The No.1 Website for Pro Audio
Roland System 8
Old 25th November 2022 | Show parent
  #10171
Lives for gear
 
cutlery's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by MPrinsen ➡️
Yes, but what about the (imo much more important) filter envelope? Does it change to the 106 filter envelope as well when you change it on the 60 engine?

I think it does when you change filters on the S8..
No idea; though based on the layout of the VST the 60/106 switch is for the HP filter, not the LP filter; this gives the j60 plugout the same low end oomph the 106 has.

I'd imagine they keep with the hardware envelope emulation of the 60 either way as I haven't detected envelope changes.

In the s-8 engine the top end filter cutoff and thus envelope amount behavior changes, but the shape of the envelopes doesn't seem to change to me.

It would be nice if the manual told us!
Old 25th November 2022 | Show parent
  #10172
Gear Head
Hi all,

I wanted to let you know that the overlays for the system 8 are now available. I am not associated with them I Just think it is a neat idea, so I ordered them.

https://www.synthoverlays.com/produc...gory/system-8/
Old 25th November 2022 | Show parent
  #10173
Lives for gear
 
🎧 5 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by cutlery ➡️
No idea; though based on the layout of the VST the 60/106 switch is for the HP filter, not the LP filter; this gives the j60 plugout the same low end oomph the 106 has.

I'd imagine they keep with the hardware envelope emulation of the 60 either way as I haven't detected envelope changes.

In the s-8 engine the top end filter cutoff and thus envelope amount behavior changes, but the shape of the envelopes doesn't seem to change to me.

It would be nice if the manual told us!
Self-oscillate the filter and modulate it with the env, view the results in a spectrogram, should be able to see the curves that way.
Old 25th November 2022 | Show parent
  #10174
Lives for gear
 
depulse's Avatar
 
🎧 10 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ralis ➡️
Hi all,

I wanted to let you know that the overlays for the system 8 are now available. I am not associated with them I Just think it is a neat idea, so I ordered them.

https://www.synthoverlays.com/produc...gory/system-8/
Are they self adhesive or can they easily be removed?
Old 25th November 2022 | Show parent
  #10175
Lives for gear
 
flat's Avatar
 
🎧 10 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by depulse ➡️
Are they self adhesive or can they easily be removed?
I assume they are magnetic being sold in 'set of 3' packs?
Old 26th November 2022 | Show parent
  #10176
Lives for gear
 
🎧 10 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by flat ➡️
I assume they are magnetic being sold in 'set of 3' packs?
From the description it looks to be simple plastic.
Old 26th November 2022 | Show parent
  #10177
Lives for gear
 
flat's Avatar
 
🎧 10 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by wald ➡️
From the description it looks to be simple plastic.
Wonder what adhesion they use. If they are sold in a pack of 3 overlays, you would assume that they could be removed and replaced.

However, the one I got from Synth Graphics for my JDXa was pretty much permanent. That synth didn't have a metal faceplate though. The System 8 of course has a metal facia on top of plastic casing, which would make sense for some kind of magnetised material. (guess that would be quite expensive to do though).
Old 26th November 2022 | Show parent
  #10178
Gear Maniac
Quote:
Originally Posted by BrianMcClelland ➡️
Hi, NewIgnis. Brian from Roland Cloud here. I understand your point. We have plenty of members in the community that just get a Lifetime Key for their favorite instruments, or pause their memberships when they aren't actively using them. Lifetime Keys are great if you want some access - all of the time, and membership is great if you want all access - for some of the time. Thanks!
Hi Brian, I needed to think a while about why I'm missing a bit of confidence in the Roland brand approach these days. I believe it to be the perception it wants to do things fully their own way, not always in the musician's or customer's interest. Let me give some examples:

- Allthough this thread alone has already 340 pages, showing what impact the System-8 has on its community, there are more signs Roland is going for the Zen Core technology, not for the ACB technology. We, ACB lovers, feel a bit abandoned. The only changes we get to see these days have more to do with cloud logins and the likes, which is a direction not everyone is prepared to go. At least I'm not

- There is this feeling Roland keeps relying on their famous analog history, using modern technology only to safeguard this heritage, instead of "bodly going where none has gone before" . The System-8 was a bit of fresh air, as it has its own unique sound to it, and it showed respect for the Roland heritage (the System-8 is acutally the reason in 2017 I fell in love with synthesizers again after a 20 year break!). But then it got its wings clipped by a ridiculously small amount of patch storage and a keyboard that is not the regular depth and no aftertouch. That felt as a double message, as if the Aira engineers were allowed to bring a synth on the market, but it shouldn't be too good. I'm not saying it was like that, I'm just stating the impression it gave me.

