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The actual genesis of this typical snare?
Old 10th February 2016
  #1
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🎧 5 years
The actual genesis of this typical snare?

It may be annoying that I'm asking this question, but I consider myself pretty good at sound design and I've been racking my brain trying to recreate this sound or really find out where it originally comes from.

Yes, it's in a lot of songs and overused sample packs, but I like figuring out where sounds originally come from so I can create things from scratch that I hear in my head. I know there's white noise in here, but is the underlying snare from a drum machine? I've heard this sound a lot of places but can't pinpoint it.

Any guidance? Thanks a bunch.
Attached Files

Typical Snare.wav (369.2 KB, 1540 views)

Old 10th February 2016
  #2
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apolloturner's Avatar
 
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Its actually a hybrid snare. I could write 8 paragraphs or just link you something this dude just threw up recently. Really good way to roll your own drums if you want a really processed snare and are sick to death of vengeance samples. Ableton Tutorial: How to Make Vengeance Snare Drums - Joshua Casper
Old 10th February 2016 | Show parent
  #3
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🎧 5 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by apolloturner ➑️
Its actually a hybrid snare. I could write 8 paragraphs or just link you something this dude just threw up recently. Really good way to roll your own drums if you want a really processed snare and are sick to death of vengeance samples. Ableton Tutorial: How to Make Vengeance Snare Drums - Joshua Casper
Whoa thanks for the info. I've never used Vengeance sounds but I've heard a lot of them and was really curious on how they originally came about their sounds. They had to come from someplace. I know the theories that they're sampled from real songs, but even so, those samples had to come from someplace.

I understand layering but that snare sound underneath has to be from someplace originally.
Old 10th February 2016
  #4
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1 Review written
🎧 5 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by Esemjayes ➑️
It may be annoying that I'm asking this question, but I consider myself pretty good at sound design and I've been racking my brain trying to recreate this sound or really find out where it originally comes from.

Yes, it's in a lot of songs and overused sample packs, but I like figuring out where sounds originally come from so I can create things from scratch that I hear in my head. I know there's white noise in here, but is the underlying snare from a drum machine? I've heard this sound a lot of places but can't pinpoint it.

Any guidance? Thanks a bunch.
Out of curiosity I tried to reproduce this one using only easy free plugins - simple noise gen (a bit EQed) shaped with volume curve and sine wave from reasynth (it's a standard primitive synth bundled with Reaper). The whole sound I processed with some EQ, parallel compressor, clipper and a saturator. Looks like I'm close to the original - the first sound is mine the second is yours

---
I mean close enough for five minutes fun of course
Attached Files

Typical Snare 2.wav (1.26 MB, 1262 views)

Old 10th February 2016 | Show parent
  #5
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🎧 5 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by besairedt ➑️
Out of curiosity I tried to reproduce this one using only easy free plugins - simple noise gen (a bit EQed) shaped with volume curve and sine wave from reasynth (it's a standard primitive synth bundled with Reaper). The whole sound I processed with some EQ, parallel compressor, clipper and a saturator. Looks like I'm close to the original - the first sound is mine the second is yours

---
I mean close enough for five minutes fun of course
Hey man. Not bad! I did something similar too but I feel like, with the original snare, the initial transient is from an actual snare sound or drum machine if that makes sense? It sounds cohesive or something, rather than one sound layered with white noise. What do you think?
Old 10th February 2016
  #6
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In your sound the original sine probably was not a pure sine but involved some modulation or detuned unison or chorus or alike. And the transient has a nice gritty saturation (feels like clipping, maybe a bit of layered bit crushing) But it def comes from sine+noise+mod+sat. Maybe it's a processed 909 snare btw
Old 10th February 2016 | Show parent
  #7
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🎧 5 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by besairedt ➑️
In your sound the original sine probably was not a pure sine but involved some modulation or detuned unison or chorus or alike. And the transient has a nice gritty saturation (feels like clipping, maybe a bit of layered bit crushing) But it def comes from sine+noise+mod+sat. Maybe it's a processed 909 snare btw
Yup. I'm thinking its from a processed 909 snare as well.
Old 10th February 2016 | Show parent
  #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Esemjayes ➑️
Yup. I'm thinking its from a processed 909 snare as well.
Just listened some 909 samples in my lib and they def share the basic sound - this nice tone that feels like more than just a sine.
Old 10th February 2016 | Show parent
  #9
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🎧 5 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by besairedt ➑️
Just listened some 909 samples in my lib and they def share the basic sound - this nice tone that feels like more than just a sine.
Exactly. It sounds too cohesive to me, if that makes any sense, to be just like a distorted sine wave with white noise.
Old 10th February 2016
  #10
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🎧 5 years
Maybe a tom?
Old 10th February 2016
  #11
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Sclr's Avatar
 
