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Moog Mother-32 vs Korg ARP Odyssey
Old 6th October 2015
  #31
Lives for gear
 
Psychlist1972's Avatar
 
🎧 10 years
Here's the video for the Korg ARP Odyssey teardown.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4p4NUiKwxpo

Almost identical to the MS-20 mini. My pics of that:
https://www.flickr.com/photos/psychl...57640752065193

Pete
Old 6th October 2015 | Show parent
  #32
Lives for gear
 
🎧 10 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by Madd Anju ➡️

You won't find a 350$ KARP ever. I owned many synths, vintage or recent and this one will never ever leave me.

The sound is amazing.The built quality is superb.
I remember the day i bought it, the same day i tried a prophet 6, a moog sub37 a jupiter 8 and a MFB Dominion. I had the budget to buy any of those (well not the jupiter haha).
I came back home with the Karp, as it was the only one that gave me the chills...

But it's ok, when i read post like this i think we owners of Karp can enjoy it secretly while internet say how its overpriced.
I think you have a tenuous grip on reality if you think these things aren't going to go down in value when Korg does their inevitable price drop. If people wait for another year or two, they are definitely going to be able to snap these up on eBay for $350-400 easy peasy. This isn't some limited, hand made, boutique product that will never be able to meet demand, they are going to mass produce these things until the market is completely saturated.

I'm not trash talking the Karp whatsoever, I'm probably going to buy one in another 18 months when they come way down in price. I think it is a great product, I just don't want to take a $500 bath when the prices on these thing hit the floor. The REALITY is that Korg has been running the same play with their products for the last 20 years.

If you want to spend top dollar to have it now, that is your business.

If you want to save money on an asset that is going to depreciate massively, wait for another year. They will retail for $750 everywhere in 2016.

I'm cheap and have plenty of gear, so I'm going to wait.
Old 6th October 2015 | Show parent
  #33
Lives for gear
 
🎧 10 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by Psychlist1972 ➡️
There's absolutely nothing wrong with that. SMD with pick & place is how pretty much everything (short of kits) is made now. Combine with automated testing and it's far more reliable than the old methods.

There's a myth that through-hole components are somehow "better". They are not.

You can get SMD resistors and caps with tight tolerances just like you can buy cheap through-hole components with very loose tolerances.

It's really only if you are doing tight matching of transistors or RC circuits that through hole has a slight edge, and that is mostly because humans do the matching and soldering of those components.

Pete
The only real difference is that it takes a lot more solder practice to be good enough to swap out SMT components in tight spaces when it comes time to repair boards. Through hole is pretty easy to deal with if you have a solder sucker and a decent iron.

I'm not trash talking SMT, it's just that you have to expect machine placement for a product that is going to eventually wholesale for $350 and still be profitable for Korg.
If you want through-hole products hand assembled in the USA, you are going to pay through the nose for that labor. Not performance, labor.

IOW, if the KARP were marketed as a boutique $1900 retail synth you might have a reason to be butthurt about SMT. As it stands, it's a pretty good deal now, and it will be a super deal when you can get them used for cheap after the price drop.

Like I said before, I am totally cool with a mass market SMT MS20mini that retails for $450 all day and pretty much nails the sound of the vintage version that used to cost 4x as much. I have ZERO problems with cheap mass market analog synths that everyone can afford.

Last edited by Whatupdoe?; 10th February 2016 at 02:09 AM..
Old 6th October 2015 | Show parent
  #34
Gear Guru
 
zerocrossing's Avatar
 
🎧 10 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by mpresev ➡️
Thanks scott.

Is the odyssey good in the bass department? I thought it would be because of the arp2600 connection.
It's not an emulation of the 2600 (obviously) or Odyssey but I do believe the Boomstar comes in an ARP filter option. If it's anything like the ARP filter in my ATC-X it will kick ass. I highly recommend Studio Electronics gear and it includes a lot of modern options the Odyssey does not have.
Old 6th October 2015 | Show parent
  #35
Lives for gear
 
Psychlist1972's Avatar
 
🎧 10 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by Whatupdoe? ➡️
Part of my job is the hand solder SMT components in prototype boards before they get set off to China for mass production. I'm pretty familiar with the difference in quality, which as you said, is basically non-existent. ...
That's a challenging job for sure, although I'm sure you get better with it with practice

I'm fine with the larger packages, but I have a heck of a time hand-soldering resistors and capacitors in SMD. My ideal for hand soldering is surface mount for ICs and other packages with more than 6 pins, and through hole for the rest.

