicky types complain about everything. You can compare them but I'm not sure you can "match" them to each other.

What they're asking for is impossible. "Make them all sound the same then we can compare them", it just doesn't seem possible to me.

Ha! Love that last line. Agreed! For anyone that's going to be so picky, the only real comparison is to have the machines right in front of them. But then the person is going to want to open them up and calibrate them all for three hrs.

I made that video as a quick comparison when the TB3 came out - turn on the machines, program a comparable pattern, and go. Like most people who buy a clone are going to do - turn 'em on and make music.

Dont get me wrong, I love the more clinical comparisons too, but I think you hit the nail in the head - there are some people who will never be satisfied.

They do serve an important purpose though... to push manufacturers towards making better clones. More power to 'em. Meanwhile I'll be over hear noodling. :)

sdesign75 6th October 2016 06:59 PM

Not as scientific (or volume matched) as yours but I used pattern 2 and swept through the extreme settings with my TB-3 and MB33 Retro.

1st - TB-3 Square
2nd - TB-3 Saw
3rd - MB33 Square
4th - MB33 Saw

Edit: Sorry I can't get the upload feature on this forum to work.

kuroichi 7th October 2016 02:40 AM

Just to clarify, the TT-303 does have the mild distortion after a similar point on the main volume dial. Can be quite useful, although it is a subtle difference.

R7P 7th October 2016 04:18 AM

My Acidlab Bombass (mega 303 clone) has a rather large amount of very awesome sounding distortion when you turn the volume past 3 o'clock. I'm assuming the Acidlab Bassline has a similar feature but I haven't used one to say for sure.

Deleted User 7th October 2016 08:11 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sdesign75 (Post 12180345)
Not as scientific (or volume matched) as yours but I used pattern 2 and swept through the extreme settings with my TB-3 and MB33 Retro.

1st - TB-3 Square
2nd - TB-3 Saw
3rd - MB33 Square
4th - MB33 Saw

Edit: Sorry I can't get the upload feature on this forum to work.

if the files are > 10mb you can't upload them, that's why I rendered mine as high Q mp3s

sdesign75 7th October 2016 08:52 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by decoder23 (Post 12181559)
if the files are > 10mb you can't upload them, that's why I rendered mine as high Q mp3s

Okay thanks, it said 20mb on the upload page which explains it

pete1024 8th October 2016 12:16 PM

1 Attachment(s)
Here's my TB-303 playing decoder's pattern2. Same knob positions, volume at 3 oclock. Recorded straight into my Octatrack.

Mine definitely has more resonance that decoder's.

I put the pattern into my TB-3 too, but it wasn't worth recording. :D

Deleted User 8th October 2016 12:45 PM

that's cool, some more tb303 recordings please =D
@ pete , yours sounds a little bit like my first re303, my second sounds like my tb

Deleted User 8th October 2016 01:22 PM

1 Attachment(s)
here we go =)

evosilica 8th October 2016 01:58 PM

1 Attachment(s)
I'll add my re-calibrated x0xb0x approximation as well. Quite happy with the outcome.

It's alternating between decoder's 303 and my x0x every one bar.

Volume also at ~3o'clock, as I get the same clipping at max vol.

evosilica 8th October 2016 02:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by decoder23 (Post 12183927)
here we go =)

Is it me or is the pattern not exactly the same. I think it's the 9th or 10th step, should be 2 semitones higher ??

pete1024 8th October 2016 02:35 PM

1 Attachment(s)
This is the Aira TB-3 doing pattern 2. I accidentally recorded it too quiet so had to boost the volume in audacity but it doesn't really affect things.

I'm actually shocked how close it sounds to decoders first 303 recording, the square wave loses that 303 sound slightly with the higher resonance but overall it's a much better emulation than I thought.

Deleted User 8th October 2016 02:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by evosilica (Post 12183964)
Is it me or is the pattern not exactly the same. I think it's the 9th or 10th step, should be 2 semitones higher ??

checked it and it's the same ^^

Deleted User 8th October 2016 06:28 PM

Would be cool if more recordings show up , so far 2x303, 1xre303, xoxbox and tb3.. someone with a tt303, avalon and abl3 wanna join?

cpkcpk 8th October 2016 07:20 PM

1 Attachment(s)
Here's ABL 3 doing Pattern 2, volume at 3 o'clock, VCO mode 2