- Allthough there is a world wide standard for parameter control, called SysEx, that can open up the most complex synth in a generic way, Roland chooses for a closed eco-system using file transfer combined with the limited CC control. The new JD-08 has no SysEx, and i'm not going to make patches by fiddling physical faders with such small travel. As a result I only acquired the SE02 and the D05 boutiques. Both deliver fully on parameter control. Even the System-8 is not 100% covered in that area. Why? It is my believe the electronic world profits from open standards. Probably also the reason why modular is such a success nowadays: what simpler and open standard can there be than a gate and a CV? Every brand can be connected to any other brand, inspiring creativity and freedom for the music maker.

- I do not mind anti-piracy dongles and control, but I find it a good practice this is done through a common tool/standard, such as iLok, which is not periodically controlling and does not need a paid subscription.

Last but not least, I do hope Roland can proof me100% wrong ....
and in the coming years we see the mighty System-32 appear having all poly plugouts standard on board, a gazillion memory patches, poly aftertouch and 5 octaves, 20 filter types, multi split and layering and no subscription at all! Only a free Roland community login, where musicians all over the world can share their patches in a SysEx formats.

What a wonderful world this can be
Old 26th November 2022
  #10179
Lives for gear
 
Breaks Dude's Avatar
 
1 Review written
🎧 10 years
Yeah I don't know about these overlays. Would have been better IMO if they just did a JP8 color scheme and labeled every knob. Why? Because if you switch to another model, you will not remember (or will have to memorize) what the unmarked knobs actually do. If you don't then you'll have to swap overlays or just remove it. This doesn't make sense to me unless you're using it 100% of the time as a JP8, 106 or a JX3P.
Attached Thumbnails
Roland System 8-screen-shot-2022-11-26-1.12.08-pm.png  
Old 27th November 2022 | Show parent
  #10180
Lives for gear
 
Stormchild's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mister B ➡️
I agree
The System 8 Vst can give you the same sounds that you get with the Jupiter 8 with the Jupiter filter + it can do more than the Jupiter.
The System-8 engine doesn’t have the JP-8’s unique arpeggiator behavior, which is a deal breaker for me.
Old 27th November 2022
  #10181
Lives for gear
 
Breaks Dude's Avatar
 
1 Review written
🎧 10 years
How do you guys feel the System 8 works as a controller. I'm doing some rearranging and it seems, out of all my hardware keyboards, the System 8 has enough knobs and sliders to control literally any VST or other hardware synth in my room. Does that make sense?
Old 27th November 2022 | Show parent
  #10182
Gear Addict
 
🎧 10 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by Breaks Dude ➡️
Yeah I don't know about these overlays. Would have been better IMO if they just did a JP8 color scheme and labeled every knob. Why? Because if you switch to another model, you will not remember (or will have to memorize) what the unmarked knobs actually do. If you don't then you'll have to swap overlays or just remove it. This doesn't make sense to me unless you're using it 100% of the time as a JP8, 106 or a JX3P.
These overlays use no adhesive. So you can remove them apparently very easily (like I don't think you even need to remove knobs, you just set them down).

My guess is the point is to have all the overlays that you have in your system 8 and then swap them out when you want to use a different plugout.

This seems cool in theory, you could then actually shut off the green lights and not even think about them.

I might actually get them all for that purpose, although it is a bit wonky to swap out overlays all the time. I saw his posts on facebook and they do lay very flat.