I haven't bought/built an oven yet.

Anyway, I agree with you. PTH cost is about labor, not necessarily about quality.

Pete
Old 6th October 2015 | Show parent
  #36
Lives for gear
 
🎧 5 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by Whatupdoe? ➡️
I think you have a tenuous grip on reality if you think these things aren't going to go down in value when Korg does their inevitable price drop.
man i never said the price will never go down. I'm just saying that you won't ever find a 350$ KARP. In a few years 500$ maybe.. Personally i bought it in tokyo on a deal for about 800$. If for some reason i lost it, i would buy it again, even at a "top dollar 1000$". Im no synth collector, i play them, so if i like a synth and if the price is ok, i just buy it, i'm not waiting months or years to have a discount of 200$.
Old 6th October 2015 | Show parent
  #37
Gear Guru
 
Jamie munro's Avatar
 
🎧 5 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by Psychlist1972 ➡️
There's absolutely nothing wrong with that. SMD with pick & place is how pretty much everything (short of kits) is made now. Combine with automated testing and it's far more reliable than the old methods.

There's a myth that through-hole components are somehow "better". They are not.

You can get SMD resistors and caps with tight tolerances just like you can buy cheap through-hole components with very loose tolerances.

It's really only if you are doing tight matching of transistors or RC circuits that through hole has a slight edge, and that is mostly because humans do the matching and soldering of those components.

Pete
Thank you for saving me the time to say that
Old 6th October 2015
  #38
Lives for gear
 
projectwoofer's Avatar
 
🎧 10 years
I would be really interested on a desktop KARP version...
Old 6th October 2015 | Show parent
  #39
Gear Guru
 
Jamie munro's Avatar
 
🎧 5 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by Madd Anju ➡️
man i never said the price will never go down. I'm just saying that you won't ever find a 350$ KARP. In a few years 500$ maybe.. Personally i bought it in tokyo on a deal for about 800$. If for some reason i lost it, i would buy it again, even at a "top dollar 1000$". Im no synth collector, i play them, so if i like a synth and if the price is ok, i just buy it, i'm not waiting months or years to have a discount of 200$.
Kaaa-boooooooom

Not trying to argue but it seems to be a discussion point so, my take and from an English perspective, obviously you have a different market across the west as does everybody in the east.

The only korg synth I've seen really fall in price is the KK, that thing has bottomed out but now it's a total steal for it's SOUND, it was initially way overpriced which has made this happen. The ms20 mini is still about the same it was last year, £330-350 depending where you look. Hell even the microkorg family are only about £50-70 cheaper than when they were released.

I don't ever see the oddy going as low as being mentioned, the lowest in England is £718 in one shop who have massive buying power, on average it's it's fallen about £9 since it's release and is still going out the door at 730-750 everywhere. In a year a buyer might get a further £35-50 reduction and in 2017 wtf??? You may get another £50 off in a shop, meanwhile I'll be rocking sick ass sync bass all day
Old 6th October 2015
  #40
Lives for gear
 
🎧 10 years
I have no problem with SMT personally, even on mega expensive new mixing "UK" consoles you find that the boards tends to be manufactured with SMT components and shipped back. I think it is mainly psychologically reassuring when you have through hole, proper sized components :D. I think Korg really nailed the MS20 mini so I have no problem trusting them with this. For me it's more of an advantage these days to have lighter instruments that are easier to transport.
Old 7th October 2015
  #41
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Dirtycircuit's Avatar
 
🎧 5 years
On the west coast of America the Karp will be on Craigslist for 500 bucks, that being said it's an amazing just does not have the analog grit of the original sold all my modern just have a kawai k5000s, sh5, oddly mk3 and prophet 5, pain in the arse with a Kenton, especially as I was used waldorfs and virus's. But simplicity gets me more results and I enjoy audio editing 20 min takes, love my rev2 to have midi can't afford it at the moment, planning on some pad machines as well and a prophet 6 was amazing. Spend some more and get a second hand Pro 2 amazing synth.
Old 8th May 2017
  #42
Deleted 7f2cf6c
Guest
Just wanted to bring back this from the grave to say... So much for the $350 karps! Lol..
Old 8th May 2017 | Show parent
  #43
Deleted 46dc28f
Guest
Quote:
Originally Posted by Deleted 7f2cf6c ➡️
Just wanted to bring back this from the grave to say... So much for the $350 karps! Lol..
The desktop module is a sweet deal.
Old 8th May 2017
  #44
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lineofcontrol's Avatar
 