🎧 5 years
Could be. 606 snares have that kinda tom sound too but i dont think thats the original snare.
Old 10th February 2016 | Show parent
  #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Esemjayes ➑️
Maybe a tom?
I think 909's tom is actually the same as 909's snare, just lower pitched, without noise and differently enveloped. The wave sounds (and looks) pretty similar
Old 10th February 2016 | Show parent
  #13
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🎧 5 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by besairedt ➑️
I think 909's tom is actually the same as 909's snare, just lower pitched, without noise and differently enveloped. The wave sounds (and looks) pretty similar
Ohhh. Well wouldn't cha know.
Old 10th February 2016 | Show parent
  #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Esemjayes ➑️
Ohhh. Well wouldn't cha know.
But still.. Assuming that this snare was originally coming from samples (not a real device) it might be a pitched up tom (as long as we know it's almost impossible to find the 909 snare sample without the noise) Or is it already too esoteric?
Probably some bedroom EDM producer just picked up the 909 snare and piled up a bunch of cracked plugins until he got this by a lucky coincidence. And we're calling for a scientific assembly

But this is a beauty of being a nerd! We do it cause we can

Last edited by besairedt; 10th February 2016 at 08:44 AM.. Reason: deep thought crossed my mind
Old 10th February 2016 | Show parent
  #15
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🎧 5 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by besairedt ➑️
But still.. Assuming that this snare was originally coming from samples (not a real device) it might be a pitched up tom (as long as we know it's almost impossible to find the 909 snare sample without the noise) Or is it already too esoteric?
Probably some bedroom EDM producer just picked up the 909 snare and piled up a bunch of cracked plugins until he got this by a lucky coincidence. And we're calling for a scientific assembly

But this is a beauty of being a nerd! We do it cause we can
Haha I don't know. You can pile stuff together but if you don't know what you're doing it starts to sound bad or like a bunch of noise. It's def compressed to hell though.
Old 10th February 2016
  #16
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Anyway it looks like we're tryin to reinvent the wheel. If it looks like a 909, if it feels like 909 why shouldn't it be just a processed 909? Somebody found the sweet spot
Old 10th February 2016 | Show parent
  #17
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🎧 5 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by besairedt ➑️
Anyway it looks like we're tryin to reinvent the wheel. If it looks like a 909, if it feels like 909 why shouldn't it be just a processed 909? Somebody found the sweet spot
I'm messing around with a 909 sample and it's not looking good.
Old 10th February 2016
  #18
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🎧 10 years
Sounds like a basic analog drum sound from a Twin-T oscillator of some sort. Many analog synths could pull off a similar sound. There are plugin emulations that can do a fairly good job, because it's a rather simple sound.
Old 10th February 2016
  #19
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Here is a random example of a software plugin that can do sounds like this:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AmwVtfMn3gQ