One thing that isn't clear to me is how similar (or dissimilar) the Juno 60 plugout is from the 106 plug out, because right now I have the 60 and not the 106. If they're the same, I guess I wouldn't be too bothered that it said 106 rather than 60.
Old 27th November 2022
  #10183
Deleted fc05ec0
Guest
The JX-3P overlay looks really nice, too bad I have a Jupiter 4 living in that slot.
Old 27th November 2022 | Show parent
  #10184
Gear Addict
 
🎧 10 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by Deleted fc05ec0 ➡️
The JX-3P overlay looks really nice, too bad I have a Jupiter 4 living in that slot.
He said he is making a J4 overlay as well, but it's not out yet. Same goes for the Juno 60 plug out.

I asked him if it was possible to do something like a System 8 color scheme as in Color Palette #1248 on this website (here).

Where background is grey.
LEDs are green (obviously).
Block section titles in yellow, salmon, and red.

Seems like it could look cool - not sure how hard it is for him to run through these and make something.
Old 27th November 2022 | Show parent
  #10185
Gear Maniac
Quote:
Originally Posted by Breaks Dude ➡️
How do you guys feel the System 8 works as a controller. I'm doing some rearranging and it seems, out of all my hardware keyboards, the System 8 has enough knobs and sliders to control literally any VST or other hardware synth in my room. Does that make sense?
It’s complicated.

You can’t change the CC assignments on the System-8. That implies that it is only useful to control synths or VST in which you can reassign their CC’s. But Even then, an issue you will quickly encounter are the select switches (those with three or more values). Suppose you have a selector on the System-8 with 5 values with which you want to control a value on the VST with 4 values: it is almost never foreseen you can properly set each individual value for such a select list on a receiving instrument. That may lead to mismatches or values on the vst that will be systematically skipped. Hence all selectors will be of limited use.
Last but not least , if an instrument uses 8 bit for a parameter (0-255), you can’t scale the System-8 to that range.

I tried using the System-8 as a controller but it’s not intuitive. What we’d need is someone making an app that listens on one channel to the System-8, and converts those parameters and their values for the destination synth on another midi channel.
I myself ended up buying an Electra One controller the purpose of controlling vst’s or 19” rack synths.
Old 28th November 2022 | Show parent
  #10186
Lives for gear
 
login's Avatar
 
2 Reviews written
🎧 10 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by NewIgnis ➡️
It’s complicated.

You can’t change the CC assignments on the System-8. That implies that it is only useful to control synths or VST in which you can reassign their CC’s. But Even then, an issue you will quickly encounter are the select switches (those with three or more values). Suppose you have a selector on the System-8 with 5 values with which you want to control a value on the VST with 4 values: it is almost never foreseen you can properly set each individual value for such a select list on a receiving instrument. That may lead to mismatches or values on the vst that will be systematically skipped. Hence all selectors will be of limited use.
Last but not least , if an instrument uses 8 bit for a parameter (0-255), you can’t scale the System-8 to that range.

I tried using the System-8 as a controller but it’s not intuitive. What we’d need is someone making an app that listens on one channel to the System-8, and converts those parameters and their values for the destination synth on another midi channel.
I myself ended up buying an Electra One controller the purpose of controlling vst’s or 19” rack synths.
that being said some plugins map well because they have midi learn and the layout is close, Diva is a good example, I use the system 8 with it a lot.
Old 28th November 2022 | Show parent
  #10187
Gear Maniac
Quote:
Originally Posted by login ➡️
that being said some plugins map well because they have midi learn and the layout is close, Diva is a good example, I use the system 8 with it a lot.
Yep. Some do map well.
Old 29th November 2022 | Show parent
  #10188
Lives for gear
 
Breaks Dude's Avatar
 
1 Review written
🎧 10 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by NewIgnis ➡️
It’s complicated.

You can’t change the CC assignments on the System-8. That implies that it is only useful to control synths or VST in which you can reassign their CC’s. But Even then, an issue you will quickly encounter are the select switches (those with three or more values). Suppose you have a selector on the System-8 with 5 values with which you want to control a value on the VST with 4 values: it is almost never foreseen you can properly set each individual value for such a select list on a receiving instrument. That may lead to mismatches or values on the vst that will be systematically skipped. Hence all selectors will be of limited use.
Last but not least , if an instrument uses 8 bit for a parameter (0-255), you can’t scale the System-8 to that range.