🎧 10 years
Desktop is $800 CAD. Plus 13% tax here in the Great white north.
So thats $660 usd... Prices are still very strong here.
Old 8th May 2017 | Show parent
  #45
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jarlywarly's Avatar
 
🎧 10 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by Deleted 46dc28f ➡️
The desktop module is a sweet deal.
It was in EU until the price went up 100 euro overnight.
You can find cheaper 2nd-hand slimkey versions.
Old 9th May 2017 | Show parent
  #46
Lives for gear
 
🎧 5 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by Deleted 7f2cf6c ➡️
Just wanted to bring back this from the grave to say... So much for the $350 karps! Lol..
I'm seeing them for around $400-$450 all over local and on the net so it's getting closer.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Deleted 46dc28f ➡️
The desktop module is a sweet deal.
See last paragraph

Quote:
Originally Posted by lineofcontrol ➡️
Desktop is $800 CAD. Plus 13% tax here in the Great white north.
So thats $660 usd... Prices are still very strong here.
Used prices seem to be going down here in the USA.

Quote:
Originally Posted by jarlywarly ➡️
You can find cheaper 2nd-hand slimkey versions.
Yep. I bought a 86'r aka slimkey version used a few months back. $400 USD in mint basically unused condition with case. At the time I was seeing prices a little North of that at about $450-$500 plus USD.

The 86'r is only 4 inches longer vertically (not wider, same width) than the desktop version and you get keys which is pretty handy, especially cool for such a tiny synth to begin with. It also does not have the bug that seems to be exclusive to the desktop module. I demo'd the keys on the FS version at NAMM and ran out the next day looking for an 86'r because the key quality is actually better on the 86'r and they sound identical. For what these things go for used it's a no brainer, the 86'r is the best deal out of the three reissue version imho.
Old 9th May 2017 | Show parent
  #47
Deleted 46dc28f
Guest
USA, USA, USA!
Old 26th October 2017 | Show parent
  #48
Gear Head
 
🎧 10 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dirtycircuit ➡️
On the west coast of America the Karp will be on Craigslist for 500 bucks, that being said it's an amazing just does not have the analog grit of the original
It sounds exactly like the original. Or as close as you can get, taking into account no two originals sounded exactly the same either. In fact, I'd argue the opposite, as the Karp has an added analogue Drive Circuit that makes it sound noticeably beefier.
Old 26th October 2017 | Show parent
  #49
Lives for gear
 
Moonwhistle's Avatar
 
🎧 5 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by Eoghan ➡️
It sounds exactly like the original. Or as close as you can get, taking into account no two originals sounded exactly the same either. In fact, I'd argue the opposite, as the Karp has an added analogue Drive Circuit that makes it sound noticeably beefier.
Unless you have put them side by side...

But the Karp sounds great and doesn’t have rough/gunked up sliders.
Old 26th October 2017
  #50
Gear Head
 
🎧 10 years
Sure, I'm sure there are a few minor differences, but put two originals side by side and there'll be minor differences. The main thing for me is the countless musicians and aficionado's who have either owned or still own an original, and insist the Karp is very much an Arp Odessey.

The same was claimed about the MS20 mini, and again it was pointed out that the variance in sound was still within the confines of the natural variance seen between different original models.

I'ts pretty obvious there's a natural tendency for owners of an original vinrage instrument to insist that the cheaper remake doesn't sound quite as good as the original. We'll see it again with Behringer Model D.

In some cases though I've no doubt that the 'differences' in sound could lead to a widespread opinion that the original's sound was 'better', even if that seems entirely subjective, not to mention difficult to measure in any meaningful way

Last edited by Eoghan; 26th October 2017 at 01:57 PM..
Old 26th October 2017
  #51
Lives for gear
 
🎧 15 years
id go with the arp over the 32 like most people. Though i like them together. nice combo. the m32 is very basic so you may not want it alone without some other modules or stuff. the seq is cool though.
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