The advantage of a synth or software synth is that you can tweak it to taste ... samples often have dirt and noise (which might be musical ...) but if you generate the pure tone yourself you can then dirty it up to taste ...
Old 10th February 2016 | Show parent
  #20
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🎧 5 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kiwi ➑️
Sounds like a basic analog drum sound from a Twin-T oscillator of some sort. Many analog synths could pull off a similar sound. There are plugin emulations that can do a fairly good job, because it's a rather simple sound.
Yea I'm starting to think it's from some kind of synth or even a soft synth. Also, that link you posted, don't the sounds kind of sound like vintage drum machines?
Old 10th February 2016 | Show parent
  #21
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monomer's Avatar
 
🎧 10 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by apolloturner ➑️
Its actually a hybrid snare. I could write 8 paragraphs or just link you something this dude just threw up recently. Really good way to roll your own drums if you want a really processed snare and are sick to death of vengeance samples. Ableton Tutorial: How to Make Vengeance Snare Drums - Joshua Casper
What do you mean by hybrid and samples?
I can make this on a modular synth no problem.
It's basically 3 components. White noise attack, body of two sine oscillators and a pink-ish noise for the decay.
See? not even a whole paragraph
Old 10th February 2016 | Show parent
  #22
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monomer's Avatar
 
🎧 10 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by Esemjayes ➑️
Exactly. It sounds too cohesive to me, if that makes any sense, to be just like a distorted sine wave with white noise.
A large part of that cohesion is about prosessing the sound as a whole. Compression and distortion mostly.
Old 10th February 2016 | Show parent
  #23
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🎧 5 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by monomer ➑️
A large part of that cohesion is about prosessing the sound as a whole. Compression and distortion mostly.
I def get the compression part. Doesn't sound like too much distortion though. Maybe?
Old 10th February 2016 | Show parent
  #24
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Esemjayes ➑️
I def get the compression part. Doesn't sound like too much distortion though. Maybe?
( i think i misunderstood your previous post )
I was just noting that a little overdirve/distortion goes a long way in giving a set of sounds some cohesion. It also works with whole mixes and stuff.

In this particular sound (which i don't find very cohesive overall) only the '909' part seems to be distorted.

Last edited by monomer; 10th February 2016 at 01:08 PM..
Old 10th February 2016 | Show parent
  #25
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🎧 5 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by monomer ➑️
( i think i misunderstood your previous post )
I was just noting that a dittle overdirve/distortion goed a long way in giving a set of sounds some cohesion. It also works with whole mixes and stuff.

In this particular sound (which i don't find very cohesive overall) only the '909' part seems to be distorted.
I'm thinking maybe trying this on a Moog or something.
Old 10th February 2016 | Show parent
  #26
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🎧 5 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by besairedt ➑️
I think 909's tom is actually the same as 909's snare, just lower pitched, without noise and differently enveloped. The wave sounds (and looks) pretty similar
Actually iirc the snare has two oscillators and each tom has three.
Old 10th February 2016
  #27
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Esemjayes ➑️
Any guidance? Thanks a bunch.
sounds like a rimshot with a SPX90, or some such as the verb, to me.
Old 10th February 2016 | Show parent
  #28
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kyrpa ➑️
Actually iirc the snare has two oscillators and each tom has three.
Oh didn't know, thanks for information. For my excuse I've never used a real beast, but I have a huge collection of 909/808 samples differently pitched and tweak from and sampled to an old 12bit yamaha sampler (and then ripped to wavs). this is the basement for my knowledge of 909 world - waveforms and ears
Old 10th February 2016 | Show parent
  #29
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🎧 5 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by Muser ➑️
sounds like a rimshot with a SPX90, or some such as the verb, to me.
You think it's a rimshot eh? I don't know. Sounds like a synth/analog sine wave or something with white noise.
Old 10th February 2016 | Show parent
  #30
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Quote:
Originally Posted by monomer ➑️
What do you mean by hybrid and samples?
I can make this on a modular synth no problem.
It's basically 3 components. White noise attack, body of two sine oscillators and a pink-ish noise for the decay.
See? not even a whole paragraph
Oh I stand corrected then you are right as you are in every other post. Sorry about that. You can create it with modular. I am so very sorry about that. On a side note, there is no way that was made with modular. Post a example and I bet it does not even come close man.
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