I tried using the System-8 as a controller but it’s not intuitive. What we’d need is someone making an app that listens on one channel to the System-8, and converts those parameters and their values for the destination synth on another midi channel.
I myself ended up buying an Electra One controller the purpose of controlling vst’s or 19” rack synths.
Thank you for saving me the headache.

I really do wish there existed a keyboard controller with as many knobs and sliders as the System 8.
Old 29th November 2022
  #10189
Lives for gear
 
ralphNYC's Avatar
When using the system 8 to control system 8 VST, I can’t figure out how to change the patch on the vst when I change patch on the hardware. Is that possible?
Old 29th November 2022 | Show parent
  #10190
Lives for gear
 
login's Avatar
 
2 Reviews written
🎧 10 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by ralphNYC ➡️
When using the system 8 to control system 8 VST, I can’t figure out how to change the patch on the vst when I change patch on the hardware. Is that possible?
Nope, the best case is to send it to the VST, i think the plugin has a button to get it.
Old 4th December 2022 | Show parent
  #10191
Quote:
Originally Posted by Deleted fc05ec0 ➡️
The JX-3P overlay looks really nice, too bad I have a Jupiter 4 living in that slot.
I think that one looks the best on the System-8. The others not so much.
Old 4th December 2022 | Show parent
  #10192
Hey all!

I'm trying to get my system 8 as a control surface inside pro tools.

Im on Windows 10, running pro tools Ultimate version 2022.9.0, the most up to date System 8 driver on the Roland support page, and version 1.32 of the System 8 firmware.

On the system 8 itself, I have the System->Sound->Local Sw: set to Surface.

However, its not showing up at all in Pro Tools. No midi instrument receives keyboard or midi CC. Additionally in the Pro Tools Setup->Peripherals->Midi Controllers the System 8 doesn't show up as an option.

On the Track selection with the Instrument tab selected, I can choose All, System 8 (emulated) or System 8 CTRL (emulated) but neither do anything.

Anyone able to help me out?

I am connected t the PC via USB

Thank you!
Old 14th December 2022 | Show parent
  #10193
Gear Head
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Breaks Dude ➡️
Thank you for saving me the headache.

I really do wish there existed a keyboard controller with as many knobs and sliders as the System 8.
Another possibility - CC re-mapping:

https://www.bluecataudio.com/Tutoria...MIDICCMapping/
Old 14th December 2022 | Show parent
  #10194
Gear Maniac
Quote:
Originally Posted by BillB ➡️
Another possibility - CC re-mapping:

https://www.bluecataudio.com/Tutoria...MIDICCMapping/
The idea is good, but the shown toolset is too limited. It will work well with continuous faders, but not for selectors. Imagine the source is a selector with options for 5 waveforms, and you want to use it to control a destination with only 4 waveforms. Chances are the translation will not always happen 1-to-1.
Old 14th December 2022 | Show parent
  #10195
Gear Head
 
I'm sure you are right, the idea of matching one set of switch positions to a different number of switch positions is inherently a problem.

AFAIK, when I have tried to match a 1-128 controller range to a switched set of parameters, the range simply gets divided evenly by the number of positions. So four switch positions would be 1-32, 33-64, 65-96, 97-128 (or thereabouts) and for five positions would be 1-25, 26-50, 51-75, 76-100, 100-128 (or thereabouts - you can do the maths a bit more carefully).

In reality, I think the first number that crosses the threshold range is sent (1, 32, 65, 97 or 1, 26, 51, 76, 100) but anything in the switch range will be accepted at the receiving end. So the first two sent numbers of the five position switch (1,26) would both register as position one (1-32) of the four position switch... and the four position switch would not send the required CC (>100) to activate the last 5-position range....

Urgh - I think... long time since I played with these numbers. The MIDI spec-sheets of the more clearly specified (usually older) MIDI gear sets all this out. Agreed, it's never perfect. It looks like the Blue Cat Remote Control can set input-output scaling which would help in some cases.
Old 14th December 2022
  #10196
Lives for gear
 
ralphNYC's Avatar
One thing I “discovered” this week is that the audio input sounds great in the System 8. I’ve been experimenting with S8 as audio interface with my computer and using a guitar with effects chain going into the S8. Waiting for a mic cable so I can check out the vocoder. It’s a nicely featured synth.
Old 14th December 2022 | Show parent
  #10197
Lives for gear
 
🎧 5 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by NewIgnis ➡️
The idea is good, but the shown toolset is too limited. It will work well with continuous faders, but not for selectors. Imagine the source is a selector with options for 5 waveforms, and you want to use it to control a destination with only 4 waveforms. Chances are the translation will not always happen 1-to-1.
However: doesn’t the variation knobs (endless encoders) send midi as well? Guess you could use those to select oscillators, filter types etc if the regular selector knobs don’t match?
Old 15th December 2022 | Show parent
  #10198
Lives for gear
 
🎧 10 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by NewIgnis ➡️
The idea is good, but the shown toolset is too limited. It will work well with continuous faders, but not for selectors. Imagine the source is a selector with options for 5 waveforms, and you want to use it to control a destination with only 4 waveforms. Chances are the translation will not always happen 1-to-1.
A 5-position selector for waveform, if it sends out MIDI CC, should send a single CC number for "waveform" to be followed by a number, e.g. the numbers 0 through 4 would represent the 5 possible values for that CC, for its 5 waveforms.
Old 15th December 2022 | Show parent
  #10199
Gear Maniac
Quote:
Originally Posted by BillB ➡️
I'm sure you are right, the idea of matching one set of switch positions to a different number of switch positions is inherently a problem.

AFAIK, when I have tried to match a 1-128 controller range to a switched set of parameters, the range simply gets divided evenly by the number of positions. So four switch positions would be 1-32, 33-64, 65-96, 97-128 (or thereabouts) and for five positions would be 1-25, 26-50, 51-75, 76-100, 100-128 (or thereabouts - you can do the maths a bit more carefully).

In reality, I think the first number that crosses the threshold range is sent (1, 32, 65, 97 or 1, 26, 51, 76, 100) but anything in the switch range will be accepted at the receiving end. So the first two sent numbers of the five position switch (1,26) would both register as position one (1-32) of the four position switch... and the four position switch would not send the required CC (>100) to activate the last 5-position range....

Urgh - I think... long time since I played with these numbers. The MIDI spec-sheets of the more clearly specified (usually older) MIDI gear sets all this out. Agreed, it's never perfect. It looks like the Blue Cat Remote Control can set input-output scaling which would help in some cases.
In theory that should be the case. I reverse engineer MIDI specs a lot myself, and unfortunately that rule of thumb is not followed with all synths. A lot of (allowed) creativity has been applied to using CC’s (or using NRPN instead). I have tried the System 8 for that purpose. I’d say if you only want to control a limited amount of sound sources, you ‘ll be at ease with the Sys-8, because you can memorize the exceptions. But for a large amount that is impractical.
Old 23rd December 2022 | Show parent
  #10200
Lives for gear
 
dirtROBOT's Avatar
 
🎧 5 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by Synthi ➡️
If you buy a lifetime license do you need internet connection for using you plug-ins???
I believe you have to logon every month.
📝 Reply

Similar Threads

Thread / Thread Starter Replies / Views Last Post
replies: 69 views: 26180
Avatar for tvanderbrook
tvanderbrook 3rd July 2013
replies: 4204 views: 415549
Avatar for Darxxxell
Darxxxell 16th September 2017
replies: 6069 views: 535142
Avatar for 234north
234north 4 days ago
Topic:
Post Reply

Welcome to the Gearspace Pro Audio Community!

Registration benefits include:
  • The ability to reply to and create new discussions
  • Access to members-only giveaways & competitions
  • Interact with VIP industry experts in our guest Q&As
  • Access to members-only sub forum discussions
  • Access to members-only Chat Room
  • Get INSTANT ACCESS to the world's best private pro audio Classifieds for only USD $20/year
  • Promote your eBay auctions and Reverb.com listings for free
  • Remove this message!
You need an account to post a reply. Create a username and password below and an account will be created and your post entered.


 
 
Slide to join now Processing…

Forum Jump
Forum Jump